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Date: 17 Oct 2006 16:57:37
From: JC
Subject: 1 idiot trying to hook up a pid controller.
Here is my problem. I am an idiot when it comes to electronics.
I can build you a pc from sctratch no problem.
Wiring and diagrams and such not a clue.
So I had a fuji pxr3 controler hooked it up to a power cable and it
blew up.
Not wanting repeat the same mistakes again I refer to the more wiser of
you in the group.
I thought you could hook up a regular power cable to a pid and plug it
into the wall and it should power on.
Also I have an ssr. I understand one end of the ssr needs to be wired
to the pid that is all fine. There are 2 wires coming from my heating
element I understand they need to be wired to theother side of the ssr
as well. Can I connect them directly to the ssr? If so how does the ssr
get power from the pid? I know the thermal probe is hooked to the pid
input I am good with that.
Just missing some pieces. Someone please help a moron here trying to
get this right. I ordered a new controller with fuzz logic do I need
the ramp soak features yes no.
The cotroller can be configured reverse action so i do know what that
is about.
Thanks Jason Casale





 
Date: 20 Oct 2006 22:17:11
From: jggall01
Subject: Re: 1 idiot trying to hook up a pid controller.

JC wrote:
> Jim thanks,
> I bought an aubins controller this time
> So I am not sure if the instructions you give will apply to the
> controller I have now.
> I did bump the controller temp up and the light did come on on the
> relay ahh haa
> Not sure if it will turn the heating element on or now I hope so.
> I did wire. The the heating element wires to the ssr output one wire to
> t1 one wire to l1
> Does this sound right thanks jason
>

That is good news.

Terminals on Auber will be numbered differently, but the idea is the
same.

If you are getting the LED to illuminate as it should, then the odds
are pretty good that the SSR is going to switch the heating element for
you.

But if it is still not working, there are a couple of additional checks
you can do on the SSR with a multimeter - keeping in mind that you are
dealing with line voltage that will at best give you a very nasty
shock, or at worst pay off the mortgage.

At least one of the AC terminals should always be at 115V (measured
relative to neutral). If neither is at 115V, or thereabouts, then you
are not getting power to the heating circuit for some reason that is
unrelated to the PID.

When the SSR is closed (LED on), the AC voltage across terminals L1 and
T1 should be more than zero, but no more than 1.6V. If you are getting
zero voltage drop across the terminals when the LED is on, then there
is no current flowing, suggesting a problem downstream in the heater
circuit.

Jim
www.pidkits.com



 
Date: 20 Oct 2006 22:01:08
From: JC
Subject: Re: 1 idiot trying to hook up a pid controller.
Okay Jim here is what I have so far.
I bumped the temp on the controller higher that the read temp from the
probe.
The led lit up on the ssr remained there. The temp never went up on the
probe boiler reamins cool to the touch.
So the load part is not working.
Wondering what to do thanks jason

JC wrote:
> Jim thanks,
> I bought an aubins controller this time
> So I am not sure if the instructions you give will apply to the
> controller I have now.
> I did bump the controller temp up and the light did come on on the
> relay ahh haa
> Not sure if it will turn the heating element on or now I hope so.
> I did wire. The the heating element wires to the ssr output one wire to
> t1 one wire to l1
> Does this sound right thanks jason
>
> jggall01 wrote:
> > JC wrote:
> > > Thanks to the group for the help.
> > > I am on my way but missing something.
> > > I am extemley appreciative of everyone's comments and assistance.
> > > I believe i have taken all the required precautions for safety and I am
> > > following Jim's
> > > exact order for hookin everything up.
> > > I got a new pid connected it to power same cable it powered on and did
> > > not blow up this time so that is good. I connected the omega probe
> > > powered the pid it displayed the correct tempature. On to the next step
> > > I took my 16 gauge wire and wired it to the pid ssr dc output + - To
> > > the A1+ A2- on the ssr. I then plugged the pid into power again and the
> > > ssr led did not lite up so I am assume for whatever reason it is not
> > > powering on.
> > > I then connected the 2 plain black wires coming directly out of the
> > > heating element to the the T1 L1 side of the ssr. Powered on the pid
> > > again and no led light on the ssr.
> > > Any Ideas. Thanks Jason
> >
> > Well, a non-fried PID upon power-up is a good start!
> >
> > If you have a multimeter, check the DC voltage across terminals 5 and 4
> > of the Fuji PXR3 (5 is the positive side). Should be at least 5V.
> > Drop down to *** if you are seeing 5V or more.
> >
> > If you are not getting 5V or more here then check to see if lamp C1 on
> > the front of the PXR3 is illuminated. If C1 is illuminated, yet no
> > voltage across 5 and 4, then there is a problem with the controller,
> > perhaps configuration, perhaps hardware failure.
> >
> > If C1 lamp is not illuminated, then confirm that setpoint (SV) is above
> > the thermocouple reading on the display and that configuration of the
> > controller is correct (I think heating mode is "reverse" action on
> > output 1 for the Fuji).
> >
> > *** If you read 5VDC across output terminals 5 and 4, and if those
> > terminals are correctly wired to A1 and A2 (or whatever the DC
> > terminals are on your SSR), then LED should illuminate regardless of
> > whether line/load terminals on the AC side of the SSR (T1, L1) are
> > energized.
> >
> > Let us know what you find out.
> >
> > Jim
> > www.pidkits.com



