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Date: 07 Feb 2007 09:33:00
From: Richard Fangnail
Subject: Coffee with slightly sour taste
Sometimes in a cafe the coffee will have a slightly sour taste. I
take that to mean the coffee is bad, old or contains something bad.
But are there types of coffee that are supposed to taste like that?

The last times it happened, I had used those tall, long dispensers
where you press the big button on top.





 
Date: 10 Feb 2007 15:06:24
From: Kyle
Subject: Re: Coffee with slightly sour taste
On Feb 7, 12:33 pm, "Richard Fangnail" <richardfangn...@excite.com >
wrote:
> Sometimes in a cafe the coffee will have a slightly sour taste. I
> take that to mean the coffee is bad, old or contains something bad.
> But are there types of coffee that are supposed to taste like that?
>
> The last times it happened, I had used those tall, long dispensers
> where you press the big button on top.

Low-quality beans and overextraction (too much water) can result in
sour-tasting coffee.



 
Date: 09 Feb 2007 06:34:52
From: Flasherly
Subject: Re: Coffee with slightly sour taste
On Feb 8, 9:09 pm, Guy Bannis <g...@ether.net > wrote:
> In article <1170869580.860752.310...@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>,
> "Richard Fangnail" <richardfangn...@excite.com> wrote:
>
> > Sometimes in a cafe the coffee will have a slightly sour taste. I
> > take that to mean the coffee is bad, old or contains something bad.
> > But are there types of coffee that are supposed to taste like that?
>
> > The last times it happened, I had used those tall, long dispensers
> > where you press the big button on top.
>
> Sour or acidic? A lot of people like coffees with a strongly acidic
> flavor.

Both and indeed one well might. Acidity for including sour over an
interrelation of roast and age, with advanced bean age and longer
roasts seen by degrees directly related to acidic breakdown.
Excessively sour, I'd hazard, would be last to linger in advanced
aging as a compounded defect. Defectiveness, flawed processing and
improper care for harvesting to directly attribute for a rioy or
extreme sour effect; moisture related issues are prime culprits.
Character, or variety, comprising horticultural strain and
characteristic of a bean for inherent acidity. Complexity is given to
an affinity within balance, as both are apart from single source
origin for composites applicable to a blended aciditic aftermath.
Acidic finish, a lingering effect specific to a tart, harsh, if not
vibrantly bright resonance. Acidity, last, for regarding as the single-
most important virtue to guage a taste in fine coffees.



 
Date: 08 Feb 2007 18:39:27
From: Flasherly
Subject: Re: Coffee with slightly sour taste
On Feb 8, 7:53 pm, "Ed Needham" <e...@NOSPAMhomeroaster.com > wrote:
> There are quite a few acids in coffee, including the most common ones, malic
> acid (apple), ascorbic acid (citrus), acetic acid (vinegar). All roast away
> to different degrees based on the level of roast. A sour bean could be one
> that is underroasted, or one roasted too fast, where the outside is roasted
> more than the inside, or it could be that the varietal tends toward a citrus
> or sour flavor. Some of the hybrid varietals are more citrusy and sourish
> to me.

Acetic - that's likely one that I couldn't put a finger on. Vinegar. A
dark red wine can have a similar effect, something of a feel to taste,
localized in the rear and sides of the tongue adjoining the gullet.
Taste is, as I recall, is an experience localized to specific
receptacles. Apple vinegar, wish I could say I've run into that. I
like most anything, food and drink, very little I don't. Wine, I tend
bright white, light and sweet, rich and fruity, but then I'm apt to
drink the bottle, I suppose, otherwise a glass of burgandy should do
without the headache. Coffee, I'd rather have the taste of sour
notes. First impressions were of a sour and chocolate tastes.
Focused, refined and concentrated, there's a novelty aspect, although
I don't believe but a finer Robusta will too quickly supplant
Arabica. I'll probably make continued reservations for equatorial and
Latin America coffees (hybrids sound interesting), before moving
further south, and likewise try to branch into Indonesian javas. The
emphasis will remain on African coffees, though. Even when roasting,
I taste darkness, and tend to lighten back, enjoying acidics defined
for hints of the sour and bitter.



