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Date: 28 Apr 2007 17:31:32
From: Sophie
Subject: Esspresso newbie help
Whats a good and CHEAP (use your discression) esspresso machine for
someone that doesn't have a ton of cash on hand and hasn't used an
esspresso machine before?




 
Date: 01 May 2007 14:18:50
From: Danny Joe
Subject: Re: Espresso newbie help-- to the poiint
On May 1, 1:17 pm, Marshall <mrf...@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote:
> On Tue, 01 May 2007 08:48:01 -0500, Sophie <none@yours> wrote:
> >On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 21:00:23 -0500, "Danny Joe"
> ><harry.flashmansqu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>"Sophie" <none@yours> wrote in message
> >>news:jktb3355flnl82ps8hvpcn61gi0rn8i5s4@4ax.com...
> >>snip
> >>> Hmm...Just looked up Victor Allen, and they aren't based in Madison
> >>> but Little Chute, which is very close to where I am.
>
> >>for someone looking for help you are awfully coy in describing what you want
> >>and where you are.
>
> >Well if I said I lived in Neenah a lot of people on here probably
> >wouldn't know where that was.
>
> Bond.
>
> Marshall

AND everyone knows Kleneex!

This is a smart group. It is easy enough to google Neenah and see it
is close to Appleton (and Menasha) and then say, "Try Joe Blow's
roaster on Memorial Drive!"

Not really complaining. I am just nosey and want to know where people
are.

Danny (Now in Houston. Born and bred in Appleton) Joe



  
Date: 02 May 2007 08:58:02
From: Sophie
Subject: Re: Espresso newbie help-- to the poiint
On 1 May 2007 14:18:50 -0700, Danny Joe <dpiette@gmail.com > wrote:

>On May 1, 1:17 pm, Marshall <mrf...@ihatespamearthlink.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 01 May 2007 08:48:01 -0500, Sophie <none@yours> wrote:
>> >On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 21:00:23 -0500, "Danny Joe"
>> ><harry.flashmansqu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >>"Sophie" <none@yours> wrote in message
>> >>news:jktb3355flnl82ps8hvpcn61gi0rn8i5s4@4ax.com...
>> >>snip
>> >>> Hmm...Just looked up Victor Allen, and they aren't based in Madison
>> >>> but Little Chute, which is very close to where I am.
>>
>> >>for someone looking for help you are awfully coy in describing what you want
>> >>and where you are.
>>
>> >Well if I said I lived in Neenah a lot of people on here probably
>> >wouldn't know where that was.
>>
>> Bond.
>>
>> Marshall
>
> AND everyone knows Kleneex!
>
>This is a smart group. It is easy enough to google Neenah and see it
>is close to Appleton (and Menasha) and then say, "Try Joe Blow's
>roaster on Memorial Drive!"
>
>Not really complaining. I am just nosey and want to know where people
>are.
>
>Danny (Now in Houston. Born and bred in Appleton) Joe

Well I've had enough people say, "where the heck is Neenah" before
that I just don't bother mentioning it unless someone askes.

BTW, Victor Allen coffee is freshest on Thursdays in the open bean bin
at my local grocery store. I know because I have emailed them.


   
Date: 03 May 2007 04:07:32
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: Espresso newbie help-- to the poiint
Sophie <none@yours > wrote:



    
Date: 03 May 2007 10:07:32
From: Sophie
Subject: Re: Espresso newbie help-- to the poiint
On Thu, 03 May 2007 04:07:32 GMT, ross@math.hawaii.NOSPAM.edu (D.
Ross) wrote:

>Sophie <none@yours> wrote:
>
>


     
Date: 03 May 2007 08:15:12
From: Cordovero
Subject: Re: Espresso newbie help-- to the poiint

> According to them, they remove the old beans and replace them with
> fresh ones once a week, on Thursdays.

He's just saying that "fresh beans" to a grocery store manager usually
means, at best, "fresh from the delivery truck" (though it really usually
means "from a sealed container in the storeroom")-- but that doesn't tell
you when they've been roasted.

C




      
Date: 03 May 2007 14:13:31
From: Sophie
Subject: Re: Espresso newbie help-- to the poiint
On Thu, 3 May 2007 08:15:12 -0700, "Cordovero"
<cordoveroremovexxx@yahooxxx.com > wrote:

>
>> According to them, they remove the old beans and replace them with
>> fresh ones once a week, on Thursdays.
>
>He's just saying that "fresh beans" to a grocery store manager usually
>means, at best, "fresh from the delivery truck" (though it really usually
>means "from a sealed container in the storeroom")-- but that doesn't tell
>you when they've been roasted.


They are delivered each week by Victor Allen's. I think they take
care of it all.

Now I didn't ask when they roasted them. However they did say they
were fresher than the ones in the bags.


       
Date: 03 May 2007 18:40:33
From: Sophie
Subject: Re: Espresso newbie help-- to the poiint
I picked up some Victor Allen's Coffee - Soft Espresso coffee


 
Date: 29 Apr 2007 16:11:32
From: Jim
Subject: Re: Esspresso newbie help
Sophie wrote:

> Whats a good and CHEAP (use your discression) esspresso machine for
> someone that doesn't have a ton of cash on hand and hasn't used an
> esspresso machine before?

Check local craigslist for quality machines at a decent price. I bought
a very low miles Gaggia Classic for $200. Also got a used Gaggia MDF
grinder off of ebay for a fraction of new, because I had to install a
cheap part (the lever was broken).

Cheap usually means inferior. Go for QUALITY at the best price you can get.


  
Date: 29 Apr 2007 16:16:33
From: Jim
Subject: Re: Esspresso newbie help
Jim wrote:

> Sophie wrote:
>
>> Whats a good and CHEAP (use your discression) esspresso machine for
>> someone that doesn't have a ton of cash on hand and hasn't used an
>> esspresso machine before?
>
>
> Check local craigslist for quality machines at a decent price. I bought
> a very low miles Gaggia Classic for $200. Also got a used Gaggia MDF
> grinder off of ebay for a fraction of new, because I had to install a
> cheap part (the lever was broken).
>
> Cheap usually means inferior. Go for QUALITY at the best price you can
> get.

- forgot to mention: Before that Gaggia classic, I bought a decent used
Starbucks pump driven machine (the type that sell for $200 range new)
for dirt. Maybe $15? Just watch craigslist and be ready to jump. That
Starbucks machine was not what I consider quality, and I was using an
AWFUL cheap blade type grinder. But the cheap setup was good enough to
get me hooked. When it died, I upgraded to the Gaggia. The difference
is night and day.


 
Date: 29 Apr 2007 11:51:28
From: Dave b
Subject: Re: Espresso newbie help-- to the poiint
On Apr 29, 12:19 pm, "Robert Harmon" <r_h_har...@Zhotmail.com > wrote:
> Howdy Cordo!
> Just out of curiosity, and with no agenda one way or the other, why do you
> discourage buying Gaggia machines on eBay.

[oh you have an agenda]


'cuz many of them are JUNK!



 
Date: 29 Apr 2007 07:18:41
From: Dave b
Subject: Re: Espresso newbie help-- to the poiint
On Apr 28, 6:31 pm, Sophie <none@yours > wrote:
> Whats a good and CHEAP (use your discression) esspresso machine for
> someone that doesn't have a ton of cash on hand and hasn't used an
> esspresso machine before?

no one said USED, so there are several NEW Gaggias for $200.00
and a grinder?

You need a grinder.

a used refurb Gaggia MDF about $150 or so w/ warranty

have owned both for years, and they work just fine.

both available from WholeLattelove.com.

Some will preach that you must own their machine -- their one and
only, ever.

and that you must spend $ 1,000.00

just not true. Geez, you might not even like espresso!

Dave
Saeco / Gaggia service SE



  
Date: 29 Apr 2007 10:54:07
From: Sophie
Subject: Re: Espresso newbie help-- to the poiint
On 29 Apr 2007 07:18:41 -0700, Dave b <davebobblane@gmail.com > wrote:

>On Apr 28, 6:31 pm, Sophie <none@yours> wrote:
>> Whats a good and CHEAP (use your discression) esspresso machine for
>> someone that doesn't have a ton of cash on hand and hasn't used an
>> esspresso machine before?
>
>no one said USED, so there are several NEW Gaggias for $200.00
>and a grinder?
>
>You need a grinder.
>
>a used refurb Gaggia MDF about $150 or so w/ warranty
>
>have owned both for years, and they work just fine.
>
>both available from WholeLattelove.com.
>
>Some will preach that you must own their machine -- their one and
>only, ever.
>
>and that you must spend $ 1,000.00
>
>just not true. Geez, you might not even like espresso!

WholeLatteLove.com has too macny choices (at least for the newbie).

I might even try roasting at home, since I found a cool article on how
to use an air pop popcorn machine to roast at home.. CoffeeGeek.com I
think.


   
Date: 29 Apr 2007 18:04:33
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Espresso newbie help-- to the poiint
On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 10:54:07 -0500, Sophie <none@yours > wrote:

>I might even try roasting at home, since I found a cool article on how
>to use an air pop popcorn machine to roast at home.. CoffeeGeek.com I
>think.

