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Date: 25 Oct 2006 21:22:49
From: I->Ian
Subject: Boiler Insulation

After much searching this is the product used:

http://www.mcmaster.com/nav/enter.asp?partnum=87485K66&pagenum=3344&sesnextrep=626758411783952

FDA approved.
NO fibers or dust.

Odorless.
Drops the surface temperature by 55C / 100F.
Cuts easily with a sharp knife or scissors.

http://www.ielogical.com/coffee/BoilerInsul.JPG




 
Date: 26 Oct 2006 11:39:01
From: DavidMLewis
Subject: Re: Boiler Insulation

I- >Ian wrote:
> Drops the surface temperature by 55=B0C / 100=B0F.

Was that measured? I don't see any insulation values in the catalog.
TIA.

David



  
Date: 27 Oct 2006 17:35:15
From: I->Ian
Subject: Re: Boiler Insulation
On 26 Oct 2006 11:39:01 -0700, "DavidMLewis" <DavidMLewis@mac.com >
wrote:

>> Drops the surface temperature by 55C / 100F.
>
>Was that measured?

Yes, with K thermocouples between tank and insulation and under tie
wraps and with IR before and after.


   
Date: 27 Oct 2006 19:19:54
From: Dan Bollinger
Subject: Re: Boiler Insulation
>>> Drops the surface temperature by 55C / 100F.
>>
>>Was that measured?
>
> Yes, with K thermocouples between tank and insulation and under tie
> wraps and with IR before and after.

What am I missing here? I would put the TC on the OUTSIDE of the insulation to
measure the temperature drop. For what its worth, the external temperature of
the boiler would RAISE with the addition of insulation, all things being equal.

Dan



    
Date: 28 Oct 2006 00:20:44
From: I->Ian
Subject: Re: Boiler Insulation
On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 19:19:54 -0400, "Dan Bollinger"
<danNObollinger@insightSPAMbb.com > wrote:

>>>> Drops the surface temperature by 55C / 100F.
>>>
>>>Was that measured?
>>
>> Yes, with K thermocouples between tank and insulation and under tie
>> wraps and with IR before and after.
>
>What am I missing here? I would put the TC on the OUTSIDE of the insulation to
>measure the temperature drop.

Uh, "under tie wraps" is on the _OUTSIDE_ of the insulation.
http://www.ielogical.com/coffee/BoilerInsul.JPG shows the tie wraps on
the _OUTSIDE_ of the boiler. ;-)
To be perfectly clear :
TC 1 between boiler and boiler side of insulation
TC 2 between insulation and tie wrap on air side of insulation on
rear, non group, side of boiler.

>For what its worth, the external temperature of
>the boiler would RAISE with the addition of insulation, all things being equal.
>

Probably so, but I set boiler temp lower with PID than with pStat.

IR measurements made on side of boiler _AWAY_ from thermosyphon.
Thermosyphon side of outside of insulation gets warmer [scientific
term] than opposite side due to heat radiated by thermosyphon and
reflected from rear of front [where the group [where the coffee water
comes out] is mounted] panel of machine. WHEW!!! ;-)

Note : Measurements made with shell of machine removed. There is
likely to be some variation in temperature difference due to 'cover
effects.' I'm planning a white paper with Dave, Robert, Ken and Jim on
the effects on shots of 'cover effects'... ~<:-P


     
Date: 28 Oct 2006 10:55:18
From: Dan Bollinger
Subject: Re: Boiler Insulation
> Uh, "under tie wraps" is on the _OUTSIDE_ of the insulation.

Thanks for the clarification. Dan




 
Date: 25 Oct 2006 18:14:32
From: Simpson
Subject: Re: Boiler Insulation
In article <cnkvj2pr6ltrq9fpodu3hooorg5tugs7np@4ax.com >,=20
someone@nowhere.com says...
>=20
> After much searching this is the product used:
>=20
> http://www.mcmaster.com/nav/enter.asp?partnum=3D87485K66&pagenum=3D3344&s=
esnextrep=3D626758411783952
>=20
> FDA approved.
> NO fibers or dust.
>=20
> Odorless.
> Drops the surface temperature by 55=B0C / 100=B0F.
> Cuts easily with a sharp knife or scissors.
>=20
> http://www.ielogical.com/coffee/BoilerInsul.JPG
>=20

Yee gawds! 136 bucks for a 24" by 24" piece?! I don't think so.

