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Date: 15 Jun 2007 16:50:57
From: Ken Blake
Subject: Espresso Grinder
Some of you may remember my name from a year or two ago, when I was
looking to buy a better espresso machine than the cheap one I had. You
almost unanimously advised me that it was more important to buy a
better grinder first.

Well, my wife and I couldn't agree on spending the money for either,
so I ended up buying nothing at that time. But my Krups grinder just
died, and I need to buy a new grinder now. So I'm coming back to get
your advice again. What's the least expensive burr grinder I can get
that will be acceptable for making decent espresso, how much will it
cost, and where (online) do you recommend I buy it?

All recommendations will be appreciated.

--
Ken Blake
Please Reply to the Newsgroup




 
Date: 09 Jul 2007 06:14:38
From: shane
Subject: Re: Espresso Grinder
On Jul 7, 11:57 pm, shane <shane.ol...@juno.com > wrote:
> On Jul 7, 8:49 am, "beerboyfeelgood" <richkevnos...@bellsouth.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "TrailRun" <ws17trail...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:1182078977.781942.146960@u2g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > Ken,
>
> > > I have used a Baratza Virtuoso for about 6 month now and I am pleased
> > > with it. I just couldn't sell my wife on one of those larger grinders
> > > sitting on the kitchen counter so after much research I went with the
> > > Baratza that I purchased as a refurbished direct from them. (about
> > > $150.00) I told them I was going to use it as a espresso only grinder
> > > and they set it up for "fine" before they sent it. I tuned it in and
> > > have used it every day with good results.http://www.baratza.com/I
> > > know there is a lot of negative press on this line of grinders but I
> > > have had no problems and it looks good on the kitchen counter.
>
> > > Wayne
>
> > I'm having the same problem as you, Wayne. My wife doesn't drink coffee,
> > and really does not want such a large grinder on the kitchen counter. I
> > can't say I really blame her, considering all of the other appliances that
> > are slowly accumulating there. Price is not as much of an issue for me, but
> > I don't want to spend money foolishly, either. I'll check out the Baratza
> > Virtuoso. Does anyone here have any experience with the Solis Maestro Plus?
> > The review looks promising and I really like the idea that it is extremely
> > quiet (according to reviews). I'm the only one up at 5 a.m. and am always
> > mindful of all the noise in the kitchen. Here is the website:http://www.wholelattelove.com/Baratza/maestrop.cfm?CMP=BIZ-SOMAE.
>
> > Kevin
>
> The Virtuoso does not do espresso very well. The Maestor plus is the
> precursor to the Virtuoso. I can't imagine it is better. The
> Virtuoso does do well for French press and Drip. My Virtuoso is not
> that quiet. If you want quiet, get a Zassenhaus.
>
> Shane- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I did use an antique hand grinder for espresso. It worked well, was a
little touchy as far as getting the grind consistent. Grind size is
adjusted by a coarseer threaded nut.

Shane



 
Date: 07 Jul 2007 21:57:41
From: shane
Subject: Re: Espresso Grinder
On Jul 7, 8:49 am, "beerboyfeelgood" <richkevnos...@bellsouth.net >
wrote:
> "TrailRun" <ws17trail...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1182078977.781942.146960@u2g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Ken,
>
> > I have used a Baratza Virtuoso for about 6 month now and I am pleased
> > with it. I just couldn't sell my wife on one of those larger grinders
> > sitting on the kitchen counter so after much research I went with the
> > Baratza that I purchased as a refurbished direct from them. (about
> > $150.00) I told them I was going to use it as a espresso only grinder
> > and they set it up for "fine" before they sent it. I tuned it in and
> > have used it every day with good results.http://www.baratza.com/I
> > know there is a lot of negative press on this line of grinders but I
> > have had no problems and it looks good on the kitchen counter.
>
> > Wayne
>
> I'm having the same problem as you, Wayne. My wife doesn't drink coffee,
> and really does not want such a large grinder on the kitchen counter. I
> can't say I really blame her, considering all of the other appliances that
> are slowly accumulating there. Price is not as much of an issue for me, but
> I don't want to spend money foolishly, either. I'll check out the Baratza
> Virtuoso. Does anyone here have any experience with the Solis Maestro Plus?
> The review looks promising and I really like the idea that it is extremely
> quiet (according to reviews). I'm the only one up at 5 a.m. and am always
> mindful of all the noise in the kitchen. Here is the website:http://www.wholelattelove.com/Baratza/maestrop.cfm?CMP=BIZ-SOMAE.
>
> Kevin

The Virtuoso does not do espresso very well. The Maestor plus is the
precursor to the Virtuoso. I can't imagine it is better. The
Virtuoso does do well for French press and Drip. My Virtuoso is not
that quiet. If you want quiet, get a Zassenhaus.

