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Date: 26 Nov 2006 18:11:40
From:
Subject: Espresso/demitasse cups
I've been a wine enthusiast for many years, and see what a huge
difference the wine glass makes to the wine experience.

Is the same true of espresso? That is, does the cup matter?

If so, what is a good espresso cup? I really like the Illy cups -
especially the Salgado collection. But, at $50 (USD) for each
individual cup, I wonder if I'm just paying for the artwork, or if it
will actually make a difference to the palate?

Any guidance would be appreciated :)





 
Date: 27 Nov 2006 08:23:02
From: Flasherly
Subject: Re: Espresso/demitasse cups

fractal.curves@gmail.com wrote:
> I've been a wine enthusiast for many years, and see what a huge
> difference the wine glass makes to the wine experience.
>
> Is the same true of espresso? That is, does the cup matter?
>
> If so, what is a good espresso cup? I really like the Illy cups -
> especially the Salgado collection. But, at $50 (USD) for each
> individual cup, I wonder if I'm just paying for the artwork, or if it
> will actually make a difference to the palate?
>
> Any guidance would be appreciated :)

Suppose, like a deeper burgandy, brandy, or preferably heated cognac, a
container not a hinderance by width to olfactory sense, so in smelling
the taste of coffee passing over the tongue. Coffee needn't be within a
leeway for custom or temperature, but instead a bias of individual
habit. I prefer coffee from thick glass, a small beer stein that holds
five or six ounces. Clear to see characteristics and color of the
mixture from a handle easily grasped. Brew temperature is a scorched
experience if sipping too soon through it to mitigate a sensation of
pain. Although a larger thick-walled glass is first heated, unlike a
refractory crucible, it's temperature is then subject to time
characteristics of radiating heat, subjectively to determine when heat
and taste coincide. Cream steamed in a larger glass that's then heated
when coffee is added. Shot glasses and Arabic serving methods I'd
consider better account for a faster temperature dissipation when
drinking neatly and with less mind for nosing about a mug.



 
Date: 26 Nov 2006 22:19:12
From: Harry Moos
Subject: Re: Espresso/demitasse cups
My favorite espresso cup is a thick-walled ceramic, restaurant grade. I
avoid china cups. The thin-walled cups let the coffee cool too quickly. My
favorite coffee cup is a thick-walled 6 oz restaurant grade cup I got from
my grandmother 60 years ago. Heavy, plain white, and keeps the coffee hot.
I have lots of cups, Illy, Lavazza, Pasquini, in both espresso and cappucino
sizes, but I still prefer the heavy cups. The Illy cups are attractive, but
they are hard for me to hold; they want to drop to a spilling angle.

<fractal.curves@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1164593500.311119.28160@45g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
> I've been a wine enthusiast for many years, and see what a huge
> difference the wine glass makes to the wine experience.
>
> Is the same true of espresso? That is, does the cup matter?
>
> If so, what is a good espresso cup? I really like the Illy cups -
> especially the Salgado collection. But, at $50 (USD) for each
> individual cup, I wonder if I'm just paying for the artwork, or if it
> will actually make a difference to the palate?
>
> Any guidance would be appreciated :)
>




  
Date: 27 Nov 2006 16:53:04
From: Danny
Subject: Re: Espresso/demitasse cups
Harry Moos wrote:
> My favorite espresso cup is a thick-walled ceramic, restaurant grade. I
> avoid china cups. The thin-walled cups let the coffee cool too quickly.-snip-

My customers disagree. I have both thick walled and thin walled
Trucillo logo'd cups, and customers prefer the thin walled (even when
preheated, the thick walled cups absorb the heat from the liquid more
quickly).


--
Regards, Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
http://www.malabargold.co.uk (UK/EU ordering for Malabar Gold blend)



   
Date: 27 Nov 2006 11:22:16
From: Harry Moos
Subject: Re: Espresso/demitasse cups
I always heat the cup with hot water, which also kicks on the heater to get
ready for the shot. So the cup is usually quite warm by the time I pour the
shot. But I am not surprised that customers would choose the thin-walled
cups. My choice may be more nostalgia than science.

