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Date: 17 Feb 2007 17:41:10
From: wantcrema
Subject: Do I need a double boiler?
Upgrade fever and leaving PID'd Silvia for either double boiler or hx
machine. I have a budget of around $2000 and want to be able to pull
great shots and easily make milk-based drinks - in fact, I'm mostly a
latte gal. I'd like to be able to pull back to back shots and steam at
the same time. Can't plumb in.

I'm leaning toward a La Valentina but wondering if I really should go
with a dual boiler like the Brewtus II. Width an issue, can't go wider
than 13 inches.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks!





 
Date: 20 Feb 2007 12:11:20
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Do I need a double boiler?
On Feb 20, 1:31 pm, Danny <d...@nospam.gaggia-espresso.com > wrote:
> wantcrema wrote:
> >>Hmm, what about one of my 'pid' HX machines?
>
> >>and btw, I heard the brutus is a DOG. -- not direct experience.
>
> >>Davewww.hitechespresso.com
>
> > But it's the vetrano you sell, correct? I can't plumb in so it's not
> > an option for me.
>
> Consider that a lucky escape. A seller of HX machines who a year ago
> hated HX machines, and who frequently touts his business on this group
> despite repeated requests that he not do so and who will not behave in
> a polite fashion (see "stealth PID" thread above).
>
> --
> Regards, Danny
>
> http://www.gaggia-espresso.com(a purely hobby site)

Uh, Danny?
the questioner is already a happy customer of mine. but thanks for
the input.



 
Date: 20 Feb 2007 11:42:21
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Do I need a double boiler?
On Feb 19, 6:49 pm, "wantcrema" <capsti...@mindspring.com > wrote:
> On Feb 19, 3:04 pm, "daveb" <davebobbl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 17, 8:41 pm, "wantcrema" <capsti...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> > > Upgrade fever and leaving PID'd Silvia for either double boiler or hx
> > > machine. I have a budget of around $2000 and want to be able to pull
> > > great shots and easily make milk-based drinks - in fact, I'm mostly a
> > > latte gal. I'd like to be able to pull back to back shots and steam at
> > > the same time. Can't plumb in.
>
> > > I'm leaning toward a La Valentina but wondering if I really should go
> > > with a dual boiler like the Brewtus II. Width an issue, can't go wider
> > > than 13 inches.
>
> > > Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks!
>
> > Hmm, what about one of my 'pid' HX machines?
>
> > and btw, I heard the brutus is a DOG. -- not direct experience.
>
> > Dave
www.hitechespresso.com
>
> But it's the vetrano you sell, correct? I can't plumb in so it's not
> an option for me.

NOT just the vetrano, but the non-plumbed Quick Mill Andreja and the
non-plumbed Anita. (2 DOZEN quickmills done to date)

customer references happily provided.

thanx

Dave
www.hitechespresso.com
Saeco / Gaggia service SE



 
Date: 20 Feb 2007 11:39:29
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Do I need a double boiler?
On Feb 20, 1:31 pm, Danny <d...@nospam.gaggia-espresso.com > wrote:
> wantcrema wrote:
> >>Hmm, what about one of my 'pid' HX machines?
>
> >>and btw, I heard the brutus is a DOG. -- not direct experience.
>
> >>Dave
www.hitechespresso.com
>
> > But it's the vetrano you sell, correct? I can't plumb in so it's not
> > an option for me.
>
> Consider that a lucky escape. A seller of HX machines who a year ago
> hated HX machines, and who frequently touts his business on this group
> despite repeated requests that he not do so and who will not behave in
> a polite fashion (see "stealth PID" thread above).

I hate /hated them with pressurestats.

I / we (my customers) LOVE them with my pid install.


> --
> Regards, Danny


"Oh Danny boy, the pipes, the pipes are calling
>From glen to glen, and down the mountain side
The summer's gone, and all the flowers are dying
Tis you, 'tis you must go and I must bide."



 
Date: 19 Feb 2007 15:49:01
From: wantcrema
Subject: Re: Do I need a double boiler?
On Feb 19, 3:04 pm, "daveb" <davebobbl...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Feb 17, 8:41 pm, "wantcrema" <capsti...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> > Upgrade fever and leaving PID'd Silvia for either double boiler or hx
> > machine. I have a budget of around $2000 and want to be able to pull
> > great shots and easily make milk-based drinks - in fact, I'm mostly a
> > latte gal. I'd like to be able to pull back to back shots and steam at
> > the same time. Can't plumb in.
>
> > I'm leaning toward a La Valentina but wondering if I really should go
> > with a dual boiler like the Brewtus II. Width an issue, can't go wider
> > than 13 inches.
>
> > Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks!
>
> Hmm, what about one of my 'pid' HX machines?
>
> and btw, I heard the brutus is a DOG. -- not direct experience.
>
> Davewww.hitechespresso.com

But it's the vetrano you sell, correct? I can't plumb in so it's not
an option for me.