Shane



  
Date: 08 Jul 2007 12:02:41
From: beerboyfeelgood
Subject: Re: Espresso Grinder


>> > Ken,
>>
>> > I have used a Baratza Virtuoso for about 6 month now and I am pleased
>> > with it. I just couldn't sell my wife on one of those larger grinders
>> > sitting on the kitchen counter so after much research I went with the
>> > Baratza that I purchased as a refurbished direct from them. (about
>> > $150.00) I told them I was going to use it as a espresso only grinder
>> > and they set it up for "fine" before they sent it. I tuned it in and
>> > have used it every day with good results.http://www.baratza.com/I
>> > know there is a lot of negative press on this line of grinders but I
>> > have had no problems and it looks good on the kitchen counter.
>>
>> > Wayne
>>
>> I'm having the same problem as you, Wayne. My wife doesn't drink coffee,
>> and really does not want such a large grinder on the kitchen counter. I
>> can't say I really blame her, considering all of the other appliances
>> that
>> are slowly accumulating there. Price is not as much of an issue for me,
>> but
>> I don't want to spend money foolishly, either. I'll check out the
>> Baratza
>> Virtuoso. Does anyone here have any experience with the Solis Maestro
>> Plus?
>> The review looks promising and I really like the idea that it is
>> extremely
>> quiet (according to reviews). I'm the only one up at 5 a.m. and am
>> always
>> mindful of all the noise in the kitchen. Here is the
>> website:http://www.wholelattelove.com/Baratza/maestrop.cfm?CMP=BIZ-SOMAE.
>>
>> Kevin
>
> The Virtuoso does not do espresso very well. The Maestor plus is the
> precursor to the Virtuoso. I can't imagine it is better. The
> Virtuoso does do well for French press and Drip. My Virtuoso is not
> that quiet. If you want quiet, get a Zassenhaus.
>
> Shane

Thanks for the reply, Shane. Now that I have started looking, I have noticed
that the Baratza line isn't highly regarded when it comes to expresso. I
have looked at the Zassenhaus grinders, and you are right, they are the
ultimate in quiet! And, they certainly don't take up much space. I may end
up getting one just to have as a novelty until I get a nicer grinder. My
wife actually complains that I have to research things to death, before
making a purchase. Anyway, the search goes on. Out of curiosity, do you use
the Zassenhous, yourself?

Kevin




 
Date: 30 Jun 2007 19:15:19
From: Flasherly
Subject: Re: Espresso Grinder
On Jun 30, 9:18 pm, Stu Wells <s...@thynk.us > wrote:
> I just upgraded to a new grinder (my birthday present to myself), I
> spent the extra dosh on a Rocky Dosserless grinder - and can't be
> happier with it. It looks sexy sitting on the counter and grinds like a
> champ. It looks and feels like I can leave it to my kids when I pass
> on. I was tempted to go with a cheaper grinder off ebay, but was talked
> out of it.

This appears a good review (off Amazon), but (as is usual). . .

-- Rocky just doesn't quite make it to a real french press grind. This
is an issue that was noted on coffeegeek reviews and which I didn't
care about when I bought the machine, but which I now wish I had
considered. Also, and this is a niggling point, the grind adjustments
are stepped, not stepless. In a perfect world, I like to think that
all grinders should be stepless like the Mazzer Mini that I
occasionally get to play with. --

Pretty, pretty (plus two timer models that come up under mazzer min
costing twice more).

http://cgi.ebay.com/MAZZER-MINI-GRINDER-WITH-TIMER-and-NEW-SHORT-HOPPER_W0QQitemZ250116582254QQihZ015QQcategoryZ32882QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem






 
Date: 30 Jun 2007 19:18:36
From: Stu Wells
Subject: Re: Espresso Grinder
Ken,

I just upgraded to a new grinder (my birthday present to myself), I
spent the extra dosh on a Rocky Dosserless grinder - and can't be
happier with it. It looks sexy sitting on the counter and grinds like a
champ. It looks and feels like I can leave it to my kids when I pass
on. I was tempted to go with a cheaper grinder off ebay, but was talked
out of it.

Stu

Ken Blake wrote:
> Some of you may remember my name from a year or two ago, when I was
> looking to buy a better espresso machine than the cheap one I had. You
> almost unanimously advised me that it was more important to buy a
> better grinder first.
>
> Well, my wife and I couldn't agree on spending the money for either,
> so I ended up buying nothing at that time. But my Krups grinder just
> died, and I need to buy a new grinder now. So I'm coming back to get
> your advice again. What's the least expensive burr grinder I can get
> that will be acceptable for making decent espresso, how much will it
> cost, and where (online) do you recommend I buy it?
>
> All recommendations will be appreciated.
>
> --
> Ken Blake
> Please Reply to the Newsgroup


 
Date: 19 Jun 2007 11:53:46
From: billm3
Subject: Re: Kitchenaid KPCG100 - Espresso Grinder
> >I just bought[yesterday] a kitchenaid KPCG100 Pro grinder for $100 at
> >Costco. Everywhere else they sell for about $200.
>
> Thanks, Kent. I'll look into it. How do others here feel about this
> model?

You'll love it at first.... then you will hate it.

