coffee-forum.net
Promoting coffee discussion.

Main
Date: 05 Sep 2007 13:58:06
From: SJM
Subject: Dandy brew light problem being subverted by adding PID
So, I have all the parts for my PID kit here in front of me, and
absolutely infallible directions for adding it to a Silvia, but this
isn't a Silvia, and I have a couple of questions.

Well I'll start with the first one: if you've PID'ddd a Gaggia
Espresso, for example, where did you put the SSR?

I know, I know, but it's the first thing I'm supposed to do, and since
I can't visualize how it all goes together, I'm not sure where to put
it.

SJM





 
Date: 06 Sep 2007 07:30:12
From: SJM
Subject: Re: mounting SSR internally in a classic.
On Sep 6, 7:20 am, "daveb" <davebo...@gmail.com > wrote:
> key to the misunderstanding is the word "dandy"
>
> I thought it was an adjective,
>
> when it really was a noun -- a model name.
>
> there still may be a way to mount that internally.
>
> pls write me direct.
>
> thanx
>
> dave
>
> "SJM" <cajamadimail-goo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1189041393.479474.36430@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Sep 5, 5:40 pm, lockjaw <davebo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Sep 5, 5:06 pm, "Robert Harmon" <Texas_Cof...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >> > The SSR needs a heat sink (either mount it directly on the machine
> >> > chassis
> >> > or use a separate unit). There's not a lot of room on the inside so
> >> > consider
> >> > a separate metal box for the PID & SSR combined.
>
> >> > --
> >> > Robert Harmon
>
> >> Nonsense!
>
> >> Are you looking down into the classic from the front with the top
> >> off?
>
> >> look to the right, just above the hole where the 'funnel' feeds water
> >> into the clear plastic tank below.
>
> >> Right there, just above that hole on the right interior wall of the
> >> machine there is ample space to mount the SSR. Use #8 X 1/2" bolts,
> >> stainless if you like, nuts and lockwashers.
>
> >> It will be easier if you PRE-wire the SSR before mounting it to the
> >> interior panel. use the grease on the metal portion of the SSR.
>
> >> This area is safe and certainly cool enuf for the SSR, and will easily
> >> dissipate the heat generated by the SSR when on.
>
> >> I know. I've done it. Many times
>
> >> regards
>
> >> dave
>
> >>www.hitechespresso.com
>
> > Just to be sure, Dave, I'm talking about a Gaggia Dandy here, not a
> > Classic. The housing is plastic, not metal, which is, I think, what
> > Robert's concern is/was.
>
> > SJM

"key to the misunderstanding is the word "dandy" "
I figgered. I haven't seen much information about the Gaggia Dandy,
and she is quite dandy

And, thanks to Jim Galt, I have what I need to install the PID in this
Dandy.
Thanks for the learnin' folks.
SJM



 
Date: 05 Sep 2007 19:41:43
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: mounting SSR internally in a classic.
On Sep 5, 7:40 pm, lockjaw <davebo...@gmail.com > wrote:
> Nonsense!
>
> I know. I've done it. Many times
>
> regards
>
> dave
>
> www.hitechespresso.com

Damn, we're *SO* lucky to have an expert on PID's in this group! I can
see why so many folks are lining up to have you install $70 worth of
parts in their espresso machines for just $250. You are so *NOT*
knowledgeable.

RHH (Oh, and stop emailing me, please)



