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Date: 16 Dec 2006 21:43:20
From: Bwisit
Subject: A thank you to alt.coffee
A thank you to all here at alt.coffee. Until yesterday, I've been
using Starbucks beans. Yeah, I thought that it wouldn't be necessary
to get fresh beans anywhere because I would be drinking milk based
drinks anyway. But after being unsatisfied even with all that milk
added to my espresso, I decided to get some fresh beans. Luckily, I
live relatively close to coffee klatch. Over in these neck of the
woods, we measure by time, not by miles travelled, and anything less
than an hour away is close. So I got some fresh roasted beans from
them that were roasted two days before, enough time for the beans to
de-gas. So I grind it up, tamp, load the basket, hit the brew button,
and behold, crema! First time I had that in a while. So I eagerly
wait for my ounce to finish and taste. What's this? I get this
nasty acidic sour taste! Could it be the beans? No way. This is a
reputable place I bought them from. So on to alt.coffee I go and try
to refresh my memory on all that I've read on how to make the right
espresso. I find out that nasty acidic sour taste comes from low brew
temperature. So I use the easy to do method of using a Styrofoam cup
and my milk thermometer and find out my brew temperature at its peak is
only 160 F. Too low. So I go back on here and it's suggested that
if my brew temperature is that low, use the steam button for about 5
seconds to get the water temperature up. So I try that. Grind, tamp,
wait the extra five seconds with the steam button on, turn it off,
brew. I taste, still too sour. So I grind extra beans cuz I know
I'm gonna be using different timing methods. I wait 10 seconds with
the steam button, turn it off, brew, and the sour taste is gone! Now
I'm getting somewhere. I do this again. Same results. Try it for
15 seconds, gets a little bitter. Do more experimenting and I've
found that about 10-12 seconds with the steam button, then brew is just
right. Needless to say, I am very awake, hence this thank you. So I
prepare to make my ultimate capa, fill my basket with 7 grams of
coffee, tamp, lock and load, press the steam button for 11 seconds,
brew, and there it is. I wait what feels like hours for the steam
light to go on, steam my milk, and pour. The gods are with me today
because I even accidentally make an apple. I taste, and it's the
best capa I've made. Sweet from the milk, nothing acidic or bitter
in it. Angels are singing, stars are shining! So to all of you at
alt.coffee, thank you thank you thank you.





 
Date: 18 Dec 2006 13:24:56
From: chardinej
Subject: Re: A thank you to alt.coffee

shall wrote:
> On 16 Dec 2006 21:43:20 -0800, "Bwisit" <mckolit@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >A thank you to all here at alt.coffee. Until yesterday, I've been
> >using Starbucks beans. Yeah, I thought that it wouldn't be necessary
> >to get fresh beans anywhere because I would be drinking milk based
> >drinks anyway. But after being unsatisfied even with all that milk
> >added to my espresso, I decided to get some fresh beans. Luckily, I
> >live relatively close to coffee klatch.
-snip

I used to buy Starbucks beans and in every bag used to notice many
deformed or broken beans in the bottom of the bag. I took this to be an
indication of the poor quality control of their coffee.

Having said this, the bags SBs and others use seem to do a pretty good
job at maintaining coffee freshness well beyond what should be
expected. On the illycafe site they talk about their 3kg professional
tins as good for 3 years! Do they inject Nitrogen? So the question is,
if you replace the Oxygen with Nitrogen or CO2 will roasted coffee last
a lot longer than we think?

John



  
Date: 19 Dec 2006 00:28:22
From: The Other Funk
Subject: Re: A thank you to alt.coffee
Finding the keyboard operational
chardinej entered:

> I used to buy Starbucks beans and in every bag used to notice many
> deformed or broken beans in the bottom of the bag. I took this to be
> an indication of the poor quality control of their coffee.
>
> Having said this, the bags SBs and others use seem to do a pretty good
> job at maintaining coffee freshness well beyond what should be
> expected. On the illycafe site they talk about their 3kg professional
> tins as good for 3 years! Do they inject Nitrogen? So the question is,
> if you replace the Oxygen with Nitrogen or CO2 will roasted coffee
> last a lot longer than we think?
>
> John

It would seem that some coffee suppliers have developed a method to hold
coffee in a statis field that prevents staling. I have not been able to find
any patent on this process so it must be one of those 'I'll tell you but
then I'll have to kill you' secrets.
Using CO2 will not delay staling as far as I know. Air is about 21% oxygen.
CO2 is 66%.
Bob

--
--
Coffee worth staying up for - NY Times
www.moondoggiecoffee.com



   
Date: 27 Dec 2006 21:51:08
From: Steve Ackman
Subject: Re: A thank you to alt.coffee
In <GmGhh.1453$Pq4.1301@trndny08 >, on Tue, 19 Dec 2006 00:28:22 GMT, The
Other Funk wrote:

> It would seem that some coffee suppliers have developed a method to hold
> coffee in a statis field that prevents staling. I have not been able to find
> any patent on this process so it must be one of those 'I'll tell you but
> then I'll have to kill you' secrets.
> Using CO2 will not delay staling as far as I know. Air is about 21% oxygen.
> CO2 is 66%.
> Bob

Air is 21% AVAILABLE oxygen. CO2 is ZERO percent.
Those two oxygen atoms are chemically bound to the
carbon. They're not coming off just because there's
a coffee bean nearby.

CO2 flushing should be every bit as effective as
nitrogen flushing.


