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Date: 19 Dec 2006 15:05:02
From: anonrob
Subject: Coffeegeek Editor's choice budget grinder Solis Virtuoso
Should I be looking at a Solis Virtuoso instead of a Gaggia MDF to go
with my Gaggia Espresso??

Rob (I'm so confused) Hughes





 
Date: 21 Dec 2006 14:27:07
From: shane
Subject: Re: Coffeegeek Editor's choice budget grinder Solis Virtuoso
Hi k, Thanks for the update.

I am quite happy with my Mazzer Mini. When I finally decided to order,
I think the stepless M4 had just come out and was more expensive or
unavailable at the time. As it was I had to wait a couple of months
for a shipment of Mazzers to make it to the US from Italy.

I, for one, appreciate your detailed reviews. I have no other way of
seeing higher end prosumer espresso equipment in the flesh. There is
one retail outlet in Mpls that has stuff, but, their line tops out at
the Livia 90 and they don't have any grinders above a Rocky. Scary
thing was, last time I was there, I watched a sales guy sell a $500
Solis to an older couple, without a grinder, the sales guy ground up a
pound of espresso coffee and sent them out the door. Made me
shudder...

Shane

CoffeeKid wrote:
> shane wrote:
>
> > I only wish he was able to get out his detailed reviews more often.
>
> So do I!
>
> I was just saying this the other day, I can't remember if it was to
> Nick Cho or to someone else - the problem I have is that I set a high
> bar for the Detailed Review, and then felt that every new one should be
> even better than the previous one (which part of my brain still says
> sounds right - every new thing should be better than previous similar
> things)... and it, along with a lot of other stuff in my life became
> this big gorilla on my back. By late 2005, I just became afraid of the
> Detailed Review. Others offered to help, and when I told them what
> would have to be done, they balked, and rightly so.
>
> I won't make promises, but getting a great Content Editor in place has
> meant that maybe I can tackle the 672.5lb gorilla again. It's not for
> lack of trying in the past - on my computer, I have a folder called
> "Detailed Reviews" that has dozens and dozens of word documents - some
> products have like 5, 8 different .docs, all mostly rough notes,
> measurements, commentary by people I've had use the machines, etc
> etc.More below:
>
> > However, I noticed
> > the Macap won Coffeegeek "editors choice" this year. There is no
> > Coffeegeek review of the Macap M4 that is comparable in scope to the
> > Coffeegeek MM detailed review. If there had been I wonder if I would
> > have chosen the Macap instead?
>
> My Macap experience is more recent. I had a stepped Macap grinder in
> 2005, and got the stepless model this spring after SCAA. It's been in
> the espresso lab (closet) since July, sitting pretty next to a Mazzer
> Super Jolly, and just performs so well... glacially slow compared to
> the Super Jolly, but it took over that position from the Mazzer Mini as
> a second grinder in that room. The Macap's a great grinder, but a much
> more recent development than the Mazzer. I've used a Mazzer Mini for
> five years now, and still think it kicks butt for home use, but I edged
> out towards the Macap stepless for the reasons listed ever-so-briefly
> in the Ed's Choice awards.
>
> k



 
Date: 21 Dec 2006 12:16:15
From: CoffeeKid
Subject: Re: Coffeegeek Editor's choice budget grinder Solis Virtuoso

shane wrote:

> I only wish he was able to get out his detailed reviews more often.

So do I!

I was just saying this the other day, I can't remember if it was to
Nick Cho or to someone else - the problem I have is that I set a high
bar for the Detailed Review, and then felt that every new one should be
even better than the previous one (which part of my brain still says
sounds right - every new thing should be better than previous similar
things)... and it, along with a lot of other stuff in my life became
this big gorilla on my back. By late 2005, I just became afraid of the
Detailed Review. Others offered to help, and when I told them what
would have to be done, they balked, and rightly so.