 
Date: 05 Sep 2007 18:16:33
From: SJM
Subject: Re: mounting SSR internally in a classic.
On Sep 5, 5:40 pm, lockjaw <davebo...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Sep 5, 5:06 pm, "Robert Harmon" <Texas_Cof...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > The SSR needs a heat sink (either mount it directly on the machine chassis
> > or use a separate unit). There's not a lot of room on the inside so consider
> > a separate metal box for the PID & SSR combined.
>
> > --
> > Robert Harmon
>
> Nonsense!
>
> Are you looking down into the classic from the front with the top
> off?
>
> look to the right, just above the hole where the 'funnel' feeds water
> into the clear plastic tank below.
>
> Right there, just above that hole on the right interior wall of the
> machine there is ample space to mount the SSR. Use #8 X 1/2" bolts,
> stainless if you like, nuts and lockwashers.
>
> It will be easier if you PRE-wire the SSR before mounting it to the
> interior panel. use the grease on the metal portion of the SSR.
>
> This area is safe and certainly cool enuf for the SSR, and will easily
> dissipate the heat generated by the SSR when on.
>
> I know. I've done it. Many times
>
> regards
>
> dave
>
> www.hitechespresso.com

Just to be sure, Dave, I'm talking about a Gaggia Dandy here, not a
Classic. The housing is plastic, not metal, which is, I think, what
Robert's concern is/was.

SJM



  
Date: 06 Sep 2007 10:20:42
From: daveb
Subject: Re: mounting SSR internally in a classic.
key to the misunderstanding is the word "dandy"

I thought it was an adjective,

when it really was a noun -- a model name.

there still may be a way to mount that internally.

pls write me direct.

thanx

dave


"SJM" <cajamadimail-google@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1189041393.479474.36430@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 5, 5:40 pm, lockjaw <davebo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sep 5, 5:06 pm, "Robert Harmon" <Texas_Cof...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>> > The SSR needs a heat sink (either mount it directly on the machine
>> > chassis
>> > or use a separate unit). There's not a lot of room on the inside so
>> > consider
>> > a separate metal box for the PID & SSR combined.
>>
>> > --
>> > Robert Harmon
>>
>> Nonsense!
>>
>> Are you looking down into the classic from the front with the top
>> off?
>>
>> look to the right, just above the hole where the 'funnel' feeds water
>> into the clear plastic tank below.
>>
>> Right there, just above that hole on the right interior wall of the
>> machine there is ample space to mount the SSR. Use #8 X 1/2" bolts,
>> stainless if you like, nuts and lockwashers.
>>
>> It will be easier if you PRE-wire the SSR before mounting it to the
>> interior panel. use the grease on the metal portion of the SSR.
>>
>> This area is safe and certainly cool enuf for the SSR, and will easily
>> dissipate the heat generated by the SSR when on.
>>
>> I know. I've done it. Many times
>>
>> regards
>>
>> dave
>>
>> www.hitechespresso.com
>
> Just to be sure, Dave, I'm talking about a Gaggia Dandy here, not a
> Classic. The housing is plastic, not metal, which is, I think, what
> Robert's concern is/was.
>
> SJM
>




  
Date: 05 Sep 2007 22:17:20
From: daveb
Subject: Re: mounting SSR internally in a classic.
OOPs.

apologies to harmon and for dishing b.s!

dave




   
Date: 06 Sep 2007 10:39:23
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: mounting SSR internally in a classic.
Apology accepted.

Do you know who the doofus is on eBay selling PID, SSR, & TC for $52? Throw
in an enclosure & you've got the whole ball of wax for less than $70, eh.
--
(Hey Dave, my email is setup to auto-forward your email messages back to you
& abuse@yahoo.com. Please don't send me email messages!)

Robert Harmon
--
http://www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj - My coffee pages.

http://www.tinyurl.com/2tnv87 - My 'Guidelines For Newbies' page.

http://www.tinyurl.com/2cr3e2 - I have things for sale here.
"daveb" <davebobbl@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:13e02u0hr6psuaf@corp.supernews.com...
> OOPs.
>
> apologies to harmon and for dishing b.s!
>
> dave
>




 
Date: 06 Sep 2007 00:40:32
From: lockjaw
Subject: Re: mounting SSR internally in a classic.
On Sep 5, 5:06 pm, "Robert Harmon" <Texas_Cof...@earthlink.net > wrote:
> The SSR needs a heat sink (either mount it directly on the machine chassis
> or use a separate unit). There's not a lot of room on the inside so consider
> a separate metal box for the PID & SSR combined.
>
> --
> Robert Harmon
>

Nonsense!