Do yourself a favor. The well-meaning enthusiasts on alt.coffee will
have you fixed up with a home roasting rig before your first express
machine arrives. Ignore their advice for now. You will have enough to
deal with learning how to grind, tamp and brew your coffee. This
process will take weeks, if not months (in some respects it goes on
forever).

Find yourself a nice, reliable, forgiving professionally roasted blend
with which you can learn how to make great espresso. Then, when you
know what you're doing, consider exploring home roasting.

Marshall


    
Date: 03 May 2007 11:34:26
From: theotherjo@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Espresso newbie help-- to the poiint
On May 3, 11:06 am, "Cordovero" <cordoveroremove...@yahooxxx.com >
wrote:
> > I noticed yesterday that starbucks uses a "best used by" statement on
> > their bags. I would like to email them to find out the skinny on their...
>
> I have a recollection (reliable?) that *$ uses 6 months as their "best by"
> framework.
>
> C

Thank you C, I'm researching a startup roasting biz. If I learn
anything more specific regarding *$ I'll put it here first.
Joe



    
Date: 03 May 2007 10:54:33
From: theotherjo@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Espresso newbie help-- to the poiint
On May 3, 8:15 am, "Cordovero" <cordoveroremove...@yahooxxx.com >
wrote:
> > According to them, they remove the old beans and replace them with
> > fresh ones once a week, on Thursdays.
>
> He's just saying that "fresh beans" to a grocery store manager usually
> means, at best, "fresh from the delivery truck" (though it really usually
> means "from a sealed container in the storeroom")-- but that doesn't tell
> you when they've been roasted.
>
> C

Will the craft roasting industry ever get to the point that Roast
dates are common place on the bags?
Sorry if I'm threading a little off topic Sophie.
Joseph



    
Date: 03 May 2007 10:52:30
From: theotherjo@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Espresso newbie help-- to the poiint
On May 3, 8:15 am, "Cordovero" <cordoveroremove...@yahooxxx.com >
wrote:
> > According to them, they remove the old beans and replace them with
> > fresh ones once a week, on Thursdays.
>
> He's just saying that "fresh beans" to a grocery store manager usually
> means, at best, "fresh from the delivery truck" (though it really usually
> means "from a sealed container in the storeroom")-- but that doesn't tell
> you when they've been roasted.
>
> C

I noticed yesterday that starbucks uses a "best used by" statement on
their bags. I would like to email them to find out the skinny on their
meaning of that or their official statement on fresh. I have always
wondered. I was researching Roasting and stumbled on this roasters
site. He seemed to be a "Roasting Aficionado", "I'm still learning
what that means." His statement was that, if the roasted beans are any
older than 5 days from Roast Date they are beyond the optimum point
for the discriminating coffee drinker. Am I warm?
Joseph



     
Date: 03 May 2007 11:06:59
From: Cordovero
Subject: Re: Espresso newbie help-- to the poiint
> I noticed yesterday that starbucks uses a "best used by" statement on
> their bags. I would like to email them to find out the skinny on their...

I have a recollection (reliable?) that *$ uses 6 months as their "best by"
framework.

C




    
Date: 30 Apr 2007 02:01:16
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: Espresso newbie help-- to the poiint


     
Date: 30 Apr 2007 11:17:57
From: Bill (Adopt)
Subject: Re: Espresso newbie help-- to the poiint
In article <46354669.48935235@localhost >,
D. Ross <ross@math.hawaii.NOSPAM.edu > wrote:

> I second this.

..and thirded or fourthed, along with Danny..

> There are several fine roasters in Wisconsin, you can get
> excellent, tasty fresh beans without trouble.

> As for machine choice, buy a Gaggia Espresso and either a Gaggia MDF
> grinder, or - if you have counter space - get a Cunill Tranquilo from
> Sovranastore.com.

..or a similar (new/cheap when on special offer) commercial
Cunill grinder - or even one refurbished by an established
roaster and or an equipment supplier that others also seem
to trust...

As a pure aside and hopefully not information overload,
although such grinders may initially seem imposing, (the
size perhaps of a Kenwood Chef Major food mixer), they will
repay your investment not only with decades of use in a
domestic environment, but with a vastly better taste with
added verve to your espressos and to all other variety of
coffee drinks.

One espresso - even cappa or latte - and you will notice
the quality difference.

Having presently only needed to try two for obvious reasons;
one a small, well-constructed if reasonably cheap Hitachi burr
grinder which still does an adequate job of preparing filter and
cafietere coffee and the second, (gratefully as much on David R's
advice as any), a cheaper commercial Cunill CT-1 not dissimilar
to it's Tranquilo cousin and on special offer from an established
merchant, my simple two-stage experience is that the grinder is
by far and away /the/ most important thing..

It's probably true to say that the whole coffee experience
hangs upon the quality of the grinder.

In comparison the machine, although clearly important in it's
own right and despite the many with hunky-looking bells and
whistles, has a lot less affect upon the final drink than a
decent grinder's gentle workhorse preparation. I'll bet you
will notice the difference immediately between grinders ..but
nothing like as much between machines.

> For a combined investment under $450 you will be set for
> years, if not for life

..erm.. yes :)) ..but personally not yet ready to go the local
roaster/grinder and on to the great knock-box in the sky... !;'))

..hope helps.. :))

Bill ZFC

--
Adoption InterLink UK with -=- http://www.billsimpson.com/
Domain Host Orpheus Internet -=- http://www.orpheusinternet.co.uk/


     
Date: 30 Apr 2007 06:26:18
From: Danny
Subject: Re: Espresso newbie help-- to the poiint
D. Ross wrote:

> I second this. There are several fine roasters in Wisconsin, you can get
> excellent, tasty fresh beans without trouble.
>

Thirded.

-snip-


--
Regards, Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
(apparently bad grammar but I like it that way...)



     
Date: 29 Apr 2007 22:17:30
From: Sophie
Subject: Re: Espresso newbie help-- to the poiint
On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 02:01:16 GMT, ross@math.hawaii.NOSPAM.edu (D.
Ross) wrote:

>


      
Date: 30 Apr 2007 08:17:01
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: Espresso newbie help-- to the poiint


       
Date: 30 Apr 2007 09:06:58
From: Sophie
Subject: Re: Espresso newbie help-- to the poiint
On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 08:17:01 GMT, ross@math.hawaii.NOSPAM.edu (D.
Ross) wrote:

>


        
Date: 01 May 2007 04:12:43
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: Espresso newbie help-- to the poiint


        
Date: 30 Apr 2007 21:00:23
From: Danny Joe
Subject: Re: Espresso newbie help-- to the poiint

"Sophie" <none@yours > wrote in message
news:jktb3355flnl82ps8hvpcn61gi0rn8i5s4@4ax.com...
snip
> Hmm...Just looked up Victor Allen, and they aren't based in Madison
> but Little Chute, which is very close to where I am.

for someone looking for help you are awfully coy in describing what you want
and where you are.

I guess you are in Squirrely Valley (AKA Fox River Valley)

(http://members.aol.com/berrymanp/alyrics/08squi.html )

Appleton has a couple of roasters on College Ave (if it is not too much
trouble to walk down there and look)

I remember growing up that nobody ever wanted to be the one to go to the
kitchen, as the rest of the family would immediately say "As long as you're
up yet, could you get me ..."

Glad to see things haven't changed much up there.

Danny (figure SOMETHING out for yourself, for crying out loud!) Joe




         
Date: 01 May 2007 08:48:01
From: Sophie
Subject: Re: Espresso newbie help-- to the poiint
On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 21:00:23 -0500, "Danny Joe"
<harry.flashmansquack@gmail.com > wrote:

>
>"Sophie" <none@yours> wrote in message
>news:jktb3355flnl82ps8hvpcn61gi0rn8i5s4@4ax.com...
>snip
>> Hmm...Just looked up Victor Allen, and they aren't based in Madison
>> but Little Chute, which is very close to where I am.
>
>for someone looking for help you are awfully coy in describing what you want
>and where you are.


Well if I said I lived in Neenah a lot of people on here probably
wouldn't know where that was.


          
Date: 01 May 2007 21:57:40
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: Espresso newbie help-- to the poiint


          
Date: 01 May 2007 18:17:32
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Espresso newbie help-- to the poiint
On Tue, 01 May 2007 08:48:01 -0500, Sophie <none@yours > wrote:

>On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 21:00:23 -0500, "Danny Joe"
><harry.flashmansquack@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Sophie" <none@yours> wrote in message
>>news:jktb3355flnl82ps8hvpcn61gi0rn8i5s4@4ax.com...
>>snip
>>> Hmm...Just looked up Victor Allen, and they aren't based in Madison
>>> but Little Chute, which is very close to where I am.
>>
>>for someone looking for help you are awfully coy in describing what you want
>>and where you are.
>
>
>Well if I said I lived in Neenah a lot of people on here probably
>wouldn't know where that was.

Bond.

