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Date: 24 Apr 2007 16:09:18
From: Christopher Tidy
Subject: Disappointed with Illy beans
Hi folks,

I just bought a can of Illy espresso beans. I expected them to be
exceptional, because they are quite expensive. But they seem weak and
seriously lacking in flavour and aroma. Almost as if they're stale,
although they came in a sealed tin.

Now I'm a bit unusual in that I like to buy strong coffee intended for
espresso, then make it as filter coffee. But it works fine with
Lavazza, Douwe Egberts and Waitrose coffee. I've tried this Illy
coffee in a cafetiere as well as with paper filters, and it still
doesn't seem up to much.

Do people think I somehow got a bad tin, or is Illy coffee generally
this poor? If there was an address on the tin for complaints I'd send
it back, it's that bad.

Best wishes,

Chris Tidy





 
Date: 25 Apr 2007 06:53:17
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Disappointed with Illy beans
On 24 Apr 2007 16:09:18 -0700, Christopher Tidy
<christopher.tidy@gmail.com > wrote:

>Hi folks,
>
>I just bought a can of Illy espresso beans. I expected them to be
>exceptional, because they are quite expensive. But they seem weak and
>seriously lacking in flavour and aroma. Almost as if they're stale,
>although they came in a sealed tin.

Illy is pleasant enough immediately after you open the tin. But they
stale about one month's worth in a day. I've always assumed their
flushing and packaging were designed for commercial use, where even
the big cans are used up in a day.

If you have the bucks for Illy, you have the money to buy the best
domestic roasts and have them shipped in.

You could consider home roasting, but you could also consider fly
casting, putting ships in bottles and other diverting hobbies. :-)

Marshall


  
Date: 25 Apr 2007 10:07:32
From: Ed Needham
Subject: Re: Disappointed with Illy beans

"Marshall" wrote in message
news:a0ut2351sbdplnk59jfls3g7e109r6s268@4ax.com...
<SNIP >
> You could consider home roasting, but you could also consider fly
> casting, putting ships in bottles and other diverting hobbies. :-)


Now you're talkin!
Where can I get the ships? I think I have a few bottles around here.
:::grin:::
--
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"
http://www.homeroaster.com
(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************




 
Date: 24 Apr 2007 22:27:54
From: Ed Needham
Subject: Re: Disappointed with Illy beans
You should consider homeroasting.
Always what you want. Always fresh. Makes people think you're magic.
--
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"
http://www.homeroaster.com
(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

"Christopher Tidy" <christopher.tidy@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1177456157.907834.150280@c18g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
> Hi folks,
>
> I just bought a can of Illy espresso beans. I expected them to be
> exceptional, because they are quite expensive. But they seem weak and
> seriously lacking in flavour and aroma. Almost as if they're stale,
> although they came in a sealed tin.
>
> Now I'm a bit unusual in that I like to buy strong coffee intended for
> espresso, then make it as filter coffee. But it works fine with
> Lavazza, Douwe Egberts and Waitrose coffee. I've tried this Illy
> coffee in a cafetiere as well as with paper filters, and it still
> doesn't seem up to much.
>
> Do people think I somehow got a bad tin, or is Illy coffee generally
> this poor? If there was an address on the tin for complaints I'd send
> it back, it's that bad.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Chris Tidy
>




 
Date: 25 Apr 2007 02:09:18
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: Disappointed with Illy beans


  
Date: 25 Apr 2007 12:44:00
From:
Subject: Re: Disappointed with Illy beans
David,

Illy may not meet your expectations but for some of us it is
exceptional. I prefer their dark "black" roast beans because they
provide a deep flavor and generous amount of rich crema.

With much of the talk in this group about the number of variables
involved in pulling the perfect shot would you not think that a
corporation that has a chemist (who has been committed to defining
what is required to produce a perfect shot) at the helm would be able
to produce a reliable, repetitive and quality product?

On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 02:09:18 GMT, ross@math.hawaii.NOSPAM.edu (D.
Ross) wrote:

>


   
Date: 25 Apr 2007 21:32:25
From: daveb
Subject: Disappointed with Illy beans
Really? if coffee beans were synthetic -- MAYBE.

but then, last I looked, coffee comes from a PLANT!

DAVE



<NoMail4AMD64@NoISP4Now.org > wrote in message
news:mjiu23p5v7tr229lg3ipgbmfh23sr57tsi@4ax.com...
> David,
>
> Illy may not meet your expectations but for some of us it is
> exceptional. I prefer their dark "black" roast beans because they
> provide a deep flavor and generous amount of rich crema.
>
> With much of the talk in this group about the number of variables
> involved in pulling the perfect shot would you not think that a
> corporation that has a chemist (who has been committed to defining
> what is required to produce a perfect shot) at the helm would be able
> to produce a reliable, repetitive and quality product?
>
> On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 02:09:18 GMT, ross@math.hawaii.NOSPAM.edu (D.
> Ross) wrote:
>
>>


    
Date: 26 Apr 2007 02:20:25
From: Steve
Subject: Re: Disappointed with Illy beans
On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 21:32:25 -0400, "daveb" <davebobblane@gmail.com >
wrote:

>Really? if coffee beans were synthetic -- MAYBE.
>
>but then, last I looked, coffee comes from a PLANT!

