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Date: 30 Sep 2006 23:46:20
From: Simpson
Subject: A wooden espresso machine?
To you burly boyos who, unlike myself, can weld, my hat's off to you. I
know it is an odd question, but I want to make the frame for a small,
two boiler espresso machine and wonder if it could be made out of a
sturdy wood like oak which was then well sealed with ine spar varnish
or the like? I can work wood to a limited degree but a simple frame
wouldn't be a problem with just a good miter box. I'd use metal or
plastic for water contact areas such as the drip pan (and metal for the
tray, of course). The panels may very well be wood though I suspect the
top would be metal.

Any reason why this wouldn't work? I understand that wooden joints would
have to be well fastened to withstand the torque of the pf insertion and
removal, and the wood well sealed to keep it from warping and twisting
in the heated environment, but so long as I dealt with those issues, and
given that we are talking home use rates here, do you think it would be
OK?

Thanks-

Ted
--
email me at:
tee en jay ess eye em pee ess oh en one-the-number (at) cee oh em cee a
ess tee (dot) en ee tee

ANY other email addie will probably mean I spam-killed your message
unread, by accident, really.




 
Date: 01 Oct 2006 13:34:11
From: toot
Subject: Re: A wooden espresso machine?
You've got my curiosity up on this-- if and when you do this project,
if you could take a picture of the finished machine and post it in
alt.binaries.coffee, I think many of us would be interested in
seeing the finished product.

Todd in Vallejo

On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 23:46:20 -0400, Simpson <nospam@nospam.spam >
wrote:

>OK?
>
>Thanks-
>
>Ted



 
Date: 01 Oct 2006 10:12:17
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: A wooden espresso machine?
A combination of wood and metal would be the best. Wire welders that
run on 110v and use flux-core wire are fairly easy to use. Try
www.HarborFreight.com for one. Make the skeleton framework out of
angle iron with mitered corners (use a bi-metal hacksaw blade to cut
it all) and then attach the wood outer shell using stainless hardware.
Panels of ine plywood can be quite nice and then do the edges with
oak or even stainless angle. Wood for a frame will have to be too
large and bulky to hold up to the stresses of an espresso machine-
just think about locking a portafilter a few hundred times while the
wood is subjected to all the heat up and cool down cycles. The welded
framework will be all hidden and so a mistake or two will never show,
and when done you can say 'I know how to weld.'

A few fire bricks for a welding table and an old pair of vise grips to
hold things together while you spot weld the parts will suffice. If
you have an oxy acetylene torch then you could also braze it together-
it's like silver soldering but on a larger scale. OOooo... How about
a polished brass framework, brass-brazed together, with clear plastic
panels held on with brass hardware!!!


Randy "platinum?" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com




Simpson <nospam@nospam.spam > wrote:

>To you burly boyos who, unlike myself, can weld, my hat's off to you. I
>know it is an odd question, but I want to make the frame for a small,
>two boiler espresso machine and wonder if it could be made out of a
>sturdy wood like oak which was then well sealed with ine spar varnish
>or the like? I can work wood to a limited degree but a simple frame
>wouldn't be a problem with just a good miter box. I'd use metal or
>plastic for water contact areas such as the drip pan (and metal for the
>tray, of course). The panels may very well be wood though I suspect the
>top would be metal.
>
>Any reason why this wouldn't work? I understand that wooden joints would
>have to be well fastened to withstand the torque of the pf insertion and
>removal, and the wood well sealed to keep it from warping and twisting
>in the heated environment, but so long as I dealt with those issues, and
>given that we are talking home use rates here, do you think it would be
>OK?
>
>Thanks-
>
>Ted


  
Date: 02 Oct 2006 04:44:13
From: Donn Cave
Subject: Re: A wooden espresso machine?
Quoth Randy G. <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com >:



 
Date: 01 Oct 2006 09:54:46
From: Dan Bollinger
Subject: Re: A wooden espresso machine?
> Any reason why this wouldn't work?

The first printing presses were wood. Many woodworkers prefer their all wood
vises. So, wood can, and has, been used in the context of creating structure to
apply force on another object. Still, both devices mentioned above have long
since gone to metal construction in the commercial ket.

Personally, I think this would be both a labor of love and an exercise in
futility.