Marshall


    
Date: 29 Apr 2007 13:32:47
From: Sophie
Subject: Re: Espresso newbie help-- to the poiint
On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 18:04:33 GMT, Marshall
<mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote:

>On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 10:54:07 -0500, Sophie <none@yours> wrote:
>
>>I might even try roasting at home, since I found a cool article on how
>>to use an air pop popcorn machine to roast at home.. CoffeeGeek.com I
>>think.
>
>Do yourself a favor. The well-meaning enthusiasts on alt.coffee will
>have you fixed up with a home roasting rig before your first express
>machine arrives. Ignore their advice for now. You will have enough to
>deal with learning how to grind, tamp and brew your coffee. This
>process will take weeks, if not months (in some respects it goes on
>forever).
>
>Find yourself a nice, reliable, forgiving professionally roasted blend
>with which you can learn how to make great espresso. Then, when you
>know what you're doing, consider exploring home roasting.
>
>Marshall

Yes, they do seem over eager, which no doubt will be the way I get
too. So do you suggest looking at the grounds under a microscope to
check for grind size, or is that just too much for a newbie to deal
with?

I started with a perculator for cofee...YUCK how can people drink that
stuff? Then I got a drip machine as a gift, not bad, but I don't
drink 12 cups at a time. Then of course I ended up going on vaction
to Italy. Then I found out what coffee is supposed to be, at least
for my tastebuds.


   
Date: 29 Apr 2007 09:12:27
From: Cordovero
Subject: Re: Espresso newbie help-- to the poiint
Buy a Gaggia (Espresso, Evolution, Carezza, Coffee, up to you) and a good
grinder (Gaggia MDF minimum, otherwise let the guys at coffeegeek tell you
where to get the Cunill Tranquillo, or better yet, splurge on a Mazzer or
MACAP), and start homeroasting, and you'll be in heaven for relatively
little money.

For what it's worth, I think buying a Gaggia "refurb" at Wholelattelove is a
fine choice, since I'd just assume have their tech inspect it before sale
than a factory person inspect it before sale.

Cordo

P.S. When it comes to Gaggias, don't buy on Ebay.

"Sophie" <none@yours > wrote in message
news:sof933dtb86bugmcb36g2qdkdsp9rjds3n@4ax.com...
> On 29 Apr 2007 07:18:41 -0700, Dave b <davebobblane@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Apr 28, 6:31 pm, Sophie <none@yours> wrote:
>>> Whats a good and CHEAP (use your discression) esspresso machine for
>>> someone that doesn't have a ton of cash on hand and hasn't used an
>>> esspresso machine before?
>>
>>no one said USED, so there are several NEW Gaggias for $200.00
>>and a grinder?
>>
>>You need a grinder.
>>
>>a used refurb Gaggia MDF about $150 or so w/ warranty
>>
>>have owned both for years, and they work just fine.
>>
>>both available from WholeLattelove.com.
>>
>>Some will preach that you must own their machine -- their one and
>>only, ever.
>>
>>and that you must spend $ 1,000.00
>>
>>just not true. Geez, you might not even like espresso!
>
> WholeLatteLove.com has too macny choices (at least for the newbie).
>
> I might even try roasting at home, since I found a cool article on how
> to use an air pop popcorn machine to roast at home.. CoffeeGeek.com I
> think.




    
Date: 29 Apr 2007 13:22:15
From: Sophie
Subject: Re: Espresso newbie help-- to the poiint
The Gaggia's seem to be more in my price range too. If I like doing
it at home, I'm sure I'll end up with a $5,000 machine at some point
:)

On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 09:12:27 -0700, "Cordovero"
<cordoveroremovexxx@yahooxxx.com > wrote:

>Buy a Gaggia (Espresso, Evolution, Carezza, Coffee, up to you) and a good
>grinder (Gaggia MDF minimum, otherwise let the guys at coffeegeek tell you
>where to get the Cunill Tranquillo, or better yet, splurge on a Mazzer or
>MACAP), and start homeroasting, and you'll be in heaven for relatively
>little money.
>
>For what it's worth, I think buying a Gaggia "refurb" at Wholelattelove is a
>fine choice, since I'd just assume have their tech inspect it before sale
>than a factory person inspect it before sale.
>
>Cordo
>
>P.S. When it comes to Gaggias, don't buy on Ebay.
>
>"Sophie" <none@yours> wrote in message
>news:sof933dtb86bugmcb36g2qdkdsp9rjds3n@4ax.com...
>> On 29 Apr 2007 07:18:41 -0700, Dave b <davebobblane@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Apr 28, 6:31 pm, Sophie <none@yours> wrote:
>>>> Whats a good and CHEAP (use your discression) esspresso machine for
>>>> someone that doesn't have a ton of cash on hand and hasn't used an
>>>> esspresso machine before?
>>>
>>>no one said USED, so there are several NEW Gaggias for $200.00
>>>and a grinder?
>>>
>>>You need a grinder.
>>>
>>>a used refurb Gaggia MDF about $150 or so w/ warranty
>>>
>>>have owned both for years, and they work just fine.
>>>
>>>both available from WholeLattelove.com.
>>>
>>>Some will preach that you must own their machine -- their one and
>>>only, ever.
>>>
>>>and that you must spend $ 1,000.00
>>>
>>>just not true. Geez, you might not even like espresso!
>>
>> WholeLatteLove.com has too macny choices (at least for the newbie).
>>
>> I might even try roasting at home, since I found a cool article on how
>> to use an air pop popcorn machine to roast at home.. CoffeeGeek.com I
>> think.
>


    
Date: 29 Apr 2007 17:19:29
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Espresso newbie help-- to the poiint
Howdy Cordo!
Just out of curiosity, and with no agenda one way or the other, why do you
discourage buying Gaggia machines on eBay.
--
Robert (Gig 'em!) Harmon
www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj - My coffee pages
www.tinyurl.com/2tnv87 - Guidelines for newbies.
www.tinyurl.com/37gwfr - I may have stuff available for sale here.

"Cordovero" <cordoveroremovexxx@yahooxxx.com > wrote in message
news:f12g5j$lfd$1@news.Stanford.EDU...
> Buy a Gaggia (Espresso, Evolution, Carezza, Coffee, up to you) and a good
> grinder (Gaggia MDF minimum, otherwise let the guys at coffeegeek tell you
> where to get the Cunill Tranquillo, or better yet, splurge on a Mazzer or
> MACAP), and start homeroasting, and you'll be in heaven for relatively
> little money.
>
> For what it's worth, I think buying a Gaggia "refurb" at Wholelattelove is
> a fine choice, since I'd just assume have their tech inspect it before
> sale than a factory person inspect it before sale.
>
> Cordo
>
> P.S. When it comes to Gaggias, don't buy on Ebay.
>
> "Sophie" <none@yours> wrote in message
> news:sof933dtb86bugmcb36g2qdkdsp9rjds3n@4ax.com...
>> On 29 Apr 2007 07:18:41 -0700, Dave b <davebobblane@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Apr 28, 6:31 pm, Sophie <none@yours> wrote:
>>>> Whats a good and CHEAP (use your discression) esspresso machine for
>>>> someone that doesn't have a ton of cash on hand and hasn't used an
>>>> esspresso machine before?
>>>
>>>no one said USED, so there are several NEW Gaggias for $200.00
>>>and a grinder?
>>>
>>>You need a grinder.
>>>
>>>a used refurb Gaggia MDF about $150 or so w/ warranty
>>>
>>>have owned both for years, and they work just fine.
>>>
>>>both available from WholeLattelove.com.
>>>
>>>Some will preach that you must own their machine -- their one and
>>>only, ever.
>>>
>>>and that you must spend $ 1,000.00
>>>
>>>just not true. Geez, you might not even like espresso!
>>
>> WholeLatteLove.com has too macny choices (at least for the newbie).
>>
>> I might even try roasting at home, since I found a cool article on how
>> to use an air pop popcorn machine to roast at home.. CoffeeGeek.com I
>> think.
>
>




     
Date: 29 Apr 2007 16:31:11
From: Cordovero
Subject: Re: Espresso newbie help-- to the poiint
I'd discourage buying any espresso machine on Ebay, with the only exception
being if one can buy it in person.

The reasons are obvious. Boilers can easily be scaled to abandon (Gaggias
can be corroded), hard to find problems (temperature stability, sticky
valve, etc) can be easily hidden but impossible for a newbie to figure out,
rubber gaskets can easily be hardened or cracked (and I'm talking about
boiler seals, not just the brew group), Gaggia boilers can easily crack
(happened to me) in shipping, shipping itself is untrustworthy because UPS
and FedEx people do whatever they want, and, finally, maybe 1 machine in 20
or 30 is properly prepared for shipping (e.g. PROPERLY draining the boiler).

All machines I've been shipped (1 Gaggia, 1 Expobar, and 1 ECM) have had
problems, probably due to shipping but not so sure, and the Expobar, which I
packaged up with supreme precision, arrived with problems to my buyer which
were nonexistent for me.

Is it worth it? Not unless you can fix these machines yourself.

