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Date: 26 Sep 2006 00:39:24
From: Alan
Subject: Could a stovetop espresso maker REALLY make that much crema?
Here's an ad for a stovetop espresso maker called "Kamira" which (according
to the text of the website as well its photos) purports to make an espresso
with crema "just like in the bars". Although it's an interestingly designed
machine, it looks to me like it's no different in operation from any other
steam-driven stovetop espresso machine.

Here's the url:

http://www.kamiraonline.com/default_english.htm

Is there something in its design which I'm overlooking which could possibly
produce that much crema?










 
Date: 26 Sep 2006 13:14:55
From:
Subject: Re: Could a stovetop espresso maker REALLY make that much crema?

Errr...? A creamy espresso on yuor kitched hob?

Sounds about right to me.


On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 00:39:24 GMT, "Alan" <in_flagrante@hotmail.com >
wrote:

>Here's an ad for a stovetop espresso maker called "Kamira" which (according
>to the text of the website as well its photos) purports to make an espresso
>with crema "just like in the bars". Although it's an interestingly designed
>machine, it looks to me like it's no different in operation from any other
>steam-driven stovetop espresso machine.
>
>Here's the url:
>
>http://www.kamiraonline.com/default_english.htm
>
>Is there something in its design which I'm overlooking which could possibly
>produce that much crema?
>
>
>
>
>





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Date: 26 Sep 2006 09:32:28
From: Omniryx@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Could a stovetop espresso maker REALLY make that much crema?
JulesG wrote:
> It seems that there is room for concern... Personnaly, when I have a
> choice between aluminium and steel cookware, I don't even hesitate.

Actually, I chose my cookware based on quality -- AllClad in my case.

But some people need things to worry about.

Will



 
Date: 26 Sep 2006 07:02:16
From: John S.
Subject: Re: Could a stovetop espresso maker REALLY make that much crema?

JulesG wrote:
> Omniryx@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > Not dangerous for your health at all. That is a medical myth that
> > originated in the days when renal dialysis patients were given aluminum
> > hydroxide in huge doses. The dialyzer membrane cannot remove aluminum,
> > causing blood levels to rise to dangerous levels and producing the
> > so-called "aluminum dementia."
> >
> > For an individual with anything like close to normal renal function,
> > cooking in or drinking liquids prepared in aluminum poses no risk
> > whatsoever.
> >
> > As my friend the toxicologist says, "The only way you could get enough
> > aluminum into your blood from an aluminum pot would be to grind it to
> > dust and inject it intravenously."
> >
> > It is time for this myth to die.
>
> Thanks for bringing this up. I did some research on the Net and it
> seems that you are right as far as cookware goes.
>
> Here is what the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry has
> to say:
> "Exposure to the low levels of aluminum that are naturally present in
> food and water and the forms of aluminum present in dirt and aluminum
> cookware is generally not harmful."

OK - one official vote for consumers not at much risk.


> Also:
> "The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has determined that aluminum
> cooking utensils, aluminum foil, antiperspirants, antacids, and other
> aluminum products are generally safe."

And another official vote for consumers not being at much risk.


>
> However, they also write:
> "Aluminum, however, is not a necessary substance for our bodies and too
> much may be harmful.

Yes, and too much water wil have a similarly negative impact.


> People who are exposed to high levels of aluminum in air may have
> respiratory problems including coughing and asthma from breathing dust.

Lesson to be learned: Don't grind your Bialetti pots to powder unless
you are wearing a mask.

> Some studies show that people with Alzheimer's disease have more
> aluminum than usual in their brains.

And...the real question is how the aluminum got there in such larhge
amounts. Possibly some of us have a tendency to accumulate the metal.

> We do not know whether aluminum
> causes the disease or whether the buildup of aluminum happens to people
> who already have the disease. Infants and adults who received large
> doses of aluminum as a treatment for another problem developed bone
> diseases, which suggests that aluminum may cause skeletal problems.
> Some sensitive people develop skin rashes from using aluminum
> chlorohydrate deodorants."
>
> It seems that there is room for concern... Personnaly, when I have a
> choice between aluminium and steel cookware, I don't even hesitate.

Watch out...stainless steel may be made of nickel and chromium,
molybdenum, carbon, iron. And that chromium is continually
oxidizing....