 
Date: 09 Feb 2007 02:09:40
From: Guy Bannis
Subject: Re: Coffee with slightly sour taste
In article <1170869580.860752.310660@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com >,
"Richard Fangnail" <richardfangnail@excite.com > wrote:

> Sometimes in a cafe the coffee will have a slightly sour taste. I
> take that to mean the coffee is bad, old or contains something bad.
> But are there types of coffee that are supposed to taste like that?
>
> The last times it happened, I had used those tall, long dispensers
> where you press the big button on top.

Sour or acidic? A lot of people like coffees with a strongly acidic
flavor.


  
Date: 09 Feb 2007 16:10:36
From: Brent
Subject: Re: Coffee with slightly sour taste
preparation method has an effect as well.

um, as long as the espresso puck wasn't being recycled into the presspost
prior to being dumped in the frip filter you should be OK...

>
>> Sometimes in a cafe the coffee will have a slightly sour taste. I
>> take that to mean the coffee is bad, old or contains something bad.
>> But are there types of coffee that are supposed to taste like that?
>>
>> The last times it happened, I had used those tall, long dispensers
>> where you press the big button on top.
>
> Sour or acidic? A lot of people like coffees with a strongly acidic
> flavor.




  
Date: 08 Feb 2007 18:44:38
From:
Subject: Re: Coffee with slightly sour taste
On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 02:09:40 GMT, Guy Bannis <guy@ether.net > wrote:


>Sour or acidic? A lot of people like coffees with a strongly acidic
>flavor.

I was going to say that. My tastes run towards East African coffees
which are 'acidic' but I wouldn't say 'sour'. I know that sour taste
and it's not something that -should- be in a carefully-roasted Kenyan
or Ethiopian coffee. People who write about the flavor of coffee
compare it to 'citrus', but I would say it tastes more like cherries.
Words like bright, sharp, maybe tart come to my mind, but not sour.

And it's true, robusta is not nearly as good as arabica, but lots of
grocery-store-shelf coffees claim 100% arabica and they still taste
like crap. Also I understand robusta is indispensable in some
espresso blends.


   
Date: 08 Feb 2007 21:05:56
From: Lloyd Parsons
Subject: Re: Coffee with slightly sour taste
In article <5knns2pd8aeb9iv815hb1seqbd8l6bnova@4ax.com >, Blazing Laser
wrote:

> On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 02:09:40 GMT, Guy Bannis <guy@ether.net> wrote:
>
>
> >Sour or acidic? A lot of people like coffees with a strongly acidic
> >flavor.
>
> I was going to say that. My tastes run towards East African coffees
> which are 'acidic' but I wouldn't say 'sour'. I know that sour taste
> and it's not something that -should- be in a carefully-roasted Kenyan
> or Ethiopian coffee. People who write about the flavor of coffee
> compare it to 'citrus', but I would say it tastes more like cherries.
> Words like bright, sharp, maybe tart come to my mind, but not sour.
>
> And it's true, robusta is not nearly as good as arabica, but lots of
> grocery-store-shelf coffees claim 100% arabica and they still taste
> like crap. Also I understand robusta is indispensable in some
> espresso blends.

I like acidics myself. But I just light roasted a Colombian for a test
and it definitely came out sour. Not pleasant at all.


    
Date: 09 Feb 2007 00:08:59
From:
Subject: Re: Coffee with slightly sour taste
On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 21:05:56 -0600, Lloyd Parsons
<lloydparsons@mac.com > wrote:


>I like acidics myself. But I just light roasted a Colombian for a test
>and it definitely came out sour. Not pleasant at all.

It'd be especially bad with Columbian because you don't have that
sharpness to mask it. 8^)


     
Date: 09 Feb 2007 09:03:07
From: Lloyd Parsons
Subject: Re: Coffee with slightly sour taste
In article <iuaos25g054i10vpa5kfkv86tp3i8h4s7i@4ax.com >, Blazing Laser
wrote:

> On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 21:05:56 -0600, Lloyd Parsons
> <lloydparsons@mac.com> wrote:
>
>
> >I like acidics myself. But I just light roasted a Colombian for a test
> >and it definitely came out sour. Not pleasant at all.
>
> It'd be especially bad with Columbian because you don't have that
> sharpness to mask it. 8^)

I was afraid that a Colombian wouldn't be very good at a very light
roast, so this was an experiment and a small batch.