C

"Robert Harmon" <r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com > wrote in message
news:Bs4Zh.6530$j63.6111@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Howdy Cordo!
> Just out of curiosity, and with no agenda one way or the other, why do you
> discourage buying Gaggia machines on eBay.
> --
> Robert (Gig 'em!) Harmon
> www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj - My coffee pages
> www.tinyurl.com/2tnv87 - Guidelines for newbies.
> www.tinyurl.com/37gwfr - I may have stuff available for sale here.
>
> "Cordovero" <cordoveroremovexxx@yahooxxx.com> wrote in message
> news:f12g5j$lfd$1@news.Stanford.EDU...
>> Buy a Gaggia (Espresso, Evolution, Carezza, Coffee, up to you) and a good
>> grinder (Gaggia MDF minimum, otherwise let the guys at coffeegeek tell
>> you where to get the Cunill Tranquillo, or better yet, splurge on a
>> Mazzer or MACAP), and start homeroasting, and you'll be in heaven for
>> relatively little money.
>>
>> For what it's worth, I think buying a Gaggia "refurb" at Wholelattelove
>> is a fine choice, since I'd just assume have their tech inspect it before
>> sale than a factory person inspect it before sale.
>>
>> Cordo
>>
>> P.S. When it comes to Gaggias, don't buy on Ebay.
>>
>> "Sophie" <none@yours> wrote in message
>> news:sof933dtb86bugmcb36g2qdkdsp9rjds3n@4ax.com...
>>> On 29 Apr 2007 07:18:41 -0700, Dave b <davebobblane@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Apr 28, 6:31 pm, Sophie <none@yours> wrote:
>>>>> Whats a good and CHEAP (use your discression) esspresso machine for
>>>>> someone that doesn't have a ton of cash on hand and hasn't used an
>>>>> esspresso machine before?
>>>>
>>>>no one said USED, so there are several NEW Gaggias for $200.00
>>>>and a grinder?
>>>>
>>>>You need a grinder.
>>>>
>>>>a used refurb Gaggia MDF about $150 or so w/ warranty
>>>>
>>>>have owned both for years, and they work just fine.
>>>>
>>>>both available from WholeLattelove.com.
>>>>
>>>>Some will preach that you must own their machine -- their one and
>>>>only, ever.
>>>>
>>>>and that you must spend $ 1,000.00
>>>>
>>>>just not true. Geez, you might not even like espresso!
>>>
>>> WholeLatteLove.com has too macny choices (at least for the newbie).
>>>
>>> I might even try roasting at home, since I found a cool article on how
>>> to use an air pop popcorn machine to roast at home.. CoffeeGeek.com I
>>> think.
>>
>>
>
>




      
Date: 30 Apr 2007 00:49:15
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Espresso newbie help-- to the poiint
I'll grant you that all too often, things bought on eBay are *usually* in
need of a good cleaning - inside & out. And when I used to sell on eBay I
always added insurance costs to the S&H fee just in case they were handled
roughly in transit.

But if someone's reasonably adept with a few simple tools, there's no reason
to hesitate buying any Gaggia from somebody with a good reputation - on eBay
or elsewhere. The big advantage of buying on eBay, and the reason I direct
my friends there, is the buyers protection policy if one pays through
PayPal. In fact, that's the primary reason I will never sell on eBay again;
the buyer has more rights than the seller in a dispute.

Gaggia parts are cheap, readily available, and there's lots of advice for a
newbie to fall back on. You can purchase a pump, boiler top, & 3-way
solenoid coil for any Gaggia needing them for ~$140, so if the machine is
priced right don't be afraid of it, go ahead, buy it & fix it yourself.
Besides, it's my opinion that the best way for a newbie to understand how an
espresso machine works is to tear one apart for a look see.
--
Robert (Gig 'em!) Harmon
www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj - My coffee pages
www.tinyurl.com/2tnv87 - Guidelines for newbies.
www.tinyurl.com/37gwfr - I may have stuff available for sale here.

"Cordovero" <cordoveroremovexxx@yahooxxx.com > wrote in message
news:f139s6$aqv$1@news.Stanford.EDU...
> I'd discourage buying any espresso machine on Ebay, with the only
> exception being if one can buy it in person.
>
> The reasons are obvious. Boilers can easily be scaled to abandon (Gaggias
> can be corroded), hard to find problems (temperature stability, sticky
> valve, etc) can be easily hidden but impossible for a newbie to figure
> out, rubber gaskets can easily be hardened or cracked (and I'm talking
> about boiler seals, not just the brew group), Gaggia boilers can easily
> crack (happened to me) in shipping, shipping itself is untrustworthy
> because UPS and FedEx people do whatever they want, and, finally, maybe 1
> machine in 20 or 30 is properly prepared for shipping (e.g. PROPERLY
> draining the boiler).
>
> All machines I've been shipped (1 Gaggia, 1 Expobar, and 1 ECM) have had
> problems, probably due to shipping but not so sure, and the Expobar, which
> I packaged up with supreme precision, arrived with problems to my buyer
> which were nonexistent for me.
>
> Is it worth it? Not unless you can fix these machines yourself.
>
> C




       
Date: 29 Apr 2007 19:33:30
From: Cordovero
Subject: Re: Espresso newbie help-- to the poiint
> Besides, it's my opinion that the best way for a newbie to understand how
> an espresso machine works is to tear one apart for a look see.

That may be your opinion, but I doubt it's the opinion of a newbie who is
facing a steep learning curve of just what grinding and tamping and steaming
and all of that is about and how it all fits together. I think they just
kinda' want their first espresso machine to arrive in a form that's not
broken.

C




      
Date: 29 Apr 2007 19:30:04
From: Harry Moos
Subject: Re: Espresso newbie help-- to the poiint
Not so obvious. I've bought five espresso machines on eBay with no
problems, and I've sold two or three perfectly good machines there as well.
Maybe I've been lucky. Never had a UPS shipping problem, either, not even
with photographic equipment or computer parts.

"Cordovero" <cordoveroremovexxx@yahooxxx.com > wrote in message
news:f139s6$aqv$1@news.Stanford.EDU...
> I'd discourage buying any espresso machine on Ebay, with the only
> exception being if one can buy it in person.
>
> The reasons are obvious. Boilers can easily be scaled to abandon (Gaggias
> can be corroded), hard to find problems (temperature stability, sticky
> valve, etc) can be easily hidden but impossible for a newbie to figure
> out, rubber gaskets can easily be hardened or cracked (and I'm talking
> about boiler seals, not just the brew group), Gaggia boilers can easily
> crack (happened to me) in shipping, shipping itself is untrustworthy
> because UPS and FedEx people do whatever they want, and, finally, maybe 1
> machine in 20 or 30 is properly prepared for shipping (e.g. PROPERLY
> draining the boiler).
>
> All machines I've been shipped (1 Gaggia, 1 Expobar, and 1 ECM) have had
> problems, probably due to shipping but not so sure, and the Expobar, which
> I packaged up with supreme precision, arrived with problems to my buyer
> which were nonexistent for me.
>
> Is it worth it? Not unless you can fix these machines yourself.
>
> C
>
> "Robert Harmon" <r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Bs4Zh.6530$j63.6111@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>> Howdy Cordo!
>> Just out of curiosity, and with no agenda one way or the other, why do
>> you discourage buying Gaggia machines on eBay.
>> --
>> Robert (Gig 'em!) Harmon
>> www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj - My coffee pages
>> www.tinyurl.com/2tnv87 - Guidelines for newbies.
>> www.tinyurl.com/37gwfr - I may have stuff available for sale here.
>>
>> "Cordovero" <cordoveroremovexxx@yahooxxx.com> wrote in message
>> news:f12g5j$lfd$1@news.Stanford.EDU...
>>> Buy a Gaggia (Espresso, Evolution, Carezza, Coffee, up to you) and a
>>> good grinder (Gaggia MDF minimum, otherwise let the guys at coffeegeek
>>> tell you where to get the Cunill Tranquillo, or better yet, splurge on a
>>> Mazzer or MACAP), and start homeroasting, and you'll be in heaven for
>>> relatively little money.
>>>
>>> For what it's worth, I think buying a Gaggia "refurb" at Wholelattelove
>>> is a fine choice, since I'd just assume have their tech inspect it
>>> before sale than a factory person inspect it before sale.
>>>
>>> Cordo
>>>
>>> P.S. When it comes to Gaggias, don't buy on Ebay.
>>>
>>> "Sophie" <none@yours> wrote in message
>>> news:sof933dtb86bugmcb36g2qdkdsp9rjds3n@4ax.com...
>>>> On 29 Apr 2007 07:18:41 -0700, Dave b <davebobblane@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Apr 28, 6:31 pm, Sophie <none@yours> wrote:
>>>>>> Whats a good and CHEAP (use your discression) esspresso machine for
>>>>>> someone that doesn't have a ton of cash on hand and hasn't used an
>>>>>> esspresso machine before?
>>>>>
>>>>>no one said USED, so there are several NEW Gaggias for $200.00
>>>>>and a grinder?
>>>>>
>>>>>You need a grinder.
>>>>>
>>>>>a used refurb Gaggia MDF about $150 or so w/ warranty
>>>>>
>>>>>have owned both for years, and they work just fine.
>>>>>
>>>>>both available from WholeLattelove.com.
>>>>>
>>>>>Some will preach that you must own their machine -- their one and
>>>>>only, ever.
>>>>>
>>>>>and that you must spend $ 1,000.00
>>>>>
>>>>>just not true. Geez, you might not even like espresso!
>>>>
>>>> WholeLatteLove.com has too macny choices (at least for the newbie).
>>>>
>>>> I might even try roasting at home, since I found a cool article on how
>>>> to use an air pop popcorn machine to roast at home.. CoffeeGeek.com I
>>>> think.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>




       
Date: 29 Apr 2007 19:30:59
From: Cordovero
Subject: Re: Espresso newbie help-- to the poiint

"Harry Moos" <harrym@ruraltel.net > wrote in message
news:ApednT-Ho8sVpajbnZ2dnUVZ_qWvnZ2d@news.ruraltel.net...
> Not so obvious. I've bought five espresso machines on eBay with no
> problems, and I've sold two or three perfectly good machines there as
> well. Maybe I've been lucky. Never had a UPS shipping problem, either,
> not even with photographic equipment or computer parts.
>

I'd be curious to know what machines they were, and whether they were new or
used, and whether they were shipped by a professional establishment clearing
out refurbs.