I won't make promises, but getting a great Content Editor in place has
meant that maybe I can tackle the 672.5lb gorilla again. It's not for
lack of trying in the past - on my computer, I have a folder called
"Detailed Reviews" that has dozens and dozens of word documents - some
products have like 5, 8 different .docs, all mostly rough notes,
measurements, commentary by people I've had use the machines, etc
etc.More below:

> However, I noticed
> the Macap won Coffeegeek "editors choice" this year. There is no
> Coffeegeek review of the Macap M4 that is comparable in scope to the
> Coffeegeek MM detailed review. If there had been I wonder if I would
> have chosen the Macap instead?

My Macap experience is more recent. I had a stepped Macap grinder in
2005, and got the stepless model this spring after SCAA. It's been in
the espresso lab (closet) since July, sitting pretty next to a Mazzer
Super Jolly, and just performs so well... glacially slow compared to
the Super Jolly, but it took over that position from the Mazzer Mini as
a second grinder in that room. The Macap's a great grinder, but a much
more recent development than the Mazzer. I've used a Mazzer Mini for
five years now, and still think it kicks butt for home use, but I edged
out towards the Macap stepless for the reasons listed ever-so-briefly
in the Ed's Choice awards.

k



 
Date: 21 Dec 2006 07:26:02
From: shane
Subject: Re: Coffeegeek Editor's choice budget grinder Solis Virtuoso
No information source is ever truely unbiased. So what if k is
biased? The other side is biased too. Look at both sides and make up
your own mind. Disagree in a polite and civil manner and we can all
end up learning something from each other.

I only wish he was able to get out his detailed reviews more often. Oh
well, k seems to have a lot of stuff on his plate. I bought a
Mazzer Mini based partly upon his detailed review. However, I noticed
the Macap won Coffeegeek "editors choice" this year. There is no
Coffeegeek review of the Macap M4 that is comparable in scope to the
Coffeegeek MM detailed review. If there had been I wonder if I would
have chosen the Macap instead?

I chose the Mazzer because aside from a couple minor things, it is
equal to the Macap also I felt the Mazzer burr steel might be better.
Who knows? It seems pretty much a coin toss between the two grinders.
I think the MM was $10 less, when I got mine.

Shane


CoffeeKid wrote:
> Roque wrote:
>
> > >*Yawn*
> > >
> > >Poor Terry.
> > >
> > >k
> >
> > The editor doth protest too much, methinks.
> >
> > Does anyone but me think it odd that friend k only comes here to
> > defend himself.
> >
> >
> Excuse me-- who are you again?
>
> k



 
Date: 20 Dec 2006 22:48:07
From: CoffeeKid
Subject: Re: Coffeegeek Editor's choice budget grinder Solis Virtuoso

Roque wrote:

> >*Yawn*
> >
> >Poor Terry.
> >
> >k
>
> The editor doth protest too much, methinks.
>
> Does anyone but me think it odd that friend k only comes here to
> defend himself.
>
>
Excuse me-- who are you again?

k



 
Date: 20 Dec 2006 16:46:29
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Coffeegeek Editor's choice budget grinder Solis Virtuoso
and that is NOT what we are taling about here.
Dave
192

notbob wrote
> . . . . shot. But, it's close enough for a commercial business with five
> yammering customers lined up.
>
> nb



  
Date: 20 Dec 2006 19:07:16
From: notbob
Subject: Re: Coffeegeek Editor's choice budget grinder Solis Virtuoso
On 2006-12-21, daveb <davebobblane@gmail.com > wrote:
> and that is NOT what we are taling about here.
> Dave

Pay attention.

It's what Randy was talking about and who I was replying to. Besides,
as much as you may like, you do not determine who "we" are in this ng.

nb



 
Date: 20 Dec 2006 12:52:23
From: CoffeeKid
Subject: Re: Coffeegeek Editor's choice budget grinder Solis Virtuoso

terryz@espressoparts.com wrote:
> anonrob wrote:
> > Should I be looking at a Solis Virtuoso instead of a Gaggia MDF to go
> > with my Gaggia Espresso??
> >
> > Rob (I'm so confused) Hughes
>
> Rob,
>
> Don't be confused. The Virtuoso is a great grinder, but it is as good
> as the MDF.
>
> The Coffeegeek Editors Choice list is NOT unbiased. What I mean by that
> is that Recommendations are a bit loaded.