I'll keep playing around with lighter roasts until I find a bean that is
good to me at that level.


      
Date: 09 Feb 2007 11:23:12
From: Ed Needham
Subject: Re: Coffee with slightly sour taste
What is it that you are looking for, and why do you think it will only be
found in a light roast?

There are many complex flavors that only develop at darker roast levels.
Lighter roasts are great for judging varietal characteristics of a bean, and
when cupping, many experienced cuppers will cup at a light roast level for
determining faults and bean characteristics. That does not mean that the
full pleasurable flavors of the bean will develop at that level.

When roasting, starches in the bean convert to sugars, and sugars begin to
brown (Maillard Reaction), then they caramelize, and then begin to scorch
and burn. It's similar to cheese baking on a pizza. If you just melt the
cheese, to me it's a bit boring. Browning at least part of the cheese
brings out flavor and makes it more interesting. Same with sautéing onions.
Sure, raw onions can be enjoyed, but they sugars and cartelization brought
out by sautéing them makes them a bit less harsh and sweeter.

If you go too far in a coffee roast, the fruitiness and acidic sharpness
diminishes, as does the varietal distinction, and the roast flavors begin to
predominate. Balancing the roast so that the fruity acids balance the
sweetness, and bringing the sugars to a caramelized, and even slightly
roasty level makes for a well balanced roast.

Of course, personal preference rules, but if you're turned off by grassy,
sour beans, you need to roast a bit further.

--
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"
http://www.homeroaster.com
(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************


"Lloyd Parsons" <lloydparsons@mac.com > wrote in message
news:lloydparsons-C1DE20.09030709022007@individual.net...
> In article <iuaos25g054i10vpa5kfkv86tp3i8h4s7i@4ax.com>, Blazing Laser
> wrote:
<SNIP >
> I'll keep playing around with lighter roasts until I find a bean that is
> good to me at that level.




       
Date: 09 Feb 2007 11:35:58
From: Lloyd Parsons
Subject: Re: Coffee with slightly sour taste
In article <ANudnaz4F4dtAlHYnZ2dnUVZ_oytnZ2d@insightbb.com >,
"Ed Needham" <ed@NOSPAMhomeroaster.com > wrote:

> What is it that you are looking for, and why do you think it will only be
> found in a light roast?
>
> There are many complex flavors that only develop at darker roast levels.
> Lighter roasts are great for judging varietal characteristics of a bean, and
> when cupping, many experienced cuppers will cup at a light roast level for
> determining faults and bean characteristics. That does not mean that the
> full pleasurable flavors of the bean will develop at that level.
>
> When roasting, starches in the bean convert to sugars, and sugars begin to
> brown (Maillard Reaction), then they caramelize, and then begin to scorch
> and burn. It's similar to cheese baking on a pizza. If you just melt the
> cheese, to me it's a bit boring. Browning at least part of the cheese
> brings out flavor and makes it more interesting. Same with sautéing onions.
> Sure, raw onions can be enjoyed, but they sugars and cartelization brought
> out by sautéing them makes them a bit less harsh and sweeter.
>
> If you go too far in a coffee roast, the fruitiness and acidic sharpness
> diminishes, as does the varietal distinction, and the roast flavors begin to
> predominate. Balancing the roast so that the fruity acids balance the
> sweetness, and bringing the sugars to a caramelized, and even slightly
> roasty level makes for a well balanced roast.
>
> Of course, personal preference rules, but if you're turned off by grassy,
> sour beans, you need to roast a bit further.

It is more of an experiment in flavors I suppose. All the coffee in my
house is from the espresso machine as I don't own any other device
currently. While most of my friends like the Americanos, Cafe Cremas,
Espresso shots and milk drinks, some find them a bit bold for their
tastes.

And I had been reading about cupping and thought maybe lighter roasts
would be more to their liking. Hence, looking for the lightest that is
still good and not sour. Possibly the Colombians are not the right
choice in that endeavor, or maybe that approach is totally wrong?

