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Date: 20 Feb 2007 17:04:17
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Beware of phony ebay "2nd chance offers"
Today I received a "2nd chance" offer to buy an item that I did not win on
ebay. There were some (not so) subtle signs that the offer was not real
(there is such a thing as a genuine official ebay 2nd chance offer but you
should basically assume that all such offers are false until proven
otherwise). I contacted the original seller via the Ebay "ask seller a
question" function directly on the original auction page and he confirmed
immediately that it was fake. The phony sellers (phony) name is the very
Romanian sounding Costim Ionat Hristo. Romania is one of these places like
Nigeria and Indonesia with a weak legal system and lots of underemployed
people who have nothing better to do than run scams. I am going to play him
further for a while in the hope of either getting more information as to his
location and identity and learning more about how these frauds operate, or
at the very least wasting his time.

Below is his first reply after the intial contact. It will be interesting to
see how he finishes the deal "thru ebay":

"Hi,
I will let it go for your last bid price and I will pay the shipping costs
and insurance taxes.
We will finish this deal only through eBay.
They will hold your payment and release it to me only after you will
receive, inspect and agree with the item.
You'll have 5 days to inspect it.
In order to speed up the things I will start the shipping in the same day
I'll receive the payment confirmation.
The delivery process to your location will take up to 6 days.
Please provide me your full name and shipping address so we can get the ball
rolling and I will contact eBay regarding our deal.
After that they will send you the information of "how to purchase the item".

Thanks "

I of course sent him a phony name and address (one of the clues was that he
did not have my real name - real ebay 2nd chance offers have your real name
in them. Another clue is the "too good to be true" offer to pay shipping.)
I'm not sure how he manipulated the ebay process even to get my email but
there's some hole in the security that allows him to do this much.






 
Date: 22 Feb 2007 10:01:24
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Beware of phony ebay "2nd chance offers"
On Feb 22, 10:47 am, "Jack Denver" <nunuv...@netscape.net > wrote:
> OK, that makes sense. I did forward the email to s...@ebay.com and got
> back the usual automated message. I suspect that they get millions of
> these. I wish they had a different address for scams than they do for
> phishing ... I get several rather obvious generic phishing messages every
> day, but this is the first time someone has taken the trouble to try a
> "tailor made" scam that requires a lot more effort and was (at first glance
> at least) a lot more convincing as a result. I did not come close to being
> taken in but someone who is less internet savvy might have fallen for this
> because it looked very similar to a real 2nd chance offer.
>
> In the meantime, my scammer appears to have disappeared - he no longer
> answers my emails. I think these guys just bail out if the k does not
> follow their template exactly, and move on to the next one. I asked him for
> his address so I could "send him a mail order" and of course he wouldn't
> give it.
>
> "Mathew Hargreaves" <mathe...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
>
> news:45DD3B0D.57989F9E@worldnet.att.net...
>
> > Jack,
>
> > If your bidding identity is in his hands, all he has to do is look
> > you up with the bidder search. When the information comes up, there is a
> > link box to their email system to "Contact Member". He will not know
> > your name but it could look like a legitimate offer from the original
> > seller. Scams are a plenty.
> > Since it is likely to be a scam, forward that original email to
> > S...@ebay.com, and add a message that this looks to be a scam. Let them
> > do the research. Actually forward any messages to them.
>
> > CHEERS...Mathew
>
> > Jack Denver wrote:
>
> >> No, no this not a random phishing type email. This was a "2nd chance
> >> offer "
> >> on a specific auction where I was the 2nd place finisher. Now your ebay
> >> ID
> >> is visible in the bidders page, and he was able to pick out likely
> >> transactions from a "completed auctions" search, but ebay no longer
> >> allows
> >> people who are not parties to a transaction to have access to the email
> >> address of other ebay members - that's the part I can't figure out. Also
> >> whatever he did allowed him to get my email address and my ebay ID but
> >> not
> >> my name (one clue to fakeness is that real 2nd chance offers do have your
> >> real name in them).
>
> >> "JC Dill" <jcd...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >>news:throt2phv51bgg6tpgma7051tsn7t1j9jh@4ax.com...
> >> > On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 17:04:17 -0500, "Jack Denver"
> >> > <nunuv...@netscape.net> wrote:
>
> >> >>I'm not sure how he manipulated the ebay process even to get my email
> >> >>but
> >> >>there's some hole in the security that allows him to do this much.
>
> >> > Nah, he just got lucky. These phish emails go out to every email they
> >> > can find - odds are that some of those emails will be for people with
> >> > an eBay account.
>
> >> > If you want to have some fun with this guy, check out
>
> >> > <http://bustedupcowgirl.com/scampage.html>
>
> >> > and
>
> >> > <http://www.zug.com/pranks/powerbook/>
>
> >> > Note - do NOT under any circumstances fill out any forms on the
> >> > "auction pages" or "payment pages" that would pay this guy. He's
> >> > almost certainly going to try to con you into going to a link he
> >> > provides that - upon first glance - looks like a genuine eBay page.
> >> > The page will NOT be an eBay page and any information you enter on
> >> > that page will not be sent to eBay, it will be sent to the scammer.
> >> > Say bye-buh to your eBay account if you "login" to his scam page - he
> >> > will change your email and password on that account and then list high
> >> > priced goods at "too-good-to-be-true" prices and scam to bid/buy those
> >> > items others thru eBay.
>
> >> > jc
>
> >> > --
>
> >> > "The nice thing about a e is you get to ride a lot
> >> > of different horses without having to own that many."
> >> > ~ Eileen Morgan of The e's Nest, PA

