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Date: 05 Mar 2007 15:11:54
From: anthony
Subject: Australian coffee grinder question
I have the chance to upgrade from my old Solis 166 to a brand-new
Sunbeam EM0480 (with the Lux burrsets) at a very good price.
Only prob is that I have two machines, one with a 58mm portafilter,
the other 53mm. Would I have to change the portafilter rest each time
I change coffee machines, or can the smaller one be held steady within
the larger rest without the need to keep changing them over?





 
Date: 05 Mar 2007 18:40:28
From: anthony
Subject: Re: ideal roasting temp

> > > Is there an ideal target temperature/duration at which more sugars are
> > > formed during a roast?

OK -- chat on here. I'll start a new thread.






 
Date: 05 Mar 2007 18:27:55
From: anthony
Subject: Re: Australian coffe grinder question
On 6, 12:45 pm, "Ed Needham" <e...@NOSPAMhomeroaster.com > wrote:
> If you look at the post I responded to, it has nothing to do with grinders.
>
> Quoted:
> Subject: Roasting for Sweeter Coffee"yoma" wrote in message
>
> news:45eca683$0$31097$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
>
> > Is there an ideal target temperature/duration at which more sugars are
> > formed during a roast?
>
> --
> *********************
Thanks for your courtesy, Yoma ... I guess Ed doesn't realise that
people using Google Groups (as I do) only see the topic as a single
item which they'll respond to or not as they choose. People able to
help me with my enquiry won't be opening a thread about roasting!
Anyway, hope you get all the info you need.
Cheers and thanks.



  
Date: 05 Mar 2007 19:21:41
From:
Subject: Re: Australian coffe grinder question
On 5 2007 18:27:55 -0800, "anthony"
<anthonyjhcnospam@netscape.net > wrote:

>On 6, 12:45 pm, "Ed Needham" <e...@NOSPAMhomeroaster.com> wrote:
>> If you look at the post I responded to, it has nothing to do with grinders.
>>
>> Quoted:
>> Subject: Roasting for Sweeter Coffee"yoma" wrote in message
>>
>> news:45eca683$0$31097$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
>>
>> > Is there an ideal target temperature/duration at which more sugars are
>> > formed during a roast?
>>
>> --
>> *********************
>Thanks for your courtesy, Yoma ... I guess Ed doesn't realise that
>people using Google Groups (as I do) only see the topic as a single
>item which they'll respond to or not as they choose. People able to
>help me with my enquiry won't be opening a thread about roasting!
>Anyway, hope you get all the info you need.
>Cheers and thanks.


Is Google Groups the New AOL? Is the v.2.0 of the endless September?






_______________________________________
Please Note: If you find a posting or message from me
offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate.


 
Date: 05 Mar 2007 17:43:34
From: anthony
Subject: Re: Australian coffe grinder question
I really am seeking advice before buying this grinder, so I'd
appreciate it if yoma, ed etc can use their own thread for their
discussion instead of hijacking this one. Just seeking some common
coffee courtesy..... tks




  
Date: 05 Mar 2007 20:52:01
From: Ed Needham
Subject: Re: Australian coffe grinder question
Gotta give common courtesy before getting it. A little courtesy goes a long
way with me. tks

Maybe you haven't been on Usenet very long and don't understand how someone
can change the subject and start a new thread as Yoma did. He probably
should have started a totally new thread, but either way, you can ignore any
post with the undesired subject line. Use a threaded newsreader and it
makes it very easy to do.
--
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"
http://www.homeroaster.com
(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

"anthony" <anthonyjhcnospam@netscape.net > wrote in message
news:1173145414.416316.235770@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
>I really am seeking advice before buying this grinder, so I'd
> appreciate it if yoma, ed etc can use their own thread for their
> discussion instead of hijacking this one. Just seeking some common
> coffee courtesy..... tks
>
>




   
Date: 05 Mar 2007 21:37:46
From: Craig Andrews
Subject: Re: Australian coffe grinder question

"Ed Needham" <ed@NOSPAMhomeroaster.com > wrote in message
news:xc-dnT0zIpmPVHHYnZ2dnUVZ_oernZ2d@insightbb.com...
> Gotta give common courtesy before getting it. A little courtesy goes
> a long way with me. tks
>
> Maybe you haven't been on Usenet very long and don't understand how
> someone can change the subject and start a new thread as Yoma did. He
> probably should have started a totally new thread, but either way, you
> can ignore any post with the undesired subject line. Use a threaded
> newsreader and it makes it very easy to do.
> --
> *********************
> Ed Needham®


Sometimes ya can't win for loosin' eh Ed?..
Craig.