 
Date: 20 Oct 2006 21:51:59
From: JC
Subject: Re: 1 idiot trying to hook up a pid controller.
Jim thanks,
I bought an aubins controller this time
So I am not sure if the instructions you give will apply to the
controller I have now.
I did bump the controller temp up and the light did come on on the
relay ahh haa
Not sure if it will turn the heating element on or now I hope so.
I did wire. The the heating element wires to the ssr output one wire to
t1 one wire to l1
Does this sound right thanks jason

jggall01 wrote:
> JC wrote:
> > Thanks to the group for the help.
> > I am on my way but missing something.
> > I am extemley appreciative of everyone's comments and assistance.
> > I believe i have taken all the required precautions for safety and I am
> > following Jim's
> > exact order for hookin everything up.
> > I got a new pid connected it to power same cable it powered on and did
> > not blow up this time so that is good. I connected the omega probe
> > powered the pid it displayed the correct tempature. On to the next step
> > I took my 16 gauge wire and wired it to the pid ssr dc output + - To
> > the A1+ A2- on the ssr. I then plugged the pid into power again and the
> > ssr led did not lite up so I am assume for whatever reason it is not
> > powering on.
> > I then connected the 2 plain black wires coming directly out of the
> > heating element to the the T1 L1 side of the ssr. Powered on the pid
> > again and no led light on the ssr.
> > Any Ideas. Thanks Jason
>
> Well, a non-fried PID upon power-up is a good start!
>
> If you have a multimeter, check the DC voltage across terminals 5 and 4
> of the Fuji PXR3 (5 is the positive side). Should be at least 5V.
> Drop down to *** if you are seeing 5V or more.
>
> If you are not getting 5V or more here then check to see if lamp C1 on
> the front of the PXR3 is illuminated. If C1 is illuminated, yet no
> voltage across 5 and 4, then there is a problem with the controller,
> perhaps configuration, perhaps hardware failure.
>
> If C1 lamp is not illuminated, then confirm that setpoint (SV) is above
> the thermocouple reading on the display and that configuration of the
> controller is correct (I think heating mode is "reverse" action on
> output 1 for the Fuji).
>
> *** If you read 5VDC across output terminals 5 and 4, and if those
> terminals are correctly wired to A1 and A2 (or whatever the DC
> terminals are on your SSR), then LED should illuminate regardless of
> whether line/load terminals on the AC side of the SSR (T1, L1) are
> energized.
>
> Let us know what you find out.
>
> Jim
> www.pidkits.com



 
Date: 20 Oct 2006 21:48:39
From: jggall01
Subject: Re: 1 idiot trying to hook up a pid controller.
You are using the wiring terminals on the bottom side of the
controller, right?

Jim
www.pidkits.com



 
Date: 20 Oct 2006 21:37:21
From: jggall01
Subject: Re: 1 idiot trying to hook up a pid controller.

JC wrote:
> Thanks to the group for the help.
> I am on my way but missing something.
> I am extemley appreciative of everyone's comments and assistance.
> I believe i have taken all the required precautions for safety and I am
> following Jim's
> exact order for hookin everything up.
> I got a new pid connected it to power same cable it powered on and did
> not blow up this time so that is good. I connected the omega probe
> powered the pid it displayed the correct tempature. On to the next step
> I took my 16 gauge wire and wired it to the pid ssr dc output + - To
> the A1+ A2- on the ssr. I then plugged the pid into power again and the
> ssr led did not lite up so I am assume for whatever reason it is not
> powering on.
> I then connected the 2 plain black wires coming directly out of the
> heating element to the the T1 L1 side of the ssr. Powered on the pid
> again and no led light on the ssr.
> Any Ideas. Thanks Jason

Well, a non-fried PID upon power-up is a good start!

If you have a multimeter, check the DC voltage across terminals 5 and 4
of the Fuji PXR3 (5 is the positive side). Should be at least 5V.
Drop down to *** if you are seeing 5V or more.

If you are not getting 5V or more here then check to see if lamp C1 on
the front of the PXR3 is illuminated. If C1 is illuminated, yet no
voltage across 5 and 4, then there is a problem with the controller,
perhaps configuration, perhaps hardware failure.

If C1 lamp is not illuminated, then confirm that setpoint (SV) is above
the thermocouple reading on the display and that configuration of the
controller is correct (I think heating mode is "reverse" action on
output 1 for the Fuji).

*** If you read 5VDC across output terminals 5 and 4, and if those
terminals are correctly wired to A1 and A2 (or whatever the DC
terminals are on your SSR), then LED should illuminate regardless of
whether line/load terminals on the AC side of the SSR (T1, L1) are
energized.

