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Date: 12 Dec 2006 11:56:43
From:
Subject: Carimali Junior burr grinder - any experience?
...anybody had any experience w/ it?
http://www.carimali.com/inglese/prodotti/prodotti.asp?id_prodotto=16
...or similar as it seems to be the same going under different logos
(Obel, Cimbali etc.)
Any feedback would be highly appreciated,
Thanks
Dragan





 
Date: 03 Jan 2007 16:43:56
From: Danny
Subject: Re: Carimali Junior burr grinder - any experience?
ns.gaga@gmail.com wrote:
> ...anybody had any experience w/ it?
> http://www.carimali.com/inglese/prodotti/prodotti.asp?id_prodotto=16
> ...or similar as it seems to be the same going under different logos
> (Obel, Cimbali etc.)
> Any feedback would be highly appreciated,
> Thanks
> Dragan
>

In the UK, that grinder is badged as a Bregant. It's much, much
smaller than the commercial grinders you compare it to, and it's
definitely not related to a Cimbali Junior. I have both grinders
here. The Bregant suffers from the 40 adjustment notches - should
ideally be 60-80. You could probably modify it to allow finer adjustment.

--
Regards, Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
http://www.malabargold.co.uk (UK/EU ordering for Malabar Gold blend)



 
Date: 15 Dec 2006 13:01:34
From:
Subject: Re: Carimali Junior burr grinder - any experience?
...I'm not from TIbet but you were not that far away afterall :) - I'm
in Europe, Eastern Europe to be exact - and even though w/ many
'oversees' contacts and ties and traveling a lot in between, I've
decided to go w/ my local dealership - ordering thru web here gets
pretty expensive and painful, shipping costs, customs fees etc. - and
in case you have problems and need to return it back it gets even
messier, I've tried before but just isn't worth it, and above all I
have very little time for that. But actually they are not that bad
afterall, it could never get close to the level of service in US (I've
lived in US for a few years and I know how it works, and that's one of
the few things I miss about US :), but price I got was pretty much the
same as on the web, good deals that is. But hey, I have to live w/ it,
not too much choice as I can see it. I might order some coffee and
'accessories' from the web, like Reg Barger for example, but this was
just 'too heavy' for ordering online, I would've paid double the price
I got here basically, it's simple as that - so some arm twisting here
and there seemed like a better option...

...and on the grinder - I believe you're right, it's not 15kg or close
I think, but it's heavy, but rather close to 10 (I'll measure it one of
these days) - but let's solve that enigma - do you know how to
disassemble it fast? I'll measure the burrs and see where I am - I know
the guy from the shop did it in exactly 2 seconds but cannot remember
what he did - and I'm just reluctant to do it - and I practically have
no manual for it, other then that stupid copied "Italiano' one, it's
probably for completely different machine as I can see...
...and by far the best manual I've seen so far in my life is for
Vibiemme Domobar - you should see the English used, it is real funny,
one pager all in all - terrible...

