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Date: 16 Sep 2007 00:47:10
From: bob prohaska's usenet account
Subject: Boilerless espresso machine?
Hi all,

I'm finding I almost never use the boiler on my old Olympia Coffex.
Since it's been the boiler that has caused most of the troubles
the machine has given me, I'm wondering if anyone makes a compact
single-group machine that has no boiler.

Any ideas?

Thanks for reading,

bob prohaska






 
Date: 20 Sep 2007 17:21:44
From: Travesso
Subject: Re: Boilerless espresso machine?
On Sep 19, 6:58 am, r...@math.hawaii.NOSPAM.edu (D. Ross) wrote:
> Travesso <cpaso...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>


 
Date: 19 Sep 2007 13:14:58
From: pedxing
Subject: Re: Boilerless espresso machine?
On Sep 16, 2:48 pm, "Dan Bollinger" <danNObollin...@insightSPAMbb.com >
wrote:
> Even a LaPavonilever machine has a boiler. Of course, most of the reason
> espresso machines have boilers is to create steam for frothing. As far as
> making espresso, you only need a water heater.
>
> Even so, the difference between a water heater and boiler isn't very much. Most
> share the same components, and hence the same failures. Even water heaters have
> safety valves in case the pressure gets too high.
>
> I wonder if you couldn't hack the LaPavoniso you can pour hot water into it
> from a tea kettle?

Probably not practical (as someone else pointed out), but it got me
thinking about the problem of temp control on LPs. You probably could
set up a La Pavoni (ie., Europicolla) with a sort of hybrid PID setup:

Use the built in pstat in "normal mode" to build up boiler pressure
for getting water to the group head. Then, switch control to a PID
to get to the correct water temperature, and pull the shot. Switch
back to the pstat if you need steam and/or to get the pressure back
up.

I don't have an extra couple hundred $ to drop on a PID/SSR to try
this out, but it seems like it could work. Any ideas why it wouldn't?

pedxing



  
Date: 19 Sep 2007 23:08:45
From: Donn Cave
Subject: Re: Boilerless espresso machine?
Quoth pedxing <pedxing@gmail.com >:
...


   
Date: 19 Sep 2007 23:03:17
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: Boilerless espresso machine?
On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 23:08:45 -0000, "Donn Cave" <donn@avvanta.com >
wrote:

>Could be worse, though. If the modern refrigerator had come a little
>earlier, we might now be obliged to combine not only espresso and
>steaming in the same device, but also cold milk storage, adding another
>incompatible function by the same strained logic.


that's available in several commercial superautos...


  
Date: 19 Sep 2007 09:28:02
From: Moka Java
Subject: Re: Boilerless espresso machine?
pedxing wrote:

> Probably not practical (as someone else pointed out), but it got me
> thinking about the problem of temp control on LPs. You probably could
> set up a La Pavoni (ie., Europicolla) with a sort of hybrid PID setup:
>
> Use the built in pstat in "normal mode" to build up boiler pressure
> for getting water to the group head. Then, switch control to a PID
> to get to the correct water temperature, and pull the shot. Switch
> back to the pstat if you need steam and/or to get the pressure back
> up.
>
> I don't have an extra couple hundred $ to drop on a PID/SSR

You should be able to get a PID, SSR and a TC for much less than $100
these days.

to try
> this out, but it seems like it could work. Any ideas why it wouldn't?

Once all that metal and water gets heated up it will take a while for it
to cool down. You could try an ice pack.

