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Date: 13 Jul 2007 15:59:00
From: bernie
Subject: $180lb coffee
I'm wondering how many here will be ordering?


http://klatchroasting.zoovy.com/product/GREE3?cpg=@CAMPAIGN:3832&cpn=11353133

Bernie




 
Date: 15 Jul 2007 23:04:48
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: $180lb coffee
On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 15:59:00 -0600, bernie <bdigman@zianet.com > wrote:

>I'm wondering how many here will be ordering?
>
>
>http://klatchroasting.zoovy.com/product/GREE3?cpg=@CAMPAIGN:3832&cpn=11353133
>
>Bernie

Plenty, apparently. I was in the San Dimas shop today with friends
from my culinary historians group (we had an Early California pit BBQ
brunch this morning at an historic adobe in Pomona).

The entire Esmeralda Especial display was sold out, as was Heather's
"Championship" espresso blend.

Marshall.


 
Date: 13 Jul 2007 20:45:42
From: Jim
Subject: Re: $180lb coffee
bernie wrote:

Lemme guess. From the gut of a bird that's been eaten by a cat!


  
Date: 19 Jul 2007 17:06:03
From: dcrehr
Subject: Re: $180lb coffee
On Jul 19, 1:22 pm, be...@smithfarms.com wrote:

>
my rational mind, with my limited back ground,
> just can't accept the idea.>

Artistotle had one of the most rational minds in history. He insisted
that the idea of the Earth rotating was impossible. But at least he
applied some logic and reasoning to it instead of arbitrarily saying
"I've believed this for a lifetime and can't accept it." His
reasoning: an arrow shot straight into the air falls directly to
earth. If the Earthy rotates, it should move out from under the arrow
right? As science subsequently has shown, he was wrong. Prof. Marcone
has done a professional job of showing that the existence of Kopi is
an acceptable idea for rational minds.

> >Civets are not cats. And mongooses, though similar in shape, belong to
> >a different family than civets. The L.A. Times article did not assert
> >that a Civet's appetite for chicken had anything to do with its eating
> >of coffee cherries. I don't see the reasoning here.
>
> I know the difference:). IIRC the article said that the civets ate
> wild chickens and they also they ate coffee. I do not have time to
> re-read the article. Maybe I mis-read that part. If I didn't, it
> remains far fetched to me to think something that eats chicken will
> also eat coffee cherries.

I eat chicken and also eat cherries, though not coffee cherries (I
would not be averse to tasting them, though). There are many
omnivorous creatures in the world. Why is it so far fetched that a
creature that would eat chicken would also eat coffee cherries?

For more about the civet and its diet, see this web page (I got this
from an old alt.coffee post)

http://www.lioncrusher.com/animal.asp?animal=109

and this from the University of Michigan:

http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/accounts/information/Paradoxurus_hermaphroditus.html

>
> >Yes, not all the data is in. Still, if Marcone's findings are bogus,
> >someone has gone to an awful lot of trouble to stage the evidence.
>
> $?
>

Ascribing the money motive to anyone with a point of view is always
worth a shot, isn't it?

Before being introduced to the the scientific literature on the
subject I was in the Kopi-Luwak-as-urban-legend camp. Now, to me, it
seems irrational to hold onto that view. But then, I don't have 20
years invested in the belief.

I still thinks the stuff probably tastes horrible, thought. Robusta
from Indonesia? I don't even much like arabica from Indonesia. I'm
much more of a Central/South America/Africa fan.

DR




   
Date: 20 Jul 2007 04:53:54
From: Donn Cave
Subject: Re: $180lb coffee
Quoth dcrehr <dcrehr@hotmail.com >:
...


  
Date: 19 Jul 2007 15:56:59
From: dcrehr
Subject: Re: $180lb coffee
I just Googled this matter within this newsgroup and found that Prof.
Marcone's work has indeed been reported here. Dunno where I was!

His peer-reviewed paper on the subject was accepted by Food Research
International, a Canadian food science journal, in May 2005. He just
sent me a copy (haven't read it yet). Prof. Marcone says he has seen
Civets eating coffee beans. He didn't mention having video though.
(But remember, there are many people who think Neil Armstrong didn't
really land on the moon - look at the some of the "real" videos on
YouTube).