Dragan

Jack Denver wrote:
> Are you sure you have the Junior (or the manual for the Junior)?
>
> The Carmali spec for the Junior clearly states 50mm burrs:
>
> http://www.carimali.com/inglese/prodotti/prodotti.asp?id_prodotto=16
>
> 63mm burrs would be on a full sized commercial grinder, not a compact size
> grinder.
>
> Another hint is the weight - a 50 mm grinder in a metal housing should weigh
> on the order of 6 kilos. A 63mm grinder usually weighs out in the range of
> 13-15 kilos. The Carmali spec says that the Junior weighs 14kg which is
> surely wrong - it would have to be made of lead for a small grinder to weigh
> 30+ lbs.
>
>
> I'm sure your grinder is fine even if it isn't a Cimbali inside. All the
> Italian made commercial grinders are very good. Your instinct that it is a
> relabeled something is of course correct - Carmali and most of the other
> smaller espresso machine makers don't make their own grinders. If its not a
> relabeled DRM then it's a relabeled Bregant and if it's not that it's a
> relabled Rossi, etc. (not too many etc. because there are that many makers).
> They are just what the name says - commercial grinders (with the small sized
> ones typically intended as a decaf grinder, a backup grinder or for small
> commercial establishments). In home use they should all last pretty much
> forever with only burr changes every few years and the grind quality on all
> of them is very good, with the differences being mostly in features such as
> the # of "clicks" or whether the grinder is stepless.
>
>
>
>
>
> <ns.gaga@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1166106213.915769.295360@f1g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >> And one more to add, the link at bregant - it's close to my model here
> > but it's different again, so not sure if 50mm goes for me, I haven't
> > been looking inside yet but as soon as I do I'll report on it - my
> > manual says 63mm but I'm not sure (as I don't have any good manual I"m
> > not sure how to take it apart w/o doing anything stupid).
> > Anyway, thanks guys, I promise I'll think twice before making any
> > unsubstantiated statements like this, thanks for correcting me,
> > Dragan
> > P.S. you may be right about my local dealer afterall, but it's the
> > best, closest one I got here, and given the lack of time - so no choice
> > there.
> >
> > Coffee for Connoisseurs wrote:
> >> See http://www.eng.bregant.it/template.php?pag=13582 . AFAIK the burrs
> >> are
> >> 50mm and interchangeable with the Rocky.
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Alan
> >>
> >> alanfrew@coffeeco.com.au
> >> www.coffeeco.com.au
> >



 
Date: 14 Dec 2006 06:23:33
From:
Subject: Re: Carimali Junior burr grinder - any experience?
...ok guys :), point taken - I withdraw my conclusion and needless to
say that you know much more on this topic - my intention was merely to
initiate some discussion on this, but none of you replied the other
day, where were you when I need it :), so I tried answering my own
question, I'm glad that we finally have some facts here as it might
help somebody in the future, I lost some time trying to find something
about these types of grinders, and all I noticed was lot of 'copying'
going on, hence my conclusion I guess - and it was just my 'hunch' and
after seeing too many very similar grinders, all Italian, lousy manuals
and just w/ different stickers, never got into that many details - they
all looked the same to me:). Also the very noisy sound described for
Cimbali, also typical w/ what I have in hand - anyway, good to hear
that we narrowed it down a bit, I'm satisfied afterall.
And one more to add, the link at bregant - it's close to my model here
but it's different again, so not sure if 50mm goes for me, I haven't
been looking inside yet but as soon as I do I'll report on it - my
manual says 63mm but I'm not sure (as I don't have any good manual I"m
not sure how to take it apart w/o doing anything stupid).
Anyway, thanks guys, I promise I'll think twice before making any
unsubstantiated statements like this, thanks for correcting me,
Dragan
P.S. you may be right about my local dealer afterall, but it's the
best, closest one I got here, and given the lack of time - so no choice
there.

Coffee for Connoisseurs wrote:
> See http://www.eng.bregant.it/template.php?pag=13582 . AFAIK the burrs are
> 50mm and interchangeable with the Rocky.
>
>
> --
> Alan
>
> alanfrew@coffeeco.com.au
> www.coffeeco.com.au



  
Date: 15 Dec 2006 09:51:02
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Carimali Junior burr grinder - any experience?
Are you sure you have the Junior (or the manual for the Junior)?

The Carmali spec for the Junior clearly states 50mm burrs:

http://www.carimali.com/inglese/prodotti/prodotti.asp?id_prodotto=16

63mm burrs would be on a full sized commercial grinder, not a compact size
grinder.

Another hint is the weight - a 50 mm grinder in a metal housing should weigh
on the order of 6 kilos. A 63mm grinder usually weighs out in the range of
13-15 kilos. The Carmali spec says that the Junior weighs 14kg which is
surely wrong - it would have to be made of lead for a small grinder to weigh
30+ lbs.