Let us know what you find out.

Jim
www.pidkits.com



 
Date: 20 Oct 2006 20:41:22
From: JC
Subject: Re: 1 idiot trying to hook up a pid controller.
Thanks to the group for the help.
I am on my way but missing something.
I am extemley appreciative of everyone's comments and assistance.
I believe i have taken all the required precautions for safety and I am
following Jim's
exact order for hookin everything up.
I got a new pid connected it to power same cable it powered on and did
not blow up this time so that is good. I connected the omega probe
powered the pid it displayed the correct tempature. On to the next step
I took my 16 gauge wire and wired it to the pid ssr dc output + - To
the A1+ A2- on the ssr. I then plugged the pid into power again and the
ssr led did not lite up so I am assume for whatever reason it is not
powering on.
I then connected the 2 plain black wires coming directly out of the
heating element to the the T1 L1 side of the ssr. Powered on the pid
again and no led light on the ssr.
Any Ideas. Thanks Jason



  
Date: 21 Oct 2006 11:54:35
From: Eric Svendson
Subject: Re: 1 idiot trying to hook up a pid controller.
JC -
You said:

"I then connected the 2 plain black wires coming directly out of the heating
element to the the T1 L1 side of the ssr. Powered on the pid again and no
led light on the ssr. Any Ideas. Thanks Jason"

This does nothing and, in fact, would have blown your SSR and opened the
circuit breaker (hopefully) if your pstat were still operative and/or hooked
up.

With the machine and PID unplugged, reconnect the wires to the heater. At
this point there should be nothing connected to the load side of the SSR
(terminals L1, T1).

Set the Auber PID up properly following its instruction manual. There
should have been two wires going to the old pstat. Assumming this is
correct, connect one of these wires to L1 and the other to T1 on the SSR.
If you need to extend the wires, use the same gage wire or larger.

Plug the PID in with the machine still unplugged. The LED on the SSR should
be constantly lit. Plug the machine in and turn on. Heating element should
power up. Set Sv on the Auber PID to desired value.

Eric S.

"JC" <jason_casale@fastmail.fm > wrote in message
news:1161402082.307753.326340@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Thanks to the group for the help.
> I am on my way but missing something.
> I am extemley appreciative of everyone's comments and assistance.
> I believe i have taken all the required precautions for safety and I am
> following Jim's
> exact order for hookin everything up.
> I got a new pid connected it to power same cable it powered on and did
> not blow up this time so that is good. I connected the omega probe
> powered the pid it displayed the correct tempature. On to the next step
> I took my 16 gauge wire and wired it to the pid ssr dc output + - To
> the A1+ A2- on the ssr. I then plugged the pid into power again and the
> ssr led did not lite up so I am assume for whatever reason it is not
> powering on.
> I then connected the 2 plain black wires coming directly out of the
> heating element to the the T1 L1 side of the ssr. Powered on the pid
> again and no led light on the ssr.
> Any Ideas. Thanks Jason
>




  
Date: 21 Oct 2006 02:20:43
From: jim schulman
Subject: Re: 1 idiot trying to hook up a pid controller.
On 20 Oct 2006 20:41:22 -0700, "JC" <jason_casale@fastmail.fm > wrote:

>Any Ideas. Thanks Jason

Have you programmed the PID to turn on the heat? If the PID isn't
calling for heat, it won't turn on the heat.

Once you have the PID powered up, the TC wired correctly, and the low
voltage side of the SSR running, you should start entering the
programming of th PID, consult your manual and swich it on/off
manually via the keyboard to check that everything works.


 
Date: 19 Oct 2006 05:33:37
From: Erik Groomer
Subject: Re: 1 idiot trying to hook up a pid controller.

Jack Denver wrote:

> "Burning" curiousity is perhaps more than you meant to say.

Touche'



 
Date: 18 Oct 2006 12:48:45
From: Erik Groomer
Subject: Re: 1 idiot trying to hook up a pid controller.

"Jack Denver wrote:
> There seems to be an outbreak this week of people messing with electrical
> stuff who shouldn't be. If you don't know what wire goes to what and the
> difference between and low voltage and high voltage, etc. don't mess with
> this stuff - you could really hurt yourself, start a fire, etc. If you mess
> with your plumbing usually the worst case is you get a water leak, but this
> stuff can kill you in a flash. Recognize your limitations and get help (in
> person help, not the alt.coffee kind) when you are in over your head."

Ok, perhaps that is true. But anyone with burning curiosity won't be
put off by this sort of warning. Why not give some advice and help the
guy out?

I usually tell the difference between high and low voltage by whether
or not I can hear the corona discharge. That doesn't matter. It isn't
the voltage that kills. But of course everyone here knows that.

JC, it is true that you should be careful and take the necessary
precautions. Jim S. has given you pearls.