Gosh, you're an idiot.


     
Date: 26 Apr 2007 11:27:48
From: Herb Buschman
Subject: Re: Disappointed with Illy beans
On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 02:20:25 GMT, Steve <not@use.net > wrote:

>On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 21:32:25 -0400, "daveb" <davebobblane@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Really? if coffee beans were synthetic -- MAYBE.
>>
>>but then, last I looked, coffee comes from a PLANT!
>
>Gosh, you're an idiot.

I'll second that!


   
Date: 25 Apr 2007 19:05:28
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: Disappointed with Illy beans
NoMail4AMD64@NoISP4Now.org wrote:



    
Date: 25 Apr 2007 17:05:58
From: Steve Ackman
Subject: Re: Disappointed with Illy beans
In <462fa2bf.4087757@localhost >, on Wed, 25 Apr 2007 19:05:28 GMT, D.
Ross wrote:
>
> As I said, they do have a following. Taste is a subjective thing.

And if you don't like the taste of it, it's gotta be
cheaper than Rogaine.
http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/04-25-2007/0004573823&EDATE=



     
Date: 26 Apr 2007 03:22:23
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: Disappointed with Illy beans
Steve Ackman <steve@SNIP-THIS.twoloonscoffee.com > wrote:



  
Date: 25 Apr 2007 03:19:53
From: Christopher Tidy
Subject: Re: Disappointed with Illy beans
D. Ross wrote:
>


   
Date: 25 Apr 2007 09:19:04
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: Disappointed with Illy beans


    
Date: 03 May 2007 11:37:10
From: Danny
Subject: Re: Disappointed with Illy beans
D. Ross wrote:
-snip-
> If you really want an Italian prepackaged blend for some reason, I recommend
> Danesi Gold if you can find it locally. Or, you could see if Tazze d'Oro
> in Rome will ship to England.
>

Or you can try the Trucillo blend I use in the trailer if you get
anywhere near Portsmouth on your travels.


--
Regards, Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
(apparently bad grammar but I like it that way...)



    
Date: 02 May 2007 00:16:08
From: Stuart
Subject: Re: Disappointed with Illy beans
D. Ross wrote:

> The UK posters can help you find good alternative roasters; one list is at
> Ken Wilson's website, http://www.kwilson.fsnet.co.uk/UKsuppliers.htm. I can
> vouch for the espresso roast from Higgens, I have had wonderful espresso
> brewed from their blend.
>
>
> - David R.
> --
> Less information than you ever thought possible:
> http://www.demitasse.net

You could try


http://www.hvcoffee.com/

I have been using them for a few years.

Stuart






   
Date: 24 Apr 2007 21:23:51
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Disappointed with Illy beans
Christopher Tidy <cdt22NOSPAM@cantabgold.net > wrote:

>That's interesting. The first difference I noticed between the Illy
>beans and my Waitrose beans is that the Waitrose beans have a coating of
>an oily liquid on the beans when you first open the packet. The Illy
>beans do not. I think the oily coating evaporates with time. What is the
>reason for "prestaling" the beans?
>

A lot of oil on beans is _generally_ a sign that they were:
a) over-roasted
2) over-roasted because they were poor beans to begin with and
over-roasting covers the bad taste
III) were stored poorly
fore) have been sitting too long since roasting
v) any combination of the above.

Illy beans are generally good but lackluster- not bland, but nothing
special. Either you got a bad (old?) tin or some other problem
occurred (brewing, taste expectations, state of palate, etc.).

They are usually quite drinkable when opened, good enough to drink on
the day after opening, and just about ready for the dustbin two days
after opening (from my one experience with them). Oil generally does
not evaporate, but will get rancid and develop a particularly bad
aroma that leaves no doubt as to the state of the coffee. personally,
if there is oil on the outside of the beans I assume that there is
little flavor left on the inside.

And for what you get, Illy am too expensive. Better beans can be had
for less... IMO...


Randy "I am packed with gas, but that ain't nitrogen, Baby!" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com




    
Date: 25 Apr 2007 05:08:36
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: Disappointed with Illy beans
On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 21:23:51 -0700, Randy G. <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com >
wrote:

>A lot of oil on beans is _generally_ a sign that they were:
>a) over-roasted
>2) over-roasted because they were poor beans to begin with and
>over-roasting covers the bad taste
>III) were stored poorly
>fore) have been sitting too long since roasting
>v) any combination of the above.

sei) "pushed" during roasting; a quick roast at high temps can force
the oils to the surface on an otherwise not-too-dark roast.