If you do this, then at least use boatbuilding techniques. That is, epoxy glued
joints, and sealing all wood surfaces with epoxy, followed by a coat of spar
varnish. www.systemthree.com

Dan



 
Date: 01 Oct 2006 22:48:08
From: Natalie Drest
Subject: Re: A wooden espresso machine?

"Simpson" <nospam@nospam.spam > wrote in message
news:MPG.1f890419a6d83563989757@newsgroups.comcast.net...
> To you burly boyos who, unlike myself, can weld, my hat's off to you. I
> know it is an odd question, but I want to make the frame for a small,
> two boiler espresso machine and wonder if it could be made out of a
> sturdy wood like oak which was then well sealed with ine spar varnish
> or the like? I can work wood to a limited degree but a simple frame
> wouldn't be a problem with just a good miter box. I'd use metal or
> plastic for water contact areas such as the drip pan (and metal for the
> tray, of course). The panels may very well be wood though I suspect the
> top would be metal.
>
> Any reason why this wouldn't work? I understand that wooden joints would
> have to be well fastened to withstand the torque of the pf insertion and
> removal, and the wood well sealed to keep it from warping and twisting
> in the heated environment, but so long as I dealt with those issues, and
> given that we are talking home use rates here, do you think it would be
> OK?
>
> Thanks-
>
> Ted
> --
> email me at:
> tee en jay ess eye em pee ess oh en one-the-number (at) cee oh em cee a
> ess tee (dot) en ee tee
>
> ANY other email addie will probably mean I spam-killed your message
> unread, by accident, really.


Well, you know what happened with the wooden Rolls Royce-
Wooden wheels, wooden doors, wooden engine-
and wooden work. (say it aloud)

old australian schoolyard joke


--
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.




 
Date: 01 Oct 2006 01:28:26
From: daveb
Subject: Re: A wooden espresso machine?
I thought the Versatoy machine had a wooden enclosure???

dave "121"



  
Date: 01 Oct 2006 16:45:14
From: jim schulman
Subject: Re: A wooden espresso machine?
On 1 Oct 2006 01:28:26 -0700, "daveb" <davebobblane@gmail.com > wrote:

>I thought the Versatoy machine had a wooden enclosure???
>
It looked more like the fake wood countertop material.


   
Date: 01 Oct 2006 18:37:38
From: Dan Bollinger
Subject: Re: A wooden espresso machine?
>>I thought the Versatoy machine had a wooden enclosure???
>>
> It looked more like the fake wood countertop material.

Either way, the 'wood' in the Versatoy was not structural in a mechanical sense,
simply cabinetry. After all, it is not a lever machine. Dan



    
Date: 01 Oct 2006 19:29:55
From: Simpson
Subject: Re: A wooden espresso machine?
In article <abqdnUXlaq6p3r3YnZ2dnUVZ_vidnZ2d@insightbb.com >,
danNObollinger@insightSPAMbb.com says...
> >>I thought the Versatoy machine had a wooden enclosure???
> >>
> > It looked more like the fake wood countertop material.
>
> Either way, the 'wood' in the Versatoy was not structural in a mechanical sense,
> simply cabinetry. After all, it is not a lever machine. Dan
>
>
Yes, I can see no real problem (beyond warping and splitting etc) with
wooden enclosure panels. The frame of a lever machine would be a bear to
build out of wood, but I was thinking that a pump machine wouldn't be
such a big deal.

I hear that perhaps I should just use this as a time to learn to weld
and Randy's description of doing it on the cheap is appealing. I am
daunted though.

Do you guys have any DIY welding resources, books, links, specific
machine/technique suggestions, that I should look at?

Ted
--
email me at:
tee en jay ess eye em pee ess oh en one-the-number (at) cee oh em cee a
ess tee (dot) en ee tee

ANY other email addie will probably mean I spam-killed your message
unread, by accident, really.


     
Date: 02 Oct 2006 15:35:21
From: Mud Pup
Subject: Re: A wooden espresso machine?
Simpson wrote:
>
> Yes, I can see no real problem (beyond warping and splitting etc) with
> wooden enclosure panels. The frame of a lever machine would be a bear to
> build out of wood, but I was thinking that a pump machine wouldn't be
> such a big deal.