  
Date: 18 Oct 2006 16:36:43
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: 1 idiot trying to hook up a pid controller.
I don't say this to be mean but because I don't want people to end up
hurting themselves. I've been more than willing to share my knowledge in the
past, but when I get the vibe that someone is venturing in over their heads
I urge to turn back.

"Burning" curiousity is perhaps more than you meant to say.


"Erik Groomer" <ViridianCoffee@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1161200925.865371.278160@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> Ok, perhaps that is true. But anyone with burning curiosity won't be
> put off by this sort of warning. Why not give some advice and help the
> guy out?
>
> I usually tell the difference between high and low voltage by whether
> or not I can hear the corona discharge. That doesn't matter. It isn't
> the voltage that kills. But of course everyone here knows that.
>
> JC, it is true that you should be careful and take the necessary
> precautions. Jim S. has given you pearls.
>




 
Date: 18 Oct 2006 12:42:44
From: Erik Groomer
Subject: Re: 1 idiot trying to hook up a pid controller.

jim schulman wrote:

> Nice loud explosive sparkling and scorched or vaporized wires usually
> mean a complete short, hot to ground or neutral. If that is what
> happened and you did have terminals 8 and 9, you need to remember the
> most basic 2 rules of wiring anything:
>
> 1. Give every wire a very hard tug after attaching it to make sure it
> is well connected and stays put.
>
> 2. Make sure the power is unplugged, physically disconnected, or
> interrupted at the breaker (not just switched off at a wall switch)
> when doing any wiring.
>

I appreciate Jim's approach here: he is willing to help someone to
learn. He is not just waving them off, squelching their desire to know
more and to grow. "you have no business doing this" does not help.
Kudos to Jim for taking the time to help us all out. I think we can
forget that there was a time when none of us knew anything about
electron flow.



 
Date: 17 Oct 2006 19:15:28
From:
Subject: Re: 1 idiot trying to hook up a pid controller.
On 17 Oct 2006 16:57:37 -0700, "JC" <jason_casale@fastmail.fm > wrote:

>Here is my problem. I am an idiot when it comes to electronics.
>I can build you a pc from sctratch no problem.
>Wiring and diagrams and such not a clue.

What you mean is: "I can put together the parts of a PC no problem."
Building one from scratch, well that's a bit of a different story,
innit?









_______________________________________
Please Note: If you find a posting or message from me
offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate.


 
Date: 17 Oct 2006 21:23:36
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: 1 idiot trying to hook up a pid controller.
There seems to be an outbreak this week of people messing with electrical
stuff who shouldn't be. If you don't know what wire goes to what and the
difference between and low voltage and high voltage, etc. don't mess with
this stuff - you could really hurt yourself, start a fire, etc. If you mess
with your plumbing usually the worst case is you get a water leak, but this
stuff can kill you in a flash. Recognize your limitations and get help (in
person help, not the alt.coffee kind) when you are in over your head.


"JC" <jason_casale@fastmail.fm > wrote in message
news:1161129457.351355.153850@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Here is my problem. I am an idiot when it comes to electronics.
> I can build you a pc from sctratch no problem.
> Wiring and diagrams and such not a clue.
> So I had a fuji pxr3 controler hooked it up to a power cable and it
> blew up.
> Not wanting repeat the same mistakes again I refer to the more wiser of
> you in the group.
> I thought you could hook up a regular power cable to a pid and plug it
> into the wall and it should power on.
> Also I have an ssr. I understand one end of the ssr needs to be wired
> to the pid that is all fine. There are 2 wires coming from my heating
> element I understand they need to be wired to theother side of the ssr
> as well. Can I connect them directly to the ssr? If so how does the ssr
> get power from the pid? I know the thermal probe is hooked to the pid
> input I am good with that.
> Just missing some pieces. Someone please help a moron here trying to
> get this right. I ordered a new controller with fuzz logic do I need
> the ramp soak features yes no.
> The cotroller can be configured reverse action so i do know what that
> is about.
> Thanks Jason Casale
>




  
Date: 18 Oct 2006 18:04:24
From: Paul Monaghan
Subject: Re: 1 idiot trying to hook up a pid controller.
On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 21:23:36 -0400, "Jack Denver"
<nunuvyer@netscape.net > wrote:

> If you mess
>with your plumbing usually the worst case is you get a water leak, but this
>stuff can kill you in a flash.


I know a guy who managed to "unground" his whole [old] house by
replacing some copper pipe with PVC...