Thanks for the link, though.

Ted
--=20
email me at:
tee en jay ess eye em pee ess oh en one-the-number (at) cee oh em cee a=20
ess tee (dot) en ee tee

ANY other email addie will probably mean I spam-killed your message=20
unread, by accident, really.


  
Date: 25 Oct 2006 20:31:03
From: DougW
Subject: Re: Boiler Insulation
Simpson wrote:
> someone says...
>>
>> After much searching this is the product used:
>>
>> http://www.mcmaster.com/nav/enter.asp?partnum=87485K66&pagenum=3344&sesnextrep=626758411783952
>>
>> FDA approved.
>> NO fibers or dust.
>>
>> Odorless.
>> Drops the surface temperature by 55C / 100F.
>> Cuts easily with a sharp knife or scissors.
>>
>> http://www.ielogical.com/coffee/BoilerInsul.JPG
>>
>
> Yee gawds! 136 bucks for a 24" by 24" piece?! I don't think so.
>
> Thanks for the link, though.

I wonder if your basic sillycone rubber counter protector would work?
They are safe up to almost 500F and are food grade. Although they
are thin. I use a silicone oven mit for moving the wood box in my
smoker and it's upwards of 240F.
http://www.kohls.com/products/product_page_multiple1.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=141645247

--
DougW




   
Date: 26 Oct 2006 05:38:54
From: I->Ian
Subject: Re: Boiler Insulation
On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 20:31:03 -0500, "DougW"
<post.replies@invalid.address > wrote:

>
>I wonder if your basic sillycone rubber counter protector would work?
>They are safe up to almost 500F and are food grade. Although they
>are thin. I use a silicone oven mit for moving the wood box in my
>smoker and it's upwards of 240F.
>http://www.kohls.com/products/product_page_multiple1.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=141645247
>
>--
>DougW

Didn't evaluate these, but we have some siliicone cooking sheets and
they are solid, with no bubbles, so not sure how well they would
insulate.


  
Date: 25 Oct 2006 22:56:18
From: I->Ian
Subject: Re: Boiler Insulation
On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 18:14:32 -0400, Simpson <nospam@nospam.spam >
wrote:

>Yee gawds! 136 bucks for a 24" by 24" piece?! I don't think so.

I'm looking to break even in 2020.

It's the only thing I could find that provided adequate insulation and
had no issues of smell, fibres, density, flexibility, ease of use,
resistance to smog, rot, etc., etc.

Believe me, I evaluated everything from glass fibre to wool to wood to
neoprene to felt to styrofoam to urethane foam to foil 'bubblewrap' to
ceramic mat to ...

I have a 24 x 17 piece with a 6" diameter hole in one corner if anyone
is interested. Will easily do another machine.

Ian "will work for espresso"
iealesU.N.@ielogical.com
Get rid of the U.N.


   
Date: 25 Oct 2006 17:38:08
From: Cordovero
Subject: Re: Boiler Insulation
What's wrong with the professional grade ceramic felt? Cuts with scissors,
amazing insulation cabalities, 25 bucks for a few square feet.

C

"I- >Ian" <someone@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:3qpvj290ue438c1mauq0ro5p7cii2gv17v@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 18:14:32 -0400, Simpson <nospam@nospam.spam>
> wrote:
>
>>Yee gawds! 136 bucks for a 24" by 24" piece?! I don't think so.
>
> I'm looking to break even in 2020.
>
> It's the only thing I could find that provided adequate insulation and
> had no issues of smell, fibres, density, flexibility, ease of use,
> resistance to smog, rot, etc., etc.
>
> Believe me, I evaluated everything from glass fibre to wool to wood to
> neoprene to felt to styrofoam to urethane foam to foil 'bubblewrap' to
> ceramic mat to ...
>
> I have a 24 x 17 piece with a 6" diameter hole in one corner if anyone
> is interested. Will easily do another machine.
>
> Ian "will work for espresso"
> iealesU.N.@ielogical.com
> Get rid of the U.N.




