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Date: 04 Nov 2006 13:41:10
From: cpl593h
Subject: Espresso extraction problems, FAB homeroast
Recently, I've been having problems with single origin espresso and I
believe it's a result of my homeroast. I have never had much of a
problem until recently, when I started to use beans I have never used
before for espresso.

One of the problem beans is a pulped-natural from El Salvador. The
other is a screen-dry process Ethiopia Yirgacheffe. I know other people
who have had great results from these exact beans, but something is
amiss.

Despite attempts to vary brew temperature, dosing, and extraction
volumes, the same problem persists: very thin, watery mouthfeel and
harsh flavors.

Similar roast profiling with Daterra Yellow Bourbon yields fairly good
results: good flavor, custardy mouthfeel in a variety of extraction
frames.

The Yirg, while making a great pot of Chemex (albeit at a darker roast
than I would like for drip) just does not cut the mustard as espresso.
The El Salvador just cupped so-so.

For the roast, I am using a PI controlled by a PXR4. I am controlling
the roast using bean mass temperature input, but monitoring inlet air
temperature as well. The roast chamber is insulated throughout the
roast (though I can remove it anytime).

I ramp up fairly quickly to 300F, then approach first crack linearly in
4 minutes, then approach second crack linearly in 5 minutes. Airflow is
kept relatively high and inlet temp reaches a maximum of 475F.

How should I approach the roast differently? Is it possible that I am
overdrying the beans at a particular stage?





 
Date: 05 Nov 2006 19:31:52
From: cpl593h
Subject: Re: Espresso extraction problems, FAB homeroast
My approach to first crack is finished in 7 minutes from start to
finish. More specifically about my initial 3-minute ramp:

I ramp from ambient temperature to 285F in two minutes, and then to
300F in one minute. It is my understanding that the sub-300F warmup is
not critical.

While hottop roast times may relate (they are certainly relevant),
other variables do not cross over since I am using a fluid airbed
roaster. I suspect that there is something happening between 300F to
finish that is causing the beans to overdry. I don't know if it is a
question of air temperature, airflow, speed of roast, etc.

I should mention that my roast chamber is a removable 12"+ vertical
Pyrex tube (similar to Jim Schulman's extended FreshRoast chamber, but
homemade and 3" OD) so bean agitation is not cyclonic as it would
normally be in a PI.



 
Date: 05 Nov 2006 17:27:46
From: cpl593h
Subject: Re: Espresso extraction problems, FAB homeroast
My times do fall within that range - from 300F to finish it's 9 minutes
(300-FC 4 mins, FC-finish 5 mins, as stated in the original post). It
ramp up to 300F in 3 minutes most of the time.



  
Date: 05 Nov 2006 17:47:37
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Espresso extraction problems, FAB homeroast
"cpl593h" <CPL593H@gmail.com > wrote:

>My times do fall within that range - from 300F to finish it's 9 minutes
>(300-FC 4 mins, FC-finish 5 mins, as stated in the original post). It
>ramp up to 300F in 3 minutes most of the time.
>
I missed that it was an interval amount of time and not a total
running time (4 + 5 minutes, and not at 4 and then at 5 minutes).

In that case, maybe run the ramp up slower so that 1st isn't reached
until later than the 4 to 5 minute range you currently experience...?

Still, as you are experience, roast is a matter of taste for any given
method of extraction. It is one of the things I like about the Hottop.
It's native programming is a bit too slow to get the best out of
coffee for drip, but the long roast with the slow start makes for a
very smooth espresso (ways around all that, but just using that as an
example).


Randy "El Roasto Longito" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com




 
Date: 05 Nov 2006 16:52:35
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Espresso extraction problems, FAB homeroast
"cpl593h" <CPL593H@gmail.com > wrote:

>I ramp up fairly quickly to 300F, then approach first crack linearly in
>4 minutes, then approach second crack linearly in 5 minutes. Airflow is
>kept relatively high and inlet temp reaches a maximum of 475F.
>
>How should I approach the roast differently? Is it possible that I am
>overdrying the beans at a particular stage?
>
For espresso, I would recommend a slower (longer) roast. Use a longer,
slower beginning, and shoot for a roast of about 9 to 11 minutes. It
mutes the acidity and smooths out the flavor overall... IMO.. YTBMV
(Your taste buds may vary). ;-)


Randy
"slow down, you roast too fast.. You gotta' make the coffee last...
Roasting coffee and feelin' groooveeee"
G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com




 
Date: 05 Nov 2006 15:41:06
From: cpl593h
Subject: Re: Espresso extraction problems, FAB homeroast
Joe, I'd really rather not go darker than I am going now (accelerating
second at the darkest) because that's really not what I am after.
Besides that, there has to be some other way around the problem. It's
not really a matter of crema volume, it's an overall deficiency of
mouthfeel.