*Yawn*

Poor Terry.

k



  
Date: 20 Dec 2006 17:06:02
From:
Subject: Re: Coffeegeek Editor's choice budget grinder Solis Virtuoso
On 20 Dec 2006 12:52:23 -0800, "CoffeeKid" <Coffeekid@gmail.com >
wrote:

>
>terryz@espressoparts.com wrote:
>> anonrob wrote:
>> > Should I be looking at a Solis Virtuoso instead of a Gaggia MDF to go
>> > with my Gaggia Espresso??
>> >
>> > Rob (I'm so confused) Hughes
>>
>> Rob,
>>
>> Don't be confused. The Virtuoso is a great grinder, but it is as good
>> as the MDF.
>>
>> The Coffeegeek Editors Choice list is NOT unbiased. What I mean by that
>> is that Recommendations are a bit loaded.
>
>*Yawn*
>
>Poor Terry.
>
>k

The editor doth protest too much, methinks.

Does anyone but me think it odd that friend k only comes here to
defend himself.









_______________________________________
Please Note: If you find a posting or message from me
offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate.


   
Date: 20 Dec 2006 20:21:05
From: Craig Andrews
Subject: Re: Coffeegeek Editor's choice budget grinder Solis Virtuoso

<Roque Ja > wrote in message
news:6enjo2hfgl1cp18pu1puhudtlkpn1ctngu@4ax.com...
> On 20 Dec 2006 12:52:23 -0800, "CoffeeKid" <Coffeekid@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>terryz@espressoparts.com wrote:
>>> anonrob wrote:
>>> > Should I be looking at a Solis Virtuoso instead of a Gaggia MDF to
>>> > go
>>> > with my Gaggia Espresso??
>>> >
>>> > Rob (I'm so confused) Hughes
>>>
>>> Rob,
>>>
>>> Don't be confused. The Virtuoso is a great grinder, but it is as
>>> good
>>> as the MDF.
>>>
>>> The Coffeegeek Editors Choice list is NOT unbiased. What I mean by
>>> that
>>> is that Recommendations are a bit loaded.
>>
>>*Yawn*
>>
>>Poor Terry.
>>
>>k
>
> The editor doth protest too much, methinks.
>
> Does anyone but me think it odd that friend k only comes here to
> defend himself.
>

Really.., but something I said earlier.. ohh, fn' forget it..! Quick to
respond it looked/preceived about something I posted (NOT about him..) &
nothing about a compliment/s here (& too numerous to mention on the
forums)...
Such is life.
Craig.



 
Date: 20 Dec 2006 11:29:08
From: shane
Subject: Re: Coffeegeek Editor's choice budget grinder Solis Virtuoso
I have a grinder with a doser, for one or two cups of espresso, the
doser doesn't do much.

A doser needs to be full of grounds to work properly.
Coffee left in the doser would be stale by the time I next make an
espresso.

I use the slightly-over-fill, level and tamp method of dosing, seems to
work for me.

I like the doser as it keeps the coffee ground mess contained to a
smaller area :)

Shane

Moka Java wrote:
> n00b wrote:
> > I have both a Gaggia Espresso and an MDF w/ doser. The doser is not
> > accurate at all. Maybe you'll be better off with a Cunill Tranquilo
> > which is equal in price to a MDF.
> >
>
> Don't expect any doser to be accurate. The LM Swift is pretty cool and
> accurate but it does a little more than a doser. I'd rather have a
> doser than stand around and watch the clumps fall into the PF basket.
> I'd rather have infinite stepless adjustment than pre-set clicks even if
> I could find some way to hack around the clicks.
>
> R "my dose isn't your dose" TF



 
Date: 20 Dec 2006 10:33:45
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Coffeegeek Editor's choice budget grinder Solis Virtuoso
Boy, when I made comment along those lines, I was flamed even more than
usual.


