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Date: 03 Dec 2006 06:30:26
From: daveb
Subject: Announcing an improved "PID" control for Silvia
After being highly impressed by the responsiveness shown by the TCs I
have inserted in the boilers of a dozen Quick Mill HX machines, I
developed a similar enhancement for the Rancilio Silvia.

A stainless sheathed, type 'T' thermocouple is inserted through the
top of the boiler -- dead center -- into the WATER, not strapped to the
outside of the boiler.

This permits quicker response -- less lag and more realistic
temperature inputs to the controller.

It is much more work and more expensive, but helps to deliver a better
product -- great coffee.

Retrofitted to your Silvia -- $260.00, plus return shipping. (not a
kit)

I welcome your comments.

Dave
www.hitechespresso.com
877 286 2833





 
Date: 28 Dec 2006 09:17:06
From: daveb
Subject: Re: improved "PID" control for Silvia
correction, Bertie, I 'misspoke'

The HX machine can be operated in the 'low' setting -- effectively
creating a single boiler operation.

In operation now for almost a year on: Tea, Millenium, Livia, Anita,
Vetrano and Andreja.

Dave




Bertie Doe wrote:
> "daveb" wrote in message
> > If you are running it in the "single boiler" (low) temp. mode no.
> > If in higher temp. HX mode, yes.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > Bertie Doe wrote:
> >
> >> Dave, does a PID fitted HX machine, still require cooling flushes?
>
> Thanks Dave, there's more to this PID lark than meets the eye. When you say
> 'single boiler low' mode, are you referring to non-HX machines, like Silvia
> and Zaffiro?
>
> Bertie



 
Date: 05 Dec 2006 15:37:56
From: RoughJaw
Subject: Re: Announcing an improved spam control for Silvia
On Sun, 03 Dec 2006 06:30:26 -0800, daveb wrote:

> I welcome your comments.
>
> Dave
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5627694446211716271
> 877 286 2833

Take it to a *.ketplace group

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com



 
Date: 04 Dec 2006 09:54:36
From: jggall01
Subject: Re: improved "PID" control for Silvia
daveb wrote:

> without the lag produced by the thermal mass of the boiler.

With Silvia's design, the water changes temperature significantly as it
travels through the boiler, to the group, and then to the screen.
Sometimes I think that we should forget about controlling the boiler
water temperature, and instead work on controlling the temperature of
all that brass.

Not a serious proposal (yet?), just food for thought and discussion.

Jim



  
Date: 04 Dec 2006 19:02:16
From: Bertie Doe
Subject: Re: improved "PID" control for Silvia

"jggall01" wrote in message
> daveb wrote:
>
>> without the lag produced by the thermal mass of the boiler.
>
> With Silvia's design, the water changes temperature significantly as it
> travels through the boiler, to the group, and then to the screen.
> Sometimes I think that we should forget about controlling the boiler
> water temperature, and instead work on controlling the temperature of
> all that brass.
>
Before unleashing and idea on ac, I tested 'elsewhere' the possibility of
installing a secondary circulating pump, between the boiler and the
brasswork. Say a 10watt pump with some sort of cut-off protection
valve/circuit. Had it been a non-caffeinated forum - everyone would have
nodded off to sleep.

> Not a serious proposal (yet?), just food for thought and discussion.
>
Jim, don't even think about it.

Bertie




   
Date: 04 Dec 2006 19:05:14
From: Bertie Doe
Subject: Re: improved "PID" control for Silvia

"Bertie Doe" wrote in message >
<snip >
>the possibility of installing a secondary circulating pump, between the
>boiler and the brasswork.

Edit : Non HX machines , of course!
BD




 
Date: 04 Dec 2006 09:38:45
From: daveb
Subject: Re: improved "PID" control for Silvia
Exactly!


dave

>
> Thanks Dave, there's more to this PID lark than meets the eye. When you say
> 'single boiler low' mode, are you referring to non-HX machines, like Silvia
> and Zaffiro?
>
> Bertie



 
Date: 04 Dec 2006 09:34:28
From: daveb
Subject: Re: improved "PID" control for Silvia
Thank you for your thoughts, smith.

dave



 
Date: 04 Dec 2006 06:40:01
From: daveb
Subject: Re: improved "PID" control for Silvia
If you are running it in the "single boiler" (low) temp. mode no.
If in higher temp. HX mode, yes.