 
Date: 26 Sep 2006 06:46:36
From: JulesG
Subject: Re: Could a stovetop espresso maker REALLY make that much crema?
Oops... I forgot to quote the URL. Here it is:
http://www.inchem.org/documents/iarc/suppl7/aluminiumproduction.html



 
Date: 26 Sep 2006 06:42:58
From: JulesG
Subject: Re: Could a stovetop espresso maker REALLY make that much crema?
Omniryx@gmail.com wrote:

> Not dangerous for your health at all. That is a medical myth that
> originated in the days when renal dialysis patients were given aluminum
> hydroxide in huge doses. The dialyzer membrane cannot remove aluminum,
> causing blood levels to rise to dangerous levels and producing the
> so-called "aluminum dementia."
>
> For an individual with anything like close to normal renal function,
> cooking in or drinking liquids prepared in aluminum poses no risk
> whatsoever.
>
> As my friend the toxicologist says, "The only way you could get enough
> aluminum into your blood from an aluminum pot would be to grind it to
> dust and inject it intravenously."
>
> It is time for this myth to die.

Thanks for bringing this up. I did some research on the Net and it
seems that you are right as far as cookware goes.

Here is what the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry has
to say:
"Exposure to the low levels of aluminum that are naturally present in
food and water and the forms of aluminum present in dirt and aluminum
cookware is generally not harmful."
Also:
"The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has determined that aluminum
cooking utensils, aluminum foil, antiperspirants, antacids, and other
aluminum products are generally safe."

However, they also write:
"Aluminum, however, is not a necessary substance for our bodies and too
much may be harmful.
People who are exposed to high levels of aluminum in air may have
respiratory problems including coughing and asthma from breathing dust.
Some studies show that people with Alzheimer's disease have more
aluminum than usual in their brains. We do not know whether aluminum
causes the disease or whether the buildup of aluminum happens to people
who already have the disease. Infants and adults who received large
doses of aluminum as a treatment for another problem developed bone
diseases, which suggests that aluminum may cause skeletal problems.
Some sensitive people develop skin rashes from using aluminum
chlorohydrate deodorants."

It seems that there is room for concern... Personnaly, when I have a
choice between aluminium and steel cookware, I don't even hesitate.



 
Date: 26 Sep 2006 05:19:06
From: Omniryx@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Could a stovetop espresso maker REALLY make that much crema?
JulesG wrote:
> The Kamira is made of stainless steel but the Carioca is made of
> aluminium whis is reputed quite dangerous for your health

Not dangerous for your health at all. That is a medical myth that
originated in the days when renal dialysis patients were given aluminum
hydroxide in huge doses. The dialyzer membrane cannot remove aluminum,
causing blood levels to rise to dangerous levels and producing the
so-called "aluminum dementia."

For an individual with anything like close to normal renal function,
cooking in or drinking liquids prepared in aluminum poses no risk
whatsoever.

As my friend the toxicologist says, "The only way you could get enough
aluminum into your blood from an aluminum pot would be to grind it to
dust and inject it intravenously."

It is time for this myth to die.



 
Date: 26 Sep 2006 04:41:23
From: JulesG
Subject: Re: Could a stovetop espresso maker REALLY make that much crema?

The Kamira is made of stainless steel but the Carioca is made of
aluminium whis is reputed quite dangerous for your health



 
Date: 26 Sep 2006 13:35:02
From: Han-Wen Nienhuys
Subject: Re: Could a stovetop espresso maker REALLY make that much crema?
Alan schreef:
> Here's an ad for a stovetop espresso maker called "Kamira" which (according
> to the text of the website as well its photos) purports to make an espresso
> with crema "just like in the bars". Although it's an interestingly designed
> machine, it looks to me like it's no different in operation from any other
> steam-driven stovetop espresso machine.
>
> Here's the url:
>
> http://www.kamiraonline.com/default_english.htm
>
> Is there something in its design which I'm overlooking which could possibly
> produce that much crema?

Maybe they used freshly roasted beans?

The only moka pot I know that has an brewing mechanism is the bialetti
brikka.

http://www.bialettishop.com/BrikkaMain.htm

it's got a pressure valve on top of the outlet, which makes sure that
the coffee is pushed through the grounds at a higher pressure in a
shorter timespan. It produces significantly better coffee than the
standard moka pot, but any pump driven machine will handily beat it.