"Danny" <danny@nospam.gaggia-espresso.com > wrote in message
news:4t0jduF11pm2eU2@mid.individual.net...
> Harry Moos wrote:
>> My favorite espresso cup is a thick-walled ceramic, restaurant grade. I
>> avoid china cups. The thin-walled cups let the coffee cool too
>> quickly.-snip-
>
> My customers disagree. I have both thick walled and thin walled Trucillo
> logo'd cups, and customers prefer the thin walled (even when preheated,
> the thick walled cups absorb the heat from the liquid more quickly).
>
>
> --
> Regards, Danny
>
> http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
> http://www.malabargold.co.uk (UK/EU ordering for Malabar Gold blend)
>




    
Date: 27 Nov 2006 18:22:56
From: Danny
Subject: Re: Espresso/demitasse cups
Harry Moos wrote:
> I always heat the cup with hot water, which also kicks on the heater to get
> ready for the shot. So the cup is usually quite warm by the time I pour the
> shot. But I am not surprised that customers would choose the thin-walled
> cups. My choice may be more nostalgia than science.

I always pre-heat the cup in boiling water before pulling the shot.
My evidence isn't scientific, just the preference of the regular
espresso drinkers, who've actually commented on the difference, but I
can see the science behind why they are correct...


--
Regards, Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
http://www.malabargold.co.uk (UK/EU ordering for Malabar Gold blend)



  
Date: 27 Nov 2006 06:59:16
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Espresso/demitasse cups
On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 22:19:12 -0600, "Harry Moos" <harrym@ruraltel.net >
wrote:

>My favorite espresso cup is a thick-walled ceramic, restaurant grade. I
>avoid china cups. The thin-walled cups let the coffee cool too quickly. My
>favorite coffee cup is a thick-walled 6 oz restaurant grade cup I got from
>my grandmother 60 years ago. Heavy, plain white, and keeps the coffee hot.

Depends how hot the cup is before the coffee hits it. Heavy cups also
make great heat sinks.

shall


   
Date: 27 Nov 2006 12:48:21
From: Andy Schecter
Subject: Re: Espresso/demitasse cups
shall wrote:
> Heavy cups also make great heat sinks.

Huh, I was wondering what causes "sink shots," thanks! :-)

--


-Andy S.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/


 
Date: 26 Nov 2006 19:17:39
From: Cordovero
Subject: Re: Espresso/demitasse cups
If you're planning on sipping, nothing beats the Bodum double-walled (you
have three styles to choose from). If you're gonna' gulp quickly, any
preheated ceramic is fine.

C

<fractal.curves@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1164593500.311119.28160@45g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
> I've been a wine enthusiast for many years, and see what a huge
> difference the wine glass makes to the wine experience.
>
> Is the same true of espresso? That is, does the cup matter?
>
> If so, what is a good espresso cup? I really like the Illy cups -
> especially the Salgado collection. But, at $50 (USD) for each
> individual cup, I wonder if I'm just paying for the artwork, or if it
> will actually make a difference to the palate?
>
> Any guidance would be appreciated :)
>




 
Date: 26 Nov 2006 18:53:18
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Espresso/demitasse cups
It is the artwork and the inflated Illy brand.

good cups and saucers = $5 ea. see bodum.

DAVe
www.hitechespresso.com



 
Date: 27 Nov 2006 02:20:48
From: Alan
Subject: Re: Espresso/demitasse cups

<fractal.curves@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1164593500.311119.28160@45g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
> I've been a wine enthusiast for many years, and see what a huge
> difference the wine glass makes to the wine experience.
>
> Is the same true of espresso? That is, does the cup matter?
>
> If so, what is a good espresso cup? I really like the Illy cups -
> especially the Salgado collection. But, at $50 (USD) for each
> individual cup, I wonder if I'm just paying for the artwork, or if it
> will actually make a difference to the palate?
>
> Any guidance would be appreciated :)

any nicely pre-warmed ceramic or glass demitasse would be fine.