 
Date: 25 Apr 2007 01:17:29
From: Bill (Adopt)
Subject: Re: Disappointed with Illy beans
In article <1177456157.907834.150280@c18g2000prb.googlegroups.com >,
Christopher Tidy <christopher.tidy@gmail.com > wrote:

[..]
> Do people think I somehow got a bad tin, or is Illy coffee generally
> this poor? If there was an address on the tin for complaints I'd send
> it back, it's that bad.

You may have a bad tin.. or it may just not be to your
taste. After all, whoever roasted that batch of beans
might have had a bad day ..perhaps screamed and pushed
out the house by his Sophie Loren Italian wife in full
venomous flow... ;))

Similar experience on more than one occasion here in GB.
(The coffee that is)! Not that Illy is bad, (I have yet
to gain sufficient experience to make that bold a
pronouncement), but that Illy at 4.99gbp compared to
Tesco's basic bean blend at 1.39gbp just doesn't compare.

Tesco's cheapest blend is, to me, decidedly better when
prepared as espresso or in drinks with an espresso base,
at least when prepared with a Cunill CT1 commercial type
grinder. It's not all that bad either when ground
suitably for filter coffee - although I think I still
prefer it as an 'Americanos', ie espresso added to a
base of hot(ish) water.

Moral of the tale: expense is not necessarily indicative
of everything, at least concerning the finer points of
an individual judgement of 'taste', 'flavour' or 'quality'.

Come to think of it, I rather believe that the Italians
also expect a basic and above all cheap (+Robusta) blend
in their espresso bars when certified as having reached
a fairly exacting standard for such.

My best guess? Experiment and go with what /you/ really
like ..not that which an inflated price or a pretty tin
suggests that which you 'should' appreciate... :))

hh :))

Bill ZFC

--
Adoption InterLink UK with -=- http://www.billsimpson.com/
Domain Host Orpheus Internet -=- http://www.orpheusinternet.co.uk/


  
Date: 25 Apr 2007 07:38:41
From: Moka Java
Subject: Re: Disappointed with Illy beans
Bill (Adopt) wrote:

..perhaps screamed and pushed
> out the house by his Sophie Loren Italian wife in full
> venomous flow... ;))
>

I had one of those!

R "used to have hair too" TF


  
Date: 25 Apr 2007 03:16:08
From: Christopher Tidy
Subject: Re: Disappointed with Illy beans
Bill (Adopt) wrote:
> In article <1177456157.907834.150280@c18g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
> Christopher Tidy <christopher.tidy@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> [..]
>
>>Do people think I somehow got a bad tin, or is Illy coffee generally
>>this poor? If there was an address on the tin for complaints I'd send
>>it back, it's that bad.
>
>
> You may have a bad tin.. or it may just not be to your
> taste. After all, whoever roasted that batch of beans
> might have had a bad day ..perhaps screamed and pushed
> out the house by his Sophie Loren Italian wife in full
> venomous flow... ;))
>
> Similar experience on more than one occasion here in GB.
> (The coffee that is)! Not that Illy is bad, (I have yet
> to gain sufficient experience to make that bold a
> pronouncement), but that Illy at 4.99gbp compared to
> Tesco's basic bean blend at 1.39gbp just doesn't compare.
>
> Tesco's cheapest blend is, to me, decidedly better when
> prepared as espresso or in drinks with an espresso base,
> at least when prepared with a Cunill CT1 commercial type
> grinder. It's not all that bad either when ground
> suitably for filter coffee - although I think I still
> prefer it as an 'Americanos', ie espresso added to a
> base of hot(ish) water.
>
> Moral of the tale: expense is not necessarily indicative
> of everything, at least concerning the finer points of
> an individual judgement of 'taste', 'flavour' or 'quality'.
>
> Come to think of it, I rather believe that the Italians
> also expect a basic and above all cheap (+Robusta) blend
> in their espresso bars when certified as having reached
> a fairly exacting standard for such.
>
> My best guess? Experiment and go with what /you/ really
> like ..not that which an inflated price or a pretty tin
> suggests that which you 'should' appreciate... :))

Thanks for the thoughts, Bill. The Illy beans in my opinion really are
outstandingly bad. Some of the poorest beans I've ever bought,
comparable to the poorest cheap no-name beans I've bought from market
stalls. I've also bought some Tesco beans (though I forget which kind as
I don't go to Tesco often - I think they were something like £2 to £2.50
for 250 g). The Tesco beans, although I thought they were better than
the Illy, still weren't really to my taste. I can cope with a somewhat
bitter coffee so long as it has a really rich flavour. My current
favourites are Waitrose coffee (all the Waitrose varieties seem to taste
similar) or Lavazza. Lavazza makes a very nice, strong filter coffee in
my opinion.

I'll experiment with some more exotic kinds of coffee when I get the
coffee machine of my dreams. One day I'm going to buy a Faema E61...

Best wishes,

Chris