 
Date: 17 Oct 2006 18:11:35
From: JC
Subject: Re: 1 idiot trying to hook up a pid controller.
Thanks Jim I did not even get that far.
I hooked an external power cable to the controller to verify it powered
on at the appropriate power terminals I believe 8 and 9 on he fuji and
boom.
That was where I was going to start as you reccomended.
my ssr is a rs1a23d40 standard zero switching ssr I believe
Solid-state relay (230v/40A out, DC in, zero switching)
I think I should be okay where would one perporate to get a safe power
cable for a pid?
there are four post on the ssr relay A1+ A2- is that the side where the
heating element needs to connect? The other side of the ssr is lables
L1 T1 That would logically seem to be the side that connects to the dc
ssr out on the controller do I have this correct.



jim schulman wrote:Solid-state relay
> On 17 Oct 2006 16:57:37 -0700, "JC" <jason_casale@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>
> >So I had a fuji pxr3 controler hooked it up to a power cable and it
> >blew up.
>
> Wow, you always see it in movies; I didn't know it could happen for
> real ;-)
>
> You probabluy connected one of the 10 volt DC outputs fronm the PID to
> the SSR to the AC power and smoked the op amp.
>
> The SSR is a four terminal device. The two AC terminals (switching
> side) are connected like a light switch, interrupting the hot wire to
> the heater you're controlling:
>
> AC Hot SSR1 SSR2 Heater hot
> o-----------------o o------------------o
>
>
> The other two terminals of the SSR go to the approipriate terminals on
> the Fuji -- do not connect them to the AC.
>
> Finally, the PID is powered by an AC hot and common to the power in
> terminals.
>
> Hook the stuff up in the following order:
> 1. Power to the PID and check that it powers up
> 2. TC to the PID and check you get a correct temperature reading
> 3. SSR control side to the PID and check the SSR is switching
> 4. Finally hook the heater to the power side of the SSR.



  
Date: 17 Oct 2006 22:16:31
From: Eric Svendson
Subject: Re: 1 idiot trying to hook up a pid controller.
JC -

No, you do not have it correct.

The terminals on the SSR that are polarity labeled get connected to the PID
controller in a "polarity correct" manner.

As the switching side of the SSR will be carrying the same amperage as your
old pstat and heating element, the wire gage size should be at least equal
to what exists on the machine at present.

Eric S.

"JC" <jason_casale@fastmail.fm > wrote in message
news:1161133895.290967.222310@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Thanks Jim I did not even get that far.
> I hooked an external power cable to the controller to verify it powered
> on at the appropriate power terminals I believe 8 and 9 on he fuji and
> boom.
> That was where I was going to start as you reccomended.
> my ssr is a rs1a23d40 standard zero switching ssr I believe
> Solid-state relay (230v/40A out, DC in, zero switching)
> I think I should be okay where would one perporate to get a safe power
> cable for a pid?
> there are four post on the ssr relay A1+ A2- is that the side where the
> heating element needs to connect? The other side of the ssr is lables
> L1 T1 That would logically seem to be the side that connects to the dc
> ssr out on the controller do I have this correct.
>
>
>
> jim schulman wrote:Solid-state relay
>> On 17 Oct 2006 16:57:37 -0700, "JC" <jason_casale@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>>
>> >So I had a fuji pxr3 controler hooked it up to a power cable and it
>> >blew up.
>>
>> Wow, you always see it in movies; I didn't know it could happen for
>> real ;-)
>>
>> You probabluy connected one of the 10 volt DC outputs fronm the PID to
>> the SSR to the AC power and smoked the op amp.
>>
>> The SSR is a four terminal device. The two AC terminals (switching
>> side) are connected like a light switch, interrupting the hot wire to
>> the heater you're controlling:
>>
>> AC Hot SSR1 SSR2 Heater hot
>> o-----------------o o------------------o
>>
>>
>> The other two terminals of the SSR go to the approipriate terminals on
>> the Fuji -- do not connect them to the AC.
>>
>> Finally, the PID is powered by an AC hot and common to the power in
>> terminals.
>>
>> Hook the stuff up in the following order:
>> 1. Power to the PID and check that it powers up
>> 2. TC to the PID and check you get a correct temperature reading
>> 3. SSR control side to the PID and check the SSR is switching
>> 4. Finally hook the heater to the power side of the SSR.
>




  
Date: 17 Oct 2006 21:14:14
From: jim schulman
Subject: Re: 1 idiot trying to hook up a pid controller.
On 17 Oct 2006 18:11:35 -0700, "JC" <jason_casale@fastmail.fm > wrote:

>Thanks Jim I did not even get that far.
>I hooked an external power cable to the controller to verify it powered
>on at the appropriate power terminals I believe 8 and 9 on he fuji and
>boom.

In that case the unit was defective and you should send it back under
warranty (but you could post that this is your story and you're
sticking to it).

Nice loud explosive sparkling and scorched or vaporized wires usually
mean a complete short, hot to ground or neutral. If that is what
happened and you did have terminals 8 and 9, you need to remember the
most basic 2 rules of wiring anything:

1. Give every wire a very hard tug after attaching it to make sure it
is well connected and stays put.

2. Make sure the power is unplugged, physically disconnected, or
interrupted at the breaker (not just switched off at a wall switch)
when doing any wiring.

>there are four post on the ssr relay A1+ A2- is that the side where the
>heating element needs to connect? The other side of the ssr is lables
>L1 T1 That would logically seem to be the side that connects to the dc
>ssr out on the controller do I have this correct.

