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Date: 16 Jan 2007 17:36:45
From: Bertie Doe
Subject: Bionic Zaffiro Marshall
In the Zaffiro PID review http://home.earthlink.net/~mrfuss/ the old vapor
bulb thermostat now contols the steaming.

Q1 Is the vapor bulb stat, the old adjustable coffee brewing stat?

Q2 When switching to sream, does the digi display still show rising
temerature?

Q3 Rather than retain the steaming stat, why not turn the PID set point up
to 140C or 150C, after you've pulled the brew shot? TIA

Bertie






 
Date: 16 Jan 2007 16:03:15
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Bionic Zaffiro Marshall
using a hole punch to place the controller lower in the unit

and insulating all / or part of the boiler lends to a neat install.
without a fan and without colossal heat losses.

or even easier? use >Ian's approach

dave
208



Bertie Doe wrote:
> "shall" <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net> wrote in message
> > That vapor bulb (my third) died, too. So I reconnected the original
> > click steaming thermostat, and it works just fine. When I click on the
> > steam switch, its thermostat takes over heating control from the PID,
> > which then only acts as a thermometer. I generally start steaming when
> > the PID indicates 135C. I switch it off the moment I am done frothing.
> >
> > This is much more efficient than adjusting PID settings, which I only
> > do when I switch blends or think they need a tweak.
> >
> > shall
>
> Thanks shall, if I go the PID route, I'll get a local electrician to
> oversee things which has to be better than the cost of shipping it around.
> There's one thing that puzzles me about the wiring re the vapor bulb. I
> don't know if you remember how things were set up prior to your PID. Power
> is taken in from the main 'power on' retro swith to terminal P1 on the vb
> stat. P1 has a double female connector and then takes another lead to
> another connector, situated approx rear of the brew lever. I can't figure
> out the purpose of this power lead from P1 to r/o brew lever - any ideas?
>
> Bertie



 
Date: 16 Jan 2007 23:00:31
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Bionic Zaffiro Marshall
On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 17:36:45 -0000, "Bertie Doe"
<montebrasite4@ntl.com > wrote:

>In the Zaffiro PID review http://home.earthlink.net/~mrfuss/ the old vapor
>bulb thermostat now contols the steaming.
>
>Q1 Is the vapor bulb stat, the old adjustable coffee brewing stat?
>
>Q2 When switching to sream, does the digi display still show rising
>temerature?
>
>Q3 Rather than retain the steaming stat, why not turn the PID set point up
>to 140C or 150C, after you've pulled the brew shot? TIA
>
>Bertie

That vapor bulb (my third) died, too. So I reconnected the original
click steaming thermostat, and it works just fine. When I click on the
steam switch, its thermostat takes over heating control from the PID,
which then only acts as a thermometer. I generally start steaming when
the PID indicates 135C. I switch it off the moment I am done frothing.

This is much more efficient than adjusting PID settings, which I only
do when I switch blends or think they need a tweak.

shall


  
Date: 16 Jan 2007 23:45:41
From: Bertie Doe
Subject: Re: Bionic Zaffiro Marshall

"shall" <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote in message
> That vapor bulb (my third) died, too. So I reconnected the original
> click steaming thermostat, and it works just fine. When I click on the
> steam switch, its thermostat takes over heating control from the PID,
> which then only acts as a thermometer. I generally start steaming when
> the PID indicates 135C. I switch it off the moment I am done frothing.
>
> This is much more efficient than adjusting PID settings, which I only
> do when I switch blends or think they need a tweak.
>
> shall

Thanks shall, if I go the PID route, I'll get a local electrician to
oversee things which has to be better than the cost of shipping it around.
There's one thing that puzzles me about the wiring re the vapor bulb. I
don't know if you remember how things were set up prior to your PID. Power
is taken in from the main 'power on' retro swith to terminal P1 on the vb
stat. P1 has a double female connector and then takes another lead to
another connector, situated approx rear of the brew lever. I can't figure
out the purpose of this power lead from P1 to r/o brew lever - any ideas?

Bertie




   
Date: 17 Jan 2007 00:37:06
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Bionic Zaffiro Marshall
On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 23:45:41 -0000, "Bertie Doe"
<montebrasite4@ntl.com > wrote:

>
>"shall" <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net> wrote in message
>> That vapor bulb (my third) died, too. So I reconnected the original
>> click steaming thermostat, and it works just fine. When I click on the
>> steam switch, its thermostat takes over heating control from the PID,
>> which then only acts as a thermometer. I generally start steaming when
>> the PID indicates 135C. I switch it off the moment I am done frothing.
>>
>> This is much more efficient than adjusting PID settings, which I only
>> do when I switch blends or think they need a tweak.
>>
>> shall
>
>Thanks shall, if I go the PID route, I'll get a local electrician to
>oversee things which has to be better than the cost of shipping it around.
>There's one thing that puzzles me about the wiring re the vapor bulb. I
>don't know if you remember how things were set up prior to your PID. Power
>is taken in from the main 'power on' retro swith to terminal P1 on the vb
>stat. P1 has a double female connector and then takes another lead to
>another connector, situated approx rear of the brew lever. I can't figure
>out the purpose of this power lead from P1 to r/o brew lever - any ideas?
>
>Bertie