You see one -- just delete it.

and move on.



 
Date: 21 Feb 2007 11:36:15
From: Flasherly
Subject: Re: Beware of phony ebay "2nd chance offers"
On Feb 21, 11:12 am, JC Dill <jcd...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 17:04:17 -0500, "Jack Denver"
>
> <nunuv...@netscape.net> wrote:
> >I'm not sure how he manipulated the ebay process even to get my email but
> >there's some hole in the security that allows him to do this much.
>
> Nah, he just got lucky. These phish emails go out to every email they
> can find - odds are that some of those emails will be for people with
> an eBay account.
>
> If you want to have some fun with this guy, check out
>
> <http://bustedupcowgirl.com/scampage.html>
>
> and
>
> <http://www.zug.com/pranks/powerbook/>
>
> Note - do NOT under any circumstances fill out any forms on the
> "auction pages" or "payment pages" that would pay this guy. He's
> almost certainly going to try to con you into going to a link he
> provides that - upon first glance - looks like a genuine eBay page.
> The page will NOT be an eBay page and any information you enter on
> that page will not be sent to eBay, it will be sent to the scammer.
> Say bye-buh to your eBay account if you "login" to his scam page - he
> will change your email and password on that account and then list high
> priced goods at "too-good-to-be-true" prices and scam to bid/buy those
> items others thru eBay.
>

Even Amazon merchants can take a turn into the Twilight Zone. Looking
over a *new* LaPavoni Europicolla - what's this, $400, ummm... Run
the seller's account history, and someone w/ a complaint: "You took my
money and sold me a new model, but I opened the box and the damn
thing's old!" Seller replies - "People, don't listen to him. He's so
full of it. I'm a nice guy and the world's full of all kinds. --
This guy orders my new Pavoni, but sticks his old Pavoni in my box and
returns it to me as old. Plus, he's got the nerve to complain..." I
suppose item's returned, resolved and whatever, so then what happens
-- he lists same style machine again, a couple days after the
complaint, for new merchandise.

Flip that page, not one I'd have expected on Amazon. Ebay, maybe.
Severe discounts from solid sellers with historical account
transactions, a cottage shop storefront, large storage outlets,
returns and refurbs OK, depending on item. Always plastic monies -- a
CC is the last that's left if a deal turns odd. Rest is live and
learn, I'd think.