On the Carlos Gavazzi relays, A1 and A2 are the low voltage side, L1
is the AC line, T1 is the load.


   
Date: 18 Oct 2006 20:15:55
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: 1 idiot trying to hook up a pid controller.
jim schulman <jim_schulman@ameritech.net > wrote in
news:sj2bj2dh8m8rio544fq94jbmh84ed1hil3@4ax.com:

> On 17 Oct 2006 18:11:35 -0700, "JC" <jason_casale@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>
>>Thanks Jim I did not even get that far.
>>I hooked an external power cable to the controller to verify it powered
>>on at the appropriate power terminals I believe 8 and 9 on he fuji and
>>boom.
>
> In that case the unit was defective and you should send it back under
> warranty (but you could post that this is your story and you're
> sticking to it).
>
> Nice loud explosive sparkling and scorched or vaporized wires usually
> mean a complete short, hot to ground or neutral. If that is what
> happened and you did have terminals 8 and 9, you need to remember the
> most basic 2 rules of wiring anything:
>
> 1. Give every wire a very hard tug after attaching it to make sure it
> is well connected and stays put.
>
> 2. Make sure the power is unplugged, physically disconnected, or
> interrupted at the breaker (not just switched off at a wall switch)
> when doing any wiring.
>
>>there are four post on the ssr relay A1+ A2- is that the side where the
>>heating element needs to connect? The other side of the ssr is lables
>>L1 T1 That would logically seem to be the side that connects to the dc
>>ssr out on the controller do I have this correct.
>
> On the Carlos Gavazzi relays, A1 and A2 are the low voltage side, L1
> is the AC line, T1 is the load.
>

It's nice to see someone sharing their knowledge freely. Maybe we can't all
be electrical engineers, but with insight like Jim offers & my trusty
Physics, Wiring & Electronics For Dummy's I can get by nicely.

Robert (duck & cover) Harmon
--
http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
Remove "Z" to reply via email.


 
Date: 17 Oct 2006 17:50:43
From: JC
Subject: Re: 1 idiot trying to hook up a pid controller.
randy thanks again for the advice.
I looked at that kit but it was meant for a sylvia not an astra.
You see I recently took appart my astra put it back together and am
ready for the pid part I have the probe installed where the pressure
stat used to be.
I can wire that to the controller no problems. I am just wanting to
make sure I get the power and ssr wired right this time any other
helpful suggestions would be appreciated.

Randy G. wrote:
> "JC" <jason_casale@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>
> >Here is my problem. I am an idiot when it comes to electronics.
> >I can build you a pc from sctratch no problem.
> >Wiring and diagrams and such not a clue.
> >So I had a fuji pxr3 controler hooked it up to a power cable and it
> >blew up.
> >
> The above puts you in the category of folks who should not be doing
> this sort of work from scratch. My advice- Purchase the MLG PID kit
> (review on my website). It comes with EXCELLENT, step-by-step
> instructions and every wire you need, all color coded and ready to
> hook up.
>
> >Not wanting repeat the same mistakes again I refer to the more wiser of
> >you in the group.
> >
> Well, there you go! ;-)
>
> >I thought you could hook up a regular power cable to a pid and plug it
> >into the wall and it should power on.
> >
> If you hook the wires to the proper connections, and if it is rated
> for 120VAC, sure.
>
>
> Randy "hope you're not grounded" G.
> http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com



 
Date: 17 Oct 2006 19:49:47
From: jim schulman
Subject: Re: 1 idiot trying to hook up a pid controller.
On 17 Oct 2006 16:57:37 -0700, "JC" <jason_casale@fastmail.fm > wrote:

>So I had a fuji pxr3 controler hooked it up to a power cable and it
>blew up.

Wow, you always see it in movies; I didn't know it could happen for
real ;-)

You probabluy connected one of the 10 volt DC outputs fronm the PID to
the SSR to the AC power and smoked the op amp.

The SSR is a four terminal device. The two AC terminals (switching
side) are connected like a light switch, interrupting the hot wire to
the heater you're controlling:

AC Hot SSR1 SSR2 Heater hot
o-----------------o o------------------o


The other two terminals of the SSR go to the approipriate terminals on
the Fuji -- do not connect them to the AC.

Finally, the PID is powered by an AC hot and common to the power in
terminals.

Hook the stuff up in the following order:
1. Power to the PID and check that it powers up
2. TC to the PID and check you get a correct temperature reading
3. SSR control side to the PID and check the SSR is switching
4. Finally hook the heater to the power side of the SSR.


  
Date: 18 Oct 2006 20:31:54
From: Paul Monaghan
Subject: Re: 1 idiot trying to hook up a pid controller.
On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:49:47 -0500, jim schulman
<jim_schulman@ameritech.net > wrote:


>Hook the stuff up in the following order:
>1. Power to the PID and check that it powers up
>2. TC to the PID and check you get a correct temperature reading
>3. SSR control side to the PID and check the SSR is switching
>4. Finally hook the heater to the power side of the SSR.