Are you looking down into the classic from the front with the top
off?

look to the right, just above the hole where the 'funnel' feeds water
into the clear plastic tank below.

Right there, just above that hole on the right interior wall of the
machine there is ample space to mount the SSR. Use #8 X 1/2" bolts,
stainless if you like, nuts and lockwashers.

It will be easier if you PRE-wire the SSR before mounting it to the
interior panel. use the grease on the metal portion of the SSR.

This area is safe and certainly cool enuf for the SSR, and will easily
dissipate the heat generated by the SSR when on.

I know. I've done it. Many times


regards

dave

www.hitechespresso.com



 
Date: 05 Sep 2007 16:10:23
From: SJM
Subject: Re: Dandy brew light problem being subverted by adding PID
On Sep 5, 3:58 pm, vo...@math.berkeley.edu (Paul Vojta) wrote:
> In article <1189029438.166441.147...@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>,
>
> SJM <cajamadimail-goo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >Okay, so that means that the paste isn't what I'm looking for. I got
> >that far.
>
> The paste will enhance heat conduction from the SSR to whatever it is
> bolted to.
>
> >What you're telling me is that if I get a larger metal box and put the
> >PID and the SSR inside it, the SSR will have a heat sink because it is
> >attached to the inside of one end of the box? It doesn't matter that
> >that box is going to be attached to that same non-metal housing that
> >won't function as a heat sink?
>
> That's correct. I think the metal box will dissipate enough heat --
> the SSR doesn't put out much heat, in my experience.
>
> --Paul Vojta, vo...@math.berkeley.edu

Omigosh and eureka !!! I just might have finally gotten it. I hadn't
grasped that the function of the heat sink was to dissipate heat. I
thought it was to conduct heat.....Guess I hadn't read my references
carefully enough.




  
Date: 05 Sep 2007 20:58:13
From: Craig Andrews
Subject: Re: Dandy brew light problem being subverted by adding PID

"SJM" <cajamadimail-google@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1189033823.959543.98970@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 5, 3:58 pm, vo...@math.berkeley.edu (Paul Vojta) wrote:
>> In article <1189029438.166441.147...@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>,
>>
>> SJM <cajamadimail-goo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Okay, so that means that the paste isn't what I'm looking for. I got
>> >that far.
>>
>> The paste will enhance heat conduction from the SSR to whatever it is
>> bolted to.
>>
>> >What you're telling me is that if I get a larger metal box and put the
>> >PID and the SSR inside it, the SSR will have a heat sink because it is
>> >attached to the inside of one end of the box? It doesn't matter that
>> >that box is going to be attached to that same non-metal housing that
>> >won't function as a heat sink?
>>
>> That's correct. I think the metal box will dissipate enough heat --
>> the SSR doesn't put out much heat, in my experience.
>>
>> --Paul Vojta, vo...@math.berkeley.edu
>
> Omigosh and eureka !!! I just might have finally gotten it. I hadn't
> grasped that the function of the heat sink was to dissipate heat. I
> thought it was to conduct heat.....Guess I hadn't read my references
> carefully enough.
>
>

I'm glad yer not at a nuclear reactor plant like Homer Simpson Susan! hehe
{;-O
Craig.