  
Date: 20 Feb 2007 18:31:09
From: Danny
Subject: Re: Do I need a double boiler?
wantcrema wrote:

>>Hmm, what about one of my 'pid' HX machines?
>>
>>and btw, I heard the brutus is a DOG. -- not direct experience.
>>
>>Davewww.hitechespresso.com
>
>
> But it's the vetrano you sell, correct? I can't plumb in so it's not
> an option for me.
>

Consider that a lucky escape. A seller of HX machines who a year ago
hated HX machines, and who frequently touts his business on this group
despite repeated requests that he not do so and who will not behave in
a polite fashion (see "stealth PID" thread above).


--
Regards, Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)



 
Date: 19 Feb 2007 12:04:19
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Do I need a double boiler?
On Feb 17, 8:41 pm, "wantcrema" <capsti...@mindspring.com > wrote:
> Upgrade fever and leaving PID'd Silvia for either double boiler or hx
> machine. I have a budget of around $2000 and want to be able to pull
> great shots and easily make milk-based drinks - in fact, I'm mostly a
> latte gal. I'd like to be able to pull back to back shots and steam at
> the same time. Can't plumb in.
>
> I'm leaning toward a La Valentina but wondering if I really should go
> with a dual boiler like the Brewtus II. Width an issue, can't go wider
> than 13 inches.
>
> Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks!

Hmm, what about one of my 'pid' HX machines?

and btw, I heard the brutus is a DOG. -- not direct experience.

Dave
www.hitechespresso.com



 
Date: 18 Feb 2007 11:14:32
From: ramboorider@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Do I need a double boiler?
On Feb 17, 8:41 pm, "wantcrema" <capsti...@mindspring.com > wrote:
> I'm mostly a
> latte gal. I'd like to be able to pull back to back shots and steam at
> the same time. Can't plumb in.

If you're doing a lot of milk drinks and rarely straight shots,
there's not much downside to an HX machine, I don't think. An HX
machine allows you to pull shots and then steam immediately
(simultaneously?). And can probably handle back to back and then some.
The disadvantage of HX, as I understand it, is that nailing the right
temperature for pulling shots good enough to drink straight is a bit
of a learning process and an ongoing process, with flushing and
whatnot. But you're shots don't need to be perfect in a milk drink -
just reasonable. Hell, I had a latte at Starbucks the other day (out
of town, nothing else nearby) and it was perfectly tolerable. But I'd
NEVER drink a straight shot there. You can do much better than that
with an HX, so that should be more than good enough.

I'd think a double boiler would be most desireable if you did a lot of
milk drinks AND a lot of straight shots and wanted really good
temperature stability at all times for the shots. I'm kind of in that
boat, but nowhere close to upgrading, so I'm making do with a PID
Silvia and keeping the volume down to several per day. But that
doesn't sound like your situation.

-Ray



 
Date: 18 Feb 2007 08:55:40
From: Flasherly
Subject: Re: Do I need a double boiler?
On Feb 18, 10:20 am, "wantcrema" <capsti...@mindspring.com > wrote:
> On Feb 18, 4:43 am, Danny <d...@nospam.gaggia-espresso.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > wantcrema wrote:
> > > Upgrade fever and leaving PID'd Silvia for either double boiler or hx
> > > machine. I have a budget of around $2000 and want to be able to pull
> > > great shots and easily make milk-based drinks - in fact, I'm mostly a
> > > latte gal. I'd like to be able to pull back to back shots and steam at
> > > the same time. Can't plumb in.
>
> > > I'm leaning toward a La Valentina but wondering if I really should go
> > > with a dual boiler like the Brewtus II. Width an issue, can't go wider
> > > than 13 inches.
>
> > > Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks!
>
> > Or two Silvias! One for steam (no PID needed) plus your original one
> > for brewing. Make a custom housing too :)
>
> > --
> > Regards, Danny
>
> >http://www.gaggia-espresso.com(apurely hobby site)
>
> Not enough room for another silvia, but good idea! While the La
> Spaziale S1 Vivaldi looks great, I think it needs to be plumbed in and
> is a bit too wide for my counter. Flasherfly, good idea about looking
> at the trade publications.


Right, that's what I said when I put a screw into La Pavoni. I'm a
tier below you -- two if counting the PID. The reviewer I most like,
some fellow's muckings about a Pavoni, in UK, I qualified for whose
sense of coffee is by no measure valuation exceeds. Believe he may
have mentioned a Miss Silvia, (either that or had a good corner pub
for a sport with a proper drink). . . anyhow, what he did is to buy
himself an Europoccola to review, but, because he couldn't hit the
grind, he also bought a Isomac Tea whilst waiting for a grinder to
arrive. Cutesy, eh? All top-notch machines, though, the Pavoni and
Miss Silvia (the Isomac I'd initially give the benefit of the doubt
within allowances for an ECM). The difficulty I'm encountering, is in
spending seven- to fourteen-hundred percent over my present machine
allowance, linearly across over second-tier projections, to compound
resulting drinks for a medial taste derived, say, at tenfold over.
Don't get me wrong. . . I work within $1K to 3K off any given ket
investment profits, so its hardly more than an exerecise in
imperatives. That, and some degree of effort to attained from minimal
expenditures, (do permit at joke at my own expenses, as reactions to
my machine can vary from a piece of crap to the best value entry money
can buy), a rather tasty cappuccino - indeed, I should say.