yes, you'd be paying for the artwork. but if you like the art work . . .

avoid paper, plastic, or metal




 
Date: 26 Nov 2006 18:19:43
From:
Subject: Re: Espresso/demitasse cups
To add to the previous question - anybody have any opinion about
Bodum's double-walled cups? Does the added insulation really make a
difference to the quality of the shot? If not, I think I'd rather drink
from porcelain cups...just a personal preference. I just don't like the
way the Bodum glasses look. I prefer thin and elegant when it comes to
glass, not double-walled like Bodum makes. But, assuming the insulation
keeps the coffee hotter longer, *and* the hotter coffee makes for a
more satisfying shot, I'd be up for a bit of ugly. I already close my
eyes to savor my espresso anyway :-)



fractal.cur...@gmail.com wrote:
> I've been a wine enthusiast for many years, and see what a huge
> difference the wine glass makes to the wine experience.
>
> Is the same true of espresso? That is, does the cup matter?
>
> If so, what is a good espresso cup? I really like the Illy cups -
> especially the Salgado collection. But, at $50 (USD) for each
> individual cup, I wonder if I'm just paying for the artwork, or if it
> will actually make a difference to the palate?
>
> Any guidance would be appreciated :)



  
Date: 27 Nov 2006 04:13:51
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Espresso/demitasse cups
On 26 Nov 2006 18:19:43 -0800, fractal.curves@gmail.com wrote:

>To add to the previous question - anybody have any opinion about
>Bodum's double-walled cups? Does the added insulation really make a
>difference to the quality of the shot? If not, I think I'd rather drink
>from porcelain cups...just a personal preference. I just don't like the
>way the Bodum glasses look. I prefer thin and elegant when it comes to
>glass, not double-walled like Bodum makes. But, assuming the insulation
>keeps the coffee hotter longer, *and* the hotter coffee makes for a
>more satisfying shot, I'd be up for a bit of ugly. I already close my
>eyes to savor my espresso anyway :-)
>
>
>
>fractal.cur...@gmail.com wrote:
>> I've been a wine enthusiast for many years, and see what a huge
>> difference the wine glass makes to the wine experience.
>>
>> Is the same true of espresso? That is, does the cup matter?
>>
>> If so, what is a good espresso cup? I really like the Illy cups -
>> especially the Salgado collection. But, at $50 (USD) for each
>> individual cup, I wonder if I'm just paying for the artwork, or if it
>> will actually make a difference to the palate?
>>
>> Any guidance would be appreciated :)

Well, I'm a huge Salgado fan, so the art comes first on his cups. (BTW
they are $30, not $50). Illy is a little late on the 2006 edition..

I like both the Illy clear crystal "Nudes" (out of production) and the
Bodum Pavinas. I actually alternate between them, because the espresso
tastes different at different temperatures (the Bodums stay hotter).

shall


   
Date: 27 Nov 2006 11:02:23
From: Neal Reid
Subject: Re: Espresso/demitasse cups
In article <o9pkm2h96ntvtuislt46v8ci0erke09mt4@4ax.com >,
shall <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote:

> I actually alternate between them, because the espresso
> tastes different at different temperatures (the Bodums stay hotter).

Your straight espresso shots stay around long enough to note the
difference? For capp's I can see it, but for me, by the time a 2
oz. shot would be cooled enough to taste the difference, it's gone!

--
M for N in address to mail reply


    
Date: 27 Nov 2006 17:34:04
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Espresso/demitasse cups
On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 11:02:23 -0500, Neal Reid <NealReid@Nagma.ca >
wrote:

>In article <o9pkm2h96ntvtuislt46v8ci0erke09mt4@4ax.com>,
> shall <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> I actually alternate between them, because the espresso
>> tastes different at different temperatures (the Bodums stay hotter).
>
>Your straight espresso shots stay around long enough to note the
>difference? For capp's I can see it, but for me, by the time a 2
>oz. shot would be cooled enough to taste the difference, it's gone!