Check my review (and others) at coffegeek.com

http://tinyurl.com/29js79

Bill



 
Date: 19 Jun 2007 05:53:17
From:
Subject: Re: Kitchenaid KPCG100 - Espresso Grinder
On Jun 17, 10:15 am, "Kent" <kh6...@comcast.net > wrote:
> "Ken Blake" <kbl...@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in message
>
> news:549673la0g36bm4us2ebd66o8c3ae4gklq@4ax.com...
>
> > Some of you may remember my name from a year or two ago, when I was
> > looking to buy a better espresso machine than the cheap one I had. You
> > almost unanimously advised me that it was more important to buy a
> > better grinder first.
>
> > Well, my wife and I couldn't agree on spending the money for either,
> > so I ended up buying nothing at that time. But my Krups grinder just
> > died, and I need to buy a new grinder now. So I'm coming back to get
> > your advice again. What's the least expensive burr grinder I can get
> > that will be acceptable for making decent espresso, how much will it
> > cost, and where (online) do you recommend I buy it?
>
> > All recommendations will be appreciated.
>
> > --
> > Ken Blake
> > Please Reply to the Newsgroup
>
> I just bought[yesterday] a kitchenaid KPCG100 Pro grinder for $100 at
> Costco. Everywhere else they sell for about $200.http://www.amazon.com/KitchenAid-KPCG100NP-Coffee-Grinder-Nickel/dp/B...
> It is very well made. It runs at a lot speed, and has a very fine expresso
> grind, though I obviously have had minimal experience so far.
> I have gone through three flat blade burr grinders[two Cuisinarts, and one
> Krupps] and one conical grinder[Capresso] in the last two years. Any flat
> blade grinder lasts only so long because the flat blades basically wear out.
> I'm sure they come out of the same Chinese burr factory. The Capresso
> conical grinder works well, but it really is a cheap plastic hunk of junk.
> It self destructed almost immediately.
> Since I'm still in the returnable phase of this purchase, I would sure like
> to hear any feedback from other kitchenaid users. So far, as a certified
> T-wad I'm very pleased.
>
> Kent
>
> http://www.amazon.com/KitchenAid-KPCG100NP-Coffee-Grinder-Nickel/dp/B...

Hi Kent - I've had the KAP grinder for seven months now, and I really
like it, though there are some things you might want to know to keep
it working correctly. The grinder is a solid, beautiful machine that
works well when cleaned regularly. I take off the face plate and
unscrew the burrs and wipe them off with the brush provided in the
box. It only takes about five minutes, and keeps the grinder from
building up too much residue inside (which can be a problem). It can
also be modified to be steepless, to overcome one shortcoming, that
the steps between each grind level are too far apart (the more
expensive grinders have 40 or more grinder settings, while the KAP has
about 16.)

I use my grinder several times a day to make grounds for a variety of
drinks, from espresso, to drip, to french press. The KAP easily
switches between the finest and the coarsest setting, compared to the
nicer, more expensive grinders which are mainly for fine-tuning
espresso shots and can be a hassle to adjust from espresso to drip or
french press.

the KAP is easy to clean, as the glass hopper and bin are solid and
can be washed in the dishwasher. It feels like it will last forever,
given the solid construction and heavy metal.

For $100, I doubt you'll find a better grinder. If you're solely an
espresso fanatic, you might want to save up for a better grinder, like
something along the lines of a Mazzer Mini, which seems to be the
industry standard, with a price several hundred dollars more
expensive.

If you want to read more about users' opinions on the KAP, check out
coffeegeek.com, in the forums, under espresso grinders. you'll see
there's a sharp debate between people like me who think the grinder is
great for the price, versus those who claim it's unusable.



 
Date: 18 Jun 2007 08:45:02
From: Flasherly
Subject: Re: Kitchenaid KPCG100 - Espresso Grinder
On Jun 17, 1:15 pm, "Kent" <kh6...@comcast.net > wrote:
> I'm sure they come out of the same Chinese burr factory. The Capresso
> conical grinder works well, but it really is a cheap plastic hunk of junk.
> It self destructed almost immediately.

Yes, I've noticed that, too. Appears QC issues at work, and cutting
edges - loads of ABS and plastic. Discouraging when things break -
recently had to replace a value oriented 16:9 HD-LCD that went awry
(just prior to warranty forfeiture, thankfully). Others Infinity
Capresso owners claim they never were able, or subsequently
experienced mechanical misalignment "shifts", whereby they couldn't to
grind fine enough for espresso. A product, evidently, one initially
needs to examine carefully.

Every time I'm tempted to pry mine apart with an eye to modifying it
for a finer grind, I usually put it back, gently on the shelf. Did
glue together a "drop chute" from a plastic container, though, for
individually dispensing shot-measures directly into the PF, and got
rid of the industrial-sized bin Capresso provided. I'm pleased with
the Infinity.

You did well at the COSCO price. I was also considering KitchenAide
before settling on a Capresso. For your price, I'd certainly forgone
the Infinity.


> Since I'm still in the returnable phase of this purchase, I would sure like
> to hear any feedback from other kitchenaid users. So far, as a certified
> T-wad I'm very pleased.
>
> Kent
>
> http://www.amazon.com/KitchenAid-KPCG100NP-Coffee-Grinder-Nickel/dp/B...