 
Date: 05 Sep 2007 15:03:14
From: SJM
Subject: Re: Dandy brew light problem being subverted by adding PID
On Sep 5, 2:57 pm, SJM <cajamadimail-goo...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Sep 5, 2:45 pm, Robert Harmon <r_h_har...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Sep 5, 4:13 pm, SJM <cajamadimail-goo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Sep 5, 2:06 pm, "Robert Harmon" <Texas_Cof...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > > > The SSR needs a heat sink (either mount it directly on the machine chassis
> > > > or use a separate unit). There's not a lot of room on the inside so consider
> > > > a separate metal box for the PID & SSR combined.
>
> > > > --
> > > > Robert Harmon
> > > > --http://www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj-Mycoffeepages.
>
> > > >http://www.tinyurl.com/2tnv87-My'GuidelinesFor Newbies' page.
>
> > > >http://www.tinyurl.com/2cr3e2-Ihavethings for sale here."SJM" <cajamadimail-goo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> > > >news:1189025886.980797.80850@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > > > So, I have all the parts for my PID kit here in front of me, and
> > > > > absolutely infallible directions for adding it to a Silvia, but this
> > > > > isn't a Silvia, and I have a couple of questions.
>
> > Heat Sink:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_sink
>
> > If I have bare metal finish as with a Classic or Silvia, I'd mount the
> > SSR on that. Since the surface of yours is painted I'd mount the SSR
> > on a separate heat sink.
>
> > > > > Well I'll start with the first one: if you've PID'ddd a Gaggia
> > > > > Espresso, for example, where did you put the SSR?
>
> > > > > I know, I know, but it's the first thing I'm supposed to do, and since
> > > > > I can't visualize how it all goes together, I'm not sure where to put
> > > > > it.
>
> > > > > SJM
>
> > > Okay, I know what a kitchen sink is, and a bathroom sink, but what is
> > > a heat sink????
>
> > > SJM
>
> Okay, so that means that the paste isn't what I'm looking for. I got
> that far.
>
> What you're telling me is that if I get a larger metal box and put the
> PID and the SSR inside it, the SSR will have a heat sink because it is
> attached to the inside of one end of the box? It doesn't matter that
> that box is going to be attached to that same non-metal housing that
> won't function as a heat sink?
>
> Dazed and Confused
> SJM

Can I put the SSR on the outside of the same box that the PID fits
into so perfectly?



  
Date: 05 Sep 2007 22:56:06
From: Paul Vojta
Subject: Re: Dandy brew light problem being subverted by adding PID
In article <1189029794.016815.200230@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com >,
SJM <cajamadimail-google@yahoo.com > wrote:
>
>Can I put the SSR on the outside of the same box that the PID fits
>into so perfectly?

You wouldn't want to do that, because of exposed 115V electrical connectors.

--Paul Vojta, vojta@math.berkeley.edu


 
Date: 05 Sep 2007 14:57:18
From: SJM
Subject: Re: Dandy brew light problem being subverted by adding PID
On Sep 5, 2:45 pm, Robert Harmon <r_h_har...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> On Sep 5, 4:13 pm, SJM <cajamadimail-goo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sep 5, 2:06 pm, "Robert Harmon" <Texas_Cof...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > > The SSR needs a heat sink (either mount it directly on the machine chassis
> > > or use a separate unit). There's not a lot of room on the inside so consider
> > > a separate metal box for the PID & SSR combined.
>
> > > --
> > > Robert Harmon
> > > --http://www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj-Mycoffee pages.
>
> > >http://www.tinyurl.com/2tnv87-My'Guidelines For Newbies' page.
>
> > >http://www.tinyurl.com/2cr3e2-Ihave things for sale here."SJM" <cajamadimail-goo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> > >news:1189025886.980797.80850@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > > So, I have all the parts for my PID kit here in front of me, and
> > > > absolutely infallible directions for adding it to a Silvia, but this
> > > > isn't a Silvia, and I have a couple of questions.
>
> Heat Sink:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_sink
>
> If I have bare metal finish as with a Classic or Silvia, I'd mount the
> SSR on that. Since the surface of yours is painted I'd mount the SSR
> on a separate heat sink.
>
>
>
> > > > Well I'll start with the first one: if you've PID'ddd a Gaggia
> > > > Espresso, for example, where did you put the SSR?
>
> > > > I know, I know, but it's the first thing I'm supposed to do, and since
> > > > I can't visualize how it all goes together, I'm not sure where to put
> > > > it.
>
> > > > SJM
>
> > Okay, I know what a kitchen sink is, and a bathroom sink, but what is
> > a heat sink????
>
> > SJM

Okay, so that means that the paste isn't what I'm looking for. I got
that far.