The wood would dampen the pump sound too.

> I hear that perhaps I should just use this as a time to learn to weld
> and Randy's description of doing it on the cheap is appealing. I am
> daunted though.
>
> Do you guys have any DIY welding resources, books, links, specific
> machine/technique suggestions, that I should look at?

As others have said, both arc welding and gas brazing will do
the job and easily survive espresso temperatures. Brazing is supposed
to be easier to learn. I know I was making good welds my first time
(not that you should care too much. Your's will be covered and
not as structurally critical as, say, a bicycle frame.)

Arc welders can be had as low as $70 at Harbor Freight. An oxy/MAPP
set-up up can be picked up at any of the major hardware stores for $50.
In either case, don't forget the goggles ($10).

Here's a guide to brazing.

http://www.handyharmancanada.com/TheBrazingBook/contents.htm

I still think the suggestion to use garage hardware is the easiest,
cheapest, safest, easiest to change later and gives lots of holes to
screw wood to.


     
Date: 02 Oct 2006 23:41:29
From: RobvL
Subject: Re: A wooden espresso machine?

"Simpson" <nospam@nospam.spam > wrote in message
news:MPG.1f8a1979b3761626989759@newsgroups.comcast.net...
> In article <abqdnUXlaq6p3r3YnZ2dnUVZ_vidnZ2d@insightbb.com>,
> danNObollinger@insightSPAMbb.com says...
> > >>I thought the Versatoy machine had a wooden enclosure???
> > >>
> > > It looked more like the fake wood countertop material.
> >
> > Either way, the 'wood' in the Versatoy was not structural in a
mechanical sense,
> > simply cabinetry. After all, it is not a lever machine. Dan
> >
> >
> Yes, I can see no real problem (beyond warping and splitting etc) with
> wooden enclosure panels. The frame of a lever machine would be a bear to
> build out of wood, but I was thinking that a pump machine wouldn't be
> such a big deal.
>
> I hear that perhaps I should just use this as a time to learn to weld
> and Randy's description of doing it on the cheap is appealing. I am
> daunted though.

Don't be daunted.

An old AC stick welding plant shouldn't set you back much. Even a new handy
man type AC unit should be cheap just low duty cycle ratings. ( If you want
an inverter unit pays to spend a little more) Stick is more challenging than
Mig and no good for panel steel but 2mm thick is do-able. For welding rods
start with some 2.5mm GP rods something like a 6013 stay away from 6010 or
6011. Weld hotter than colder especially when learning, easy to start the
rods and less likely to get slag holes. IE if the packet says the rods can
be run from 50 to 100 amps start by setting the welder at 85 or 90 amps.
Like anything it is practise.

If you can afford a Mig unit go for it, but it isn't idiot proof just easier
to use, and used with hard wire (GMAW as opposed to FCAW) more suitable for
welding panel.
Check out the local library for welding books.

Rob vL
NZ

>
> Do you guys have any DIY welding resources, books, links, specific
> machine/technique suggestions, that I should look at?
>
> Ted
> --
> email me at:
> tee en jay ess eye em pee ess oh en one-the-number (at) cee oh em cee a
> ess tee (dot) en ee tee
>
> ANY other email addie will probably mean I spam-killed your message
> unread, by accident, really.




     
Date: 02 Oct 2006 00:25:44
From: Steve Ackman
Subject: Re: A wooden espresso machine?
In <MPG.1f8a1979b3761626989759@newsgroups.comcast.net >, on Sun, 1 Oct
2006 19:29:55 -0400, Simpson wrote:

> I hear that perhaps I should just use this as a time to learn to weld
> and Randy's description of doing it on the cheap is appealing. I am
> daunted though.

Reportedly MIG is the easiest to learn, though not
as pretty as TIG. Flux core wire is the cheapest way
to go with wirefeed, but results in uglier welds than
TIG, not to mention every bit as much smoke as arc
stick welding.

AC arc always used to be the least expensive, but
with inverter technology, DC units are coming down
drastically.

TIG generally results in the prettiest weld, but
likely the most expensive... especially if you ever
want to weld aluminum in which case, you'll want AC
as well as DC... minimum of $1.5K for AC/DC TIG.