This should reasonably settle the "urban legend" question on the
existence of this coffee.

Of course whether Robusta passing through the digestive tract of ANY
animal is worth drinking is an entirely different question.

DR





  
Date: 19 Jul 2007 06:27:30
From: dcrehr
Subject: Re: $180lb coffee
No insults intended. Here are some thoughts on the rant above:

On Jul 17, 4:52 pm, be...@smithfarms.com wrote:

>
> The story in the Times is written by a person who does stories on
> yucky food. There's a big market for that!

My search of the LA Times site fails to confirm this. The article,
however, says that Massimo Marcone, has written a book on that
subject. He is an adjunct professor at Canada's University of Guelph
(in Ontario). From what I can find in a routine web search, he appears
to be a serious scientist who publishes refereed articles in
professional journals on a regular basis (his latest entitled "Batis
maritima (Saltwort/Beachwort): A nutritious, halophytic, perennial
shrub for cultivation and recovery of other wise unproductive
agricultural land affected by salinity."

> I think I'll send my Professor friend a copy of the latest LA Times
> article to see if he can glean ( no pun intended) any more rational
> information.

There is a lot of info freely available online that adds to the L.A.
Times article. Just Google Massimo Marcone and you'll find it. Yes,
he's gotten a lot of press on the Kopi Luwak story.

Does writing a book for which there is a big demand automatically
negate his credentials? (It didn't hurt Carl Sagan or Stephen
Hawking). Similar reasoning might negate a rant written by someone who
produces a coffee competing with Kopi: Kona. "There's a big market for
that!"

I'd like to see his refereed article on Kopi, but reports of his
initial research here have the ring of rationality, to me at least. I
used to think Kopi Luwak was an urban legend, too, but that doesn't
make me automatically discount any information to the contrary.

>
> I have raised cats and I have raised mongooses and yes, both love
> chicken like the civet cats in the article, but that does not
> translate to either eating coffee cherries which are sweet with hard
> beans in them.

Civets are not cats. And mongooses, though similar in shape, belong to
a different family than civets. The L.A. Times article did not assert
that a Civet's appetite for chicken had anything to do with its eating
of coffee cherries. I don't see the reasoning here.

>
> Sorry for the rant.
>

Yes, not all the data is in. Still, if Marcone's findings are bogus,
someone has gone to an awful lot of trouble to stage the evidence.

Cheers,

DR



   
Date: 19 Jul 2007 10:22:48
From:
Subject: Re: $180lb coffee
On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 06:27:30 -0700, dcrehr <dcrehr@hotmail.com > wrote:

>No insults intended. Here are some thoughts on the rant above:
>
>On Jul 17, 4:52 pm, be...@smithfarms.com wrote:
>
>>
>>
>Does writing a book for which there is a big demand automatically
>negate his credentials? (It didn't hurt Carl Sagan or Stephen
>Hawking). Similar reasoning might negate a rant written by someone who
>produces a coffee competing with Kopi: Kona. "There's a big market for
>that!"
>
I am not competing with Kopi Luwak at all. I am just a farmer who
happens to grow coffee. No competition here. I am not moving to kopi
luwak land.

I remain a super skeptic about Kopi Luwak. For close to 20 years, I
have heard of it and my rational mind, with my limited back ground,
just can't accept the idea.
>I'd like to see his refereed article on Kopi, but reports of his
>initial research here have the ring of rationality, to me at least. I
>used to think Kopi Luwak was an urban legend, too, but that doesn't
>make me automatically discount any information to the contrary.
>
>Civets are not cats. And mongooses, though similar in shape, belong to
>a different family than civets. The L.A. Times article did not assert
>that a Civet's appetite for chicken had anything to do with its eating
>of coffee cherries. I don't see the reasoning here.
I know the difference:). IIRC the article said that the civets ate
wild chickens and they also they ate coffee. I do not have time to
re-read the article. Maybe I mis-read that part. If I didn't, it
remains far fetched to me to think something that eats chicken will
also eat coffee cherries.
>>

>Yes, not all the data is in. Still, if Marcone's findings are bogus,
>someone has gone to an awful lot of trouble to stage the evidence.