R "it might help with the headache" TF


 
Date: 17 Sep 2007 12:15:37
From:
Subject: Re: Boilerless espresso machine?
On Sep 16, 9:44 am, "Robert Harmon" <Texas_Cof...@earthlink.net >
wrote:
> I doubt the LP would work without steam pressure forcing hot water into the
> pump chamber? Of course there are ways around this, but all involve
> pressurizing the boiler in some way; direct plumbing, external pump, etc.
> I'd like to have a Gaggia Achille to tear apart; I like the idea of a heat
> exchanger in a lever machine, but I'd have to see how it's implemented. If
> the levered pump is actually forcing cold water thru the HX, as happens with
> pump HX's, then the machine shows promise.
> --
> Robert Harmon
> --http://www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj- My coffee pages.
>
> http://www.tinyurl.com/2tnv87- My 'Guidelines For Newbies' page.
>
> http://www.tinyurl.com/2cr3e2- I have things for sale here."Dan Bollinger" <danNObollin...@insightSPAMbb.com> wrote in message
>
> news:EcmdnR_FYo_Ru3DbnZ2dnUVZ_oCvnZ2d@insightbb.com...
>
> > Even a La Pavoni lever machine has a boiler. Of course, most of the
> > reason espresso machines have boilers is to create steam for frothing. As
> > far as making espresso, you only need a water heater.
>
> > Even so, the difference between a water heater and boiler isn't very much.
> > Most share the same components, and hence the same failures. Even water
> > heaters have safety valves in case the pressure gets too high.
>
> > I wonder if you couldn't hack the La Pavoni so you can pour hot water into
> > it from a tea kettle?
>
> > Dan
>
> > "bob prohaska's usenet account" <b...@www.zefox.net> wrote in message
> >news:i2%Gi.4509$7P7.2796@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net...
> >> Hi all,
>
> >> I'm finding I almost never use the boiler on my old Olympia Coffex.
> >> Since it's been the boiler that has caused most of the troubles
> >> the machine has given me, I'm wondering if anyone makes a compact
> >> single-group machine that has no boiler.
>
> >> Any ideas?
>
> >> Thanks for reading,
>
> >> bob prohaska

?



 
Date: 16 Sep 2007 17:19:56
From: Travesso
Subject: Re: Boilerless espresso machine?
On Sep 16, 1:35 pm, Moka Java <rtwatc...@fishyahoo.com > wrote:
> bob prohaska's usenet account wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
>
> > I'm finding I almost never use the boiler on my old Olympia Coffex.
> > Since it's been the boiler that has caused most of the troubles
> > the machine has given me, I'm wondering if anyone makes a compact
> > single-group machine that has no boiler.
>
> > Any ideas?
>
> > Thanks for reading,
>
> > bob prohaska
>
> I'm not sure I understand the question. What do you mean by "boiler"?
> I can't seem to find a picture or a good description of the Olympia
> Coffex on the web so I'm not sure how to help you. What problems have
> you had?
>
> R "no pressure" TF

It looks like a Pavoni http://www.olympia-express.ch/default.htm



  
Date: 17 Sep 2007 01:33:16
From: bob prohaska's usenet account
Subject: Re: Boilerless espresso machine?
The machine resembles an Olympia Maximatic, except that it lacks the
pressure gauge. http://www.olympia-express.ch/default.htm and go to
"New Products" in the left hand frame.

The problems so far have been a burned out heater and now a small leak
in the silver-soldered joint between the boiler body and the bottom
flange. It'll be a real pain to fix, for now I'm just living with it
and thinking about a replacement.

The design uses a heat exchanger with the pump picking up cold water
from the tank and driving it through the heat exchanger, which is inside
the boiler, presumably for thermal inertia's sake. For the low usage
that it gets I really doubt the thermal inertia is needed (two or three
shots in the morning, one at noon).

It seems to me that a small cartridge heater (Watlow or equivalent)
pressed into a block of metal with the water tube silver-soldered
to the outside would give amply fast response. Hell, you could even
skip the metal block and braze everything directly to the heater,
including the thermocouple.

Apart from the boiler trouble the only ills have been two failed
pumps. The machine is nicely-sized for a home setup and makes
good coffee.

I'm a little surprised at the number of (occasionally tangential)
replies, thanks for all your ideas!

bob prohaska



  
Date: 16 Sep 2007 21:33:12
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Boilerless espresso machine?