I'm sure your grinder is fine even if it isn't a Cimbali inside. All the
Italian made commercial grinders are very good. Your instinct that it is a
relabeled something is of course correct - Carmali and most of the other
smaller espresso machine makers don't make their own grinders. If its not a
relabeled DRM then it's a relabeled Bregant and if it's not that it's a
relabled Rossi, etc. (not too many etc. because there are that many makers).
They are just what the name says - commercial grinders (with the small sized
ones typically intended as a decaf grinder, a backup grinder or for small
commercial establishments). In home use they should all last pretty much
forever with only burr changes every few years and the grind quality on all
of them is very good, with the differences being mostly in features such as
the # of "clicks" or whether the grinder is stepless.





<ns.gaga@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1166106213.915769.295360@f1g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> And one more to add, the link at bregant - it's close to my model here
> but it's different again, so not sure if 50mm goes for me, I haven't
> been looking inside yet but as soon as I do I'll report on it - my
> manual says 63mm but I'm not sure (as I don't have any good manual I"m
> not sure how to take it apart w/o doing anything stupid).
> Anyway, thanks guys, I promise I'll think twice before making any
> unsubstantiated statements like this, thanks for correcting me,
> Dragan
> P.S. you may be right about my local dealer afterall, but it's the
> best, closest one I got here, and given the lack of time - so no choice
> there.
>
> Coffee for Connoisseurs wrote:
>> See http://www.eng.bregant.it/template.php?pag=13582 . AFAIK the burrs
>> are
>> 50mm and interchangeable with the Rocky.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Alan
>>
>> alanfrew@coffeeco.com.au
>> www.coffeeco.com.au
>




  
Date: 14 Dec 2006 07:57:22
From: Ken Fox
Subject: Re: Carimali Junior burr grinder - any experience?
of course, I don't know where you live, but at least in the US and Canada,
most home espresso equipment owned by enthusiasts seems to be shipped to the
customer from dealers elsewhere. Even people living in very big cities like
New York appear not to have very good local options for purchase. European
participants here also report receiving their gear from distant dealers
rather than locally. This is because this is specialty equipment and there
just aren't that many consumer oriented dealers with big selections.

If you haven't considered dealing with a more distant dealer who knows his
stock and offers good service, you are probably shortchanging yourself. Of
course, if you live in Tibet, this comment might not apply to you.

ken
;-)

<ns.gaga@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1166106213.915769.295360@f1g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> ...ok guys :), point taken - I withdraw my conclusion and needless to
> say that you know much more on this topic - my intention was merely to
> initiate some discussion on this, but none of you replied the other
> day, where were you when I need it :), so I tried answering my own
> question, I'm glad that we finally have some facts here as it might
> help somebody in the future, I lost some time trying to find something
> about these types of grinders, and all I noticed was lot of 'copying'
> going on, hence my conclusion I guess - and it was just my 'hunch' and
> after seeing too many very similar grinders, all Italian, lousy manuals
> and just w/ different stickers, never got into that many details - they
> all looked the same to me:). Also the very noisy sound described for
> Cimbali, also typical w/ what I have in hand - anyway, good to hear
> that we narrowed it down a bit, I'm satisfied afterall.
> And one more to add, the link at bregant - it's close to my model here
> but it's different again, so not sure if 50mm goes for me, I haven't
> been looking inside yet but as soon as I do I'll report on it - my
> manual says 63mm but I'm not sure (as I don't have any good manual I"m
> not sure how to take it apart w/o doing anything stupid).
> Anyway, thanks guys, I promise I'll think twice before making any
> unsubstantiated statements like this, thanks for correcting me,
> Dragan
> P.S. you may be right about my local dealer afterall, but it's the
> best, closest one I got here, and given the lack of time - so no choice
> there.
>
> Coffee for Connoisseurs wrote:
>> See http://www.eng.bregant.it/template.php?pag=13582 . AFAIK the burrs
>> are
>> 50mm and interchangeable with the Rocky.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Alan
>>
>> alanfrew@coffeeco.com.au
>> www.coffeeco.com.au
>