 
Date: 21 Feb 2007 08:12:45
From: JC Dill
Subject: Re: Beware of phony ebay "2nd chance offers"
On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 17:04:17 -0500, "Jack Denver"
<nunuvyer@netscape.net > wrote:

>I'm not sure how he manipulated the ebay process even to get my email but
>there's some hole in the security that allows him to do this much.

Nah, he just got lucky. These phish emails go out to every email they
can find - odds are that some of those emails will be for people with
an eBay account.

If you want to have some fun with this guy, check out

<http://bustedupcowgirl.com/scampage.html >

and

<http://www.zug.com/pranks/powerbook/ >

Note - do NOT under any circumstances fill out any forms on the
"auction pages" or "payment pages" that would pay this guy. He's
almost certainly going to try to con you into going to a link he
provides that - upon first glance - looks like a genuine eBay page.
The page will NOT be an eBay page and any information you enter on
that page will not be sent to eBay, it will be sent to the scammer.
Say bye-buh to your eBay account if you "login" to his scam page - he
will change your email and password on that account and then list high
priced goods at "too-good-to-be-true" prices and scam to bid/buy those
items others thru eBay.

jc

--

"The nice thing about a e is you get to ride a lot
of different horses without having to own that many."
~ Eileen Morgan of The e's Nest, PA


  
Date: 21 Feb 2007 14:29:40
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Beware of phony ebay "2nd chance offers"
No, no this not a random phishing type email. This was a "2nd chance offer "
on a specific auction where I was the 2nd place finisher. Now your ebay ID
is visible in the bidders page, and he was able to pick out likely
transactions from a "completed auctions" search, but ebay no longer allows
people who are not parties to a transaction to have access to the email
address of other ebay members - that's the part I can't figure out. Also
whatever he did allowed him to get my email address and my ebay ID but not
my name (one clue to fakeness is that real 2nd chance offers do have your
real name in them).





"JC Dill" <jcdill@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:throt2phv51bgg6tpgma7051tsn7t1j9jh@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 17:04:17 -0500, "Jack Denver"
> <nunuvyer@netscape.net> wrote:
>
>>I'm not sure how he manipulated the ebay process even to get my email but
>>there's some hole in the security that allows him to do this much.
>
> Nah, he just got lucky. These phish emails go out to every email they
> can find - odds are that some of those emails will be for people with
> an eBay account.
>
> If you want to have some fun with this guy, check out
>
> <http://bustedupcowgirl.com/scampage.html>
>
> and
>
> <http://www.zug.com/pranks/powerbook/>
>
> Note - do NOT under any circumstances fill out any forms on the
> "auction pages" or "payment pages" that would pay this guy. He's
> almost certainly going to try to con you into going to a link he
> provides that - upon first glance - looks like a genuine eBay page.
> The page will NOT be an eBay page and any information you enter on
> that page will not be sent to eBay, it will be sent to the scammer.
> Say bye-buh to your eBay account if you "login" to his scam page - he
> will change your email and password on that account and then list high
> priced goods at "too-good-to-be-true" prices and scam to bid/buy those
> items others thru eBay.
>
> jc
>
> --
>
> "The nice thing about a e is you get to ride a lot
> of different horses without having to own that many."
> ~ Eileen Morgan of The e's Nest, PA
>




   
Date: 22 Feb 2007 06:43:23
From: Mathew Hargreaves
Subject: Re: Beware of phony ebay "2nd chance offers"
Jack,

If your bidding identity is in his hands, all he has to do is look
you up with the bidder search. When the information comes up, there is a
link box to their email system to "Contact Member". He will not know
your name but it could look like a legitimate offer from the original
seller. Scams are a plenty.
Since it is likely to be a scam, forward that original email to
Spoof@ebay.com, and add a message that this looks to be a scam. Let them
do the research. Actually forward any messages to them.