"Travesso" <cpasoren@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1189988396.039426.76470@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> It looks like a Pavoni http://www.olympia-express.ch/default.htm

No it don't - the Cremina is the manual lever. The Coffex was a pump machine
and looked similar to this:

http://www.olympia-express.ch/img/NewProducts/big/maximatic2003_big.jpg






 
Date: 16 Sep 2007 17:18:10
From: Travesso
Subject: Re: Boilerless espresso machine?
On Sep 16, 12:43 pm, "Dan Bollinger"
<danNObollin...@insightSPAMbb.com > wrote:
> Interesting, if so, that means the lever/piston pump is double-action, that is,
> it can suck water up, then pressurize it on the exhaust. This would suggest that
> you could PID your machine to provid just the right temperature water, and that
> you could cycle your pump a few times with no coffee in the PF to preheat the
> group. Pretty cool! Dan
>
>
>
> > I'm completely new to my LaPeppina, but I think from what I've been
> > able to figure out so far, the water feeds into the piston chamber
> > without pressure. I was unsure of this, until I found that I can pull
> > the same volume of water through the group even if the top is
> > completely off the kettle on top.
>
> > I don't know what else that tells anyone about the need for steam
> > pressure in regard to brewing, but I thought it might add to the
> > discussion....
>
> > SJM- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I don't think so. Take the cap of the boiler and see what you get.



  
Date: 19 Sep 2007 10:58:55
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: Boilerless espresso machine?
Travesso <cpasoren@hotmail.com > wrote:



 
Date: 16 Sep 2007 17:16:09
From: Travesso
Subject: Re: Boilerless espresso machine?
On Sep 16, 11:09 am, "Jack Denver" <nunuv...@netscape.net > wrote:
> Of course you are using the boiler - otherwise you'd be brewing with cold
> water. I assume you mean that you aren't using the steam wand.
>
> Some machines have a "thermoblock" which heat the water "on the fly" on the
> way to the brew head rather than storing preheated water in a tank (aka
> boiler). While in theory this could work, most of the executions have been
> on the cheap side and not that good.
>
> "bob prohaska's usenet account" <b...@www.zefox.net> wrote in messagenews:i2%Gi.4509$7P7.2796@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net...
>
>
>
> > Hi all,
>
> > I'm finding I almost never use the boiler on my old Olympia Coffex.
> > Since it's been the boiler that has caused most of the troubles
> > the machine has given me, I'm wondering if anyone makes a compact
> > single-group machine that has no boiler.
>
> > Any ideas?
>
> > Thanks for reading,
>
> > bob prohaska- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I have mentioned this a few times, but Illy thinks that if the
pressure is high enough, you can make espresso with cold water??????



 
Date: 16 Sep 2007 17:13:29
From: Travesso
Subject: Re: Boilerless espresso machine?
On Sep 16, 10:44 am, "Robert Harmon" <Texas_Cof...@earthlink.net >
wrote:
> I doubt the LP would work without steam pressure forcing hot water into the
> pump chamber? Of course there are ways around this, but all involve
> pressurizing the boiler in some way; direct plumbing, external pump, etc.
> I'd like to have a Gaggia Achille to tear apart; I like the idea of a heat
> exchanger in a lever machine, but I'd have to see how it's implemented. If
> the levered pump is actually forcing cold water thru the HX, as happens with
> pump HX's, then the machine shows promise.
> --
> Robert Harmon
> --http://www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj- My coffee pages.
>
> http://www.tinyurl.com/2tnv87- My 'Guidelines For Newbies' page.
>
> http://www.tinyurl.com/2cr3e2- I have things for sale here."Dan Bollinger" <danNObollin...@insightSPAMbb.com> wrote in message
>
> news:EcmdnR_FYo_Ru3DbnZ2dnUVZ_oCvnZ2d@insightbb.com...
>
>
>
> > Even a La Pavoni lever machine has a boiler. Of course, most of the
> > reason espresso machines have boilers is to create steam for frothing. As
> > far as making espresso, you only need a water heater.
>
> > Even so, the difference between a water heater and boiler isn't very much.
> > Most share the same components, and hence the same failures. Even water
> > heaters have safety valves in case the pressure gets too high.
>
> > I wonder if you couldn't hack the La Pavoni so you can pour hot water into
> > it from a tea kettle?
>
> > Dan
>
> > "bob prohaska's usenet account" <b...@www.zefox.net> wrote in message
> >news:i2%Gi.4509$7P7.2796@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net...
> >> Hi all,
>
> >> I'm finding I almost never use the boiler on my old Olympia Coffex.
> >> Since it's been the boiler that has caused most of the troubles
> >> the machine has given me, I'm wondering if anyone makes a compact
> >> single-group machine that has no boiler.
>
> >> Any ideas?
>
> >> Thanks for reading,
>
> >> bob prohaska- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