   
Date: 06 Mar 2007 13:12:11
From: yoma
Subject: Re: Australian coffe grinder question
Ed Needham wrote:
> Gotta give common courtesy before getting it. A little courtesy goes a long
> way with me. tks
>
> Maybe you haven't been on Usenet very long and don't understand how someone
> can change the subject and start a new thread as Yoma did. He probably
> should have started a totally new thread, but either way, you can ignore any
> post with the undesired subject line. Use a threaded newsreader and it
> makes it very easy to do.

Yes I did mess up.

I cancelled my post and reposted as a new thread/subject (within 5secs).
However it appears this didn't do the trick.
I'll let this message die off, and repost again later.
Ed - thank you for your response.
-yoma


 
Date: 05 Mar 2007 17:35:04
From: anthony
Subject: Re: Australian coffe grinder question
Well, that doesn't even come close to answeriing the question. Which
was, if you didn't notice, about coffee grinders, not roasting.




  
Date: 05 Mar 2007 20:45:43
From: Ed Needham
Subject: Re: Australian coffe grinder question
If you look at the post I responded to, it has nothing to do with grinders.

Quoted:
Subject: Roasting for Sweeter Coffee
"yoma" wrote in message
news:45eca683$0$31097$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> Is there an ideal target temperature/duration at which more sugars are
> formed during a roast?

--
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"
http://www.homeroaster.com
(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************


"anthony" <anthonyjhcnospam@netscape.net > wrote in message
news:1173144904.477899.293800@64g2000cwx.googlegroups.com...
> Well, that doesn't even come close to answeriing the question. Which
> was, if you didn't notice, about coffee grinders, not roasting.
>
>




 
Date: 05 Mar 2007 16:05:30
From: anthony
Subject: Australian coffee grinder question
hope someone out there will be able to help!



 
Date: 06 Mar 2007 10:23:47
From: yoma
Subject: Roasting for Sweeter Coffee

Is there an ideal target temperature/duration at which more sugars are
formed during a roast?



  
Date: 12 Mar 2007 14:57:17
From: jim schulman
Subject: Re: Roasting for Sweeter Coffee
On Tue, 06 2007 10:23:47 +1100, yoma <yoma@yoma.net.au > wrote:

>
>Is there an ideal target temperature/duration at which more sugars are
>formed during a roast?

Here's the sugar story:

From about 300F to the first crack, sugars get used up in Maillard
reactions along with amino acids. These form the "bright-bitter"
tastes like wood & nut. If you want your coffee sweet, rush through
this part of the roast as fast as possible. If the coffee is plenty
sweet, and the wood and nut flavors are noble, slow down here to
develop them.

At the pressure levels inside the bean, sugars start caramelizing
around the first crack. The simple acids responsible for tart tastes
also start evaporating at this point. The perception of sweetenss will
depend on the balance of light caramels and remaining sugars to the
acids and bright-bitter flavors.

Therefore, for maximum sweetness, slow it down during the first crack
to cook off the acids, while keeping the caramelization light.

Finally, finish the roast fast to the first pops of the second or just
ahead of this point.


   
Date: 13 Mar 2007 10:56:24
From: yoma
Subject: Re: Roasting for Sweeter Coffee
jim schulman wrote:
> On Tue, 06 2007 10:23:47 +1100, yoma <yoma@yoma.net.au> wrote:
>
>> Is there an ideal target temperature/duration at which more sugars are
>> formed during a roast?
>
> Here's the sugar story:
>
> From about 300F to the first crack, sugars get used up in Maillard
> reactions along with amino acids.

Is the temperature you're referring to, what I see with a TC placed in
the bean mass?

These form the "bright-bitter"
> tastes like wood & nut. If you want your coffee sweet, rush through
> this part of the roast as fast as possible. If the coffee is plenty
> sweet, and the wood and nut flavors are noble, slow down here to
> develop them.
>
> At the pressure levels inside the bean, sugars start caramelizing
> around the first crack. The simple acids responsible for tart tastes
> also start evaporating at this point. The perception of sweetenss will
> depend on the balance of light caramels and remaining sugars to the
> acids and bright-bitter flavors.
>
> Therefore, for maximum sweetness, slow it down during the first crack
> to cook off the acids, while keeping the caramelization light.

Ah! This is partly what sparked off my initial post.

