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Date: 26 Nov 2006 16:56:25
From: lloydp
Subject: E61 Opinions wanted please
Well, I've had my Silvia for some time now and I am very pleased with
it. But I'm starting to get the bug again and thinking about moving to
an E61 equipped machine. But I can't try one as no one is selling them
where I live, and I want some opinions on what the E61 head does for
me.

Background: I drink mostly long pulls (cafe cremas) with an occasional
latte or cap, but never straight espresso shots. I make about 4-6 cups
a day, everyday.

So what is the E61 supposed to give me in the cup compared to what
Silvia can do now?

Also, some suggestions on E61 machines would be welcome. And as you
can see that I don't do a lot of milk drinks, the steaming isn't really
critical.

thanks in advance





 
Date: 27 Nov 2006 06:29:18
From: lloydp
Subject: Re: E61 ?? why?
I tend to lighter roasts as a matter of preference. I seldom take
anything beyond Full City when I roast, even for espresso.


On Nov 27, 5:18 am, "R@L" <r...@usenet.com > wrote:
> Like a lighter roast for cafe creme.
>
> --
> Ronald
>
> "lloydp" <lloydpars...@mac.com> wrote in messagenews:1164596198.648115.178360@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Such as?
>
> > On Nov 26, 8:52 pm, "daveb" <davebobbl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> "E61" doe not necessarily equal a good or bad result whatsoever.
>
> >> There are many other factors to be concerned with.
>
> >> lloydp wrote:
> >> > Well, I've had my Silvia for some time now and I am very pleased with
> >> > it. But I'm starting to get the bug again and thinking about moving to
> >> > an E61 equipped machine. But I can't try one as no one is selling them
> >> > where I live, and I want some opinions on what the E61 head does for
> >> > me.
>
> >> > Background: I drink mostly long pulls (cafe cremas) with an occasional
> >> > latte or cap, but never straight espresso shots. I make about 4-6 cups
> >> > a day, everyday.
>
> >> > So what is the E61 supposed to give me in the cup compared to what
> >> > Silvia can do now?
>
> >> > Also, some suggestions on E61 machines would be welcome. And as you
> >> > can see that I don't do a lot of milk drinks, the steaming isn't really
> >> > critical.
>
> >> > thanks in advance- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -



 
Date: 26 Nov 2006 18:56:38
From: lloydp
Subject: Re: E61 ?? why?

Such as?

On Nov 26, 8:52 pm, "daveb" <davebobbl...@gmail.com > wrote:
> "E61" doe not necessarily equal a good or bad result whatsoever.
>
> There are many other factors to be concerned with.
>
>
>
> lloydp wrote:
> > Well, I've had my Silvia for some time now and I am very pleased with
> > it. But I'm starting to get the bug again and thinking about moving to
> > an E61 equipped machine. But I can't try one as no one is selling them
> > where I live, and I want some opinions on what the E61 head does for
> > me.
>
> > Background: I drink mostly long pulls (cafe cremas) with an occasional
> > latte or cap, but never straight espresso shots. I make about 4-6 cups
> > a day, everyday.
>
> > So what is the E61 supposed to give me in the cup compared to what
> > Silvia can do now?
>
> > Also, some suggestions on E61 machines would be welcome. And as you
> > can see that I don't do a lot of milk drinks, the steaming isn't really
> > critical.
>
> > thanks in advance- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -



  
Date: 27 Nov 2006 12:18:25
From: R@L
Subject: Re: E61 ?? why?
Like a lighter roast for cafe creme.

--
Ronald


"lloydp" <lloydparsons@mac.com > wrote in message
news:1164596198.648115.178360@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Such as?
>
> On Nov 26, 8:52 pm, "daveb" <davebobbl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> "E61" doe not necessarily equal a good or bad result whatsoever.
>>
>> There are many other factors to be concerned with.
>>
>>
>>
>> lloydp wrote:
>> > Well, I've had my Silvia for some time now and I am very pleased with
>> > it. But I'm starting to get the bug again and thinking about moving to
>> > an E61 equipped machine. But I can't try one as no one is selling them
>> > where I live, and I want some opinions on what the E61 head does for
>> > me.
>>
>> > Background: I drink mostly long pulls (cafe cremas) with an occasional
>> > latte or cap, but never straight espresso shots. I make about 4-6 cups
>> > a day, everyday.
>>
>> > So what is the E61 supposed to give me in the cup compared to what
>> > Silvia can do now?
>>
>> > Also, some suggestions on E61 machines would be welcome. And as you
>> > can see that I don't do a lot of milk drinks, the steaming isn't really
>> > critical.
>>
>> > thanks in advance- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -
>