 
Date: 18 Jun 2007 08:15:47
From: Flasherly
Subject: Re: Espresso Grinder
On Jun 17, 7:12 pm, r...@math.hawaii.NOSPAM.edu (D. Ross) wrote:
>


 
Date: 17 Jun 2007 10:15:14
From: Kent
Subject: Kitchenaid KPCG100 - Espresso Grinder

"Ken Blake" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain > wrote in message
news:549673la0g36bm4us2ebd66o8c3ae4gklq@4ax.com...
> Some of you may remember my name from a year or two ago, when I was
> looking to buy a better espresso machine than the cheap one I had. You
> almost unanimously advised me that it was more important to buy a
> better grinder first.
>
> Well, my wife and I couldn't agree on spending the money for either,
> so I ended up buying nothing at that time. But my Krups grinder just
> died, and I need to buy a new grinder now. So I'm coming back to get
> your advice again. What's the least expensive burr grinder I can get
> that will be acceptable for making decent espresso, how much will it
> cost, and where (online) do you recommend I buy it?
>
> All recommendations will be appreciated.
>
> --
> Ken Blake
> Please Reply to the Newsgroup
>
>
I just bought[yesterday] a kitchenaid KPCG100 Pro grinder for $100 at
Costco. Everywhere else they sell for about $200.
http://www.amazon.com/KitchenAid-KPCG100NP-Coffee-Grinder-Nickel/dp/B000JLFLXQ/ref=pd_bbs_sr_9/104-2840449-5911965?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1182099983&sr=8-9
It is very well made. It runs at a lot speed, and has a very fine expresso
grind, though I obviously have had minimal experience so far.
I have gone through three flat blade burr grinders[two Cuisinarts, and one
Krupps] and one conical grinder[Capresso] in the last two years. Any flat
blade grinder lasts only so long because the flat blades basically wear out.
I'm sure they come out of the same Chinese burr factory. The Capresso
conical grinder works well, but it really is a cheap plastic hunk of junk.
It self destructed almost immediately.
Since I'm still in the returnable phase of this purchase, I would sure like
to hear any feedback from other kitchenaid users. So far, as a certified
T-wad I'm very pleased.

Kent

http://www.amazon.com/KitchenAid-KPCG100NP-Coffee-Grinder-Nickel/dp/B000JLFLXQ/ref=pd_bbs_sr_9/104-2840449-5911965?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1182099983&sr=8-9




  
Date: 17 Jun 2007 18:52:41
From: Moka Java
Subject: Re: Kitchenaid KPCG100 - Espresso Grinder
Kent wrote:

> I have gone through three flat blade burr grinders[two Cuisinarts, and one
> Krupps] and one conical grinder[Capresso] in the last two years. Any flat
> blade grinder lasts only so long because the flat blades basically wear out.

Mazzer, Cimbali and Rancilio grinders, to name a few, have flat burrs
and are rated for 1000+ lbs. so I'm not sure what your talking about.

> I'm sure they come out of the same Chinese burr factory.

Mazzer, Cimbali and Rancilio burrs? I don't think so.

The Capresso
> conical grinder works well, but it really is a cheap plastic hunk of junk.
> It self destructed almost immediately.

If it self destructed almost immediately how does it work well?

R "very confused" TF


  
Date: 17 Jun 2007 10:36:19
From: Ken Blake
Subject: Re: Kitchenaid KPCG100 - Espresso Grinder
On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 10:15:14 -0700, "Kent" <kh6444@comcast.net > wrote:

>
>"Ken Blake" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in message
>news:549673la0g36bm4us2ebd66o8c3ae4gklq@4ax.com...
>> Some of you may remember my name from a year or two ago, when I was
>> looking to buy a better espresso machine than the cheap one I had. You
>> almost unanimously advised me that it was more important to buy a
>> better grinder first.
>>
>> Well, my wife and I couldn't agree on spending the money for either,
>> so I ended up buying nothing at that time. But my Krups grinder just
>> died, and I need to buy a new grinder now. So I'm coming back to get
>> your advice again. What's the least expensive burr grinder I can get
>> that will be acceptable for making decent espresso, how much will it
>> cost, and where (online) do you recommend I buy it?
>>
>> All recommendations will be appreciated.
>>
>> --
>> Ken Blake
>> Please Reply to the Newsgroup
>>
>>
>I just bought[yesterday] a kitchenaid KPCG100 Pro grinder for $100 at
>Costco. Everywhere else they sell for about $200.



Thanks, Kent. I'll look into it. How do others here feel about this
model?

>http://www.amazon.com/KitchenAid-KPCG100NP-Coffee-Grinder-Nickel/dp/B000JLFLXQ/ref=pd_bbs_sr_9/104-2840449-5911965?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1182099983&sr=8-9
> It is very well made. It runs at a lot speed, and has a very fine expresso
>grind, though I obviously have had minimal experience so far.
>I have gone through three flat blade burr grinders[two Cuisinarts, and one
>Krupps] and one conical grinder[Capresso] in the last two years. Any flat
>blade grinder lasts only so long because the flat blades basically wear out.
>I'm sure they come out of the same Chinese burr factory. The Capresso
>conical grinder works well, but it really is a cheap plastic hunk of junk.
>It self destructed almost immediately.
>Since I'm still in the returnable phase of this purchase, I would sure like
>to hear any feedback from other kitchenaid users. So far, as a certified
>T-wad I'm very pleased.
>
>Kent
>
> http://www.amazon.com/KitchenAid-KPCG100NP-Coffee-Grinder-Nickel/dp/B000JLFLXQ/ref=pd_bbs_sr_9/104-2840449-5911965?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1182099983&sr=8-9
>