I know that I can get a milder cup with say a Guat Antiqua, but since I
never know when company is coming, I don't often have that roasted up.
I will say that when I had some roasted to just into 2nd crack, the mild
coffee lovers preferred it.

My mainstay coffees are Colombians, Bolivians and the Timor Maubesse. I
roast these normally well into 2nd crack and get a very nice body and
flavor that I enjoy. I usually have at least one of these roasted up at
all times.

Here's the profile that I use on my Gene for these:
Preheat to 300F for 5 Minutes
300F for 5 minutes to dry
350F for 5 minutes
400F for 4 minutes
475 until desired roast level (time varies here)

Most roasts take about 20-22 minutes total and stretching out the roast
like this develops the body very well, imo.

For beans that are all about nuance, like Sidamos, I use this profile:
Preheat to 400F for 5 minutes
480 to 1st crack
465 to desired level
Rapid cool

Alternatively, I use the FreshRoast because of the fast ramp up to temp.

For the lighter roasts, I tried the 1st profile but stopped just barely
out of 1st crack, or at least what seemed to be the finish of it. I
also tried the second profile to the same level. Unfortunately for me,
both were unsatisfactory.


        
Date: 10 Feb 2007 17:44:13
From: Ed Needham
Subject: Re: Coffee with slightly sour taste
The other thing to look at with sourness in espresso is brewing with water
that's not hot enough. Underextracted coffee can taste insipid and
sometimes sourish.
The espresso process will accentuate flavors in coffee, so any sourness in
the varietal type or the light roasts will come through. Even the sensation
of strong can sometimes be perceived as sour or the intensity is so high it
seems bitter. But dilute it with hot water and the sourness/bitterness goes
away.
--
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"
http://www.homeroaster.com
(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************


"Lloyd Parsons" <lloydparsons@mac.com > wrote in message
news:lloydparsons-5FFB0F.11355809022007@individual.net...
> In article <ANudnaz4F4dtAlHYnZ2dnUVZ_oytnZ2d@insightbb.com>,
>
> It is more of an experiment in flavors I suppose. All the coffee in my
> house is from the espresso machine as I don't own any other device
> currently. While most of my friends like the Americanos, Cafe Cremas,
> Espresso shots and milk drinks, some find them a bit bold for their
> tastes.
>
> And I had been reading about cupping and thought maybe lighter roasts
> would be more to their liking. Hence, looking for the lightest that is
> still good and not sour. Possibly the Colombians are not the right
> choice in that endeavor, or maybe that approach is totally wrong?
>
> I know that I can get a milder cup with say a Guat Antiqua, but since I
> never know when company is coming, I don't often have that roasted up.
> I will say that when I had some roasted to just into 2nd crack, the mild
> coffee lovers preferred it.
>
> My mainstay coffees are Colombians, Bolivians and the Timor Maubesse. I
> roast these normally well into 2nd crack and get a very nice body and
> flavor that I enjoy. I usually have at least one of these roasted up at
> all times.
>
> Here's the profile that I use on my Gene for these:
> Preheat to 300F for 5 Minutes
> 300F for 5 minutes to dry
> 350F for 5 minutes
> 400F for 4 minutes
> 475 until desired roast level (time varies here)
>
> Most roasts take about 20-22 minutes total and stretching out the roast
> like this develops the body very well, imo.
>
> For beans that are all about nuance, like Sidamos, I use this profile:
> Preheat to 400F for 5 minutes
> 480 to 1st crack
> 465 to desired level
> Rapid cool
>
> Alternatively, I use the FreshRoast because of the fast ramp up to temp.
>
> For the lighter roasts, I tried the 1st profile but stopped just barely
> out of 1st crack, or at least what seemed to be the finish of it. I
> also tried the second profile to the same level. Unfortunately for me,
> both were unsatisfactory.