> Do you guys have any DIY welding resources, books, links, specific
> machine/technique suggestions, that I should look at?

One that I had a bad experience with:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=91811
It ran for about 3 minutes and fizzled.
Sent it back for a refund.

Second time around, I decided to take a chance on
an eBay unit from smileytools since he had such good
feedback. (Note, no warranty defined).
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180007457343

I have the least amount of welding experience with oxy-
acetylene, but lots with O-A equipment using oxy-propane
to "weld" glass.
With practice, you can do a lot with O-A. Best book
I have on that is "The Welder's Bible" by Don Geary.
It's 95% gas welding and brazing. It barely touches on
MIG, and I don't think it even mentions TIG.
(It's fairly old, so probably out of print, and difficult
to find anyway.)

For ARC/MIG/TIG, I really like "Welder's Handbook"
by Richad Finch, though he covers oxy-acetylene as well.
I've seen the book online several places, and even at
Home Depot. This is a must-read before you decide which
route you want to go. For instance, regarding a
suggestion for flux core wire in a MIG machine:

MIG Welding
Wire feed welding, officially known as GMAW
(gas metal arc welding), has really become popular
since 1985. It is possible to drive to your local
hardware store, buy a $300 MIG welder, take it home
and plug it into a 110v outlet and immediately begin
welding.
But, as with most things in life, one machine
just will not do everything. The least expensive MIG
welder must use flux-core wire, and it is limited to
3/16" and thinner metals, and it produces gobs of smoke
and spatter...

I had an '85 Subaru wagon that was so rusted out, it
wouldn't pass inspection. After 4 lbs. of MIG wire,
80ft³ of inert gas, 24 ft² of sheet metal, and some
pieces of 1/8" scrap, it was better than new.
Tried some of that flux core wire too cause it was
there, and the gray gas bottle was empty. Forget that!
2 minutes of flux core, and I was off to the welding
store to refill the gas bottle. (75/25 CO2/He, IIRC)
Couple of things that make MIG attractive is the lack
of smoke, and no bother of having to chip slag off.
If you use flux core wire, you might as well be stick
welding.

If you go MIG, you'll definitely want to do it with
the expansion of the acronym, "Metal Inert Gas" in mind.


And for an "off the beaten track" detour, I melted
some glass week before last using a carbon arc torch...
which I stepped on yesterday, breaking one of the
carbons (my last). 8-/


      
Date: 02 Oct 2006 23:30:15
From: RobvL
Subject: Re: A wooden espresso machine?

"Steve Ackman" <steve@SNIP-THIS.twoloonscoffee.com > wrote in message
news:slrnei1563.31gj.steve@wizard.dyndns.org...

snipped

> I had an '85 Subaru wagon that was so rusted out, it
> wouldn't pass inspection. After 4 lbs. of MIG wire,
> 80ft³ of inert gas, 24 ft² of sheet metal, and some
> pieces of 1/8" scrap, it was better than new.
> Tried some of that flux core wire too cause it was
> there, and the gray gas bottle was empty. Forget that!
> 2 minutes of flux core, and I was off to the welding
> store to refill the gas bottle. (75/25 CO2/He, IIRC)
> Couple of things that make MIG attractive is the lack
> of smoke, and no bother of having to chip slag off.
> If you use flux core wire, you might as well be stick
> welding.

Yes and no. The main advantage with FCAW is high deposition rates. The
quality of stick welding (SMAW) only 4 times as fast. Most "shop" flux cored
welding is done with dual shield wires - flux cored with gas, typically CO2
but sometimes an Argon mix. Dual shield is less spattery than inner shield
only.
Out side of the home handy man use of inner shield wires it is typically
used on site where even light wind would blow the shielding gas away from
Dual shield.
But Yes for a home handy man Stick is a good way to go.

Rob vL
NZ




     
Date: 02 Oct 2006 02:46:55
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: A wooden espresso machine?
On Sun, 1 Oct 2006 19:29:55 -0400, Simpson <nospam@nospam.spam > wrote:

>Do you guys have any DIY welding resources, books, links, specific
>machine/technique suggestions, that I should look at?

this is what i have:
http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/millermatic_175/index.php

but the 135 would probably be sufficient for you.

there is a lot of info available at the miller website. it is sort of
like making espresso.... there's a bunch of basic info you can learn
from the books/videos, but the real education starts when the metal
starts to sizzle. eg: dad -- "do you know what you're doing?" me --
"i will in a minute.... bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz" :)



     
Date: 01 Oct 2006 20:10:33
From: Dan Bollinger
Subject: Re: A wooden espresso machine?
> Do you guys have any DIY welding resources, books, links, specific
> machine/technique suggestions, that I should look at?