$?

aloha,
Cea
roast beans to kona to email
farmers of Pure Kona


  
Date: 17 Jul 2007 13:48:15
From: shane
Subject: Re: $180lb coffee
On Jul 14, 6:45 pm, be...@smithfarms.com wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 16:02:46 -0700, dcrehr <dcr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Speaking of too much, anybody see the informative article about Kopi
> >Luwak in the L.A. Times the other day?
>
> >http://www.latimes.com/search/la-fg-coffee13jul13,1,2436255.story?ctr...
>
> >DR
>
> I am always looking for the truth about kopi luwak, but that link
> needs a log in. I subscribe to 3 newspapers but the LA Times is not
> one of them:(. Anyway you can link to the story page? Only if it is
> allowed.
>
> TIA.
>
> aloha,
> Cea
> roast beans to kona to email
> farmers of Pure Kona

How quickly does 500 to 1,000 pounds of coffee sell?
Do a google search for Kopi Luwak or civet coffee
With the amount of Kopi Luwak for sale on the Internet, IMHO something
does not add up.
I would be willing to wager that 500 to 1,000 TONS of the stuff is
sold every year.
It seems that this news story pops up every six months or so.

I too, am interested to know the truth about Luwak coffee.

Shane



   
Date: 17 Jul 2007 13:52:23
From:
Subject: Re: $180lb coffee
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 13:48:15 -0700, shane <shane.olson@juno.com >
wrote:

>On Jul 14, 6:45 pm, be...@smithfarms.com wrote:

>How quickly does 500 to 1,000 pounds of coffee sell?
>Do a google search for Kopi Luwak or civet coffee
>With the amount of Kopi Luwak for sale on the Internet, IMHO something
>does not add up.
>I would be willing to wager that 500 to 1,000 TONS of the stuff is
>sold every year.
>It seems that this news story pops up every six months or so.
>
>I too, am interested to know the truth about Luwak coffee.
>
>Shane

Shane, I have been skeptical for years. I saw the photo of the civet,
but I have never thought it added up *ever*. I know there are people
like Barry J. who heartily disagree with me:). I used to be the
director of the Maui Humane Society so I know animals pretty well. I
also have a friend who is an Animal Science Professor at the
University of Hawaii and I asked him about the chance of civets eating
coffee cherries or civet-like (qualifier needed?) animals eating
coffee. We all doubt the validity of the kopi Luwak.

The story in the Times is written by a person who does stories on
yucky food. There's a big market for that! Also with the "ever
shrinking" population - jeepers...Show me a video of one eating "only
the tastiest reddest coffee cherries" and I might be more inclined to
believe something.

I think I'll send my Professor friend a copy of the latest LA Times
article to see if he can glean ( no pun intended) any more rational
information.

I have raised cats and I have raised mongooses and yes, both love
chicken like the civet cats in the article, but that does not
translate to either eating coffee cherries which are sweet with hard
beans in them.

Sorry for the rant.

aloha,
Cea
roast beans to kona to email
farmers of Pure Kona


  
Date: 16 Jul 2007 20:09:53
From: cpl593h
Subject: Re: $180lb coffee
Gesha isn't a high yielding bean. The first Gesha plants were exported
because of rust resistance:

"It is not a high-yielding variety; it has often an undesirable type
of bean (long and thin) and generally a liquor of poor quality, but,
because of its resistance to leaf-rust, it has been used for
hybridizations."

http://www.haciendaesmeralda.com/Thegeisha.htm straight from the
horse's mouth.

On Jul 15, 11:16 am, "Danny O'Keefe" <oksongb...@centurytel.net >
wrote:
> I'm not sure I have the story completely right but I think that Gesha is an
> Ethiopian cultivar that they produced for yield. Do we see the Ethiopian
> coffees of this hybrid? I'm guessing like you mention that location, soil
> conditions, etc. at Price's place have made this coffee so unusual. I'd be
> interested to cup the Ethiopian Geshas to compare.
>



  
Date: 16 Jul 2007 16:48:56
From: DavidMLewis
Subject: Re: $180lb coffee
On Jul 14, 4:45 pm, be...@smithfarms.com wrote:
> I am always looking for the truth about kopi luwak, but that link
> needs a log in. I subscribe to 3 newspapers but the LA Times is not
> one of them:(. Anyway you can link to the story page? Only if it is
> allowed.
> Hi Cea,

You have to register, but registration is free and if you use a pop-up
blocker, not onerous to view. I'm sure it's copyrighted, though, and
we couldn't legally post a copy.