You are exactly right, La Pavoni uses the pressure to get the water
into the portafilter. I don't think that the boiler is UL certified
for that much pressure. I tool off the glass tube on my La Pavoni and
pressurized it to 250 PSI. It held up great, and made a great shot.
I used the lever only to open and close the hole.
The other problem is that the boiler is a huge heat sink. You will
have to pour boiling water in and out of the unit 8 times to get hot
enough water.



 
Date: 16 Sep 2007 13:35:11
From: Moka Java
Subject: Re: Boilerless espresso machine?
bob prohaska's usenet account wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm finding I almost never use the boiler on my old Olympia Coffex.
> Since it's been the boiler that has caused most of the troubles
> the machine has given me, I'm wondering if anyone makes a compact
> single-group machine that has no boiler.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Thanks for reading,
>
> bob prohaska
>
>

I'm not sure I understand the question. What do you mean by "boiler"?
I can't seem to find a picture or a good description of the Olympia
Coffex on the web so I'm not sure how to help you. What problems have
you had?

R "no pressure" TF


  
Date: 16 Sep 2007 17:40:07
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Boilerless espresso machine?
IIRC this was more or less the same machine as the "Maximatic" -
http://www.1st-line.com/machines/home_mod/olympia/olympia_maximatic_espresso_machines.htm

A sorta hybrid - basically a lever machine (Olympia Cremina) w. a pump
added. But a single boiler/ single temp rang, no HX. Like a Pavoni
Europiccola. but with a pump instead of a lever.

Why this is worth $3k nowadays beats the hell out of me. I bought my
Cremina for $100 on ebay and sold it for a little more . Should kept it -
these things have been going up in value.


"Moka Java" <rtwatches@fishyahoo.com > wrote in message
news:5l57mdF6ebu7U1@mid.individual.net...
> bob prohaska's usenet account wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I'm finding I almost never use the boiler on my old Olympia Coffex.
>> Since it's been the boiler that has caused most of the troubles
>> the machine has given me, I'm wondering if anyone makes a compact
>> single-group machine that has no boiler.
>>
>> Any ideas?
>>
>> Thanks for reading,
>>
>> bob prohaska
>>
>>
>
> I'm not sure I understand the question. What do you mean by "boiler"? I
> can't seem to find a picture or a good description of the Olympia Coffex
> on the web so I'm not sure how to help you. What problems have you had?
>
> R "no pressure" TF
>




   
Date: 17 Sep 2007 10:57:32
From: Neal Reid
Subject: Re: Boilerless espresso machine?
In article <5tSdnYXcMMAqP3DbnZ2dnUVZ_tKinZ2d@comcast.com >,
"Jack Denver" <nunuvyer@netscape.net > wrote:

> IIRC this was more or less the same machine as the "Maximatic" -
> http://www.1st-line.com/machines/home_mod/olympia/olympia_maximatic_espresso_m
> achines.htm
The original Maximatic had a short but high rolling life when
Zabar's found it to be (far and away) the best machine for home
use in the early '80's.