The Illy Nudes are thick crystal, and they don't terribly hot on top
of my (non-HX) Zaffiro. The heatsink effect cools the espresso on
contact. The temperature difference from the Bodums is obvious from
the first sip.

I understand many Italian cafes keep their cups submerged in very hot
water until needed to avoid this effect.

shall


     
Date: 27 Nov 2006 17:47:49
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Espresso/demitasse cups
shall <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote in
news:838mm2t5bj4mpi6goh26f5h25e4cpsc6j8@4ax.com:

> On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 11:02:23 -0500, Neal Reid <NealReid@Nagma.ca>
> wrote:
>
>>In article <o9pkm2h96ntvtuislt46v8ci0erke09mt4@4ax.com>,
>> shall <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I actually alternate between them, because the espresso
>>> tastes different at different temperatures (the Bodums stay hotter).
>>
>>Your straight espresso shots stay around long enough to note the
>>difference? For capp's I can see it, but for me, by the time a 2
>>oz. shot would be cooled enough to taste the difference, it's gone!
>
> The Illy Nudes are thick crystal, and they don't terribly hot on top
> of my (non-HX) Zaffiro. The heatsink effect cools the espresso on
> contact. The temperature difference from the Bodums is obvious from
> the first sip.
>
> I understand many Italian cafes keep their cups submerged in very hot
> water until needed to avoid this effect.
>
> shall
>
Howdy shall!

The way most Itlaians drink their espressos in one scalding gulp, it
probably doesn't matter if a cup keeps the fluid hot as long as the cup is
properly heated in the first place.

When last in Italy I noticed some of the busier coffee stands had dedicated
cup warmers. These utilized steam and heat lamps, with steam most often
used.

Robert (duck & cover) Harmon
--
http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
Remove "Z" to reply via email.


      
Date: 28 Nov 2006 21:59:25
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Espresso/demitasse cups
On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 17:47:49 GMT, Robert Harmon
<r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com > wrote:

>Howdy shall!
>
>The way most Itlaians drink their espressos in one scalding gulp, it
>probably doesn't matter if a cup keeps the fluid hot as long as the cup is
>properly heated in the first place.
>
>When last in Italy I noticed some of the busier coffee stands had dedicated
>cup warmers. These utilized steam and heat lamps, with steam most often
>used.
>
>Robert (duck & cover) Harmon

Or you can let Jura Capresso solve the problem (for only $1,000).
http://www.bornrich.org/entry/jura-capresso-coffee-cup-warmer/

shall


  
Date: 26 Nov 2006 21:30:43
From: Mike Hartigan
Subject: Re: Espresso/demitasse cups
WRT the Bodum shot glasses, I use them strictly for brewing. The fit
under my Gaggia's portafilter better than my demitasses. The double
wall keeps the shot from cooling off so quickly, but I like it
because it keeps me from burning my fingers.

In article <1164593983.296687.295180@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com >,
fractal.curves@gmail.com says...
> To add to the previous question - anybody have any opinion about
> Bodum's double-walled cups? Does the added insulation really make a
> difference to the quality of the shot? If not, I think I'd rather drink
> from porcelain cups...just a personal preference. I just don't like the
> way the Bodum glasses look. I prefer thin and elegant when it comes to
> glass, not double-walled like Bodum makes. But, assuming the insulation
> keeps the coffee hotter longer, *and* the hotter coffee makes for a
> more satisfying shot, I'd be up for a bit of ugly. I already close my
> eyes to savor my espresso anyway :-)
>
>
>
> fractal.cur...@gmail.com wrote:
> > I've been a wine enthusiast for many years, and see what a huge
> > difference the wine glass makes to the wine experience.
> >
> > Is the same true of espresso? That is, does the cup matter?
> >
> > If so, what is a good espresso cup? I really like the Illy cups -
> > especially the Salgado collection. But, at $50 (USD) for each
> > individual cup, I wonder if I'm just paying for the artwork, or if it
> > will actually make a difference to the palate?
> >
> > Any guidance would be appreciated :)
>
>

--
-Mike