 
Date: 13 Dec 2006 14:43:56
From:
Subject: Re: Carimali Junior burr grinder - any experience?
...ok, my apologies if I rushed into conclusions, it wasn't my
intention - but many things are just too similar, name for once, and
also I got that story from my local dealer which deals w/ various
grinders coming from Italy directly - maybe it's not Obel, but maybe
Obel got it from DRM - and mine doesn't look like any of the too
exactly, but just minor details - and I agree, after closely
introspecting the Cimbali one it is a bit different (that switch on the
front), but I still think it's the same machine underneath, just smells
that way, too similar I think. Also I'm reading my manual here and that
of the Cimbali, it's like it's copied for the most of it - so that's
where I got it I think. Anyway, was just my impression, but we should
not draw any conclusions, agreed,
Thanks,
Dragan

Ken Fox wrote:
> <ns.gaga@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1166047832.016859.28400@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> > ...and again to answer my own question, hoping to help somebody in the
> > future -
> > http://www.home-barista.com/feature-spotlight-grinders.html
> > http://www.1st-line.net/cgi-bin/category.cgi?item=JuniorSilver&type=store
> > ...all 'Juniors' seem to be the same machine inside, it's made by Obel
> > as it seems and w/ different logos then on, Cimbali, Carimali etc. -
> > the one in the review above was Cimbali but they are all the same. And
> > based on that review (home-barista.com) it seems it's in the top 5
> > grinders, along w/ the Mazzer Mini - it's pre-commercial grade machine
> > (next step is full-commercial one), it's just for espresso grinding,
> > has 40 something steps, I probably won't use more then a few:). And so
> > far it works great, but I'll post an update in some time, to whom ever
> > it may concern.
> > Dragan
> >
> > ns.gaga@gmail.com wrote:
> >> ...anybody had any experience w/ it?
> >> http://www.carimali.com/inglese/prodotti/prodotti.asp?id_prodotto=16
> >> ...or similar as it seems to be the same going under different logos
> >> (Obel, Cimbali etc.)
> >> Any feedback would be highly appreciated,
> >> Thanks
> >> Dragan
> >
>
> I have no idea where you got this; I didn't see it in either of your links.
>
> The Cimbali Jr. grinder is NOT made by Obel, to the best of my knowledge.
> It was made by a company called DRM, which appears to have been absorbed
> into Cimbali over the last number of years. If you have occasion to examine
> the stamped plastic parts in the Cimbalis, they are still stamped, "DRM,"
> usually on the back, as are internal plastic parts that involve the grind
> setting window.
>
> I have friends who have an Obel grinder, which I have cleaned up for them
> and changed the burrs on; it bears no resemblence internally or externally
> to a Cimbali Junior grinder. Looking at your original link, there is no
> similarity in appearance of the pictured grinder to a Cimbali Jr. other than
> perhaps for the doser; many dosers look alike although close inspection will
> show that they are very very different.
>
> ken



  
Date: 13 Dec 2006 17:15:02
From: Ken Fox
Subject: Re: Carimali Junior burr grinder - any experience?
I would be very surprised if there is any relationship between a Cimbali Jr.
and any other grinder other than 1-2 grinders with 64mm burrs that have been
made by Cimbali over time that are very similar (e.g. the old Cadet, one of
which I also own and a version of the Max that I believe is also superceded
by another version or model).

The 64mm planar burrs that are used in the Cimbali/DRM grinders are unique
to my knowledge and not used in any other grinder. I have never seen a list
of grinder burrs that crossreferenced the Cimbali burrs to another mfr's
models.

My friends, who do have an Obel grinder, are using Rossi burrs in their
grinder because those burrs ARE interchangeable, which *might* tell
something about the provenance of those grinders but I have no personal
knowledge of that. When the bean hopper on their Obel grinder was broken by
their cleaning lady, I got them a spare which was also off a Rossi, but
again, they were interchangeable.

The manuals that ship with Italian espresso machines and grinders are for
the most part useless. It is possible that there is a cottage industry for
producing the manuals that ship with various machines, which would be
believable to me because all of them are sh*tty and have almost no useful
information. I think it is much more likely that the manuals came out of
the same printshop than it is that the grinders were produced by the same
factory or with the same tooling. English comprehension is not too good in
Italian companies and it seems quite possible to me that there is a lot of
copying of manuals (especially in languages other than Italian) to the
extent that people think they can get away with it.