--
Ken Blake
Please Reply to the Newsgroup


   
Date: 17 Jun 2007 23:36:58
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: Kitchenaid KPCG100 - Espresso Grinder


    
Date: 18 Jun 2007 11:04:29
From: pltrgyst
Subject: Re: Kitchenaid KPCG100 - Espresso Grinder
On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 23:36:58 GMT, ross@math.hawaii.NOSPAM.edu (D. Ross) wrote:

>


     
Date: 19 Jun 2007 10:11:13
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: Kitchenaid KPCG100 - Espresso Grinder
pltrgyst <pltrgyst@spamlessxhost.org > wrote:



 
Date: 17 Jun 2007 11:16:17
From: TrailRun
Subject: Re: Espresso Grinder
Ken,

I have used a Baratza Virtuoso for about 6 month now and I am pleased
with it. I just couldn't sell my wife on one of those larger grinders
sitting on the kitchen counter so after much research I went with the
Baratza that I purchased as a refurbished direct from them. (about
$150.00) I told them I was going to use it as a espresso only grinder
and they set it up for "fine" before they sent it. I tuned it in and
have used it every day with good results. http://www.baratza.com/ I
know there is a lot of negative press on this line of grinders but I
have had no problems and it looks good on the kitchen counter.

Wayne



  
Date: 07 Jul 2007 08:49:47
From: beerboyfeelgood
Subject: Re: Espresso Grinder

"TrailRun" <ws17trailrun@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1182078977.781942.146960@u2g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> Ken,
>
> I have used a Baratza Virtuoso for about 6 month now and I am pleased
> with it. I just couldn't sell my wife on one of those larger grinders
> sitting on the kitchen counter so after much research I went with the
> Baratza that I purchased as a refurbished direct from them. (about
> $150.00) I told them I was going to use it as a espresso only grinder
> and they set it up for "fine" before they sent it. I tuned it in and
> have used it every day with good results. http://www.baratza.com/ I
> know there is a lot of negative press on this line of grinders but I
> have had no problems and it looks good on the kitchen counter.
>
> Wayne

I'm having the same problem as you, Wayne. My wife doesn't drink coffee,
and really does not want such a large grinder on the kitchen counter. I
can't say I really blame her, considering all of the other appliances that
are slowly accumulating there. Price is not as much of an issue for me, but
I don't want to spend money foolishly, either. I'll check out the Baratza
Virtuoso. Does anyone here have any experience with the Solis Maestro Plus?
The review looks promising and I really like the idea that it is extremely
quiet (according to reviews). I'm the only one up at 5 a.m. and am always
mindful of all the noise in the kitchen. Here is the website:
http://www.wholelattelove.com/Baratza/maestrop.cfm?CMP=BIZ-SOMAE.

Kevin




  
Date: 17 Jun 2007 10:35:15
From: Ken Blake
Subject: Re: Espresso Grinder
On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 11:16:17 -0000, TrailRun <ws17trailrun@gmail.com >
wrote:

>Ken,
>
>I have used a Baratza Virtuoso for about 6 month now and I am pleased
>with it. I just couldn't sell my wife on one of those larger grinders
>sitting on the kitchen counter so after much research I went with the
>Baratza that I purchased as a refurbished direct from them. (about
>$150.00) I told them I was going to use it as a espresso only grinder
>and they set it up for "fine" before they sent it. I tuned it in and
>have used it every day with good results. http://www.baratza.com/ I
>know there is a lot of negative press on this line of grinders but I
>have had no problems and it looks good on the kitchen counter.


I just realized that I have a Baratza Maestro, which I recently
inherited from my father, but haven't used yet. How does that differ
from the Virtuoso? They look essentially the same in their pictures.

I'll give it a try, but how do others here feel about this/these?

--
Ken Blake
Please Reply to the Newsgroup


   
Date: 17 Jun 2007 23:16:01
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: Espresso Grinder
Ken Blake <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain > wrote:



    
Date: 17 Jun 2007 16:51:31
From: Ken Blake
Subject: Re: Espresso Grinder
On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 23:16:01 GMT, ross@math.hawaii.NOSPAM.edu (D.
Ross) wrote:

>Ken Blake <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote:
>
>


     
Date: 17 Jun 2007 23:56:06
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: Espresso Grinder


      
Date: 17 Jun 2007 17:13:43
From: Ken Blake
Subject: Re: Espresso Grinder
On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 23:56:06 GMT, ross@math.hawaii.NOSPAM.edu (D.
Ross) wrote:

>


 
Date: 17 Jun 2007 00:41:27
From: Flasherly
Subject: Re: Espresso Grinder
On Jun 17, 1:08 am, Moka Java <rtwatc...@fishyahoo.com > wrote:
> Flasherly wrote:
> > On Jun 16, 11:44 am, Moka Java <rtwatc...@fishyahoo.com> wrote:
> >> Flasherly wrote:
> >>> the extraction process is within acceptable shot definitions (25-45
> >>> sec.)
> >> Whose definition is that?
>
> >> R "it's not in my book" TF
>
> > And... ?
>
> > I'd be going by several websites, probably conversation in here, if
> > somewhat dated since looking back over the basics. Let's rummage
> > about, offhand, to see what else is stashed away - more precisely that
> > would be the shorter end of the spectrum for 25 seconds being
> > preferable, with a longer extraction permissible at some greater odds
> > likely to incur faux residuals from over-extraction and bitters.
> > Tamping and grind, again, being an important component and variable in
> > deriving optimal results.
>
> > I've a tendency to over extract at the far end of the spectrum, going
> > a bit long on the blonde side, although in keeping within 45 seconds.
>
> So, if I understand you correctly, your espresso needs work.
>
> Do you find that different tamping pressures makes much of a difference?
>
> R "I shoot for 20 seconds" TF

Marginally, a little tamping pressure can keep the flow restricted to
the finest stream, which is great. I swirl the tamp -from- three
directions or orientation (always clockwise being right-handed),
turning the PF handle three times, each time (3 to 6 swirls) as the
grinds are more compact with attention to a level distribution. Last
position, if I hit it just right, I'll get both some pressure as well
as a polish. Nice tight restricted flow.

First thing out of the box with a 58mm PF - I see extractions have a
tendency to come out in a hurry. Adapted pleasantly well to the
finest Infinity grind setting, though. The volume of the extraction
picks up and flow increases around 20 seconds - including dark browns
that begin lightening, mouse trails, blondes (occasional fizzles) to
whitened. I'm stopping into blonde before white.

OK. I don't measure by gram weight. The little plastic cone things
that invariably come in cans of coffee (if not slightly bigger cups).
Two of the cone things - whatever that weighs out to, that's what I
use. I think of it as espresso a lungo, if not somewhere approaching
over extracted. 20 seconds isn't enough. I want a longer drink of
coffee, willingly sacrificing the short, most concentrated sweet spot
for it. Coffee hound dog habits. :)



 
Date: 16 Jun 2007 19:43:24
From: Flasherly
Subject: Re: Espresso Grinder
On Jun 16, 10:38 am, Ken Blake <kbl...@this.is.an.invalid.domain >
wrote:
>
> Thanks very much. Why is this so much cheaper than the two recommended
> above? I'd like to save money, of course, but I also don't want to buy
> an inferior product.

D. Ross does an admirable job in illustrating a finer distinction
expected from an art and craft associated with fine cuisine and
gourmet coffee. Instruments, merely, to obtaining an end only as good
as an operator's capacity to employ them. The flipside, I suppose, is
coffee needn't be elevated to an optimal, should a reasonable
facsimile of care be exercised within limits. Leeway given when
experience defers to inexperience to say: What tastes good to you is,
ultimately, most important.

You started with a Krups, two flat mill plates that pulverize the
beans. So did I. It's in a cupboard behind me, behind closed doors.
The Infinity sits aside the sink on countertop, alongside a hot-air
coffee bean roaster, I purchased shortly thereafter, and another
espresso machine not long ago. I've already mentioned the Infinity is
maxed out. I'm grinding at and can't surpass its limit. Others,
here, have said they couldn't get a fine enough grind from the
Infinity. Others, among reviews elsewhere, grant the Infinity a
little more leeway for an acceptable entry-level espresso grinder.
Among them are Sweetmaria's, although I bought it from Amazon.

What surprised me is a can of espresso ground coffee I was recently
provided, Lavazza. The grind, going by the feel from a pinch and not
a minute examination, was less fine than I'm grinding with the
Infinity. The coffee extracted through an espresso machine proved for
me a chore to keep from under-extracting and immediately blonding.

It's easier to not attempt to reconcile the discrepancy, since freshly
roasted beans are universal in their appeal. I'm pleased with results
I derive from the Infinity, although not necessarily within an order
of having a better grinder -- being able to exactly tailor beans as a
conditional factor of the extraction, and consequent fineness to
"tuning in" the grind.

Someday, maybe, when I also know more of how they're constructed to
appreciate an appropriate quality. I do get a touch of sediments,
fines, hardly a drop or two that settle to the bottom. On the lighter
side. Apart from blonding, the blended Lavazza is a stronger drink
than what I'm accustomed to grinding, with added hints of sweetness.
Mine's still tastier. :)



  
Date: 17 Jun 2007 23:12:11
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: Espresso Grinder


  
Date: 16 Jun 2007 21:23:49
From: Ken Blake
Subject: Re: Espresso Grinder
On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 19:43:24 -0700, Flasherly <gjerrell@ij.net > wrote:

>On Jun 16, 10:38 am, Ken Blake <kbl...@this.is.an.invalid.domain>
>wrote:
>>
>> Thanks very much. Why is this so much cheaper than the two recommended
>> above? I'd like to save money, of course, but I also don't want to buy
>> an inferior product.
>
>D. Ross does an admirable job in illustrating a finer distinction
>expected from an art and craft associated with fine cuisine and
>gourmet coffee. Instruments, merely, to obtaining an end only as good
>as an operator's capacity to employ them. The flipside, I suppose, is
>coffee needn't be elevated to an optimal, should a reasonable
>facsimile of care be exercised within limits. Leeway given when
>experience defers to inexperience to say: What tastes good to you is,
>ultimately, most important.
>
>You started with a Krups, two flat mill plates that pulverize the
>beans. So did I. It's in a cupboard behind me, behind closed doors.
>The Infinity sits aside the sink on countertop, alongside a hot-air
>coffee bean roaster, I purchased shortly thereafter, and another
>espresso machine not long ago. I've already mentioned the Infinity is
>maxed out. I'm grinding at and can't surpass its limit. Others,
>here, have said they couldn't get a fine enough grind from the
>Infinity. Others, among reviews elsewhere, grant the Infinity a
>little more leeway for an acceptable entry-level espresso grinder.
>Among them are Sweetmaria's, although I bought it from Amazon.
>
>What surprised me is a can of espresso ground coffee I was recently
>provided, Lavazza. The grind, going by the feel from a pinch and not
>a minute examination, was less fine than I'm grinding with the
>Infinity. The coffee extracted through an espresso machine proved for
>me a chore to keep from under-extracting and immediately blonding.
>
>It's easier to not attempt to reconcile the discrepancy, since freshly
>roasted beans are universal in their appeal. I'm pleased with results
>I derive from the Infinity, although not necessarily within an order
>of having a better grinder -- being able to exactly tailor beans as a
>conditional factor of the extraction, and consequent fineness to
>"tuning in" the grind.
>
>Someday, maybe, when I also know more of how they're constructed to
>appreciate an appropriate quality. I do get a touch of sediments,
>fines, hardly a drop or two that settle to the bottom. On the lighter
>side. Apart from blonding, the blended Lavazza is a stronger drink
>than what I'm accustomed to grinding, with added hints of sweetness.
>Mine's still tastier. :)



Thanks again.

--
Ken Blake
Please Reply to the Newsgroup


 
Date: 16 Jun 2007 18:59:33
From: Flasherly
Subject: Re: Espresso Grinder
On Jun 16, 11:44 am, Moka Java <rtwatc...@fishyahoo.com > wrote:
> Flasherly wrote:
> > the extraction process is within acceptable shot definitions (25-45
> > sec.)
>
> Whose definition is that?
>
> R "it's not in my book" TF

And... ?

I'd be going by several websites, probably conversation in here, if
somewhat dated since looking back over the basics. Let's rummage
about, offhand, to see what else is stashed away - more precisely that
would be the shorter end of the spectrum for 25 seconds being
preferable, with a longer extraction permissible at some greater odds
likely to incur faux residuals from over-extraction and bitters.
Tamping and grind, again, being an important component and variable in
deriving optimal results.

I've a tendency to over extract at the far end of the spectrum, going
a bit long on the blonde side, although in keeping within 45 seconds.



  
Date: 17 Jun 2007 01:08:56
From: Moka Java
Subject: Re: Espresso Grinder
Flasherly wrote:
> On Jun 16, 11:44 am, Moka Java <rtwatc...@fishyahoo.com> wrote:
>> Flasherly wrote:
>>> the extraction process is within acceptable shot definitions (25-45
>>> sec.)
>> Whose definition is that?
>>
>> R "it's not in my book" TF
>
> And... ?
>
> I'd be going by several websites, probably conversation in here, if
> somewhat dated since looking back over the basics. Let's rummage
> about, offhand, to see what else is stashed away - more precisely that
> would be the shorter end of the spectrum for 25 seconds being
> preferable, with a longer extraction permissible at some greater odds
> likely to incur faux residuals from over-extraction and bitters.
> Tamping and grind, again, being an important component and variable in
> deriving optimal results.
>
> I've a tendency to over extract at the far end of the spectrum, going
> a bit long on the blonde side, although in keeping within 45 seconds.
>

So, if I understand you correctly, your espresso needs work.

Do you find that different tamping pressures makes much of a difference?

R "I shoot for 20 seconds" TF


 
Date: 16 Jun 2007 07:10:13
From: Flasherly
Subject: Re: Espresso Grinder
On Jun 15, 10:06 pm, Ken Blake <kbl...@this.is.an.invalid.domain >
wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 01:46:56 GMT, "Robert Harmon"
>
> <r_h_har...@Zhotmail.com> wrote:
> >A used Gaggia MDF (~$120) or Rancilio Rocky (~$180) can be found on eBay.
> >These are *usually* considered to be the minimum starting point. Any other
> >suggestions?
>
> Thanks, I'll look for these.
>
> Ken
>
> --
> Ken Blake
> Please Reply to the Newsgroup

Capresso Infinity for around $80 new in ABS, plumber-grade plastics.
I've maxed mine out (finest setting) since switching to a relatively
giant PF (58mm). I'd like to grind fine enough blow grinds right
through if not stop the flow, (along with all points in between), but
the extraction process is within acceptable shot definitions (25-45
sec.), as are results. Capresso is marginal for some, although I
don't experience gushers, have a steady, thick extraction with little
(as possible) premature blonding or evidence of mousetails. Tamping
plays a part in the delivery - I developed a 3-point take from the
school of the venerable swirling-coin technique. :)



  
Date: 16 Jun 2007 11:44:28
From: Moka Java
Subject: Re: Espresso Grinder
Flasherly wrote:

> the extraction process is within acceptable shot definitions (25-45
> sec.)

Whose definition is that?