Olympia went through hard times and it was discontinued.
> A sorta hybrid - basically a lever machine (Olympia Cremina) w. a pump
> added. But a single boiler/ single temp rang, no HX. Like a Pavoni
> Europiccola. but with a pump instead of a lever.
It was/is an HX machine (external evidence being no brew/steam
switch, internal evidence being:
120 1 HEAT EXCHANGE 04.1544.00.00
part 120 in the parts list (the water path in this machine is odd
in my experience; everything's at the TOP of the boiler, which may
explain why the OP went through 2 heaters - it is VERY sensitive
to low water level, exacerbated by the fact the boiler is manual
fill; you have to wait for it to cool, remove the boiler top and
fill)

It was recently reborn with the addition of a pressure gauge at 4+
times the price.

I think,when the OP stated he rarely uses the boiler, he means he
doesn't steam...

--
M for N in address to mail reply


    
Date: 17 Sep 2007 20:46:07
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Boilerless espresso machine?
Yr. right about the HX. I confused myself. It has a vertical boiler like
the Pavoni and Cremina and a screw cap on the boiler - I guess there's no
provision for filling the steam boiler with the pump, only from the top when
the machine is cold. No auto fill or fill switch either.

IIRC, it was the NYTimes that top rated the Olympias and Zabars carried
them, were the exclusive agents at one point.

I just searched the NYTimes archive (which BTW will be free starting
tomorrow). There was a roundup review on 8/1/79 and the Cremina (lever)
gets #1 and the Maximatic is #4.




"Neal Reid" <NealReid@Nagma.ca > wrote in message
news:NealReid-FC9CC4.10573117092007@ispnews.usenetserver.com...
> In article <5tSdnYXcMMAqP3DbnZ2dnUVZ_tKinZ2d@comcast.com>,
> "Jack Denver" <nunuvyer@netscape.net> wrote:
>
>> IIRC this was more or less the same machine as the "Maximatic" -
>> http://www.1st-line.com/machines/home_mod/olympia/olympia_maximatic_espresso_m
>> achines.htm
> The original Maximatic had a short but high rolling life when
> Zabar's found it to be (far and away) the best machine for home
> use in the early '80's.
>
> Olympia went through hard times and it was discontinued.
>> A sorta hybrid - basically a lever machine (Olympia Cremina) w. a pump
>> added. But a single boiler/ single temp rang, no HX. Like a Pavoni
>> Europiccola. but with a pump instead of a lever.
> It was/is an HX machine (external evidence being no brew/steam
> switch, internal evidence being:
> 120 1 HEAT EXCHANGE 04.1544.00.00
> part 120 in the parts list (the water path in this machine is odd
> in my experience; everything's at the TOP of the boiler, which may
> explain why the OP went through 2 heaters - it is VERY sensitive
> to low water level, exacerbated by the fact the boiler is manual
> fill; you have to wait for it to cool, remove the boiler top and
> fill)
>
> It was recently reborn with the addition of a pressure gauge at 4+
> times the price.
>
> I think,when the OP stated he rarely uses the boiler, he means he
> doesn't steam...
>
> --
> M for N in address to mail reply




     
Date: 18 Sep 2007 14:54:10
From: Neal Reid
Subject: Re: Boilerless espresso machine?
In article <5vadnf2PqY5SgnLbnZ2dnUVZ_uWlnZ2d@comcast.com >,
"Jack Denver" <nunuvyer@netscape.net > wrote:

> Yr. right about the HX. I confused myself. It has a vertical boiler like
> the Pavoni and Cremina and a screw cap on the boiler - I guess there's no
> provision for filling the steam boiler with the pump, only from the top when
> the machine is cold. No auto fill or fill switch either.
Which turns out to be more of a PITA than you'd think. I liked the
machine as it had all the 'goodness' of an HX put was small enough
to travel with (when driving).
> IIRC, it was the NYTimes that top rated the Olympias and Zabars carried
> them, were the exclusive agents at one point.
I was going from memory - and what I remember was the big splash
in the Zabar's coffee side (do they still have the separate coffee
shop? It's been some years...) saying how they'd tried N machines,
decided Olympia was the best "Home" machine - choose the Maximatic
if you didn't want to hand pump, else the Cremina.
> I just searched the NYTimes archive (which BTW will be free starting
> tomorrow). There was a roundup review on 8/1/79 and the Cremina (lever)
> gets #1 and the Maximatic is #4.
I thought it was '80 rather than '79 (I was there for MOMA full of
Picasso); perhaps the hype carried over > 4 months.

In all, the machine was a joy. I will find the energy to rebuild
it someday!

--
M for N in address to mail reply


 
Date: 16 Sep 2007 08:55:19
From: SJM
Subject: Re: Boilerless espresso machine?
On Sep 16, 8:45 am, "Dan Bollinger" <danNObollin...@insightSPAMbb.com >
wrote:
> I was thinking along the lines of using gravity to accomplish that, putting a
> funnel/reservoir above the machine piped into the piston chamber. If I recall,
> early espresso machines had gravity feed water from heated water tanks (not
> boilers). Dan
>
> >I doubt the LP would work without steam pressure forcing hot water into the
> >pump chamber? Of course there are ways around this, but all involve
> >pressurizing the boiler in some way; direct plumbing, external pump, etc.

I'm completely new to my LaPeppina, but I think from what I've been
able to figure out so far, the water feeds into the piston chamber
without pressure. I was unsure of this, until I found that I can pull
the same volume of water through the group even if the top is
completely off the kettle on top.

I don't know what else that tells anyone about the need for steam
pressure in regard to brewing, but I thought it might add to the
discussion....

SJM



  
Date: 19 Sep 2007 01:20:25
From: Donn Cave
Subject: Re: Boilerless espresso machine?
Quoth SJM <cajamadimail-google@yahoo.com >:
...


  
Date: 16 Sep 2007 12:43:56
From: Dan Bollinger
Subject: Re: Boilerless espresso machine?
Interesting, if so, that means the lever/piston pump is double-action, that is,
it can suck water up, then pressurize it on the exhaust. This would suggest that
you could PID your machine to provid just the right temperature water, and that
you could cycle your pump a few times with no coffee in the PF to preheat the
group. Pretty cool! Dan


> I'm completely new to my LaPeppina, but I think from what I've been
> able to figure out so far, the water feeds into the piston chamber
> without pressure. I was unsure of this, until I found that I can pull
> the same volume of water through the group even if the top is
> completely off the kettle on top.
>
> I don't know what else that tells anyone about the need for steam
> pressure in regard to brewing, but I thought it might add to the
> discussion....
>
> SJM
>



 
Date: 16 Sep 2007 11:09:57
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Boilerless espresso machine?
Of course you are using the boiler - otherwise you'd be brewing with cold
water. I assume you mean that you aren't using the steam wand.

Some machines have a "thermoblock" which heat the water "on the fly" on the
way to the brew head rather than storing preheated water in a tank (aka
boiler). While in theory this could work, most of the executions have been
on the cheap side and not that good.


"bob prohaska's usenet account" <bp@www.zefox.net > wrote in message
news:i2%Gi.4509$7P7.2796@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net...
> Hi all,
>
> I'm finding I almost never use the boiler on my old Olympia Coffex.
> Since it's been the boiler that has caused most of the troubles
> the machine has given me, I'm wondering if anyone makes a compact
> single-group machine that has no boiler.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Thanks for reading,
>
> bob prohaska
>
>
>




 
Date: 16 Sep 2007 08:48:08
From: Dan Bollinger
Subject: Re: Boilerless espresso machine?
Even a La Pavoni lever machine has a boiler. Of course, most of the reason
espresso machines have boilers is to create steam for frothing. As far as
making espresso, you only need a water heater.