Burrs are often not made by the company that actually produces the grinder
but again they are made to specs and not generic.

Here are listings of Cimbali and Obel burrs and you will see that they are
different; the Cimbali Jr. uses 64mm (DRM) burrs and the Obel Jr. uses 50mm
burrs. Obel does have a grinder with 64mm burrs, but it rotates in the
opposite direction to the Cimbali (SX vs. DX) and the other parameters are
very different also.

http://www.nuovaricambi.it/caffeca-dett.asp?IDGRUPPO=196&IDRIF=33&RICAMBI=%3Cb%3EMACINACAFFE',%20MACINE%3C/b%3E&GRUPPI=Scheme%2019&IMMAGINE=macina019.gif&TIPO=COFFEE%20MACHINES

http://www.nuovaricambi.it/caffeca-dett.asp?IDGRUPPO=197&IDRIF=33&RICAMBI=%3Cb%3EMACINACAFFE',%20MACINE%3C/b%3E&GRUPPI=Scheme%2020&IMMAGINE=macina020.gif&TIPO=COFFEE%20MACHINES

Therefore, yes, we can draw conclusions and the conclusion is what I stated
originally; there is no relationship between a Cimbali Jr. and Obel Jr.
grinders. If your dealer is telling you this sort of stuff that can be
easily disproven, perhaps you need a new dealer.

ken


<ns.gaga@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1166049836.302970.173100@f1g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> ...ok, my apologies if I rushed into conclusions, it wasn't my
> intention - but many things are just too similar, name for once, and
> also I got that story from my local dealer which deals w/ various
> grinders coming from Italy directly - maybe it's not Obel, but maybe
> Obel got it from DRM - and mine doesn't look like any of the too
> exactly, but just minor details - and I agree, after closely
> introspecting the Cimbali one it is a bit different (that switch on the
> front), but I still think it's the same machine underneath, just smells
> that way, too similar I think. Also I'm reading my manual here and that
> of the Cimbali, it's like it's copied for the most of it - so that's
> where I got it I think. Anyway, was just my impression, but we should
> not draw any conclusions, agreed,
> Thanks,
> Dragan
>
> Ken Fox wrote:
>> <ns.gaga@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1166047832.016859.28400@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>> > ...and again to answer my own question, hoping to help somebody in the
>> > future -
>> > http://www.home-barista.com/feature-spotlight-grinders.html
>> > http://www.1st-line.net/cgi-bin/category.cgi?item=JuniorSilver&type=store
>> > ...all 'Juniors' seem to be the same machine inside, it's made by Obel
>> > as it seems and w/ different logos then on, Cimbali, Carimali etc. -
>> > the one in the review above was Cimbali but they are all the same. And
>> > based on that review (home-barista.com) it seems it's in the top 5
>> > grinders, along w/ the Mazzer Mini - it's pre-commercial grade machine
>> > (next step is full-commercial one), it's just for espresso grinding,
>> > has 40 something steps, I probably won't use more then a few:). And so
>> > far it works great, but I'll post an update in some time, to whom ever
>> > it may concern.
>> > Dragan
>> >
>> > ns.gaga@gmail.com wrote:
>> >> ...anybody had any experience w/ it?
>> >> http://www.carimali.com/inglese/prodotti/prodotti.asp?id_prodotto=16
>> >> ...or similar as it seems to be the same going under different logos
>> >> (Obel, Cimbali etc.)
>> >> Any feedback would be highly appreciated,
>> >> Thanks
>> >> Dragan
>> >
>>
>> I have no idea where you got this; I didn't see it in either of your
>> links.
>>
>> The Cimbali Jr. grinder is NOT made by Obel, to the best of my knowledge.
>> It was made by a company called DRM, which appears to have been absorbed
>> into Cimbali over the last number of years. If you have occasion to
>> examine
>> the stamped plastic parts in the Cimbalis, they are still stamped, "DRM,"
>> usually on the back, as are internal plastic parts that involve the grind
>> setting window.
>>
>> I have friends who have an Obel grinder, which I have cleaned up for them
>> and changed the burrs on; it bears no resemblence internally or
>> externally
>> to a Cimbali Junior grinder. Looking at your original link, there is no
>> similarity in appearance of the pictured grinder to a Cimbali Jr. other
>> than
>> perhaps for the doser; many dosers look alike although close inspection
>> will
>> show that they are very very different.
>>
>> ken
>