What you're telling me is that if I get a larger metal box and put the
PID and the SSR inside it, the SSR will have a heat sink because it is
attached to the inside of one end of the box? It doesn't matter that
that box is going to be attached to that same non-metal housing that
won't function as a heat sink?

Dazed and Confused
SJM



  
Date: 05 Sep 2007 22:58:50
From: Paul Vojta
Subject: Re: Dandy brew light problem being subverted by adding PID
In article <1189029438.166441.147220@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com >,
SJM <cajamadimail-google@yahoo.com > wrote:
>
>Okay, so that means that the paste isn't what I'm looking for. I got
>that far.

The paste will enhance heat conduction from the SSR to whatever it is
bolted to.

>What you're telling me is that if I get a larger metal box and put the
>PID and the SSR inside it, the SSR will have a heat sink because it is
>attached to the inside of one end of the box? It doesn't matter that
>that box is going to be attached to that same non-metal housing that
>won't function as a heat sink?

That's correct. I think the metal box will dissipate enough heat --
the SSR doesn't put out much heat, in my experience.

--Paul Vojta, vojta@math.berkeley.edu


 
Date: 05 Sep 2007 14:45:41
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Dandy brew light problem being subverted by adding PID
On Sep 5, 4:13 pm, SJM <cajamadimail-goo...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Sep 5, 2:06 pm, "Robert Harmon" <Texas_Cof...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > The SSR needs a heat sink (either mount it directly on the machine chassis
> > or use a separate unit). There's not a lot of room on the inside so consider
> > a separate metal box for the PID & SSR combined.
>
> > --
> > Robert Harmon
> > --http://www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj-My coffee pages.
>
> >http://www.tinyurl.com/2tnv87-My 'Guidelines For Newbies' page.
>
> >http://www.tinyurl.com/2cr3e2-I have things for sale here."SJM" <cajamadimail-goo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:1189025886.980797.80850@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > So, I have all the parts for my PID kit here in front of me, and
> > > absolutely infallible directions for adding it to a Silvia, but this
> > > isn't a Silvia, and I have a couple of questions.
Heat Sink: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_sink

If I have bare metal finish as with a Classic or Silvia, I'd mount the
SSR on that. Since the surface of yours is painted I'd mount the SSR
on a separate heat sink.
>
> > > Well I'll start with the first one: if you've PID'ddd a Gaggia
> > > Espresso, for example, where did you put the SSR?
>
> > > I know, I know, but it's the first thing I'm supposed to do, and since
> > > I can't visualize how it all goes together, I'm not sure where to put
> > > it.
>
> > > SJM
>
> Okay, I know what a kitchen sink is, and a bathroom sink, but what is
> a heat sink????
>
> SJM




 
Date: 05 Sep 2007 14:36:03
From: SJM
Subject: Re: Dandy brew light problem being subverted by adding PID
On Sep 5, 2:06 pm, "Robert Harmon" <Texas_Cof...@earthlink.net > wrote:
> The SSR needs a heat sink (either mount it directly on the machine chassis
> or use a separate unit). There's not a lot of room on the inside so consider
> a separate metal box for the PID & SSR combined.
>
> --
> Robert Harmon
> --http://www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj- My coffee pages.
>
> http://www.tinyurl.com/2tnv87- My 'Guidelines For Newbies' page.
>
> http://www.tinyurl.com/2cr3e2- I have things for sale here."SJM" <cajamadimail-goo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1189025886.980797.80850@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
> > So, I have all the parts for my PID kit here in front of me, and
> > absolutely infallible directions for adding it to a Silvia, but this
> > isn't a Silvia, and I have a couple of questions.
>
> > Well I'll start with the first one: if you've PID'ddd a Gaggia
> > Espresso, for example, where did you put the SSR?
>
> > I know, I know, but it's the first thing I'm supposed to do, and since
> > I can't visualize how it all goes together, I'm not sure where to put
> > it.
>
> > SJM

Nevermind, I see that I have a small packet here that says Silicone
Heat Sink Paste. Guess that answers my question, huh....