    
Date: 09 Feb 2007 00:22:24
From: Ed Needham
Subject: Re: Coffee with slightly sour taste
Roast a little darker to reduce the acids a bit and bring the roast to a
more caramelly, sweet, roasty flavor with a hint of the sharpness of the
acids rather than the presiding flavor. In roasting coffee, as in most
things, it's mostly about balance.
--
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"
http://www.homeroaster.com
(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

"Lloyd Parsons" <lloydparsons@mac.com > wrote in message
news:lloydparsons-E15974.21055608022007@individual.net...
> In article <5knns2pd8aeb9iv815hb1seqbd8l6bnova@4ax.com>, Blazing Laser
> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 02:09:40 GMT, Guy Bannis <guy@ether.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> >Sour or acidic? A lot of people like coffees with a strongly acidic
>> >flavor.
>>
>> I was going to say that. My tastes run towards East African coffees
>> which are 'acidic' but I wouldn't say 'sour'. I know that sour taste
>> and it's not something that -should- be in a carefully-roasted Kenyan
>> or Ethiopian coffee. People who write about the flavor of coffee
>> compare it to 'citrus', but I would say it tastes more like cherries.
>> Words like bright, sharp, maybe tart come to my mind, but not sour.
>>
>> And it's true, robusta is not nearly as good as arabica, but lots of
>> grocery-store-shelf coffees claim 100% arabica and they still taste
>> like crap. Also I understand robusta is indispensable in some
>> espresso blends.
>
> I like acidics myself. But I just light roasted a Colombian for a test
> and it definitely came out sour. Not pleasant at all.




 
Date: 08 Feb 2007 15:10:51
From: Flasherly
Subject: Re: Coffee with slightly sour taste
On Feb 8, 1:55 pm, Steve Ackman <s...@SNIP-THIS.twoloonscoffee.com >
wrote:
>
> (if your news server has 4 year retention).

Add a belated thanks for taking time to note complex acids structures
from the workshop.

Diego Rivera: ..."Diego, I want to show you my paintings!" [I admire
her. Her work is acid and] tender... hard as steel... and fine as a
butterfly's wing. Loveable as a smile... cruel as... the bitterness of
life. I don't believe... that ever before has a women put such
agonized poetry on canvas.

Frida Kahlo: Shut up, panzon. Who died?

- http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120679/



 
Date: 08 Feb 2007 13:55:26
From: Steve Ackman
Subject: Re: Coffee with slightly sour taste
In <1170869580.860752.310660@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com >, on 7 Feb 2007
09:33:00 -0800, Richard Fangnail wrote:
> Sometimes in a cafe the coffee will have a slightly sour taste. I
> take that to mean the coffee is bad, old or contains something bad.
> But are there types of coffee that are supposed to taste like that?

Acidity is a good thing whereas "sourness"
generally isn't. There's a fine line between the
two, and it really depends on the proportions of
the acids present in addition to the actual amounts
or concentrations.

If you ever get the opportunity to attend the
Organic Acid Workshop by Joseph Rivera, you'll be
amazed at the way the same acid can be beneficial or
detrimental.

For an attempt at describing that workshop,
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.coffee/browse_frm/thread/72f98c7dac46127a/8f0ed699c8cce32b?lnk=st&q=&rnum=1#8f0ed699c8cce32b
or
news:slrnbb0pve.ge3.steve@wizard.dyndns.org
(if your news server has 4 year retention).


 
Date: 08 Feb 2007 09:26:48
From: Flasherly
Subject: Re: Coffee with slightly sour taste
On Feb 8, 11:19 am, "stereoplegic" <stereople...@aim.com > wrote:
>
> the Nicaragua Limoncillo Estate Var. Java is an excellent coffee,
> actually pretty sweet, w/ just a hint of lime. As for the original
> post, are you sure it tasted sour and not bitter? it could be bitter
> not from the roast or particular bean, but because the urn/airpot/
> whatever it was served from wasn't cleaned properly.

Seemed from the site review the lime pronounced, but it's sitll a
sublety - bitter, sour, acidic - I'm still pondering. Sweet and honey
I think I understand. Light from green-roasted bitter, extraction
bitter, powder grind sediment -- bitters I look for, but, ever since
picking up a modest pump espresso machine, roaster and grinder, as for
my sink and adjoing coffee accurements, it's become the cleanest area
in the house. Certainly would hope that's not what sour entails -
from rancid leftovers. Problem with modesty is what I'm capable of
producing with entry grade espresso equipment isn't up to par with
reviewer gear. What I paid for is the bases - to tentatively approach
any expectation for descriptions given coffee growers, roasters, and
cuppers. Limoncillo, sounds delightful. Someday, maybe, it will
be. Step at a time, though, before I'd be so bold to order $12+ lb.
origin coffee and expect to replicate or denounce a finer distinction
than I presently feel able. Nah, I'll settle for the inexpensive
stuff bagged in the back of Tampa warehouse for now, and pull up the
La Pavoni Pros from ebay every once in a while. They sure look pretty.