I'd buy a Delonghi or Krups or something. Not much to break that is subtle.

But 5 used, prosumer or Gaggia machines, from users (not professionals), and
no problems at all? Wow!

C




        
Date: 30 Apr 2007 08:20:15
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: Espresso newbie help-- to the poiint
"Cordovero" <cordoveroremovexxx@yahooxxx.com > wrote:



         
Date: 30 Apr 2007 08:41:33
From: Cordovero
Subject: Re: Espresso newbie help-- to the poiint
You're right, David, I only recommend the 35 dollar Delonghi with pump and
boiler with the caveat that a stepless Macap or Mazzer is bought
simultaneously.

C

"D. Ross" <ross@math.hawaii.NOSPAM.edu > wrote in message
news:4635a65e.962173@localhost...
> "Cordovero" <cordoveroremovexxx@yahooxxx.com> wrote:
>
>


      
Date: 29 Apr 2007 16:50:29
From: Jim
Subject: Re: Espresso newbie help-- to the poiint
Cordovero wrote:

> I'd discourage buying any espresso machine on Ebay, with the only exception
> being if one can buy it in person.
>
> The reasons are obvious. Boilers can easily be scaled to abandon (Gaggias
> can be corroded), hard to find problems (temperature stability, sticky
> valve, etc) can be easily hidden but impossible for a newbie to figure out,
> rubber gaskets can easily be hardened or cracked (and I'm talking about
> boiler seals, not just the brew group), Gaggia boilers can easily crack
> (happened to me) in shipping, shipping itself is untrustworthy because UPS
> and FedEx people do whatever they want, and, finally, maybe 1 machine in 20
> or 30 is properly prepared for shipping (e.g. PROPERLY draining the boiler).
>
> All machines I've been shipped (1 Gaggia, 1 Expobar, and 1 ECM) have had
> problems, probably due to shipping but not so sure, and the Expobar, which I
> packaged up with supreme precision, arrived with problems to my buyer which
> were nonexistent for me.
>
> Is it worth it? Not unless you can fix these machines yourself.
>
> C

My used Gaggia Classic was face-to-face craigslist, from an owner that
had it cleaned by a pro shop before selling.

My used Gaggia MDF was ebay. Seller was clear about the broken lever.
But seller did NOT tell me that it reeked like flavored coffee! I
disassembled and cleaned everything. If it fit, it went in my
ultrasonic cleaner. It cleaned up fine, but what a hassle!

>
> "Robert Harmon" <r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Bs4Zh.6530$j63.6111@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
>>Howdy Cordo!
>>Just out of curiosity, and with no agenda one way or the other, why do you
>>discourage buying Gaggia machines on eBay.
>>--
>>Robert (Gig 'em!) Harmon
>>www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj - My coffee pages
>>www.tinyurl.com/2tnv87 - Guidelines for newbies.
>>www.tinyurl.com/37gwfr - I may have stuff available for sale here.
>>
>>"Cordovero" <cordoveroremovexxx@yahooxxx.com> wrote in message
>>news:f12g5j$lfd$1@news.Stanford.EDU...
>>
>>>Buy a Gaggia (Espresso, Evolution, Carezza, Coffee, up to you) and a good
>>>grinder (Gaggia MDF minimum, otherwise let the guys at coffeegeek tell
>>>you where to get the Cunill Tranquillo, or better yet, splurge on a
>>>Mazzer or MACAP), and start homeroasting, and you'll be in heaven for
>>>relatively little money.
>>>
>>>For what it's worth, I think buying a Gaggia "refurb" at Wholelattelove
>>>is a fine choice, since I'd just assume have their tech inspect it before
>>>sale than a factory person inspect it before sale.
>>>
>>>Cordo
>>>
>>>P.S. When it comes to Gaggias, don't buy on Ebay.
>>>
>>>"Sophie" <none@yours> wrote in message
>>>news:sof933dtb86bugmcb36g2qdkdsp9rjds3n@4ax.com...
>>>
>>>>On 29 Apr 2007 07:18:41 -0700, Dave b <davebobblane@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On Apr 28, 6:31 pm, Sophie <none@yours> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Whats a good and CHEAP (use your discression) esspresso machine for
>>>>>>someone that doesn't have a ton of cash on hand and hasn't used an
>>>>>>esspresso machine before?
>>>>>
>>>>>no one said USED, so there are several NEW Gaggias for $200.00
>>>>>and a grinder?
>>>>>
>>>>>You need a grinder.
>>>>>
>>>>>a used refurb Gaggia MDF about $150 or so w/ warranty
>>>>>
>>>>>have owned both for years, and they work just fine.
>>>>>
>>>>>both available from WholeLattelove.com.
>>>>>
>>>>>Some will preach that you must own their machine -- their one and
>>>>>only, ever.
>>>>>
>>>>>and that you must spend $ 1,000.00
>>>>>
>>>>>just not true. Geez, you might not even like espresso!
>>>>
>>>>WholeLatteLove.com has too macny choices (at least for the newbie).
>>>>
>>>>I might even try roasting at home, since I found a cool article on how
>>>>to use an air pop popcorn machine to roast at home.. CoffeeGeek.com I
>>>>think.
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>


   
Date: 29 Apr 2007 12:15:39
From: Alice Faber
Subject: Re: Espresso newbie help-- to the poiint
In article <sof933dtb86bugmcb36g2qdkdsp9rjds3n@4ax.com >,
Sophie <none@yours > wrote:

>
> WholeLatteLove.com has too macny choices (at least for the newbie).
>
> I might even try roasting at home, since I found a cool article on how
> to use an air pop popcorn machine to roast at home.. CoffeeGeek.com I
> think.

We were all newbies once upon a time.

The hardest thing to wrap your brain around is the grinder--and how much
money you have to spend for a decent one. But, do it. Regardless of what
you later invest in coffee gear, the grinder will stand you in good
stead.

As for roasting, yeah, get a popcorn popper and give it a whirl. I've
found that, while I *can* get better beans locally, I can also get much
worse beans. Roasting my own increases the average quality of the coffee
I drink.

One warning, that I didn't fully understand when I started is that you
*must* have excellent ventilation. Roasting outdoors is ideal, if you
can. People would talk about the smoke given off by roasting; if you
roast indoors without a good exhaust fan, you *will* set off your smoke
detector, even if you don't see much smoke. And worse, oils in the smoke
will settle on kitchen surfaces and be really hard to scrub off. But,
this time of year, it can be very pleasant to sit outdoors on the deck,
watching (and listening to) my beans roast. As a consequence, my
roasting season in Connecticut is, roughly, from April through October
or November (though I did get one early January roasting day in this
winter).

A good way to get started roasting is to order a sampler pack from Sweet
Marias (www.sweetmarias.com). This gets you eight half-pound bags of
green beans from a variety of sources, along with some guidance about
optimal roast levels. And, while you're deciding on your espresso
machine, get yourself a moka pot or French press, so you can taste your
*fresh* roasted beans!

--
AF
"Non Sequitur U has a really, really lousy debate team."
--artyw raises the bar on rec.sport.baseball


    
Date: 29 Apr 2007 13:24:46
From: Sophie
Subject: Re: Espresso newbie help-- to the poiint
On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 12:15:39 -0400, Alice Faber <afaber@panix.com >
wrote:

>In article <sof933dtb86bugmcb36g2qdkdsp9rjds3n@4ax.com>,
> Sophie <none@yours> wrote:
>
>>
>> WholeLatteLove.com has too macny choices (at least for the newbie).
>>
>> I might even try roasting at home, since I found a cool article on how
>> to use an air pop popcorn machine to roast at home.. CoffeeGeek.com I
>> think.
>
>We were all newbies once upon a time.
>
>The hardest thing to wrap your brain around is the grinder--and how much
>money you have to spend for a decent one. But, do it. Regardless of what
>you later invest in coffee gear, the grinder will stand you in good
>stead.
>
>As for roasting, yeah, get a popcorn popper and give it a whirl. I've
>found that, while I *can* get better beans locally, I can also get much
>worse beans. Roasting my own increases the average quality of the coffee
>I drink.

I'll probably try the local whole beans first, then move into
roasting. Have to check I can do it outside first. I don't think
indoor would work, even in Wisconsin (for me anyway).


    
Date: 29 Apr 2007 17:35:51
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Espresso newbie help-- to the poiint
Ditto what Alice says, plus this; what your local roaster offers is what
their taste buds enjoy. If you take a look at Sweet Maria's & do just a bit
of reading you'll find there is no one single origin or blend for espresso.
Like Alice said, try the sampler pack & let Tom know you're a newbie so he
can get you started with less exotic SO's. These are best for newbie's just
learning the basics of home roasting.