 
Date: 17 Dec 2006 17:47:54
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: A thank you to alt.coffee
On 16 Dec 2006 21:43:20 -0800, "Bwisit" <mckolit@yahoo.com > wrote:

>A thank you to all here at alt.coffee. Until yesterday, I've been
>using Starbucks beans. Yeah, I thought that it wouldn't be necessary
>to get fresh beans anywhere because I would be drinking milk based
>drinks anyway. But after being unsatisfied even with all that milk
>added to my espresso, I decided to get some fresh beans. Luckily, I
>live relatively close to coffee klatch.

The Perry's are great coffee people and have been picking up major
kudos from Ken Davids and the better-informed press lately.

shall


 
Date: 17 Dec 2006 09:23:22
From: bernie
Subject: Re: A thank you to alt.coffee
Bwisit wrote:

Angels are singing, stars are shining! So to all of you at
> alt.coffee, thank you thank you thank you.
>

Um, ma'am? I'll have what he's having thank you very much.
Bernie


 
Date: 17 Dec 2006 07:19:01
From: Omniryx@gmail.com
Subject: Re: A thank you to alt.coffee

Randy G. wrote:
> It seems like it has been a while since alt.coffee has had a letter
> such as this...

I wonder how many people have been brought to better coffee through
your own website, Randy, let alone AC and CG--and certainly than HB,
which is a trifle rarified for beginners.

Whether we agree with all your opinions or not, surely everyone here
has to acknowledge the contribution you have made to internet espresso
awareness.

See, I CAN say nice things to people. Call it Christmas spirit.



 
Date: 17 Dec 2006 01:35:41
From: Flasherly
Subject: Re: A thank you to alt.coffee

Bwisit wrote:
So I use the easy to do method of using a Styrofoam cup and my milk
thermometer and find out my brew temperature at its peak is only 160 F.
Too low.

-

Had a look at mine to see what would happen by bleeding steam. Found a
microwave cooking thermometer and measured its standard brew cycle too
low. Releasing steam has no effect on the brew temperature. Like it's
supposed to say on the box, precisely hot steam to blast away and
imprecise coffee extraction. I decided to try it another way, and
bypass the brew thermostat altogether, from the steam control switch on
a single boiler, directly into the basket grind. Microwave thermometer
only reaches 190F, so it's pegged for now until I get another to
measure higher, to try timing for a rise on the steam cycle into
190-205F. An interesting tip-off.



 
Date: 16 Dec 2006 22:38:54
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: A thank you to alt.coffee
It seems like it has been a while since alt.coffee has had a letter
such as this... maybe it's just my memory, but still, it is great to
hear such success stories. it takes me back to my beginnings that were
much the same as yours except there was less info about the temp surf
and time surf and the PID had not been "invented" yet.

But most importantly, it reminds us (as if it were necessary) that
freshly and properly roasted, quality beans are the key to any coffee
beverage.

Congratulations on your success and thanks for sharing it here. Sounds
like there may be a coffee website in your future! ;-)

From smaller acorns large oaks have grown!


Randy "would someone get that squirrel out of my branches" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com




"Bwisit" <mckolit@yahoo.com > wrote:
>
>A thank you to all here at alt.coffee. Until yesterday, I've been
>using Starbucks beans. Yeah, I thought that it wouldn't be necessary
>to get fresh beans anywhere because I would be drinking milk based
>drinks anyway. But after being unsatisfied even with all that milk
>added to my espresso, I decided to get some fresh beans. Luckily, I
>live relatively close to coffee klatch. Over in these neck of the
>woods, we measure by time, not by miles travelled, and anything less
>than an hour away is close. So I got some fresh roasted beans from
>them that were roasted two days before, enough time for the beans to
>de-gas. So I grind it up, tamp, load the basket, hit the brew button,
>and behold, crema! First time I had that in a while. So I eagerly
>wait for my ounce to finish and taste. What's this? I get this
>nasty acidic sour taste! Could it be the beans? No way. This is a
>reputable place I bought them from. So on to alt.coffee I go and try
>to refresh my memory on all that I've read on how to make the right
>espresso. I find out that nasty acidic sour taste comes from low brew
>temperature. So I use the easy to do method of using a Styrofoam cup
>and my milk thermometer and find out my brew temperature at its peak is
>only 160 F. Too low. So I go back on here and it's suggested that
>if my brew temperature is that low, use the steam button for about 5
>seconds to get the water temperature up. So I try that. Grind, tamp,
>wait the extra five seconds with the steam button on, turn it off,
>brew. I taste, still too sour. So I grind extra beans cuz I know
>I'm gonna be using different timing methods. I wait 10 seconds with
>the steam button, turn it off, brew, and the sour taste is gone! Now
>I'm getting somewhere. I do this again. Same results. Try it for
>15 seconds, gets a little bitter. Do more experimenting and I've
>found that about 10-12 seconds with the steam button, then brew is just
>right. Needless to say, I am very awake, hence this thank you. So I
>prepare to make my ultimate capa, fill my basket with 7 grams of
>coffee, tamp, lock and load, press the steam button for 11 seconds,
>brew, and there it is. I wait what feels like hours for the steam
>light to go on, steam my milk, and pour. The gods are with me today
>because I even accidentally make an apple. I taste, and it's the
>best capa I've made. Sweet from the milk, nothing acidic or bitter
>in it. Angels are singing, stars are shining! So to all of you at
>alt.coffee, thank you thank you thank you.