I would try again at rec.crafts.metalworking Dan


 
Date: 01 Oct 2006 06:39:36
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: A wooden espresso machine?
On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 23:46:20 -0400, Simpson <nospam@nospam.spam >
wrote:

>Any reason why this wouldn't work?

this is a perfect opportunity for you to learn how to weld. Mig
welding is relatively easy, and it's a great lot of fun to sizzle
metal together. i like it so much that i'm building all the frames
for our counters out of 1-1/2" square steel tubing. prepping the
floors for staining, however, i'm not so fond of, and i've been doing
that for the last two days. ouch. sore. really sore. stiff, too.

welding, fun. mopping 2400 sqft ten times, not so fun.

--barry "stain's down"


  
Date: 02 Oct 2006 15:24:29
From: Brent
Subject: Re: A wooden espresso machine?
> --barry "stain's down"

but pictures aren't up...




   
Date: 02 Oct 2006 02:32:09
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: A wooden espresso machine?
On Mon, 2 Oct 2006 15:24:29 +1300, "Brent" <me@privacy.net > wrote:

>> --barry "stain's down"
>
>but pictures aren't up...
>


freakin' exhausted last night.

floor is done. we used a spiffy soy-based stain
(http://www.ecosafetyproducts.com/) and one coat of soy sealer, then
two coats of rustoleum polyurethane.

painting starts tomorrow.

i'll try to get pix up tonight.



 
Date: 01 Oct 2006 00:29:13
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: A wooden espresso machine?
In the long run I don't think that wood would hold up well. If you don't
weld, you could still bolt something together. I'd suggest starting with
something like perforated angle iron:

http://www.garage-doors-and-parts.com/garage-door-hardware.html


Use lock washers on the bolts and threadlocking compound and run diagonal
braces if possible to create rigidity.



"Simpson" <nospam@nospam.spam > wrote in message
news:MPG.1f890419a6d83563989757@newsgroups.comcast.net...
> To you burly boyos who, unlike myself, can weld, my hat's off to you. I
> know it is an odd question, but I want to make the frame for a small,
> two boiler espresso machine and wonder if it could be made out of a
> sturdy wood like oak which was then well sealed with ine spar varnish
> or the like? I can work wood to a limited degree but a simple frame
> wouldn't be a problem with just a good miter box. I'd use metal or
> plastic for water contact areas such as the drip pan (and metal for the
> tray, of course). The panels may very well be wood though I suspect the
> top would be metal.
>
> Any reason why this wouldn't work? I understand that wooden joints would
> have to be well fastened to withstand the torque of the pf insertion and
> removal, and the wood well sealed to keep it from warping and twisting
> in the heated environment, but so long as I dealt with those issues, and
> given that we are talking home use rates here, do you think it would be
> OK?
>
> Thanks-
>
> Ted
> --
> email me at:
> tee en jay ess eye em pee ess oh en one-the-number (at) cee oh em cee a
> ess tee (dot) en ee tee
>
> ANY other email addie will probably mean I spam-killed your message
> unread, by accident, really.




  
Date: 01 Oct 2006 01:00:15
From: jim schulman
Subject: Re: A wooden espresso machine?
On Sun, 1 Oct 2006 00:29:13 -0400, "Jack Denver"
<nunuvyer@netscape.net > wrote:

>n the long run I don't think that wood would hold up well. If you don't
>weld, you could still bolt something together. I'd suggest starting with
>something like perforated angle iron:
>
>http://www.garage-doors-and-parts.com/garage-door-hardware.html
>
>
>Use lock washers on the bolts and threadlocking compound and run diagonal
>braces if possible to create rigidity.

I was going to suggest the same thing as an interior frame for your
wooden box. Most espresso machines have an interior frame because the
metal walls are too thin to stand up to the stresses.