As far as the grinder, let me add this; after quality beans the grinder is
the most important item in making good espresso. With good beans & a decent
grinder even low-end espresso machines like Krups & Delonghi are capable of
turning out great shots. Of course it's a lot easier to do with a better
machine but my point is that most folks make the mistake of seeing a great
whiz bang espresso machine at a friends house, as a prop in a movie, or at
their favorite retail store, & decide to buy one so they can have great
espresso at home. What they should do is exactly what you're doing, asking
advice & hopefully taking it to heart.

Enjoy!
--
Robert (Gig 'em!) Harmon
www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj - My coffee pages
www.tinyurl.com/2tnv87 - Guidelines for newbies.
www.tinyurl.com/37gwfr - I may have stuff available for sale here.

"Alice Faber" <afaber@panix.com > wrote in message
news:afaber-D7AC76.12153929042007@reader2.panix.com...
>
> We were all newbies once upon a time.
>
> The hardest thing to wrap your brain around is the grinder--and how much
> money you have to spend for a decent one. But, do it. Regardless of what
> you later invest in coffee gear, the grinder will stand you in good
> stead.
>
> As for roasting, yeah, get a popcorn popper and give it a whirl. I've
> found that, while I *can* get better beans locally, I can also get much
> worse beans. Roasting my own increases the average quality of the coffee
> I drink.
>
> One warning, that I didn't fully understand when I started is that you
> *must* have excellent ventilation. Roasting outdoors is ideal, if you
> can. People would talk about the smoke given off by roasting; if you
> roast indoors without a good exhaust fan, you *will* set off your smoke
> detector, even if you don't see much smoke. And worse, oils in the smoke
> will settle on kitchen surfaces and be really hard to scrub off. But,
> this time of year, it can be very pleasant to sit outdoors on the deck,
> watching (and listening to) my beans roast. As a consequence, my
> roasting season in Connecticut is, roughly, from April through October
> or November (though I did get one early January roasting day in this
> winter).
>
> A good way to get started roasting is to order a sampler pack from Sweet
> Marias (www.sweetmarias.com). This gets you eight half-pound bags of
> green beans from a variety of sources, along with some guidance about
> optimal roast levels. And, while you're deciding on your espresso
> machine, get yourself a moka pot or French press, so you can taste your
> *fresh* roasted beans!
>
> --
> AF
> "Non Sequitur U has a really, really lousy debate team."
> --artyw raises the bar on rec.sport.baseball




    
Date: 29 Apr 2007 09:21:43
From: Cordovero
Subject: Re: Espresso newbie help-- to the poiint
I'm totally with Alice on everything, particularly the part about
ventilation. Basically, I found that the only way not to set off every
smoke alarm around was to roast in the popcorn popper outside, which was
weather dependent and a huge pain for me. Plus, the batches were far too
small to have enough coffee for more than three days or so, let alone make
gift batches at Hanukkah time.

Anyway, for what it's worth, the I-Roast II prices have fallen through the
floor lately. I just picked up my second one for $159 (free shipping and no
tax) new etc. For me, that was very cost effective (since I can roast under
the stove fan indoors, and the batches are roughly twice the size of my
poppers) -- no colanders, cookie sheets, wooden spoons, and no poppers
burning out every couple of months.

C




     
Date: 04 May 2007 10:18:47
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jens_Axel_S=F8gaard?=
Subject: Re: Espresso newbie help-- to the poiint
Cordovero skrev:
> I'm totally with Alice on everything, particularly the part about
> ventilation. Basically, I found that the only way not to set off every
> smoke alarm around was to roast in the popcorn popper outside, which was
> weather dependent and a huge pain for me.

I bought a temperature alarm instead of a smoke alarm for the kitchen.

--
Jens Axel Søgaard


      
Date: 04 May 2007 09:39:58
From: Cordovero
Subject: Re: Espresso newbie help-- to the poiint
> I bought a temperature alarm instead of a smoke alarm for the kitchen.
>
> --
> Jens Axel Søgaard

That's good for the alarm part, but there's still a fair amount of smoke,
even with open windows and a stove vent going. Also, and perhaps more
importantly, popcorn poppers have no chaff filter, so your kitchen will be
convered in floating chaff.

C




       
Date: 04 May 2007 18:42:35
From: Sophie
Subject: Re: Espresso newbie help-- to the poiint
On Fri, 4 May 2007 09:39:58 -0700, "Cordovero"
<cordoveroremovexxx@yahooxxx.com > wrote:

>> I bought a temperature alarm instead of a smoke alarm for the kitchen.
>>
>> --
>> Jens Axel Søgaard
>
>That's good for the alarm part, but there's still a fair amount of smoke,
>even with open windows and a stove vent going. Also, and perhaps more
>importantly, popcorn poppers have no chaff filter, so your kitchen will be
>convered in floating chaff.


Think I'd do mine OUTSIDE :)


     
Date: 29 Apr 2007 13:26:36
From: Sophie
Subject: Re: Espresso newbie help-- to the poiint
On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 09:21:43 -0700, "Cordovero"
<cordoveroremovexxx@yahooxxx.com > wrote:

>I'm totally with Alice on everything, particularly the part about
>ventilation. Basically, I found that the only way not to set off every
>smoke alarm around was to roast in the popcorn popper outside, which was
>weather dependent and a huge pain for me. Plus, the batches were far too
>small to have enough coffee for more than three days or so, let alone make
>gift batches at Hanukkah time.
>
>Anyway, for what it's worth, the I-Roast II prices have fallen through the
>floor lately. I just picked up my second one for $159 (free shipping and no
>tax) new etc. For me, that was very cost effective (since I can roast under
>the stove fan indoors, and the batches are roughly twice the size of my
>poppers) -- no colanders, cookie sheets, wooden spoons, and no poppers
>burning out every couple of months.

Well it keep costs down and see if I can put up wit the hassle of
doing it myself, a $10 pop corn popper would be fine. Anyway, I'm
just thinking about this aspect for now.


      
Date: 29 Apr 2007 16:32:34
From: Cordovero
Subject: Re: Espresso newbie help-- to the poiint

> Well it keep costs down and see if I can put up wit the hassle of
> doing it myself, a $10 pop corn popper would be fine. Anyway, I'm
> just thinking about this aspect for now.

It's a great way to learn, super cheap to start out, and I really enjoyed
the results! Just don't do it inside the house...

C




       
Date: 29 Apr 2007 19:27:23
From: Sophie
Subject: Re: Espresso newbie help-- to the poiint
On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 16:32:34 -0700, "Cordovero"
<cordoveroremovexxx@yahooxxx.com > wrote:

>
>> Well it keep costs down and see if I can put up wit the hassle of
>> doing it myself, a $10 pop corn popper would be fine. Anyway, I'm
>> just thinking about this aspect for now.
>
>It's a great way to learn, super cheap to start out, and I really enjoyed
>the results! Just don't do it inside the house...

Yeah, sure that landloard would let me :)


        
Date: 29 Apr 2007 19:35:42
From: Cordovero
Subject: Re: Espresso newbie help-- to the poiint
By the way, Sophie, if you have an outdoor barbeque (gas) grill, and you
enjoy roasting [it's awesome, and you save a ton of money], you can
eventually branch out into a "drum kit" to fit inside the barbeque. Most
folks say that drum roasting works better than air roasting anyway, and it's
also a do-it-yourself deal, and you can roast a lot at one time [which means
that you will soon be known as the friend who always gives incredible coffee
for Xmas gifts, birthdays, etc.]

C

"Sophie" <none@yours > wrote in message
news:nuda33licg1shl4qo62cr5o179nd540366@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 16:32:34 -0700, "Cordovero"
> <cordoveroremovexxx@yahooxxx.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>> Well it keep costs down and see if I can put up wit the hassle of
>>> doing it myself, a $10 pop corn popper would be fine. Anyway, I'm
>>> just thinking about this aspect for now.
>>
>>It's a great way to learn, super cheap to start out, and I really enjoyed
>>the results! Just don't do it inside the house...
>
> Yeah, sure that landloard would let me :)




         
Date: 29 Apr 2007 22:19:09
From: Sophie
Subject: Re: Espresso newbie help-- to the poiint
Don't own a gas grill, don't care for the propane taste it gives food.
Don't think I'd give any away :)


On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 19:35:42 -0700, "Cordovero"
<cordoveroremovexxx@yahooxxx.com > wrote:

>By the way, Sophie, if you have an outdoor barbeque (gas) grill, and you
>enjoy roasting [it's awesome, and you save a ton of money], you can
>eventually branch out into a "drum kit" to fit inside the barbeque. Most
>folks say that drum roasting works better than air roasting anyway, and it's
>also a do-it-yourself deal, and you can roast a lot at one time [which means
>that you will soon be known as the friend who always gives incredible coffee
>for Xmas gifts, birthdays, etc.]
>
>C
>
>"Sophie" <none@yours> wrote in message
>news:nuda33licg1shl4qo62cr5o179nd540366@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 16:32:34 -0700, "Cordovero"
>> <cordoveroremovexxx@yahooxxx.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>> Well it keep costs down and see if I can put up wit the hassle of
>>>> doing it myself, a $10 pop corn popper would be fine. Anyway, I'm
>>>> just thinking about this aspect for now.
>>>
>>>It's a great way to learn, super cheap to start out, and I really enjoyed
>>>the results! Just don't do it inside the house...
>>
>> Yeah, sure that landloard would let me :)
>


 
Date: 29 Apr 2007 07:14:48
From:
Subject: Re: Esspresso newbie help
On Apr 29, 5:00 am, Sophie <none@yours > wrote:

> Starbucks doesn't make good coffee IMHO. I want the stuff the
> Italians in Italy drink

If you really want the stuff italians drink at homes, its not
espresso, but a moka pot.
Italians have their espressos on the way to work and from work to home
at their local bar, usually standing up and sipping it right away.