Best,
David



  
Date: 15 Jul 2007 12:10:43
From: dcrehr
Subject: Re: $180lb coffee
Check this web page posted on Hacienda La Esmeralda's website:

http://www.haciendaesmeralda.com/Thegeisha.htm

It tells us that Gesha (also called "Geisha" by many) seeds were first
collected from an Ethiopian forest in 1931. (Does this mean it was
originally wild?). Then.... via Kenya and other African countries to
Costa Rica in 1956 and subsequently to Panama. So, apparently, this
is not now available from Ethiopia.

Perhaps Hacienda La Esmeralda should now experiment with.... civet
cats. ;-)

DR


On Jul 15, 11:16 am, "Danny O'Keefe" <oksongb...@centurytel.net >
wrote:
> I'm not sure I have the story completely right but I think that Gesha is an
> Ethiopian cultivar that they produced for yield. Do we see the Ethiopian
> coffees of this hybrid? I'm guessing like you mention that location, soil
> conditions, etc. at Price's place have made this coffee so unusual. I'd be
> interested to cup the Ethiopian Geshas to compare.
>
> Danny O'Keefe
>

> > DR




  
Date: 14 Jul 2007 20:20:11
From: Joe
Subject: Re: $600lb coffee...42% fake~ Look for Butt muscle "striations" on the beans
On Jul 14, 6:45 pm, be...@smithfarms.com wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 16:02:46 -0700, dcrehr <dcr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Speaking of too much, anybody see the informative article about Kopi
> >Luwak in the L.A. Times the other day?
>
> >http://www.latimes.com/search/la-fg-coffee13jul13,1,2436255.story?ctr...
>
> >DR
>
> I am always looking for the truth about kopi luwak, but that link
> needs a log in. I subscribe to 3 newspapers but the LA Times is not
> one of them:(. Anyway you can link to the story page? Only if it is
> allowed.
>
> TIA.
>
> aloha,
> Cea
> roast beans to kona to email
> farmers of Pure Kona

Saturday, July 14, 2007 - Page updated at 02:04 AM


End result: $600-a-pound coffee
By Paul Watson

Los Angeles Times

PREV 1of 2NEXT


BULLIT MARQUEZ / AP

A civet, a relative of the mongoose, climbs a coffee tree to eat ripe
fruit. After roasting, the beans plucked from its droppings draw top
dollar from coffee connoisseurs.



PAUL WATSON / TPN
BANDAR LAMPUNG, Indonesia - To connoisseurs of fine coffee, only one
is good to the last dropping.

Human hands don't harvest the beans that make this rare brew. It's
plucked by the sharp claws and fangs of wild civets, catlike beasts
with weaselly noses that love their coffee fresh.

They move at night, creeping along the limbs of robusta and hybrid
arabusta trees, sniffing out sweet red coffee cherries and selecting
only the tastiest. After chewing off the fruity exterior, they swallow
the hard innards.

In the animals' stomachs, enzymes in the gastric juices massage the
beans, smoothing off the harsh edges that make coffee bitter and
produce caffeine jitters. The greenish-brown beans are separated from
the rest of the dung, and once a thin outer layer is removed, they are
ready for roasting. The result is a delicacy with a markup so steep it
would make a drug dealer weep.

It's called "kopi luwak," from the Indonesian words for coffee and
civet, and by the time it reaches the shelves of fancy foreign food
emporiums, devotees fork out as much as $600 for a pound - if they can
even find that much. The British royal family is said to enjoy sipping
it. A single cup can sell for $30 at a five-star hotel in Hong Kong.

Canadian food scientist Massimo Marcone thought kopi luwak was just an
urban legend. Then he did some lab work.

He found that a civet's digestive system does indeed remove some of
the caffeine, which explains why a cup of kopi luwak doesn't have the
kick that other strong coffees do. The civet's enzymes also reduce
proteins that make coffee bitter.

Marcone is one of the world's leading experts on foods that make most
people go "yuck." He recently wrote a book on the subject. One thing
that really gets his glands salivating is "casu frazigu" cheese, which
is packed with so many live maggots that it's not only disgusting, the
Italian government outlawed it.