[BTW -- MDF all the way -- ANY doser is better than a bin (with
static)]

I've owned both . . . .

terryz@espressoparts.com wrote:
> anonrob wrote:
> > Should I be looking at a Solis Virtuoso instead of a Gaggia MDF to go
> > with my Gaggia Espresso??
> >
> > Rob (I'm so confused) Hughes
>
> Rob,
>
> Don't be confused. The Virtuoso is a great grinder, but it is as good
> as the MDF.
>
> The Coffeegeek Editors Choice list is NOT unbiased. What I mean by that
> is that Recommendations are a bit loaded.



 
Date: 20 Dec 2006 10:07:28
From: n00b
Subject: Re: Coffeegeek Editor's choice budget grinder Solis Virtuoso
I have both a Gaggia Espresso and an MDF w/ doser. The doser is not
accurate at all. Maybe you'll be better off with a Cunill Tranquilo
which is equal in price to a MDF.

On Dec 20, 7:05 am, "anonrob" <hughesr...@gmail.com > wrote:
> Should I be looking at a Solis Virtuoso instead of a Gaggia MDF to go
> with my Gaggia Espresso??
>
> Rob (I'm so confused) Hughes



  
Date: 20 Dec 2006 12:29:08
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Coffeegeek Editor's choice budget grinder Solis Virtuoso
"n00b" <colinloh@gmail.com > wrote:

>I have both a Gaggia Espresso and an MDF w/ doser. The doser is not
>accurate at all.

No dosers are accurate other than by coincidence (any given doser and
any given basket on any given day). They should be more accurately
referred to as a "dispenser."

Randy "3cc IV dose, thank you" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com





   
Date: 20 Dec 2006 15:32:48
From: notbob
Subject: Re: Coffeegeek Editor's choice budget grinder Solis Virtuoso
On 2006-12-20, Randy G <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com > wrote:
> No dosers are accurate other than by coincidence (any given doser and
> any given basket on any given day).

Only because all the anal regulars here ...you know who you are....
think in unrealistic lookee-my-new-data-plotter micro measurements.
Yeah, that Super Jolly doser does not dose exactly 14 +/-.01 g per dbl
shot. But, it's close enough for a commercial business with five
yammering customers lined up.

nb


  
Date: 20 Dec 2006 14:07:13
From: Harry Moos
Subject: Re: Coffeegeek Editor's choice budget grinder Solis Virtuoso
Accurate? Never thought it should be. I measure the beans before I put
them in the [MDF] grinder, then pull the lever till the PF is full and the
doser is empty. But I seldom make more than one [double] shot at a
session -- unless the first one is undrinkable, which happens less and less
as Silvia and I become better acquainted.

"n00b" <colinloh@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1166638048.618732.151340@80g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...
>I have both a Gaggia Espresso and an MDF w/ doser. The doser is not
> accurate at all. Maybe you'll be better off with a Cunill Tranquilo
> which is equal in price to a MDF.




  
Date: 20 Dec 2006 14:09:36
From: Moka Java
Subject: Re: Coffeegeek Editor's choice budget grinder Solis Virtuoso
n00b wrote:
> I have both a Gaggia Espresso and an MDF w/ doser. The doser is not
> accurate at all. Maybe you'll be better off with a Cunill Tranquilo
> which is equal in price to a MDF.
>

Don't expect any doser to be accurate. The LM Swift is pretty cool and
accurate but it does a little more than a doser. I'd rather have a
doser than stand around and watch the clumps fall into the PF basket.
I'd rather have infinite stepless adjustment than pre-set clicks even if
I could find some way to hack around the clicks.

R "my dose isn't your dose" TF


 
Date: 20 Dec 2006 07:47:18
From: shane
Subject: Re: Coffeegeek Editor's choice budget grinder Solis Virtuoso
My 2 cents, for what it is worth...

I bought a Virtuoso to use for espresso and after using it for a few
weeks I came to the conclusion that the Virtusoso does not work very
well as an espresso grinder.
I have no experience with the MDF, but as the Virtuoso is not an
espresso grinder, by simple process of elimination, go with the MDF.