  
Date: 29 Apr 2007 10:51:15
From: Sophie
Subject: Re: Esspresso newbie help
On 29 Apr 2007 07:14:48 -0700, y.avramov@gmail.com wrote:

>On Apr 29, 5:00 am, Sophie <none@yours> wrote:
>
>> Starbucks doesn't make good coffee IMHO. I want the stuff the
>> Italians in Italy drink
>
>If you really want the stuff italians drink at homes, its not
>espresso, but a moka pot.
>Italians have their espressos on the way to work and from work to home
>at their local bar, usually standing up and sipping it right away.


I didn't say drink at home :)


 
Date: 29 Apr 2007 07:12:44
From: Flasherly
Subject: Re: Esspresso newbie help
On Apr 28, 9:58 pm, Sophie <none@yours > wrote:
> On 28 Apr 2007 17:06:50 -0700, LF <fie...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Apr 28, 6:31 pm, Sophie <none@yours> wrote:
> >> Whats a good and CHEAP (use your discression) esspresso machine for
> >> someone that doesn't have a ton of cash on hand and hasn't used an
> >> esspresso machine before?
>
> >Sophie,
> >What's your goal? Double espressos, americanos, coffee based milk &
> >sugar drinks? A few drinks a day or entertaining crowds?
>
> Larry,
>
> Espresso / double espresso Itialian style, just with a little sugar.
> Just for myself

Italian style. Darker roasted beans and mixed within varieties. Also
means sugar is supported by substantial froth of brownish-red, crema
richly imbued as a precursor for what's to come. Ideally - crema also
being a property of the bean mix and (better) machine characteristics,
a desirable artifact, although not wholly within leeway granted for an
acceptable tasting cup. Oh, and Italians stick a cube of sugar in
their mouth before sucking an espresso through it.



  
Date: 29 Apr 2007 10:50:38
From: Sophie
Subject: Re: Esspresso newbie help
On 29 Apr 2007 07:12:44 -0700, Flasherly <gjerrell@ij.net > wrote:

>On Apr 28, 9:58 pm, Sophie <none@yours> wrote:
>> On 28 Apr 2007 17:06:50 -0700, LF <fie...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Apr 28, 6:31 pm, Sophie <none@yours> wrote:
>> >> Whats a good and CHEAP (use your discression) esspresso machine for
>> >> someone that doesn't have a ton of cash on hand and hasn't used an
>> >> esspresso machine before?
>>
>> >Sophie,
>> >What's your goal? Double espressos, americanos, coffee based milk &
>> >sugar drinks? A few drinks a day or entertaining crowds?
>>
>> Larry,
>>
>> Espresso / double espresso Itialian style, just with a little sugar.
>> Just for myself
>
>Italian style. Darker roasted beans and mixed within varieties. Also
>means sugar is supported by substantial froth of brownish-red, crema
>richly imbued as a precursor for what's to come. Ideally - crema also
>being a property of the bean mix and (better) machine characteristics,
>a desirable artifact, although not wholly within leeway granted for an
>acceptable tasting cup. Oh, and Italians stick a cube of sugar in
>their mouth before sucking an espresso through it.

When I had it in Italy, they use a medium roast not a heavier
"espresso" roast.


   
Date: 30 Apr 2007 01:25:49
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: Esspresso newbie help


 
Date: 28 Apr 2007 18:11:36
From: Flasherly
Subject: Re: Esspresso newbie help
On Apr 28, 6:31 pm, Sophie <none@yours > wrote:
> Whats a good and CHEAP (use your discression) esspresso machine for
> someone that doesn't have a ton of cash on hand and hasn't used an
> esspresso machine before?

Straight forward enough, and did indiscreetly say cheap. A $200
Delonghi BAR32 that yields a sustained after market at $60 on EBay.
These are refurbished units, so designated by commercial distribution
channels (two or three retailers on EBay) as meeting factory new
standards, or resolution will be provided to the customer's
satisfaction within a specified time. Credit card, and preferably a
card with leverage (one you don't mind getting tough with the card's
CS in a resolution event, i.e., refusing to pay until the seller makes
good). What that means is either replacement or repair of shipped
units is distinctly, (not unduly or apprehensively), a possibility. A
supply hose from the pump to the boiler may be cut, in so simple a
solution as cutting away the damaged area around the cut and
reattaching the hose.

The unit production taste is acceptable within qualifications. An
espresso drink of any volume is not an option to the BAR32 The PF is
small. The PF base is rugged plastic while upper body mass is
aluminum. Coffee contained and extracted directly through the heated
mass of a PF is a maligned process, apart from a superior construct of
the larger, heavier brass PF. As is some efficiency lost. Wasted,
perfectly good coffee in smaller amounts. A smaller area beneath the
dispersal screen limits efficiency to contact coffee by comparison to
better designed machines. A taste for the drink produced, however, is
accountable for not being maligned from agreeable source coffee beans,
or subsequent intent to mix milk froth.

Somewhat messy. Somewhat finicky to operate for an acceptable drink.
By in large, not considerations under the conditions of cheap. If not
one of the best "out-of-town" deals available, then a suitable
reference for contrast to any other viably marketed $50 espresso
machine, such as a Krups. A value not to be equated with some
proficiency that espresso "out-of-the-box" in any sense is insured.

However, if leeway you've granted for discretionary limits are not
limited to under $200, $400, or $800US, ignore all the above as
impertinent to an acceptable range of further options. Also, be more
specific if so.



 
Date: 28 Apr 2007 17:54:57
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Esspresso newbie help
On Apr 28, 3:31 pm, Sophie <none@yours > wrote:
> Whats a good and CHEAP (use your discression) esspresso machine for
> someone that doesn't have a ton of cash on hand and hasn't used an
> esspresso machine before?

You are getting a lot of good advice. I would start by saying you
should read though my website as I document what you are currently
facing- the purchase of my first espresso machine. I shopped carefully
and 6.5 years later it is still my primary machine, being in use
nearly every day during that time. The savings on a lesser machine is
quickly forgotten if it creates a month's frustration and then spends
the rest of its life on a shelf in the garage.

You really need to begin with a set budget. Just like shopping for a
car, you can keep stepping up in financial increments until you on a
car that is more expensive than your house, or an espresso machine
that is more expensive than your car. ALso consider the use. it is
just for home and not entertaining then a single boiler machine (like
a Gaggia Coffee et.al. or the Silvia) will suffice. if you want to
leave it on all day, have more then a few coffee drinkers in the
house,or want to use it for entertaining groups, then a heat exchanger
machine is a good choice (they start at About $700-800 I think).

And although it sounds backwards, start with the grinder. A high
quality grinder will serve you for many years and can bring out the
best in an espresso machine (or any coffee making method) . The best
of espresso machines will make drek using a cheap grinder. Figure
about $200-250 and up for a great grinder... ya, that is a lot,and if
it bites too had into the budget then add a more affordable method of
making coffee such as a pres pot, moka pot or even an AeroPress.

Finally, take a look at the articles and reviews at www.coffeegeek.com
There you will find reviews from folks who own and use various
machines and can get a idea of what might work best for you.

Randy "BTDT" G.
www.espressomyespresso.com



 
Date: 29 Apr 2007 00:28:57
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Esspresso newbie help
Howdy Sophie!
CHEAP is relative. For starters take a look at my page:
www.tinyurl.com/2tnv87 - Guidelines for newbies. A budget of $300 will get
you a used Gaggia Espresso & MDF grinder combo on eBay. You'll have enough
left over for a S/S pitcher & thermometer for steaming milk for cappuccinos,
a couple of shot glasses, and a few other odds & ends. That's about the
minimum budget for someone just starting out in this hobby.

You've come to the right place to get help. If you haven't already done so,
also check out www.coffeegeek.com for tips & assistance in your quest.
--
Robert (Gig 'em!) Harmon
www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj - My coffee pages
www.tinyurl.com/37gwfr - I may have stuff available for sale here.

"Sophie" <none@yours > wrote in message
news:nni733hdfgr41pv3rc6ka3mkf1t7oa6172@4ax.com...
> Whats a good and CHEAP (use your discression) esspresso machine for
> someone that doesn't have a ton of cash on hand and hasn't used an
> esspresso machine before?




 
Date: 28 Apr 2007 17:06:50
From: LF
Subject: Re: Esspresso newbie help
On Apr 28, 6:31 pm, Sophie <none@yours > wrote:
> Whats a good and CHEAP (use your discression) esspresso machine for
> someone that doesn't have a ton of cash on hand and hasn't used an
> esspresso machine before?

Sophie,
What's your goal? Double espressos, americanos, coffee based milk &
sugar drinks? A few drinks a day or entertaining crowds?