R "it's not in my book" TF


  
Date: 16 Jun 2007 07:38:25
From: Ken Blake
Subject: Re: Espresso Grinder
On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 07:10:13 -0700, Flasherly <gjerrell@ij.net > wrote:

>On Jun 15, 10:06 pm, Ken Blake <kbl...@this.is.an.invalid.domain>
>wrote:
>> On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 01:46:56 GMT, "Robert Harmon"
>>
>> <r_h_har...@Zhotmail.com> wrote:
>> >A used Gaggia MDF (~$120) or Rancilio Rocky (~$180) can be found on eBay.
>> >These are *usually* considered to be the minimum starting point. Any other
>> >suggestions?
>>
>> Thanks, I'll look for these.
>>
>> Ken
>>
>> --
>> Ken Blake
>> Please Reply to the Newsgroup
>
>Capresso Infinity for around $80 new in ABS, plumber-grade plastics.


Thanks very much. Why is this so much cheaper than the two recommended
above? I'd like to save money, of course, but I also don't want to buy
an inferior product.

What do others here think of the Capresso Infinity?



>I've maxed mine out (finest setting) since switching to a relatively
>giant PF (58mm). I'd like to grind fine enough blow grinds right
>through if not stop the flow, (along with all points in between), but
>the extraction process is within acceptable shot definitions (25-45
>sec.), as are results. Capresso is marginal for some, although I
>don't experience gushers, have a steady, thick extraction with little
>(as possible) premature blonding or evidence of mousetails. Tamping
>plays a part in the delivery - I developed a 3-point take from the
>school of the venerable swirling-coin technique. :)

--
Ken Blake
Please Reply to the Newsgroup


   
Date: 17 Jun 2007 01:38:44
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: Espresso Grinder


    
Date: 16 Jun 2007 21:23:24
From: Ken Blake
Subject: Re: Espresso Grinder
On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 01:38:44 GMT, ross@math.hawaii.NOSPAM.edu (D.
Ross) wrote:

>


   
Date: 16 Jun 2007 08:19:18
From: Ken Blake
Subject: Re: Espresso Grinder
On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 07:38:25 -0700, Ken Blake
<kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain > wrote:

>On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 07:10:13 -0700, Flasherly <gjerrell@ij.net> wrote:
>
>>On Jun 15, 10:06 pm, Ken Blake <kbl...@this.is.an.invalid.domain>
>>wrote:
>>> On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 01:46:56 GMT, "Robert Harmon"
>>>
>>> <r_h_har...@Zhotmail.com> wrote:
>>> >A used Gaggia MDF (~$120) or Rancilio Rocky (~$180) can be found on eBay.
>>> >These are *usually* considered to be the minimum starting point. Any other
>>> >suggestions?
>>>
>>> Thanks, I'll look for these.
>>>
>>> Ken
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ken Blake
>>> Please Reply to the Newsgroup
>>
>>Capresso Infinity for around $80 new in ABS, plumber-grade plastics.
>
>
>Thanks very much. Why is this so much cheaper than the two recommended
>above? I'd like to save money, of course, but I also don't want to buy
>an inferior product.
>
>What do others here think of the Capresso Infinity?


By the way, I went to Amazon.com to look at this, and it showed a
number of photographs of this after use, pointing out that there were
several severe disadvantages, including a residue of ground coffee
that had to be cleaned away each time the grinder was used.

Comments?

--
Ken Blake
Please Reply to the Newsgroup


 
Date: 16 Jun 2007 01:46:56
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Espresso Grinder
A used Gaggia MDF (~$120) or Rancilio Rocky (~$180) can be found on eBay.
These are *usually* considered to be the minimum starting point. Any other
suggestions?
--
Robert Harmon
--
My coffee pages. - http://www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj

My 'Guidelines For Newbies' - http://www.tinyurl.com/2tnv87

Gaggia Classic; a great machine! - http://www.tinyurl.com/2enxjo

Nuova Simonelli Mac & grinder price cut! - http://www.tinyurl.com/2aogu2

"Ken Blake" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain > wrote in message
news:549673la0g36bm4us2ebd66o8c3ae4gklq@4ax.com...
> Some of you may remember my name from a year or two ago, when I was
> looking to buy a better espresso machine than the cheap one I had. You
> almost unanimously advised me that it was more important to buy a
> better grinder first.
>
> Well, my wife and I couldn't agree on spending the money for either,
> so I ended up buying nothing at that time. But my Krups grinder just
> died, and I need to buy a new grinder now. So I'm coming back to get
> your advice again. What's the least expensive burr grinder I can get
> that will be acceptable for making decent espresso, how much will it
> cost, and where (online) do you recommend I buy it?
>
> All recommendations will be appreciated.
>
> --
> Ken Blake
> Please Reply to the Newsgroup




  
Date: 15 Jun 2007 19:06:07
From: Ken Blake
Subject: Re: Espresso Grinder
On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 01:46:56 GMT, "Robert Harmon"
<r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com > wrote:

>A used Gaggia MDF (~$120) or Rancilio Rocky (~$180) can be found on eBay.
>These are *usually* considered to be the minimum starting point. Any other
>suggestions?


Thanks, I'll look for these.

Ken

--
Ken Blake
Please Reply to the Newsgroup