Personally, I don't think it's easy to go wrong within provided
resource measures. Staying within regressive means -- in keting
terms, what most people longest regard for a probable likelihood
fortuitous future events envelope -- is by a same effort derived in
selecting a commercial-grade mechanism from a bases of the most
consistently satisfied customers. Happy pickings, in any event,
WantsCream.



 
Date: 18 Feb 2007 07:20:22
From: wantcrema
Subject: Re: Do I need a double boiler?
On Feb 18, 4:43 am, Danny <d...@nospam.gaggia-espresso.com > wrote:
> wantcrema wrote:
> > Upgrade fever and leaving PID'd Silvia for either double boiler or hx
> > machine. I have a budget of around $2000 and want to be able to pull
> > great shots and easily make milk-based drinks - in fact, I'm mostly a
> > latte gal. I'd like to be able to pull back to back shots and steam at
> > the same time. Can't plumb in.
>
> > I'm leaning toward a La Valentina but wondering if I really should go
> > with a dual boiler like the Brewtus II. Width an issue, can't go wider
> > than 13 inches.
>
> > Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks!
>
> Or two Silvias! One for steam (no PID needed) plus your original one
> for brewing. Make a custom housing too :)
>
> --
> Regards, Danny
>
> http://www.gaggia-espresso.com(a purely hobby site)

Not enough room for another silvia, but good idea! While the La
Spaziale S1 Vivaldi looks great, I think it needs to be plumbed in and
is a bit too wide for my counter. Flasherfly, good idea about looking
at the trade publications.



 
Date: 18 Feb 2007 09:43:57
From: Danny
Subject: Re: Do I need a double boiler?
wantcrema wrote:
> Upgrade fever and leaving PID'd Silvia for either double boiler or hx
> machine. I have a budget of around $2000 and want to be able to pull
> great shots and easily make milk-based drinks - in fact, I'm mostly a
> latte gal. I'd like to be able to pull back to back shots and steam at
> the same time. Can't plumb in.
>
> I'm leaning toward a La Valentina but wondering if I really should go
> with a dual boiler like the Brewtus II. Width an issue, can't go wider
> than 13 inches.
>
> Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks!
>

Or two Silvias! One for steam (no PID needed) plus your original one
for brewing. Make a custom housing too :)

--
Regards, Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)



 
Date: 18 Feb 2007 09:42:43
From: Danny
Subject: Re: Do I need a double boiler?
wantcrema wrote:
> Upgrade fever and leaving PID'd Silvia for either double boiler or hx
> machine. I have a budget of around $2000 and want to be able to pull
> great shots and easily make milk-based drinks - in fact, I'm mostly a
> latte gal. I'd like to be able to pull back to back shots and steam at
> the same time. Can't plumb in.
>
> I'm leaning toward a La Valentina but wondering if I really should go
> with a dual boiler like the Brewtus II. Width an issue, can't go wider
> than 13 inches.
>
> Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks!
>

If you make a lot of milk drinks, then double boiler could be the way
forward with your budget. La Spaziale S1 Vivaldi comes to mind as
being recommended here before, but no personal experience myself...

--
Regards, Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)



 
Date: 18 Feb 2007 01:37:46
From: Flasherly
Subject: Re: Do I need a double boiler?
On Feb 17, 8:41 pm, "wantcrema" <capsti...@mindspring.com > wrote:
> Upgrade fever and leaving PID'd Silvia for either double boiler or hx
> machine. I have a budget of around $2000 and want to be able to pull
> great shots and easily make milk-based drinks - in fact, I'm mostly a
> latte gal. I'd like to be able to pull back to back shots and steam at
> the same time. Can't plumb in.
>
> I'm leaning toward a La Valentina but wondering if I really should go
> with a dual boiler like the Brewtus II. Width an issue, can't go wider
> than 13 inches.
>
> Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks!


Got your hands full. Between commercial and consumer reviews, a nice
balance should be available. I'd approach from the greater number,
narrow the choices, and note the dates especially for late updates.
Hit the trade publication reviews or links provided by the
manufacturer to flesh them out. Last, a selection may include a wide
support base of endusers and specific sites to determine maintenance
factors and machine characteristics.

Here's as good a start as any -

http://www.coffeegeek.com/reviews/commercial?Page=1&Sort=reviews&Order=0&SeeAll=1