 
Date: 05 Sep 2007 14:35:45
From: SJM
Subject: Re: Dandy brew light problem being subverted by adding PID
On Sep 5, 2:06 pm, "Robert Harmon" <Texas_Cof...@earthlink.net > wrote:
> The SSR needs a heat sink (either mount it directly on the machine chassis
> or use a separate unit). There's not a lot of room on the inside so consider
> a separate metal box for the PID & SSR combined.
>
> --
> Robert Harmon
> --http://www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj- My coffee pages.
>
> http://www.tinyurl.com/2tnv87- My 'Guidelines For Newbies' page.
>
> http://www.tinyurl.com/2cr3e2- I have things for sale here."SJM" <cajamadimail-goo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1189025886.980797.80850@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
> > So, I have all the parts for my PID kit here in front of me, and
> > absolutely infallible directions for adding it to a Silvia, but this
> > isn't a Silvia, and I have a couple of questions.
>
> > Well I'll start with the first one: if you've PID'ddd a Gaggia
> > Espresso, for example, where did you put the SSR?
>
> > I know, I know, but it's the first thing I'm supposed to do, and since
> > I can't visualize how it all goes together, I'm not sure where to put
> > it.
>
> > SJM

Nevermind, I see that I have a small packet here that says Silicone
Heat Sink Paste. Guess that answers my question, huh....



 
Date: 05 Sep 2007 14:13:42
From: SJM
Subject: Re: Dandy brew light problem being subverted by adding PID
On Sep 5, 2:06 pm, "Robert Harmon" <Texas_Cof...@earthlink.net > wrote:
> The SSR needs a heat sink (either mount it directly on the machine chassis
> or use a separate unit). There's not a lot of room on the inside so consider
> a separate metal box for the PID & SSR combined.
>
> --
> Robert Harmon
> --http://www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj- My coffee pages.
>
> http://www.tinyurl.com/2tnv87- My 'Guidelines For Newbies' page.
>
> http://www.tinyurl.com/2cr3e2- I have things for sale here."SJM" <cajamadimail-goo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1189025886.980797.80850@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
> > So, I have all the parts for my PID kit here in front of me, and
> > absolutely infallible directions for adding it to a Silvia, but this
> > isn't a Silvia, and I have a couple of questions.
>
> > Well I'll start with the first one: if you've PID'ddd a Gaggia
> > Espresso, for example, where did you put the SSR?
>
> > I know, I know, but it's the first thing I'm supposed to do, and since
> > I can't visualize how it all goes together, I'm not sure where to put
> > it.
>
> > SJM

Okay, I know what a kitchen sink is, and a bathroom sink, but what is
a heat sink????


SJM



 
Date: 05 Sep 2007 16:06:43
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Dandy brew light problem being subverted by adding PID
The SSR needs a heat sink (either mount it directly on the machine chassis
or use a separate unit). There's not a lot of room on the inside so consider
a separate metal box for the PID & SSR combined.

--
Robert Harmon
--
http://www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj - My coffee pages.

http://www.tinyurl.com/2tnv87 - My 'Guidelines For Newbies' page.

http://www.tinyurl.com/2cr3e2 - I have things for sale here.
"SJM" <cajamadimail-google@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1189025886.980797.80850@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> So, I have all the parts for my PID kit here in front of me, and
> absolutely infallible directions for adding it to a Silvia, but this
> isn't a Silvia, and I have a couple of questions.
>
> Well I'll start with the first one: if you've PID'ddd a Gaggia
> Espresso, for example, where did you put the SSR?
>
> I know, I know, but it's the first thing I'm supposed to do, and since
> I can't visualize how it all goes together, I'm not sure where to put
> it.
>
> SJM
>