Just days before the devastating 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami struck,
Marcone was in Indonesia's Sumatran rain forest, where he collected
about 10 pounds of civet droppings laced with coffee beans. He now
uses his sample as "the gold standard" to rate other kopi luwaks in
his lab at the University of Guelph in Ontario.

"About 42 percent of all the kopi luwaks that are presently on sale
are either adulterated or complete fakes, unfortunately," he said.

Real kopi luwak has a top note of rich, dark chocolate, with secondary
notes that are musty and earthy, the scientist said. An Indonesian
coffee lover described the scent as the smell of moist earth after a
rainfall, with hints of vanilla, that teases the palate for hours
after the cup is empty.

Other coffees, such as Jamaican Blue Mountain, may score better on
official cupping tests that judge qualities such as aroma, taste and
fragrance, Marcone said. But they don't come with quite the exotic
cachet of civet brew.



Local lore says villagers discovered centuries ago that civet
droppings made for a smooth cup of coffee when they were forced to
work on Dutch plantations and hand over everything they picked to
their colonial masters. Civets provided the only coffee the workers
could scrounge for themselves.

Today, the world's only source for genuine, uncut kopi luwak is
Southeast Asian civets, and most still comes from the ones foraging in
Indonesia's coffee plantations.

It takes a pound of their droppings to produce less than 5 ounces of
beans. Roasting reduces the quantity by an additional 20 percent.
Genuine kopi luwak has been difficult to find in the United States for
years, said California coffee importer Tom Kilty, who traveled to
Indonesia from California in 1989 to find a reliable source. A decade
later, Kilty said, coffee coming from a European supplier didn't look
the same, so the company he was working for stopped selling it, even
though it was going for $120 a pound.

"I am still on the lookout," Kilty said from Redwood City, Calif.

Susanto, who like many Indonesians uses only one name, moonlights
producing kopi luwak when he's off duty from a government shrimp
hatchery. He and his relatives have processed more than 440 pounds of
civet dung into kopi luwak in three years.

They roast the beans over wood fires in clay pans as big as woks. With
a log-size pestle in a stone mortar, they have pounded the beans into
dark coffee with the powdery texture of cocoa.

***********************************************
Click-2-Listen
By Paul Watson

LOS ANGELES TIMES


Saturday, July 14, 2007

BANDAR LAMPUNG, Indonesia - To connoisseurs of fine coffee, only one
is good to the last dropping.

Human hands don't harvest the beans that make this rare brew. It's
plucked by the sharp claws and fangs of wild civets, catlike beasts
with bug eyes and weaselly noses that love their coffee fresh.


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They move at night, creeping along the limbs of robusta and hybrid
arabusta trees, sniffing out sweet red coffee cherries and selecting
only the tastiest. After chewing off the fruity exterior, they swallow
the hard innards.

In the civets' stomachs, enzymes in the gastric juices massage the
beans, smoothing off the harsh edges that make coffee bitter and
produce caffeine jitters. The greenish-brown beans are separated from
the rest of the dung, and, once a thin outer layer is removed, they
are ready for roasting.

It's called "kopi luwak," from the Indonesian words for coffee and
civet, and by the time it reaches the shelves of foreign food
emporiums, devotees fork out as much as $600 for a pound - if they can
even find that much. The British royal family is said to enjoy sipping
it. A single cup can sell for $30 at a five-star hotel in Hong Kong.

To anyone satisfied by a regular cup of joe, it might sound like a lot
of hokum. Canadian food scientist Massimo Marcone thought kopi luwak
was just an urban legend. Then he did some lab work.

He found that a civet's digestive system does indeed remove some of
the caffeine, which explains why a cup of kopi luwak doesn't have the
kick that other strong coffees do. The civet's enzymes also reduce
proteins that make coffee bitter.

Like a forensic scientist reading a bullet's markings, Marcone stares
at kopi luwak beans under an electron microscope, searching for
striations that tell him that a civet excreted it. His studies found
that kopi luwak drinkers need to be careful they're not duped.

"About 42 percent of all the 'kopi luwaks' that are presently on sale
are either adulterated or complete fakes," he said.

Real kopi luwak has a top note of rich, dark chocolate, with secondary
notes that are musty and earthy, the scientist said.