I recently 'messed' up my controls during a roast which didn't get
beyond 213C(415F).

This is roughly around about the mid point / peak of my 1st crack during
my normal roast profile.

In this specific case it went very slow from start of 1st. Contrary to
my expectation, the result was surprising sweet (and good as espresso).

thanks all
-yoma

>
> Finally, finish the roast fast to the first pops of the second or just
> ahead of this point.


    
Date: 13 Mar 2007 11:11:42
From: yoma
Subject: Re: Roasting for Sweeter Coffee
yoma wrote:
> I recently 'messed' up my controls during a roast which didn't get
> beyond 213C(415F).

Oops/correction, just checked my notes: - roast finished at 217C(423F).


    
Date: 13 Mar 2007 11:08:17
From: yoma
Subject: Re: Roasting for Sweeter Coffee
yoma wrote:
> I recently 'messed' up my controls during a roast which didn't get
> beyond 213C(415F).
>
> This is roughly around about the mid point / peak of my 1st crack during
> my normal roast profile.
>
> In this specific case it went very slow from start of 1st. Contrary to
> my expectation, the result was surprising sweet (and good as espresso).
>
> thanks all
> -yoma
>
>> Finally, finish the roast fast to the first pops of the second or just
>> ahead of this point.


   
Date: 12 Mar 2007 18:09:26
From: Ed Needham
Subject: Re: Roasting for Sweeter Coffee
As Jim well knows, what he is saying is just a starting point with any bean.
Lots of experimentation will tell you when you have hit the right profile to
bring out one particular flavor, be it sugar, caramel, fruitiness or
roastiness in a bean.
If you rush too fast through first, there are other problems that show up in
the cup. If you go too slow, same thing. More problems. Finding balance
is the key. And it will differ from bean to bean.
--
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"
http://www.homeroaster.com
(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************


"jim schulman" <jim_schulman@ameritech.net > wrote in message
news:qmbbv29vcfpqucjfbqd663c4kh7jnq4m25@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 06 2007 10:23:47 +1100, yoma <yoma@yoma.net.au> wrote:
>
>>
>>Is there an ideal target temperature/duration at which more sugars are
>>formed during a roast?
>
> Here's the sugar story:
>
> From about 300F to the first crack, sugars get used up in Maillard
> reactions along with amino acids. These form the "bright-bitter"
> tastes like wood & nut. If you want your coffee sweet, rush through
> this part of the roast as fast as possible. If the coffee is plenty
> sweet, and the wood and nut flavors are noble, slow down here to
> develop them.
>
> At the pressure levels inside the bean, sugars start caramelizing
> around the first crack. The simple acids responsible for tart tastes
> also start evaporating at this point. The perception of sweetenss will
> depend on the balance of light caramels and remaining sugars to the
> acids and bright-bitter flavors.
>
> Therefore, for maximum sweetness, slow it down during the first crack
> to cook off the acids, while keeping the caramelization light.
>
> Finally, finish the roast fast to the first pops of the second or just
> ahead of this point.




  
Date: 05 Mar 2007 20:05:15
From: Ed Needham
Subject: Re: Roasting for Sweeter Coffee
Roasting is much more complicated than any simple answer to your question.
With different beans, different moisture levels, different chemical
compositions inside the bean, the temperatures and times differ. The
Maillard reaction begins to be observed at around 300F bean temperature.
That's where the acids, sugars and heat create a browning process. Water is
created in this process and as it, and the moisture in the bean heats to
boiling, the steam pressure pops the bean open in first crack. A side
result is the sweet baked bread smell at that point in the process.
Caramelization is a heat driven oxidation of the sugars and gives the roast
many of the wonderful flavors we love. The caramelization occurs at
different temperatures for different sugars.
Sugar........Temperature
Fructose....230° F
Glucose....320° F
Maltose.....356° F
Sucrose....320° F
Keep in mind that these events don't happen all at once either, but have a
typical 'bell curve' where the process begins, peaks and tapers off.

I have never found a practical way to incorporate this information in my
roasting process with any success, except to be able to know 'about' what's
going on under the hood. Of course that helps, but eyes, ears and my nose
tell me more about how a roast is progressing and how it will turn out.
Maybe a larger scale roaster would need to factor all these in to the
program that roasts the coffee on a computerized auto pilot.
--
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"
http://www.homeroaster.com
(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************



"yoma" wrote in message
news:45eca683$0$31097$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
>
> Is there an ideal target temperature/duration at which more sugars are
> formed during a roast?
>