CHEERS...Mathew

Jack Denver wrote:
>
> No, no this not a random phishing type email. This was a "2nd chance offer "
> on a specific auction where I was the 2nd place finisher. Now your ebay ID
> is visible in the bidders page, and he was able to pick out likely
> transactions from a "completed auctions" search, but ebay no longer allows
> people who are not parties to a transaction to have access to the email
> address of other ebay members - that's the part I can't figure out. Also
> whatever he did allowed him to get my email address and my ebay ID but not
> my name (one clue to fakeness is that real 2nd chance offers do have your
> real name in them).
>
> "JC Dill" <jcdill@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:throt2phv51bgg6tpgma7051tsn7t1j9jh@4ax.com...
> > On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 17:04:17 -0500, "Jack Denver"
> > <nunuvyer@netscape.net> wrote:
> >
> >>I'm not sure how he manipulated the ebay process even to get my email but
> >>there's some hole in the security that allows him to do this much.
> >
> > Nah, he just got lucky. These phish emails go out to every email they
> > can find - odds are that some of those emails will be for people with
> > an eBay account.
> >
> > If you want to have some fun with this guy, check out
> >
> > <http://bustedupcowgirl.com/scampage.html>
> >
> > and
> >
> > <http://www.zug.com/pranks/powerbook/>
> >
> > Note - do NOT under any circumstances fill out any forms on the
> > "auction pages" or "payment pages" that would pay this guy. He's
> > almost certainly going to try to con you into going to a link he
> > provides that - upon first glance - looks like a genuine eBay page.
> > The page will NOT be an eBay page and any information you enter on
> > that page will not be sent to eBay, it will be sent to the scammer.
> > Say bye-buh to your eBay account if you "login" to his scam page - he
> > will change your email and password on that account and then list high
> > priced goods at "too-good-to-be-true" prices and scam to bid/buy those
> > items others thru eBay.
> >
> > jc
> >
> > --
> >
> > "The nice thing about a e is you get to ride a lot
> > of different horses without having to own that many."
> > ~ Eileen Morgan of The e's Nest, PA
> >


    
Date: 22 Feb 2007 10:47:25
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Beware of phony ebay "2nd chance offers"
OK, that makes sense. I did forward the email to spoof@ebay.com and got
back the usual automated message. I suspect that they get millions of
these. I wish they had a different address for scams than they do for
phishing ... I get several rather obvious generic phishing messages every
day, but this is the first time someone has taken the trouble to try a
"tailor made" scam that requires a lot more effort and was (at first glance
at least) a lot more convincing as a result. I did not come close to being
taken in but someone who is less internet savvy might have fallen for this
because it looked very similar to a real 2nd chance offer.

In the meantime, my scammer appears to have disappeared - he no longer
answers my emails. I think these guys just bail out if the k does not
follow their template exactly, and move on to the next one. I asked him for
his address so I could "send him a mail order" and of course he wouldn't
give it.