 
Date: 26 Nov 2006 18:56:05
From: lloydp
Subject: Re: E61 Opinions wanted please


On Nov 26, 8:48 pm, "Coffee for Connoisseurs"
<alanf...@coffeeco.com.au > wrote:
> Cafe Crema on an E-61 is the same as for any other machine; get the grind &
> dose right and the extraction follows perforce. A shot time of 25 seconds
> (using a double basket) works for me. HV (Rob) was in Sydney a couple of
> weeks ago, helping Ian Bersten test the new Sunbeam EM6910; I spoke to them
> by phone.
>
> --
> Alan
>
> alanf...@coffeeco.com.auwww.coffeeco.com.au

Hmm...

I've been using a shot time of about 40 seconds. I'll tighten the tamp
or change the grind to shorten the time and see what happens.

thanks



 
Date: 26 Nov 2006 18:52:05
From: daveb
Subject: Re: E61 ?? why?
"E61" doe not necessarily equal a good or bad result whatsoever.

There are many other factors to be concerned with.


lloydp wrote:
> Well, I've had my Silvia for some time now and I am very pleased with
> it. But I'm starting to get the bug again and thinking about moving to
> an E61 equipped machine. But I can't try one as no one is selling them
> where I live, and I want some opinions on what the E61 head does for
> me.
>
> Background: I drink mostly long pulls (cafe cremas) with an occasional
> latte or cap, but never straight espresso shots. I make about 4-6 cups
> a day, everyday.
>
> So what is the E61 supposed to give me in the cup compared to what
> Silvia can do now?
>
> Also, some suggestions on E61 machines would be welcome. And as you
> can see that I don't do a lot of milk drinks, the steaming isn't really
> critical.
>
> thanks in advance



 
Date: 26 Nov 2006 18:21:55
From: lloydp
Subject: Re: E61 Opinions wanted please
That is what I was thinking. A 6-7 oz pull has to pull the temp down.
But to be honest, the cafe cremas are very good with Miss Silvia.


On Nov 26, 8:04 pm, gsc...@earthlink.net wrote:
> I'm guessing you might see an improvement over the Silvia since the
> Silvia boiler is so small, but I don't know for sure as I've never done
> a lot of cafe cremas.
>
> -Greg
>
>
>
> lloydp wrote:
> > Well, I've had my Silvia for some time now and I am very pleased with
> > it. But I'm starting to get the bug again and thinking about moving to
> > an E61 equipped machine. But I can't try one as no one is selling them
> > where I live, and I want some opinions on what the E61 head does for
> > me.
>
> > Background: I drink mostly long pulls (cafe cremas) with an occasional
> > latte or cap, but never straight espresso shots. I make about 4-6 cups
> > a day, everyday.
>
> > So what is the E61 supposed to give me in the cup compared to what
> > Silvia can do now?
>
> > Also, some suggestions on E61 machines would be welcome. And as you
> > can see that I don't do a lot of milk drinks, the steaming isn't really
> > critical.
>
> > thanks in advance- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -



  
Date: 27 Nov 2006 07:47:50
From: Dan Bollinger
Subject: Re: E61 Opinions wanted please
> That is what I was thinking. A 6-7 oz pull has to pull the temp down.
> But to be honest, the cafe cremas are very good with Miss Silvia.

With that much water going through, you might run out of hot water on an E61
machine if it is powered by a smallish heat exchanger. I make Americanos with my
E61 Isomac Millenium. It's heater, boiler, and HX are typical of prosumer E61s.
To make a cup, if the machine has been idle, which is usually the case, I need
to purge 6 oz. of water to get the temperature down to brew temp, about 200.
Then I pull a double shot using 2 oz. of water. At this point I dump my puck and
rinse it under the grouphead. I suppose that takes another 2 oz. At this point
the water temperature is beginning to drop a little. Finally, I put my mug under
the grouphead (with clean, empty PF reinstalled) and add 6 oz. of water. I
think I measured this water temperature once and it was about 180 My guess is
that on my E61 machine making Cafe Cremas means you'll be starting out with 200
water and at the end of the shot you'll be at about 190. Hope this helps.