I seem to recall that some SSRs will not switch unless the "switching"
side is connected at least to power. Does that sound right? If so, I
guess if step 3 fails one might connect power to SSR output before
retrying step three, then finally connect the load?



   
Date: 18 Oct 2006 17:55:26
From: jim schulman
Subject: Re: 1 idiot trying to hook up a pid controller.
On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 20:31:54 GMT, Paul Monaghan
<monaghan@shorelinelegal.com > wrote:

>I seem to recall that some SSRs will not switch unless the "switching"
>side is connected at least to power. Does that sound right? If so, I
>guess if step 3 fails one might connect power to SSR output before
>retrying step three, then finally connect the load?

You can't do multimeter tests on the load side of an ssr, all you can
do is see that it switches a load. Once the control side is hooked up,
you can check that the current to it is switching using a multimeter.
The Gavazzi SSRs have an LED that indicates the control current.


    
Date: 19 Oct 2006 02:53:48
From: Paul Monaghan
Subject: Re: 1 idiot trying to hook up a pid controller.
On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 17:55:26 -0500, jim schulman
<jim_schulman@ameritech.net > wrote:


>You can't do multimeter tests on the load side of an ssr, all you can
>do is see that it switches a load. Once the control side is hooked up,
>you can check that the current to it is switching using a multimeter.
>The Gavazzi SSRs have an LED that indicates the control current.

Without a multimeter refreshing in tenths of a second, how can one
test whether an SSR is switching if the SSR does not have an LED like
the Gavazzi you mentioned?


     
Date: 19 Oct 2006 01:58:29
From: jim schulman
Subject: Re: 1 idiot trying to hook up a pid controller.
On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 02:53:48 GMT, Paul Monaghan
<monaghan@shorelinelegal.com > wrote:

>On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 17:55:26 -0500, jim schulman
><jim_schulman@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
>
>>You can't do multimeter tests on the load side of an ssr, all you can
>>do is see that it switches a load. Once the control side is hooked up,
>>you can check that the current to it is switching using a multimeter.
>>The Gavazzi SSRs have an LED that indicates the control current.
>
>Without a multimeter refreshing in tenths of a second, how can one
>test whether an SSR is switching if the SSR does not have an LED like
>the Gavazzi you mentioned?

You confirm that the low voltage/control side is working by measuring
that. Then hook up the load (or a light bulb etc) and see if it works.
My instructions were just on how to wire the thing step by step and
check the connections. One assumes the actual components are working
(at least until they don't).

That being said, I don't get the same "he's clueless" vibe as some
others from the OP. It sounds like hemay have hooked the PID to the ac
correctly and the unit itself had a short.


      
Date: 19 Oct 2006 19:35:35
From: Paul Monaghan
Subject: Re: 1 idiot trying to hook up a pid controller.
On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 01:58:29 -0500, jim schulman
<jim_schulman@ameritech.net > wrote:

>You confirm that the low voltage/control side is working by measuring
>that. Then hook up the load (or a light bulb etc) and see if it works.
>My instructions were just on how to wire the thing step by step and
>check the connections. One assumes the actual components are working
>(at least until they don't).
>
>That being said, I don't get the same "he's clueless" vibe as some
>others from the OP. It sounds like hemay have hooked the PID to the ac
>correctly and the unit itself had a short.

Thanks Jim.


     
Date: 19 Oct 2006 02:57:35
From: Paul Monaghan
Subject: Re: 1 idiot trying to hook up a pid controller.
On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 02:53:48 GMT, Paul Monaghan
<monaghan@shorelinelegal.com > wrote:

>On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 17:55:26 -0500, jim schulman
><jim_schulman@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
>
>>You can't do multimeter tests on the load side of an ssr, all you can
>>do is see that it switches a load. Once the control side is hooked up,
>>you can check that the current to it is switching using a multimeter.
>>The Gavazzi SSRs have an LED that indicates the control current.
>
>Without a multimeter refreshing in tenths of a second, how can one
>test whether an SSR is switching if the SSR does not have an LED like
>the Gavazzi you mentioned?

I'm sorry, let me elaborate:

Without an LED on the SSR, how could one confirm that the SSR is
switching without having gone through your "step four" first?

Thanks,
Paul


   
Date: 18 Oct 2006 15:46:04
From: Paul Sack
Subject: Re: 1 idiot trying to hook up a pid controller.
Paul Monaghan <monaghan@shorelinelegal.com > writes:

> I seem to recall that some SSRs will not switch unless the "switching"
> side is connected at least to power. Does that sound right? If so, I
> guess if step 3 fails one might connect power to SSR output before
> retrying step three, then finally connect the load?

Right, many relays that switch AC switch on zero-crossings and require
power, or at least more of one than a multimeter provides. Also why
AC-switching relays are usually cheaper.