 
Date: 08 Feb 2007 09:20:28
From: Richard
Subject: Re: Coffee with slightly sour taste
On Feb 8, 8:19 am, "stereoplegic" <stereople...@aim.com > wrote:

> >http://www.sweetias.com/coffee.central.nicaragua.html#limoncilloJAVA

> the Nicaragua Limoncillo Estate Var. Java is an excellent coffee,
> actually pretty sweet, w/ just a hint of lime. As for the original
> post, are you sure it tasted sour and not bitter? it could be bitter
> not from the roast or particular bean, but because the urn/airpot/
> whatever it was served from wasn't cleaned properly.


Yes, I know the difference between sour and bitter.

The problem with those "airpot" things is that you can't tell if it's
full or empty without pumping it.



 
Date: 08 Feb 2007 11:37:14
From: Mark Lipton
Subject: Re: Coffee with slightly sour taste
Richard Fangnail wrote:
> Sometimes in a cafe the coffee will have a slightly sour taste. I
> take that to mean the coffee is bad, old or contains something bad.
> But are there types of coffee that are supposed to taste like that?
>
> The last times it happened, I had used those tall, long dispensers
> where you press the big button on top.
>

The sourness arises from acidity. All coffee contains high amounts of
quinic acid, which tastes sour, but it's much more noticeable in robusta
coffees (Folgers etc.) and beans that have sat around too long and
oxidized (here I think the problem is that most of the other flavor
components are gone, leaving only the sour acids behind). However, the
coffees of E. Africa are known for their bright acidity, which some
people might find sour. Your best bet is to drink freshly roasted
arabica beans from the Americas or the Pacific.

k Lpton


  
Date: 08 Feb 2007 19:53:11
From: Ed Needham
Subject: Re: Coffee with slightly sour taste
There are quite a few acids in coffee, including the most common ones, malic
acid (apple), ascorbic acid (citrus), acetic acid (vinegar). All roast away
to different degrees based on the level of roast. A sour bean could be one
that is underroasted, or one roasted too fast, where the outside is roasted
more than the inside, or it could be that the varietal tends toward a citrus
or sour flavor. Some of the hybrid varietals are more citrusy and sourish
to me.
--
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"
http://www.homeroaster.com
(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

"k Lipton" <notpil@eudrup.ude > wrote in message
news:brqdnce2QOEnzFbYnZ2dnUVZ_tunnZ2d@insightbb.com...
> Richard Fangnail wrote:
>> Sometimes in a cafe the coffee will have a slightly sour taste. I
>> take that to mean the coffee is bad, old or contains something bad.
>> But are there types of coffee that are supposed to taste like that?
>>
>> The last times it happened, I had used those tall, long dispensers
>> where you press the big button on top.
>>
>
> The sourness arises from acidity. All coffee contains high amounts of
> quinic acid, which tastes sour, but it's much more noticeable in robusta
> coffees (Folgers etc.) and beans that have sat around too long and
> oxidized (here I think the problem is that most of the other flavor
> components are gone, leaving only the sour acids behind). However, the
> coffees of E. Africa are known for their bright acidity, which some
> people might find sour. Your best bet is to drink freshly roasted
> arabica beans from the Americas or the Pacific.
>
> k Lpton




   
Date: 15 Feb 2007 18:55:43
From: mangoboy
Subject: Re: Coffee with slightly sour taste

i finally got to try the luwak coffee (search for 'kopi luwak' or
'civet coffee') and it is indeed much lower in acidity as people
claim. it is a bit pricey (i got some as a b-day gift) and indeed
a guilty pleasure. the smell of the roasted bean is incredible...deep,
complex, nutty. it is quite enjoyable and i've vacuum sealed
the rest of the beans for special occasions.