Even so, the difference between a water heater and boiler isn't very much. Most
share the same components, and hence the same failures. Even water heaters have
safety valves in case the pressure gets too high.

I wonder if you couldn't hack the La Pavoni so you can pour hot water into it
from a tea kettle?

Dan

"bob prohaska's usenet account" <bp@www.zefox.net > wrote in message
news:i2%Gi.4509$7P7.2796@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net...
> Hi all,
>
> I'm finding I almost never use the boiler on my old Olympia Coffex.
> Since it's been the boiler that has caused most of the troubles
> the machine has given me, I'm wondering if anyone makes a compact
> single-group machine that has no boiler.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Thanks for reading,
>
> bob prohaska
>
>



  
Date: 16 Sep 2007 09:44:22
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Boilerless espresso machine?
I doubt the LP would work without steam pressure forcing hot water into the
pump chamber? Of course there are ways around this, but all involve
pressurizing the boiler in some way; direct plumbing, external pump, etc.
I'd like to have a Gaggia Achille to tear apart; I like the idea of a heat
exchanger in a lever machine, but I'd have to see how it's implemented. If
the levered pump is actually forcing cold water thru the HX, as happens with
pump HX's, then the machine shows promise.
--
Robert Harmon
--
http://www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj - My coffee pages.

http://www.tinyurl.com/2tnv87 - My 'Guidelines For Newbies' page.

http://www.tinyurl.com/2cr3e2 - I have things for sale here.
"Dan Bollinger" <danNObollinger@insightSPAMbb.com > wrote in message
news:EcmdnR_FYo_Ru3DbnZ2dnUVZ_oCvnZ2d@insightbb.com...
> Even a La Pavoni lever machine has a boiler. Of course, most of the
> reason espresso machines have boilers is to create steam for frothing. As
> far as making espresso, you only need a water heater.
>
> Even so, the difference between a water heater and boiler isn't very much.
> Most share the same components, and hence the same failures. Even water
> heaters have safety valves in case the pressure gets too high.
>
> I wonder if you couldn't hack the La Pavoni so you can pour hot water into
> it from a tea kettle?
>
> Dan
>
> "bob prohaska's usenet account" <bp@www.zefox.net> wrote in message
> news:i2%Gi.4509$7P7.2796@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net...
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I'm finding I almost never use the boiler on my old Olympia Coffex.
>> Since it's been the boiler that has caused most of the troubles
>> the machine has given me, I'm wondering if anyone makes a compact
>> single-group machine that has no boiler.
>>
>> Any ideas?
>>
>> Thanks for reading,
>>
>> bob prohaska
>>
>>
>




   
Date: 16 Sep 2007 11:45:55
From: Dan Bollinger
Subject: Re: Boilerless espresso machine?
I was thinking along the lines of using gravity to accomplish that, putting a
funnel/reservoir above the machine piped into the piston chamber. If I recall,
early espresso machines had gravity feed water from heated water tanks (not
boilers). Dan

>I doubt the LP would work without steam pressure forcing hot water into the
>pump chamber? Of course there are ways around this, but all involve
>pressurizing the boiler in some way; direct plumbing, external pump, etc.



 
Date: 16 Sep 2007 08:16:54
From: JeeWee
Subject: Re: Boilerless espresso machine?
bob prohaska's usenet account <bp@www.zefox.net > wrote in news:i2%Gi.4509
$7P7.2796@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm finding I almost never use the boiler on my old Olympia Coffex.
> Since it's been the boiler that has caused most of the troubles
> the machine has given me, I'm wondering if anyone makes a compact
> single-group machine that has no boiler.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Thanks for reading,
>
> bob prohaska
>
>
>

What about Quikmill?

http://www.quickmill.it/MyIndex.php?Lang=ENG&Menu=Categorie&Cat=COFFEE%
20MACHINES&Sotto_cat=

Greetings


JW