Dave

Bertie Doe wrote:

> Dave, does a PID fitted HX machine, still require cooling flushes?
> Bertie



  
Date: 04 Dec 2006 15:22:29
From: Bertie Doe
Subject: Re: improved "PID" control for Silvia

"daveb" wrote in message
> If you are running it in the "single boiler" (low) temp. mode no.
> If in higher temp. HX mode, yes.
>
> Dave
>
> Bertie Doe wrote:
>
>> Dave, does a PID fitted HX machine, still require cooling flushes?

Thanks Dave, there's more to this PID lark than meets the eye. When you say
'single boiler low' mode, are you referring to non-HX machines, like Silvia
and Zaffiro?

Bertie




 
Date: 04 Dec 2006 04:23:41
From: daveb
Subject: improved "PID" control for Silvia
I will ignore the expected smith sarcasm.

because, smith, I wanted to sense the WATER which is closer what is
making the coffee, than the very top of the boiler, where just inside
there may or may not be steam or vapor, skewing the TC output to the
controller. -- more accurate.

Same way the tc inside HX machines are delivering VERY accurate
temp/pressure control,
without the lag produced by the thermal mass of the boiler.


Dave
177



  
Date: 04 Dec 2006 17:29:52
From: Ian Smith
Subject: Re: improved "PID" control for Silvia
On 4 Dec 2006 04:23:41 -0800, daveb <davebobblane@gmail.com > wrote:
> I will ignore the expected smith sarcasm.
>
> because, smith, I wanted to sense the WATER which is closer what is
> making the coffee, than the very top of the boiler, where just inside
> there may or may not be steam or vapor, skewing the TC output to the
> controller. -- more accurate.

Nonsense. Any vapour in the boiler is at the same temperature as the
water in there. At the steady state, you have no more accuracy than
mounting the boiler on the surface of the boiler.

regards, Ian SMith
--


  
Date: 04 Dec 2006 13:08:05
From: Bertie Doe
Subject: Re: improved "PID" control for Silvia

"daveb" wrote in message >>
> Same way the tc inside HX machines are delivering VERY accurate
> temp/pressure control,
> without the lag produced by the thermal mass of the boiler.
>
> Dave
> 177

Dave, does a PID fitted HX machine, still require cooling flushes?
Bertie




 
Date: 03 Dec 2006 13:48:49
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Announcing an improved "PID" control for Silvia
no, I welcome your [constructive] comments.

thanx



  
Date: 04 Dec 2006 07:19:22
From: Ian Smith
Subject: Re: Announcing an improved "PID" control for Silvia
On 3 Dec 2006 13:48:49 -0800, daveb <davebobblane@gmail.com > wrote:

> no, I welcome your [constructive] comments.

That's wonderful Dave, what a clever chap you are.

Why do you want rapid response on a system you're driving to a steady
state before using?

regards, Ian SMith
--


 
Date: 03 Dec 2006 18:34:25
From: Ian Smith
Subject: Re: Announcing an improved "PID" control for Silvia
On 3 Dec 2006 06:30:26 -0800, daveb <davebobblane@gmail.com > wrote:
>
> I welcome your comments.

Why do you want quick response on a system you're driving to a steady
state before operation?

regards, Ian SMith
--


  
Date: 03 Dec 2006 18:55:51
From: Alan
Subject: Re: Announcing an improved "PID" control for Silvia

"Ian Smith" <ian@astounding.org.uk > wrote in message
news:slrnen665d.ev7.ian@acheron.smithnet...
> On 3 Dec 2006 06:30:26 -0800, daveb <davebobblane@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I welcome your comments.
>
> Why do you want quick response on a system you're driving to a steady
> state before operation?
>
> regards, Ian SMith

I think what he really meant to say was "I welcome your business" . . .