Regards,
Larry



  
Date: 28 Apr 2007 20:58:53
From: Sophie
Subject: Re: Esspresso newbie help
On 28 Apr 2007 17:06:50 -0700, LF <fieman@gmail.com > wrote:

>On Apr 28, 6:31 pm, Sophie <none@yours> wrote:
>> Whats a good and CHEAP (use your discression) esspresso machine for
>> someone that doesn't have a ton of cash on hand and hasn't used an
>> esspresso machine before?
>
>Sophie,
>What's your goal? Double espressos, americanos, coffee based milk &
>sugar drinks? A few drinks a day or entertaining crowds?

Larry,

Espresso / double espresso Itialian style, just with a little sugar.
Just for myself


 
Date: 28 Apr 2007 23:56:55
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: Esspresso newbie help
On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 17:31:32 -0500, Sophie <none@yours > wrote:

>Whats a good and CHEAP (use your discression) esspresso machine for
>someone that doesn't have a ton of cash on hand and hasn't used an
>esspresso machine before?


find a used krups novo compact. if you can find one, it ought to be
under $100. spend as much money on a grinder as you can possibly
afford, and the novo compact combined with a decent grinder should
yield yummy results.



 
Date: 28 Apr 2007 22:37:23
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Esspresso newbie help
On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 17:31:32 -0500, Sophie <none@yours > wrote:

>Whats a good and CHEAP (use your discression) esspresso machine for
>someone that doesn't have a ton of cash on hand and hasn't used an
>esspresso machine before?

There is no good cheap espresso machine, especially when you consider
most consumers who are looking for one plan to spend little or nothing
on a grinder (which is more important than the espresso machine).

Google the alt.coffee archives for "cheap espresso machine," and see
what you find. If you are handy with tools, consider the caveat emptor
world of used machines on Ebay.

Marshall


  
Date: 28 Apr 2007 18:05:28
From: Sophie
Subject: Re: Esspresso newbie help
On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 22:37:23 GMT, Marshall
<mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote:

>On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 17:31:32 -0500, Sophie <none@yours> wrote:
>
>>Whats a good and CHEAP (use your discression) esspresso machine for
>>someone that doesn't have a ton of cash on hand and hasn't used an
>>esspresso machine before?
>
>There is no good cheap espresso machine, especially when you consider
>most consumers who are looking for one plan to spend little or nothing
>on a grinder (which is more important than the espresso machine).

Cheap is always relative. But I don't want to look at $1000 machines
either.


   
Date: 28 Apr 2007 20:17:34
From: Moka Java
Subject: Re: Esspresso newbie help
Sophie wrote:

> On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 22:37:23 GMT, Marshall
> <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>>On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 17:31:32 -0500, Sophie <none@yours> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Whats a good and CHEAP (use your discression) esspresso machine for
>>>someone that doesn't have a ton of cash on hand and hasn't used an
>>>esspresso machine before?
>>
>>There is no good cheap espresso machine, especially when you consider
>>most consumers who are looking for one plan to spend little or nothing
>>on a grinder (which is more important than the espresso machine).
>
>
> Cheap is always relative. But I don't want to look at $1000 machines
> either.

What are your goals? Do you want to make straight espresso shots that
rival those from the best cafes in the world? Or are you hoping to make
a reasonable facsimile of a Starbucks latte? If you want to make top
quality straight espresso there really is no cheap way out in a new
machine. If you want to make a decent tasting latte beverage a press
pot, hand grinder and milk frother will cost you less than $100.

R "shiny counter top decorations come at a premium" TF


    
Date: 28 Apr 2007 21:00:10
From: Sophie
Subject: Re: Esspresso newbie help
On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 20:17:34 -0400, Moka Java
<rtwatches@fishyahoo.com > wrote:

>Sophie wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 22:37:23 GMT, Marshall
>> <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 17:31:32 -0500, Sophie <none@yours> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Whats a good and CHEAP (use your discression) esspresso machine for
>>>>someone that doesn't have a ton of cash on hand and hasn't used an
>>>>esspresso machine before?
>>>
>>>There is no good cheap espresso machine, especially when you consider
>>>most consumers who are looking for one plan to spend little or nothing
>>>on a grinder (which is more important than the espresso machine).
>>
>>
>> Cheap is always relative. But I don't want to look at $1000 machines
>> either.
>
>What are your goals? Do you want to make straight espresso shots that
>rival those from the best cafes in the world? Or are you hoping to make
>a reasonable facsimile of a Starbucks latte? If you want to make top
>quality straight espresso there really is no cheap way out in a new
>machine. If you want to make a decent tasting latte beverage a press
>pot, hand grinder and milk frother will cost you less than $100.

Starbucks doesn't make good coffee IMHO. I want the stuff the
Italians in Italy drink.


     
Date: 29 Apr 2007 13:58:31
From: Natalie Drest
Subject: Re: Esspresso newbie help

"Sophie" <none@yours > wrote in message
news:ovu733tk3bhensnmslud60ik9dtao7l3ic@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 20:17:34 -0400, Moka Java
> <rtwatches@fishyahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Sophie wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 22:37:23 GMT, Marshall
>>> <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 17:31:32 -0500, Sophie <none@yours> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Whats a good and CHEAP (use your discression) esspresso machine for
>>>>>someone that doesn't have a ton of cash on hand and hasn't used an
>>>>>esspresso machine before?
>>>>
>>>>There is no good cheap espresso machine, especially when you consider
>>>>most consumers who are looking for one plan to spend little or nothing
>>>>on a grinder (which is more important than the espresso machine).
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheap is always relative. But I don't want to look at $1000 machines
>>> either.
>>
>>What are your goals? Do you want to make straight espresso shots that
>>rival those from the best cafes in the world? Or are you hoping to make
>>a reasonable facsimile of a Starbucks latte? If you want to make top
>>quality straight espresso there really is no cheap way out in a new
>>machine. If you want to make a decent tasting latte beverage a press
>>pot, hand grinder and milk frother will cost you less than $100.
>
> Starbucks doesn't make good coffee IMHO. I want the stuff the
> Italians in Italy drink.

Gaggia Evolution from Ebay, if you don't mind unscrewing a few bits to give
it a really good clean (it'll be unlikely to have been properly cared for).
Will most likely need a descale as well- google this group for citric acid
for basic how-to. Easy-peasy to do. I've paid between $50 & $80 here in
Australia- not bad for a $400 machine. Otherwise find a closeout special on
a new Evolution, probably again from Ebay. Some of the other Gaggias have
cheap alloy group handles (don't hold the heat), the Evolution seems best
value for money i.e. it sells for cheapest of the reasonable quality
Gaggias.

But you will need a good grinder. Where on earth are you?




      
Date: 29 Apr 2007 08:48:36
From: Sophie
Subject: Re: Esspresso newbie help
On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 13:58:31 +1000, "Natalie Drest"
<fugeddaboudit@notarealemailaddress.net > wrote:

>
>"Sophie" <none@yours> wrote in message
>news:ovu733tk3bhensnmslud60ik9dtao7l3ic@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 20:17:34 -0400, Moka Java
>> <rtwatches@fishyahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Sophie wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 22:37:23 GMT, Marshall
>>>> <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 17:31:32 -0500, Sophie <none@yours> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Whats a good and CHEAP (use your discression) esspresso machine for
>>>>>>someone that doesn't have a ton of cash on hand and hasn't used an
>>>>>>esspresso machine before?
>>>>>
>>>>>There is no good cheap espresso machine, especially when you consider
>>>>>most consumers who are looking for one plan to spend little or nothing
>>>>>on a grinder (which is more important than the espresso machine).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cheap is always relative. But I don't want to look at $1000 machines
>>>> either.
>>>
>>>What are your goals? Do you want to make straight espresso shots that
>>>rival those from the best cafes in the world? Or are you hoping to make
>>>a reasonable facsimile of a Starbucks latte? If you want to make top
>>>quality straight espresso there really is no cheap way out in a new
>>>machine. If you want to make a decent tasting latte beverage a press
>>>pot, hand grinder and milk frother will cost you less than $100.
>>
>> Starbucks doesn't make good coffee IMHO. I want the stuff the
>> Italians in Italy drink.
>
>Gaggia Evolution from Ebay, if you don't mind unscrewing a few bits to give
>it a really good clean (it'll be unlikely to have been properly cared for).
>Will most likely need a descale as well- google this group for citric acid
>for basic how-to. Easy-peasy to do. I've paid between $50 & $80 here in
>Australia- not bad for a $400 machine. Otherwise find a closeout special on
>a new Evolution, probably again from Ebay. Some of the other Gaggias have
>cheap alloy group handles (don't hold the heat), the Evolution seems best
>value for money i.e. it sells for cheapest of the reasonable quality
>Gaggias.
>
>But you will need a good grinder. Where on earth are you?

Thanks for the advice. I am in Wisconsin (USA) on Earth :)


   
Date: 28 Apr 2007 23:33:06
From: tckroll
Subject: Re: Esspresso newbie help
Sophie wrote:

> Cheap is always relative. But I don't want to look at $1000 machines
> either.

I would suggest that you will greatly improve your chance of getting
quality assistance from the group by stating your budget for espresso
machine and grinder combined.

terry