Local lore says villagers discovered centuries ago that civet
droppings made for a smooth cup of coffee, when they were forced to
work on Dutch plantations and hand over everything they picked to
their colonial masters. Civets provided the only coffee the workers
could scrounge for themselves.

Most kopi luwak comes from civets foraging in Indonesia's coffee
plantations. That limits production to the cravings, and the digestive
abilities, of a shrinking civet population. It takes a pound of their
droppings to produce less than five ounces of beans.

With just 500 to 1,000 pounds of kopi luwak coming on the global
market each year, demand quickly drives up the price.

The astronomical value of their droppings should be a boon to civets,
but civets are struggling to hold on to their habitat as a growing
human population encroaches.

Susanto, who like many Indonesians uses only one name, moonlights
producing kopi luwak when he's off duty from a government shrimp
hatchery. Susanto said he thinks the best way to guarantee pure kopi
luwak is to farm it. So he captured 17 civets.

They are hand-fed ripe coffee cherries along with grapes and other
fruits, and fresh milk. Despite the pampering, a few died in captivity
while the others chewed their way through the wire and escaped back
into the coffee plantations. Only nine remain with Susanto.

He dreams of raising $60,000 to build a kind of nature preserve for
civets, where they could eat coffee cherries to their hearts' content,
depositing choice, certified kopi luwak in exchange for a nice, safe
place to live.





  
Date: 14 Jul 2007 17:18:28
From: dcrehr
Subject: Re: $180lb coffee
I may be wrong, but I think you can log in to the LA Times site for
free. No subscription required.

Let me know if not, and I'll see what I can do for you.

DR


>http://www.latimes.com/search/la-fg-coffee13jul13,1,2436255.story?ctr...
>
> >DR
>
> I am always looking for the truth about kopi luwak, but that link
> needs a log in. I subscribe to 3 newspapers but the LA Times is not
> one of them:(. Anyway you can link to the story page? Only if it is
> allowed.
>
> TIA.
>
> aloha,
> Cea
> roast beans to kona to email
> farmers of Pure Kona




   
Date: 15 Jul 2007 07:31:48
From:
Subject: Re: $180lb coffee
On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 17:18:28 -0700, dcrehr <dcrehr@hotmail.com > wrote:

>I may be wrong, but I think you can log in to the LA Times site for
>free. No subscription required.
>
>Let me know if not, and I'll see what I can do for you.
>
>DR
>
Thanks Darryl!

aloha,
Cea
roast beans to kona to email
farmers of Pure Kona


 
Date: 13 Jul 2007 22:37:49
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: $180lb coffee
On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 15:59:00 -0600, bernie <bdigman@zianet.com > wrote:

>I'm wondering how many here will be ordering?
>
>
>http://klatchroasting.zoovy.com/product/GREE3?cpg=@CAMPAIGN:3832&cpn=11353133
>
>Bernie

Among the many advantages of living in L.A. are free BoP Esmeralda.
(also free USBC signature drink).

Marshall

-------------------------------------------

FREE ESMERALDA
On Saturday July 14th, 2007 Coffee Klatch will be hosting a public
demonstration and coffee tasting of:

The World Famous Esmeralda Especial

11:00am thru 1:00pm COFFEE KLATCH SAN DIMAS 806 W. Arrow Hwy Ste A San
Dimas, CA 91773 909-599-0452

3:00pm thru 5:00pm COFFEE KLATCH RANCHO CUCAMONGA 8916 Foothill Blvd
Ste C Rancho Cucamonga, CA 91730 909-944-5282

Roast Master Mike Perry will be brewing and serving the record setting
Esmeralda Especial coffee from world famous coffee estate, Hacienda La
Esmeralda in Panama that sold for a record $130 a pound.

Also United States Barista Champion Heather Perry will be
demonstrating and offering tasting of her signature drink that won the
US Championship and that she will serve in Tokyo at the World Barista
Championship July 30th thru August 2nd.



 
Date: 13 Jul 2007 16:15:00
From: bernie
Subject: Re: $180lb coffee
bernie wrote:
> I'm wondering how many here will be ordering?
>
>
> http://klatchroasting.zoovy.com/product/GREE3?cpg=@CAMPAIGN:3832&cpn=11353133
>
>
> Bernie

My mistake. It's only $160 lb.