Shane


anonrob wrote:
> Should I be looking at a Solis Virtuoso instead of a Gaggia MDF to go
> with my Gaggia Espresso??
>
> Rob (I'm so confused) Hughes



 
Date: 19 Dec 2006 18:15:07
From:
Subject: Re: Coffeegeek Editor's choice budget grinder Solis Virtuoso

anonrob wrote:
> As the kids say--kewl--
>
> Thanks fot the advice
>
> Rob
> yetanotherBob wrote:
> > In article <1166573734.772765.170400@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com>,
> > terryz@espressoparts.com says...
> > >
> > > anonrob wrote:
> > > > Should I be looking at a Solis Virtuoso instead of a Gaggia MDF to go
> > > > with my Gaggia Espresso??
> > > >
> > > > Rob (I'm so confused) Hughes
> > >
> > > Rob,
> > >
> > > Don't be confused. The Virtuoso is a great grinder, but it is as good
> > > as the MDF.


> > >
> > > The Coffeegeek Editors Choice list is NOT unbiased. What I mean by that
> > > is that Recommendations are a bit loaded.
> > >
> > >
> > I'm guessing terryz meant to say the Virtuoso is *not* as good as the
> > MDF, rather than the words that made it into his posting.
> >
> > If so, I'll second that. I've had experience with both; the Virtuoso is
> > a good grinder, but you'll have much better results with the MDF for
> > your Gaggia.
> >
> > Bob

Yep Yetanothermistake ;-) I did mean NOT



 
Date: 19 Dec 2006 17:33:37
From: anonrob
Subject: Re: Coffeegeek Editor's choice budget grinder Solis Virtuoso
As the kids say--kewl--

Thanks fot the advice

Rob
yetanotherBob wrote:
> In article <1166573734.772765.170400@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com>,
> terryz@espressoparts.com says...
> >
> > anonrob wrote:
> > > Should I be looking at a Solis Virtuoso instead of a Gaggia MDF to go
> > > with my Gaggia Espresso??
> > >
> > > Rob (I'm so confused) Hughes
> >
> > Rob,
> >
> > Don't be confused. The Virtuoso is a great grinder, but it is as good
> > as the MDF.
> >
> > The Coffeegeek Editors Choice list is NOT unbiased. What I mean by that
> > is that Recommendations are a bit loaded.
> >
> >
> I'm guessing terryz meant to say the Virtuoso is *not* as good as the
> MDF, rather than the words that made it into his posting.
>
> If so, I'll second that. I've had experience with both; the Virtuoso is
> a good grinder, but you'll have much better results with the MDF for
> your Gaggia.
>
> Bob



 
Date: 19 Dec 2006 16:15:36
From:
Subject: Re: Coffeegeek Editor's choice budget grinder Solis Virtuoso

anonrob wrote:
> Should I be looking at a Solis Virtuoso instead of a Gaggia MDF to go
> with my Gaggia Espresso??
>
> Rob (I'm so confused) Hughes

Rob,

Don't be confused. The Virtuoso is a great grinder, but it is as good
as the MDF.

The Coffeegeek Editors Choice list is NOT unbiased. What I mean by that
is that Recommendations are a bit loaded.



  
Date: 19 Dec 2006 19:34:30
From: yetanotherBob
Subject: Re: Coffeegeek Editor's choice budget grinder Solis Virtuoso
In article <1166573734.772765.170400@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com >,
terryz@espressoparts.com says...
>
> anonrob wrote:
> > Should I be looking at a Solis Virtuoso instead of a Gaggia MDF to go
> > with my Gaggia Espresso??
> >
> > Rob (I'm so confused) Hughes
>
> Rob,
>
> Don't be confused. The Virtuoso is a great grinder, but it is as good
> as the MDF.
>
> The Coffeegeek Editors Choice list is NOT unbiased. What I mean by that
> is that Recommendations are a bit loaded.
>
>
I'm guessing terryz meant to say the Virtuoso is *not* as good as the
MDF, rather than the words that made it into his posting.

If so, I'll second that. I've had experience with both; the Virtuoso is
a good grinder, but you'll have much better results with the MDF for
your Gaggia.

Bob