   
Date: 14 Dec 2006 01:39:25
From: Coffee for Connoisseurs
Subject: Re: Carimali Junior burr grinder - any experience?
See http://www.eng.bregant.it/template.php?pag=13582 . AFAIK the burrs are
50mm and interchangeable with the Rocky.


--
Alan

alanfrew@coffeeco.com.au
www.coffeeco.com.au




 
Date: 13 Dec 2006 14:10:32
From:
Subject: Re: Carimali Junior burr grinder - any experience?
...and again to answer my own question, hoping to help somebody in the
future -
http://www.home-barista.com/feature-spotlight-grinders.html
http://www.1st-line.net/cgi-bin/category.cgi?item=JuniorSilver&type=store
...all 'Juniors' seem to be the same machine inside, it's made by Obel
as it seems and w/ different logos then on, Cimbali, Carimali etc. -
the one in the review above was Cimbali but they are all the same. And
based on that review (home-barista.com) it seems it's in the top 5
grinders, along w/ the Mazzer Mini - it's pre-commercial grade machine
(next step is full-commercial one), it's just for espresso grinding,
has 40 something steps, I probably won't use more then a few:). And so
far it works great, but I'll post an update in some time, to whom ever
it may concern.
Dragan

ns.gaga@gmail.com wrote:
> ...anybody had any experience w/ it?
> http://www.carimali.com/inglese/prodotti/prodotti.asp?id_prodotto=16
> ...or similar as it seems to be the same going under different logos
> (Obel, Cimbali etc.)
> Any feedback would be highly appreciated,
> Thanks
> Dragan



  
Date: 13 Dec 2006 15:28:45
From: Ken Fox
Subject: Re: Carimali Junior burr grinder - any experience?

<ns.gaga@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1166047832.016859.28400@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> ...and again to answer my own question, hoping to help somebody in the
> future -
> http://www.home-barista.com/feature-spotlight-grinders.html
> http://www.1st-line.net/cgi-bin/category.cgi?item=JuniorSilver&type=store
> ...all 'Juniors' seem to be the same machine inside, it's made by Obel
> as it seems and w/ different logos then on, Cimbali, Carimali etc. -
> the one in the review above was Cimbali but they are all the same. And
> based on that review (home-barista.com) it seems it's in the top 5
> grinders, along w/ the Mazzer Mini - it's pre-commercial grade machine
> (next step is full-commercial one), it's just for espresso grinding,
> has 40 something steps, I probably won't use more then a few:). And so
> far it works great, but I'll post an update in some time, to whom ever
> it may concern.
> Dragan
>
> ns.gaga@gmail.com wrote:
>> ...anybody had any experience w/ it?
>> http://www.carimali.com/inglese/prodotti/prodotti.asp?id_prodotto=16
>> ...or similar as it seems to be the same going under different logos
>> (Obel, Cimbali etc.)
>> Any feedback would be highly appreciated,
>> Thanks
>> Dragan
>

I have no idea where you got this; I didn't see it in either of your links.

The Cimbali Jr. grinder is NOT made by Obel, to the best of my knowledge.
It was made by a company called DRM, which appears to have been absorbed
into Cimbali over the last number of years. If you have occasion to examine
the stamped plastic parts in the Cimbalis, they are still stamped, "DRM,"
usually on the back, as are internal plastic parts that involve the grind
setting window.

I have friends who have an Obel grinder, which I have cleaned up for them
and changed the burrs on; it bears no resemblence internally or externally
to a Cimbali Junior grinder. Looking at your original link, there is no
similarity in appearance of the pictured grinder to a Cimbali Jr. other than
perhaps for the doser; many dosers look alike although close inspection will
show that they are very very different.

ken