    
Date: 26 Oct 2006 05:34:50
From: I->Ian
Subject: Re: Boiler Insulation
On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 17:38:08 -0700, "Cordovero"
<cordoveroremovexxx@yahooxxx.com > wrote:

>What's wrong with the professional grade ceramic felt? Cuts with scissors,
>amazing insulation cabalities, 25 bucks for a few square feet.
>
>C

Not sure if this is the same thing, but it didn't give me warm and
fuzzies for ceramics
http://www.unifrax.com/MSDSAPPR.NSF/By+Trade+Name/ED9C6148A864124A85256A11006DCABF?OpenDocument


     
Date: 26 Oct 2006 06:44:50
From: Cordovero
Subject: Re: Boiler Insulation
I appreciate the link, but I'm not working with it on a daily basis. If I
had had the link before, I would have worn a mask while cutting (for five
seconds) the felt, and I would have wrapped the boiler outside instead of in
the kitchen. Otherwise, I don't think any particles are shedding inside the
Giotto.

I admit that when cutting it, there probably were invisible particles. But
now?

Anyway, it's very good insulation, and easy to cut relatively exactly.

C

"I- >Ian" <someone@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:g0i0k29qbpoql49ojdf9e7o1eoqvlk0784@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 17:38:08 -0700, "Cordovero"
> <cordoveroremovexxx@yahooxxx.com> wrote:
>
>>What's wrong with the professional grade ceramic felt? Cuts with
>>scissors,
>>amazing insulation cabalities, 25 bucks for a few square feet.
>>
>>C
>
> Not sure if this is the same thing, but it didn't give me warm and
> fuzzies for ceramics
> http://www.unifrax.com/MSDSAPPR.NSF/By+Trade+Name/ED9C6148A864124A85256A11006DCABF?OpenDocument




    
Date: 25 Oct 2006 19:04:39
From: Cordovero
Subject: Re: Boiler Insulation
The industrial ceramic felt I'm talking about has pictures and links to the
distributor at:
http://coffeegeek.com/forums/members/buysell/243921

C

"Cordovero" <cordoveroremovexxx@yahooxxx.com > wrote in message
news:ehp00u$d99$1@news.Stanford.EDU...
> What's wrong with the professional grade ceramic felt? Cuts with
> scissors, amazing insulation cabalities, 25 bucks for a few square feet.
>
> C
>
> "I->Ian" <someone@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:3qpvj290ue438c1mauq0ro5p7cii2gv17v@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 18:14:32 -0400, Simpson <nospam@nospam.spam>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Yee gawds! 136 bucks for a 24" by 24" piece?! I don't think so.
>>
>> I'm looking to break even in 2020.
>>
>> It's the only thing I could find that provided adequate insulation and
>> had no issues of smell, fibres, density, flexibility, ease of use,
>> resistance to smog, rot, etc., etc.
>>
>> Believe me, I evaluated everything from glass fibre to wool to wood to
>> neoprene to felt to styrofoam to urethane foam to foil 'bubblewrap' to
>> ceramic mat to ...
>>
>> I have a 24 x 17 piece with a 6" diameter hole in one corner if anyone
>> is interested. Will easily do another machine.
>>
>> Ian "will work for espresso"
>> iealesU.N.@ielogical.com
>> Get rid of the U.N.
>
>




  
Date: 25 Oct 2006 17:12:10
From: Paul Sack
Subject: Re: Boiler Insulation
Simpson <nospam@nospam.spam > writes:

> Yee gawds! 136 bucks for a 24" by 24" piece?! I don't think so.
>
> Thanks for the link, though.

Yeah, they had other stuff on that page that might work for much less
money. I don't think it needs to be FDA approved unless it's *inside*
the boiler.


 
Date: 25 Oct 2006 15:13:08
From: Erik Groomer
Subject: Re: Boiler Insulation
Thanks for the info. Are you in Eugene? I notice your link to Stefano's
Espresso Care. Do you know him?
I- >Ian wrote:
> After much searching this is the product used:
>
> http://www.mcmaster.com/nav/enter.asp?partnum=3D87485K66&pagenum=3D3344&s=
esnextrep=3D626758411783952
>
> FDA approved.
> NO fibers or dust.
>
> Odorless.
> Drops the surface temperature by 55=B0C / 100=B0F.
> Cuts easily with a sharp knife or scissors.
>=20
> http://www.ielogical.com/coffee/BoilerInsul.JPG



  
Date: 25 Oct 2006 22:27:19
From: I->Ian
Subject: Re: Boiler Insulation
On 25 Oct 2006 15:13:08 -0700, "Erik Groomer"
<ViridianCoffee@gmail.com > wrote:

> Are you in Eugene?
Los Angeles

>I notice your link to Stefano's
>Espresso Care. Do you know him?
Only as a vendor and an absolute prince