"Mathew Hargreaves" <mathewdh@worldnet.att.net > wrote in message
news:45DD3B0D.57989F9E@worldnet.att.net...
> Jack,
>
> If your bidding identity is in his hands, all he has to do is look
> you up with the bidder search. When the information comes up, there is a
> link box to their email system to "Contact Member". He will not know
> your name but it could look like a legitimate offer from the original
> seller. Scams are a plenty.
> Since it is likely to be a scam, forward that original email to
> Spoof@ebay.com, and add a message that this looks to be a scam. Let them
> do the research. Actually forward any messages to them.
>
> CHEERS...Mathew
>
> Jack Denver wrote:
>>
>> No, no this not a random phishing type email. This was a "2nd chance
>> offer "
>> on a specific auction where I was the 2nd place finisher. Now your ebay
>> ID
>> is visible in the bidders page, and he was able to pick out likely
>> transactions from a "completed auctions" search, but ebay no longer
>> allows
>> people who are not parties to a transaction to have access to the email
>> address of other ebay members - that's the part I can't figure out. Also
>> whatever he did allowed him to get my email address and my ebay ID but
>> not
>> my name (one clue to fakeness is that real 2nd chance offers do have your
>> real name in them).
>>
>> "JC Dill" <jcdill@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:throt2phv51bgg6tpgma7051tsn7t1j9jh@4ax.com...
>> > On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 17:04:17 -0500, "Jack Denver"
>> > <nunuvyer@netscape.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >>I'm not sure how he manipulated the ebay process even to get my email
>> >>but
>> >>there's some hole in the security that allows him to do this much.
>> >
>> > Nah, he just got lucky. These phish emails go out to every email they
>> > can find - odds are that some of those emails will be for people with
>> > an eBay account.
>> >
>> > If you want to have some fun with this guy, check out
>> >
>> > <http://bustedupcowgirl.com/scampage.html>
>> >
>> > and
>> >
>> > <http://www.zug.com/pranks/powerbook/>
>> >
>> > Note - do NOT under any circumstances fill out any forms on the
>> > "auction pages" or "payment pages" that would pay this guy. He's
>> > almost certainly going to try to con you into going to a link he
>> > provides that - upon first glance - looks like a genuine eBay page.
>> > The page will NOT be an eBay page and any information you enter on
>> > that page will not be sent to eBay, it will be sent to the scammer.
>> > Say bye-buh to your eBay account if you "login" to his scam page - he
>> > will change your email and password on that account and then list high
>> > priced goods at "too-good-to-be-true" prices and scam to bid/buy those
>> > items others thru eBay.
>> >
>> > jc
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > "The nice thing about a e is you get to ride a lot
>> > of different horses without having to own that many."
>> > ~ Eileen Morgan of The e's Nest, PA
>> >




 
Date: 20 Feb 2007 14:36:07
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Beware of phony ebay "2nd chance offers"
On Feb 20, 5:04 pm, "Jack Denver" <nunuv...@netscape.net > wrote:
> Today I received a "2nd chance" offer to buy an item that I did not win on
> ebay. There were some (not so) subtle signs that the offer was not real
> (there is such a thing as a genuine official ebay 2nd chance offer but you
> should basically assume that all such offers are false until proven
> otherwise). I contacted the original seller via the Ebay "ask seller a
> question" function directly on the original auction page and he confirmed
> immediately that it was fake. The phony sellers (phony) name is the very
> Romanian sounding Costim Ionat Hristo. Romania is one of these places like
> Nigeria and Indonesia with a weak legal system and lots of underemployed
> people who have nothing better to do than run scams. I am going to play him
> further for a while in the hope of either getting more information as to his
> location and identity and learning more about how these frauds operate, or
> at the very least wasting his time.
>
> Below is his first reply after the intial contact. It will be interesting to
> see how he finishes the deal "thru ebay":
>
> "Hi,
> I will let it go for your last bid price and I will pay the shipping costs
> and insurance taxes.
> We will finish this deal only through eBay.
> They will hold your payment and release it to me only after you will
> receive, inspect and agree with the item.
> You'll have 5 days to inspect it.
> In order to speed up the things I will start the shipping in the same day
> I'll receive the payment confirmation.
> The delivery process to your location will take up to 6 days.
> Please provide me your full name and shipping address so we can get the ball
> rolling and I will contact eBay regarding our deal.
> After that they will send you the information of "how to purchase the item".
>
> Thanks "
>
> I of course sent him a phony name and address (one of the clues was that he
> did not have my real name - real ebay 2nd chance offers have your real name
> in them. Another clue is the "too good to be true" offer to pay shipping.)
> I'm not sure how he manipulated the ebay process even to get my email but
> there's some hole in the security that allows him to do this much.


this is phishing -- pure and simple.

dave