but back to some of the original comments about coffee in vacuum pump
dispensers...sometimes coffee houses don't wash them out regularly
enough and these dispensers will have contained different flavors at
one time or another, leading to a cup of coffee that smells, like a dirty
thermos. this leads me to believe that people that run or work in these
establishments aren't coffee drinkers :D

orlando

In article <K4ednTIe35lnWFbYnZ2dnUVZ_sGqnZ2d@insightbb.com >,
Ed Needham <ed@NOSPAMhomeroaster.com > wrote:
>There are quite a few acids in coffee, including the most common ones, malic
>acid (apple), ascorbic acid (citrus), acetic acid (vinegar). All roast away
>to different degrees based on the level of roast. A sour bean could be one
>that is underroasted, or one roasted too fast, where the outside is roasted
>more than the inside, or it could be that the varietal tends toward a citrus
>or sour flavor. Some of the hybrid varietals are more citrusy and sourish
>to me.
>--
>*********************
>Ed Needham®
>"to absurdity and beyond!"
>http://www.homeroaster.com
>(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
>*********************
>
>"k Lipton" <notpil@eudrup.ude> wrote in message
>news:brqdnce2QOEnzFbYnZ2dnUVZ_tunnZ2d@insightbb.com...
>> Richard Fangnail wrote:
>>> Sometimes in a cafe the coffee will have a slightly sour taste. I
>>> take that to mean the coffee is bad, old or contains something bad.
>>> But are there types of coffee that are supposed to taste like that?
>>>
>>> The last times it happened, I had used those tall, long dispensers
>>> where you press the big button on top.
>>>
>>
>> The sourness arises from acidity. All coffee contains high amounts of
>> quinic acid, which tastes sour, but it's much more noticeable in robusta
>> coffees (Folgers etc.) and beans that have sat around too long and
>> oxidized (here I think the problem is that most of the other flavor
>> components are gone, leaving only the sour acids behind). However, the
>> coffees of E. Africa are known for their bright acidity, which some
>> people might find sour. Your best bet is to drink freshly roasted
>> arabica beans from the Americas or the Pacific.
>>
>> k Lpton
>
>




 
Date: 08 Feb 2007 08:19:14
From: stereoplegic
Subject: Re: Coffee with slightly sour taste

Flasherly wrote:
> On Feb 7, 12:33 pm, "Richard Fangnail" <richardfangn...@excite.com>
> wrote:
> > Sometimes in a cafe the coffee will have a slightly sour taste. I
> > take that to mean the coffee is bad, old or contains something bad.
> > But are there types of coffee that are supposed to taste like that?
> >
> > The last times it happened, I had used those tall, long dispensers
> > where you press the big button on top.
>
> Degrees less from good. Any coffee can quickly deteriorate from
> optimal coffee. If brewed it may be burnt and overextracted. Where
> the beans come from, how roasted, and hopefully not ground too long
> ago. If very hot from a carafe is allowed to cool, tastebuds aren't
> burnt sufficiently and allow flavor to pass. Good sour coffee,
> bitterness and acidity, in part is an acquired latitude. Here's an
> interesting degree of sour, a lime coffee ... Doesn't mean I'd attain
> it, either. Optimal coffee can be more exacting than my works are
> capable.
>
> http://www.sweetias.com/coffee.central.nicaragua.html#limoncilloJAVA

the Nicaragua Limoncillo Estate Var. Java is an excellent coffee,
actually pretty sweet, w/ just a hint of lime. As for the original
post, are you sure it tasted sour and not bitter? it could be bitter
not from the roast or particular bean, but because the urn/airpot/
whatever it was served from wasn't cleaned properly.



 
Date: 07 Feb 2007 14:33:39
From: Flasherly
Subject: Re: Coffee with slightly sour taste
On Feb 7, 12:33 pm, "Richard Fangnail" <richardfangn...@excite.com >
wrote:
> Sometimes in a cafe the coffee will have a slightly sour taste. I
> take that to mean the coffee is bad, old or contains something bad.
> But are there types of coffee that are supposed to taste like that?
>
> The last times it happened, I had used those tall, long dispensers
> where you press the big button on top.