Dan

>
> On Nov 26, 8:04 pm, gsc...@earthlink.net wrote:
>> I'm guessing you might see an improvement over the Silvia since the
>> Silvia boiler is so small, but I don't know for sure as I've never done
>> a lot of cafe cremas.
>>
>> -Greg
>>
>>
>>
>> lloydp wrote:
>> > Well, I've had my Silvia for some time now and I am very pleased with
>> > it. But I'm starting to get the bug again and thinking about moving to
>> > an E61 equipped machine. But I can't try one as no one is selling them
>> > where I live, and I want some opinions on what the E61 head does for
>> > me.
>>
>> > Background: I drink mostly long pulls (cafe cremas) with an occasional
>> > latte or cap, but never straight espresso shots. I make about 4-6 cups
>> > a day, everyday.
>>
>> > So what is the E61 supposed to give me in the cup compared to what
>> > Silvia can do now?
>>
>> > Also, some suggestions on E61 machines would be welcome. And as you
>> > can see that I don't do a lot of milk drinks, the steaming isn't really
>> > critical.
>>
>> > thanks in advance- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -
>



  
Date: 27 Nov 2006 02:48:35
From: Coffee for Connoisseurs
Subject: Re: E61 Opinions wanted please
Cafe Crema on an E-61 is the same as for any other machine; get the grind &
dose right and the extraction follows perforce. A shot time of 25 seconds
(using a double basket) works for me. HV (Rob) was in Sydney a couple of
weeks ago, helping Ian Bersten test the new Sunbeam EM6910; I spoke to them
by phone.


--
Alan

alanfrew@coffeeco.com.au
www.coffeeco.com.au




 
Date: 26 Nov 2006 18:19:53
From: lloydp
Subject: Re: E61 Opinions wanted please


On Nov 26, 7:44 pm, shall <mrf...@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote:
> On 26 Nov 2006 16:56:25 -0800, "lloydp" <lloydpars...@mac.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >Well, I've had my Silvia for some time now and I am very pleased with
> >it. But I'm starting to get the bug again and thinking about moving to
> >an E61 equipped machine. But I can't try one as no one is selling them
> >where I live, and I want some opinions on what the E61 head does for
> >me.
>
> >Background: I drink mostly long pulls (cafe cremas) with an occasional
> >latte or cap, but never straight espresso shots. I make about 4-6 cups
> >a day, everyday.
>
> >So what is the E61 supposed to give me in the cup compared to what
> >Silvia can do now?
>
> >Also, some suggestions on E61 machines would be welcome. And as you
> >can see that I don't do a lot of milk drinks, the steaming isn't really
> >critical.
>
> >thanks in advanceYou probably won't find many cafe crema fans here. But the formerly
> prolific and very knowledgeable "HV" of the Netherlands was a big fan,
> who made them on his Reneka Techno. He was of the opinion that short
> extraction times were critical to a good cafe crema, as the additional
> water risked extracting too many of the nasty flavors late in the
> pour.
>
> E-61's add about 7 seconds of pre-infusion to each shot. Although that
> is normally a good thing, I wonder if it risks an over-extraction in a
> cafe crema.
>
> shall- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -

I hadn't really thought about the pre-infusion although I knew about
it.

I haven't found many in any of the coffee forums that talk about cafe
cremas, but was hoping this group might have a broader experience
range.

thanks



 
Date: 26 Nov 2006 18:04:37
From:
Subject: Re: E61 Opinions wanted please
I'm guessing you might see an improvement over the Silvia since the
Silvia boiler is so small, but I don't know for sure as I've never done
a lot of cafe cremas.

-Greg


lloydp wrote:
> Well, I've had my Silvia for some time now and I am very pleased with
> it. But I'm starting to get the bug again and thinking about moving to
> an E61 equipped machine. But I can't try one as no one is selling them
> where I live, and I want some opinions on what the E61 head does for
> me.
>
> Background: I drink mostly long pulls (cafe cremas) with an occasional
> latte or cap, but never straight espresso shots. I make about 4-6 cups
> a day, everyday.
>
> So what is the E61 supposed to give me in the cup compared to what
> Silvia can do now?
>
> Also, some suggestions on E61 machines would be welcome. And as you
> can see that I don't do a lot of milk drinks, the steaming isn't really
> critical.
>
> thanks in advance



 
Date: 27 Nov 2006 01:44:23
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: E61 Opinions wanted please
On 26 Nov 2006 16:56:25 -0800, "lloydp" <lloydparsons@mac.com > wrote:

>Well, I've had my Silvia for some time now and I am very pleased with
>it. But I'm starting to get the bug again and thinking about moving to
>an E61 equipped machine. But I can't try one as no one is selling them
>where I live, and I want some opinions on what the E61 head does for
>me.
>
>Background: I drink mostly long pulls (cafe cremas) with an occasional
>latte or cap, but never straight espresso shots. I make about 4-6 cups
>a day, everyday.
>
>So what is the E61 supposed to give me in the cup compared to what
>Silvia can do now?
>
>Also, some suggestions on E61 machines would be welcome. And as you
>can see that I don't do a lot of milk drinks, the steaming isn't really
>critical.
>
>thanks in advance

You probably won't find many cafe crema fans here. But the formerly
prolific and very knowledgeable "HV" of the Netherlands was a big fan,
who made them on his Reneka Techno. He was of the opinion that short
extraction times were critical to a good cafe crema, as the additional
water risked extracting too many of the nasty flavors late in the
pour.

E-61's add about 7 seconds of pre-infusion to each shot. Although that
is normally a good thing, I wonder if it risks an over-extraction in a
cafe crema.

shall


  
Date: 27 Nov 2006 02:07:10
From: Alan
Subject: Re: E61 Opinions wanted please

"shall" wrote [ ... ]
> E-61's add about 7 seconds of pre-infusion to each shot. Although that
> is normally a good thing, I wonder if it risks an over-extraction in a
> cafe crema.

I'm probably revealing my ignorance of how e-61's work, but I thought that
what they did was circulate water to keep a consistent group head
temperature. How is it that they add 7 seconds of pre-infusion?




   
Date: 27 Nov 2006 04:06:18
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: E61 Opinions wanted please
On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 02:07:10 GMT, "Alan" <in_flagrante@hotmail.com >
wrote:

>
>"shall" wrote [ ... ]
>> E-61's add about 7 seconds of pre-infusion to each shot. Although that
>> is normally a good thing, I wonder if it risks an over-extraction in a
>> cafe crema.
>
>I'm probably revealing my ignorance of how e-61's work, but I thought that
>what they did was circulate water to keep a consistent group head
>temperature. How is it that they add 7 seconds of pre-infusion?

It's the key innovation of the E-61 patent:

http://www.home-barista.com/vetrano-buyers-guide-conclusion.html .

Full brew head pressure is not reached until a chamber that descends
from the back of the brew head is filled. The chamber flushes out at
the end of each shot.

shall


    
Date: 28 Nov 2006 00:43:10
From: Alan
Subject: Re: E61 Opinions wanted please

"shall" <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote in message
news:cnokm2dfrni9febb6g8m6ulbiovpsver7g@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 02:07:10 GMT, "Alan" <in_flagrante@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"shall" wrote [ ... ]
>>> E-61's add about 7 seconds of pre-infusion to each shot. Although that
>>> is normally a good thing, I wonder if it risks an over-extraction in a
>>> cafe crema.
>>
>>I'm probably revealing my ignorance of how e-61's work, but I thought that
>>what they did was circulate water to keep a consistent group head
>>temperature. How is it that they add 7 seconds of pre-infusion?
>
> It's the key innovation of the E-61 patent:
>
> http://www.home-barista.com/vetrano-buyers-guide-conclusion.html .
>
> Full brew head pressure is not reached until a chamber that descends
> from the back of the brew head is filled. The chamber flushes out at
> the end of each shot.

Thanks for the info




   
Date: 27 Nov 2006 15:27:12
From: Brent
Subject: Re: E61 Opinions wanted please
>
> "shall" wrote [ ... ]
>> E-61's add about 7 seconds of pre-infusion to each shot. Although that
>> is normally a good thing, I wonder if it risks an over-extraction in a
>> cafe crema.
>
> I'm probably revealing my ignorance of how e-61's work, but I thought that
> what they did was circulate water to keep a consistent group head
> temperature. How is it that they add 7 seconds of pre-infusion?

define pre-infusion...




    
Date: 27 Nov 2006 04:07:00
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: E61 Opinions wanted please
On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 15:27:12 +1300, "Brent" <me@privacy.net > wrote:

>>
>> "shall" wrote [ ... ]
>>> E-61's add about 7 seconds of pre-infusion to each shot. Although that
>>> is normally a good thing, I wonder if it risks an over-extraction in a
>>> cafe crema.
>>
>> I'm probably revealing my ignorance of how e-61's work, but I thought that
>> what they did was circulate water to keep a consistent group head
>> temperature. How is it that they add 7 seconds of pre-infusion?
>
>define pre-infusion...

Soaking the grounds under minimal pressure.

shall