When extracting, the "cone" at the bottom of the basket (using an NPF)
is shallow and incohesive.

Keep in mind that the Yirg I am talking about here is a dry processed
bean, and not the tea-like, high-acid Yirg we are used to.



 
Date: 04 Nov 2006 16:49:42
From: JoeP
Subject: Re: Espresso extraction problems, FAB homeroast


On Nov 4, 2:39 pm, "cpl593h" <CPL5...@gmail.com > wrote:
> Well, it's a pulped natural high grown central and a dry processed
> Yirg, so they aren't exactly going to rip your mouth open.
>
> I'd like to find a solution to the problem (find out why, at least)
> before I admit defeat and move on to something else.

Matt,

Have you tried going darker than your used too? I know that sounds
weird but I've found that certain beans when I'm having a hard time
with them just need a slightly darker roast and it does something to
the elasticity of crema that seems to work. Your description of thin
tasting,etc... would want me to go darker with my roast. You should try
that Yirg with some of the DYB and see how it turns out, I'm curious.
The only other solution that I've found is to let the beans rest longer
than I normally do which also gives that nice "stickyness" in the
crema. I know you have probably tried all that but there's my shot in
the dark ;)

Joe
www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com



  
Date: 05 Nov 2006 11:59:23
From: Bertie Doe
Subject: Re: Espresso extraction problems, FAB homeroast

"JoeP" wrote in message >
> On Nov 4, 2:39 pm, "cpl593h" wrote:
>> Well, it's a pulped natural high grown central and a dry processed
>> Yirg, so they aren't exactly going to rip your mouth open.
>>
>> I'd like to find a solution to the problem (find out why, at least)
>> before I admit defeat and move on to something else.
>
> Matt,
>
> You should try
> that Yirg with some of the DYB and see how it turns out, I'm curious.
> The only other solution that I've found is to let the beans rest longer
> than I normally do which also gives that nice "stickyness" in the
> crema. I know you have probably tried all that but there's my shot in
> the dark ;)
>
> Joe
Bit of a coincidence, but I mentioned in the Geek last week, about an
experiment I did with Monsooned Malabar and DYB. Blending them together,
seemed to cancel out each others highlights.
But when layering 8gr of the MM in the bottom of the basket, level and light
tamp, then overlaid 8gr of the DYB, level and light tamped. Strangley, the
earthy mustiness of one and the buttery notes of the DYB surfaced - weird
chemistry. Subsequently tried with other SO's but no luck.
I wonder if it would work with Yirg at the bottom and DYB at the top? I'm
plum out of Yirg, or I would try it myself. Back OT, yep I'm aiming darker
as Winter drawers on.
Bertie




 
Date: 04 Nov 2006 14:39:08
From: cpl593h
Subject: Re: Espresso extraction problems, FAB homeroast
Well, it's a pulped natural high grown central and a dry processed
Yirg, so they aren't exactly going to rip your mouth open.

I'd like to find a solution to the problem (find out why, at least)
before I admit defeat and move on to something else.



 
Date: 04 Nov 2006 14:18:26
From: Dan
Subject: Re: Espresso extraction problems, FAB homeroast

cpl593h wrote:

> How should I approach the roast differently? Is it possible that I am
> overdrying the beans at a particular stage?

This may sound dumb, but why not try just using beans that work well
for you for espresso?



  
Date: 04 Nov 2006 17:23:24
From: Moka Java
Subject: Re: Espresso extraction problems, FAB homeroast
Dan wrote:

> cpl593h wrote:
>
>
>>How should I approach the roast differently? Is it possible that I am
>>overdrying the beans at a particular stage?
>
>
> This may sound dumb, but why not try just using beans that work well
> for you for espresso?
>

I agree. Yirg and a high grown central are not what I'd choose for
espresso, they're too bright. For a single origin espresso try Harrar
or Sumatra.

R "unless you really like that jaw cracking wince when you sip that
double ristretto" TF


   
Date: 05 Nov 2006 02:53:09
From: Ed Needham
Subject: Re: Espresso extraction problems, FAB homeroast
I think a little bit of Yirg in an espresso blend is yummy for a nice
finish.

--
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"
http://www.homeroaster.com
(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

"Moka Java" <rtwatches@fishyahoo.com > wrote in message
news:4r4ibbFpkoicU1@individual.net...

> I agree. Yirg and a high grown central are not what I'd choose for
> espresso, they're too bright. For a single origin espresso try Harrar or
> Sumatra.
>
> R "unless you really like that jaw cracking wince when you sip that double
> ristretto" TF