Degrees less from good. Any coffee can quickly deteriorate from
optimal coffee. If brewed it may be burnt and overextracted. Where
the beans come from, how roasted, and hopefully not ground too long
ago. If very hot from a carafe is allowed to cool, tastebuds aren't
burnt sufficiently and allow flavor to pass. Good sour coffee,
bitterness and acidity, in part is an acquired latitude. Here's an
interesting degree of sour, a lime coffee ... Doesn't mean I'd attain
it, either. Optimal coffee can be more exacting than my works are
capable.

http://www.sweetias.com/coffee.central.nicaragua.html#limoncilloJAVA



 
Date: 07 Feb 2007 12:02:09
From:
Subject: Re: Coffee with slightly sour taste
On 7 Feb 2007 09:33:00 -0800, "Richard Fangnail"
<richardfangnail@excite.com > wrote:

>Sometimes in a cafe the coffee will have a slightly sour taste. I
>take that to mean the coffee is bad, old or contains something bad.
>But are there types of coffee that are supposed to taste like that?
>
>The last times it happened, I had used those tall, long dispensers
>where you press the big button on top.

I roast my own coffee and I find this taste happens when I don't roast
it long enough.

But also coffee deteriorates when it sits around. The vac pots (where
you press the big button on top) are a big improvement over the old
system, keeping the coffee hot on an electric burner. But
fresh-brewed coffee is still much better.




  
Date: 07 Feb 2007 17:58:16
From: Mike Hartigan
Subject: Re: Coffee with slightly sour taste
In article <5kbks2ll00a8quei4opqfgpcd736qnikn5@4ax.com >, Blazing
Laser says...
> On 7 Feb 2007 09:33:00 -0800, "Richard Fangnail"
> <richardfangnail@excite.com> wrote:
>
> >Sometimes in a cafe the coffee will have a slightly sour taste. I
> >take that to mean the coffee is bad, old or contains something bad.
> >But are there types of coffee that are supposed to taste like that?
> >
> >The last times it happened, I had used those tall, long dispensers
> >where you press the big button on top.
>
> I roast my own coffee and I find this taste happens when I don't roast
> it long enough.

I've found that to be a bit of an overgeneralization. My early
experiments with roasting suggested to me that the sour taste is more
the result of simply roasting too quickly (hot) rather than under
roasting. You can get that sour taste even with charred beans if you
do it just right (or wrong in just thr right way). Oversimplified,
the exterior of the bean is the right color, the aroma is just right,
and you got just the right amount of smoke, but the interior is
underroasted. This is great way to cook a steak, not so great for
coffee.

> But also coffee deteriorates when it sits around. The vac pots (where
> you press the big button on top) are a big improvement over the old
> system, keeping the coffee hot on an electric burner. But
> fresh-brewed coffee is still much better.

Indeed!

--
-Mike


   
Date: 08 Feb 2007 13:29:48
From: Brent
Subject: Re: Coffee with slightly sour taste
could just be that the roaster wanted it to taste sour?


>>
>> >Sometimes in a cafe the coffee will have a slightly sour taste. I
>> >take that to mean the coffee is bad, old or contains something bad.
>> >But are there types of coffee that are supposed to taste like that?
>> >
>> >The last times it happened, I had used those tall, long dispensers
>> >where you press the big button on top.
>>
>> I roast my own coffee and I find this taste happens when I don't roast
>> it long enough.
>
> I've found that to be a bit of an overgeneralization. My early
> experiments with roasting suggested to me that the sour taste is more
> the result of simply roasting too quickly (hot) rather than under
> roasting. You can get that sour taste even with charred beans if you
> do it just right (or wrong in just thr right way). Oversimplified,
> the exterior of the bean is the right color, the aroma is just right,
> and you got just the right amount of smoke, but the interior is
> underroasted. This is great way to cook a steak, not so great for
> coffee.
>
>> But also coffee deteriorates when it sits around. The vac pots (where
>> you press the big button on top) are a big improvement over the old
>> system, keeping the coffee hot on an electric burner. But
>> fresh-brewed coffee is still much better.
>
> Indeed!
>
> --
> -Mike