-Paul


   
Date: 18 Oct 2006 16:46:59
From: St. John Smythe
Subject: Re: 1 idiot trying to hook up a pid controller.
Paul Monaghan wrote:
> I seem to recall that some SSRs will not switch unless the "switching"
> side is connected at least to power. Does that sound right? If so, I
> guess if step 3 fails one might connect power to SSR output before
> retrying step three, then finally connect the load?

The problem is, someone reading this might do just that, and blow up
their SSR as a result.

Remember that the SSR is a switch, and you know what a switch does if
connected between hot and neutral, right? It is necessary for there to
be both power *and* a load, with the switch in series.

While helping people is commendable, I sure share Jack Denver's
reservations about doing it in an online forum.

--
St. John
Perhaps no person can be a poet, or even enjoy poetry without a certain
unsoundness of mind.
-Thomas Macaulay


    
Date: 19 Oct 2006 02:51:57
From: Paul Monaghan
Subject: Re: 1 idiot trying to hook up a pid controller.
On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 16:46:59 -0400, "St. John Smythe"
<sinjen@n4vu.com > wrote:
>
>The problem is, someone reading this might do just that, and blow up
>their SSR as a result.
>
>Remember that the SSR is a switch, and you know what a switch does if
>connected between hot and neutral, right?


Of course. But if the switch is just connected to hot like I
suggested, with nothing (no load, no neutral) connected to the other
side of the switch (SSR output) then I don't see a problem. But I am
no EE and am frequently wrong on my assumptions when it comes to
electricity, so would appreciate very much an explanation of why what
I said is wrong, if in fact it is.

(which I wouldn't doubt, I just would appreciate an explanation.)

Thank you,
Paul



     
Date: 19 Oct 2006 14:22:13
From: St. John Smythe
Subject: Re: 1 idiot trying to hook up a pid controller.
Paul Monaghan wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 16:46:59 -0400, "St. John Smythe"
> <sinjen@n4vu.com> wrote:
>> Remember that the SSR is a switch, and you know what a switch does if
>> connected between hot and neutral, right?
>
> Of course. But if the switch is just connected to hot like I
> suggested, with nothing (no load, no neutral) connected to the other
> side of the switch (SSR output) then I don't see a problem.

Not only no problem, but nothing at all; with only hot connected, there
is no circuit, and the SSR will not be able to be activated. You must
complete the circuit with, as someone mentioned, a light bulb (as the
load) and a wire going to the other SSR terminal on the secondary side.

--
St. John
Liar:
one who tells an unpleasant truth.
-Oliver Herford


      
Date: 19 Oct 2006 19:13:26
From: Paul Monaghan
Subject: Re: 1 idiot trying to hook up a pid controller.
On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 14:22:13 -0400, "St. John Smythe"
<sinjen@n4vu.com > wrote:


>Not only no problem, but nothing at all; with only hot connected, there
>is no circuit, and the SSR will not be able to be activated. You must
>complete the circuit with, as someone mentioned, a light bulb (as the
>load) and a wire going to the other SSR terminal on the secondary side.


Thanks.


 
Date: 17 Oct 2006 17:31:40
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: 1 idiot trying to hook up a pid controller.
"JC" <jason_casale@fastmail.fm > wrote:

>Here is my problem. I am an idiot when it comes to electronics.
>I can build you a pc from sctratch no problem.
>Wiring and diagrams and such not a clue.
>So I had a fuji pxr3 controler hooked it up to a power cable and it
>blew up.
>
The above puts you in the category of folks who should not be doing
this sort of work from scratch. My advice- Purchase the MLG PID kit
(review on my website). It comes with EXCELLENT, step-by-step
instructions and every wire you need, all color coded and ready to
hook up.

>Not wanting repeat the same mistakes again I refer to the more wiser of
>you in the group.
>
Well, there you go! ;-)

>I thought you could hook up a regular power cable to a pid and plug it
>into the wall and it should power on.
>
If you hook the wires to the proper connections, and if it is rated
for 120VAC, sure.


Randy "hope you're not grounded" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com




  
Date: 18 Oct 2006 14:08:34
From: Brent
Subject: Re: 1 idiot trying to hook up a pid controller.
that or contact Dave

>>Here is my problem. I am an idiot when it comes to electronics.
>>I can build you a pc from sctratch no problem.
>>Wiring and diagrams and such not a clue.
>>So I had a fuji pxr3 controler hooked it up to a power cable and it
>>blew up.
>>
> The above puts you in the category of folks who should not be doing
> this sort of work from scratch. My advice- Purchase the MLG PID kit
> (review on my website). It comes with EXCELLENT, step-by-step
> instructions and every wire you need, all color coded and ready to
> hook up.
>
>>Not wanting repeat the same mistakes again I refer to the more wiser of
>>you in the group.
>>
> Well, there you go! ;-)
>
>>I thought you could hook up a regular power cable to a pid and plug it
>>into the wall and it should power on.
>>
> If you hook the wires to the proper connections, and if it is rated
> for 120VAC, sure.
>
>
> Randy "hope you're not grounded" G.
>
>