 
Date: 25 Sep 2006 19:31:29
From: dcrehr
Subject: Re: Could a stovetop espresso maker REALLY make that much crema?
Well, how about this one?

The "Carioca" mady by Bacchi in Italy.

http://www.bacchidesign.it/carioca/coffee_maker_eng.html


DR


John S. wrote:
> I suspect some "artistic license" in that shot. Take a good look at
> that crema...looks thick enough to be whipped cream.
>
>
> Alan wrote:
> > Here's an ad for a stovetop espresso maker called "Kamira" which (according
> > to the text of the website as well its photos) purports to make an espresso
> > with crema "just like in the bars". Although it's an interestingly designed
> > machine, it looks to me like it's no different in operation from any other
> > steam-driven stovetop espresso machine.
> >
> > Here's the url:
> >
> > http://www.kamiraonline.com/default_english.htm
> >
> > Is there something in its design which I'm overlooking which could possibly
> > produce that much crema?



  
Date: 26 Sep 2006 12:01:11
From: hudson
Subject: Re: Could a stovetop espresso maker REALLY make that much crema?

"dcrehr" <dcrehr@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1159237889.040652.35960@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> Well, how about this one?
>
> The "Carioca" mady by Bacchi in Italy.
>
> http://www.bacchidesign.it/carioca/coffee_maker_eng.html
>
>
> DR
>
>
> John S. wrote:

Oh how I wish someone on this group had used this one. I often go and stay
in Scotland in a house with no electricity and a mocca pot is not quite
adequate. I usually revert to french press.

Stuart Hudson




 
Date: 25 Sep 2006 19:05:02
From: John S.
Subject: Re: Could a stovetop espresso maker REALLY make that much crema?
I suspect some "artistic license" in that shot. Take a good look at
that crema...looks thick enough to be whipped cream.


Alan wrote:
> Here's an ad for a stovetop espresso maker called "Kamira" which (according
> to the text of the website as well its photos) purports to make an espresso
> with crema "just like in the bars". Although it's an interestingly designed
> machine, it looks to me like it's no different in operation from any other
> steam-driven stovetop espresso machine.
>
> Here's the url:
>
> http://www.kamiraonline.com/default_english.htm
>
> Is there something in its design which I'm overlooking which could possibly
> produce that much crema?



 
Date: 25 Sep 2006 18:30:32
From: anonrob
Subject: Re: Could a stovetop espresso maker REALLY make that much crema?
If it is presurized, "crema enhancer" type set-up, you should get that
kind of frothy crema.
I think.

Rob
Alan wrote:
> Here's an ad for a stovetop espresso maker called "Kamira" which (according
> to the text of the website as well its photos) purports to make an espresso
> with crema "just like in the bars". Although it's an interestingly designed
> machine, it looks to me like it's no different in operation from any other
> steam-driven stovetop espresso machine.
>
> Here's the url:
>
> http://www.kamiraonline.com/default_english.htm
>
> Is there something in its design which I'm overlooking which could possibly
> produce that much crema?



  
Date: 26 Sep 2006 02:13:00
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Could a stovetop espresso maker REALLY make that much crema?
I doubt that a steam pot could generate enough pressure to work with a
pressurized PF, at least not one like Saeco uses.
--
Robert (duck & cover) Harmon
http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
http://tinyurl.com/psfob
http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r

"anonrob" <hughesrljr@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1159234232.826100.139220@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> If it is presurized, "crema enhancer" type set-up, you should get that
> kind of frothy crema.
> I think.
>
> Rob
> Alan wrote:
>> Here's an ad for a stovetop espresso maker called "Kamira" which
>> (according
>> to the text of the website as well its photos) purports to make an
>> espresso
>> with crema "just like in the bars". Although it's an interestingly
>> designed
>> machine, it looks to me like it's no different in operation from any
>> other
>> steam-driven stovetop espresso machine.
>>
>> Here's the url:
>>
>> http://www.kamiraonline.com/default_english.htm
>>
>> Is there something in its design which I'm overlooking which could
>> possibly
>> produce that much crema?
>