None at all. Actually, I don't have a clue what you are talking about,
which is my shortcoming, not yours. Michael Teahan substantially
rewired my machine. The independent pump switch, for example, is a
real convenience when emptying the boiler for descaling. If you use
your imagination, you and your electrician could have some real fun.

shall


    
Date: 17 Jan 2007 19:49:00
From: Bertie Doe
Subject: Re: Bionic Zaffiro Marshall

"shall" <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote in message
news:snrqq2hh2es7s23u29gmchg2ce96bq6ifd@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 23:45:41 -0000, "Bertie Doe"
> <montebrasite4@ntl.com> wrote:
>
>> Power is taken in from the main 'power on' retro swith to terminal P1 on
>> the vb
>>stat. P1 has a double female connector and then takes another lead to
>>another connector, situated approx rear of the brew lever. I can't figure
>>out the purpose of this power lead from P1 to r/o brew lever - any ideas?
>>
>>Bertie
>
> None at all. Actually, I don't have a clue what you are talking about,
> which is my shortcoming, not yours. Michael Teahan substantially
> rewired my machine. The independent pump switch, for example, is a
> real convenience when emptying the boiler for descaling. If you use
> your imagination, you and your electrician could have some real fun.
>
> shall

It's possible that our electrics are configured differently. Your Zaff would
be drawing about 9amps, whereas the Zaff on 240v is about 5amps.Meanwhile
I'll have to be patient and wait for the electrician. Last time I descaled,
I got tiny silvery particles in suspension for a couple of days. Hope I
haven't removed the boiler lining - dunno if they electro-plate it or not.
Thanks
Bertie




 
Date: 16 Jan 2007 12:37:00
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Bionic Zaffiro Marshall
Oh I'm just referring to the placement of the controller in the hottest
part of the machine -- in this particular installation.


no reason why you cannot elevate the controller to whatever temp. you
want. but it would be very easy to leave it there and risk problems.
the cap tstat is moare thatn accurate enuf for steaming.

dave



  
Date: 16 Jan 2007 21:35:17
From: Bertie Doe
Subject: Re: Bionic Zaffiro Marshall

"daveb" <davebobblane@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1168979820.696142.318660@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> Oh I'm just referring to the placement of the controller in the hottest
> part of the machine -- in this particular installation.
> dave
>
I was hoping not to get sidetracked by the fan issue. However, you must
admit those external PID's are butt ugly. If avoiding this means fan
installation in my Zaff, then so be it.

Bertie




   
Date: 16 Jan 2007 15:11:27
From: I->Ian
Subject: Re: Bionic Zaffiro Marshall
On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 21:35:17 -0000, "Bertie Doe"
<montebrasite4@ntl.com > wrote:

>
>"daveb" <davebobblane@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1168979820.696142.318660@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>> Oh I'm just referring to the placement of the controller in the hottest
>> part of the machine -- in this particular installation.
>> dave
>>
>I was hoping not to get sidetracked by the fan issue. However, you must
>admit those external PID's are butt ugly. If avoiding this means fan
>installation in my Zaff, then so be it.
>
>Bertie
>

What about under the drip tray? I purloined the position from Ken Fox.
http://www.ielogical.com/coffee/PIDLoc2.JPG

DaveB supplied the PID and box.

You could get new feet to raise the unit a few mm if need be.


    
Date: 16 Jan 2007 23:26:18
From: Bertie Doe
Subject: Re: Bionic Zaffiro Marshall

"I- >Ian" <someone@nowhere.com> wrote in message > What about under the drip
tray? I purloined the position from Ken Fox.
> http://www.ielogical.com/coffee/PIDLoc2.JPG
>
> DaveB supplied the PID and box.
>
> You could get new feet to raise the unit a few mm if need be.

Yep, that's a lot neater than side-mounted.
Bertie




 
Date: 16 Jan 2007 10:01:51
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Bionic Zaffiro Marshall

Bertie Doe wrote:
> In the Zaffiro PID review http://home.earthlink.net/~mrfuss/ the old vapor
> bulb thermostat now contols the steaming.
>
> Q1 Is the vapor bulb stat, the old adjustable coffee brewing stat?
YES
>
> Q2 When switching to sream, does the digi display still show rising
> temerature?
YES
>
> Q3 Rather than retain the steaming stat, why not turn the PID set point up
> to 140C or 150C, after you've pulled the brew shot? TIA

you could do that. [and eliminate the fan and heat sink.]


dave 877 286 2833



  
Date: 16 Jan 2007 20:22:01
From: Bertie Doe
Subject: Re: Bionic Zaffiro Marshall

"daveb" <davebobblane@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1168970510.572892.132460@51g2000cwl.googlegroups.com...
>
> Bertie Doe wrote:
>> In the Zaffiro PID review http://home.earthlink.net/~mrfuss/ the old
>> vapor
>> bulb thermostat now contols the steaming.
>>
>> Q1 Is the vapor bulb stat, the old adjustable coffee brewing stat?
> YES
>>
>> Q2 When switching to sream, does the digi display still show rising
>> temerature?
> YES
>>
>> Q3 Rather than retain the steaming stat, why not turn the PID set point
>> up
>> to 140C or 150C, after you've pulled the brew shot? TIA
>
> you could do that. [and eliminate the fan and heat sink.]
>
How can it eliminate the fan?? Whether you use the vb stat or the PID to
steam at 150C.

Bertie