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Date: 25 Nov 2006 15:21:29
From: Frank103
Subject: Extended Warranty or Cash?-You Decide
How important is it to have a 1 year extended warranty?

You can buy a Rancilio Silvia at WholeLatteLove.com or 1stincoffee.com for
$495US. For $495, you get a bonus of a 1 year extended warranty and a brush
& cleaning packets or whatever. If you go to Chriscoffee.com, a Silvia with
a 1 year standard warranty and no bonus cost $445. Which would you choose?

The Silvia/Rocky (doserless) package at WLL and 1st Coffee costs $780 with a
bonus of a 1 year extended warranty, a stainless steel, 2-drawer stand for
the S&R, and the brush etc. Chris' Coffee sells the R/S package with the
standard warranty and no bonus for $705. Which would you choose?

Last week I decided to buy the R/S package from Chris' Coffee for $705 and
put the $75 I saved toward an I-Roast. Will that turn out to be the right
decision? Who knows? But this I do know. If you are going to pay $495 for a
Silvia, make sure your bonus is more than just 8oz. of coffee, which is what
some sellers give; and some sellers don't even give you that! If you are
going to pay $495, or even $475, for a Silvia, I feel you are foolish if you
don't get at least a 1 year extended warranty. Just my opinion.

PS Had the Silvia for 4 days. Still learning and loving every minute of it.







 
Date: 26 Nov 2006 14:03:13
From: daveb
Subject: Re: HX and silvia?????
Making a STOCK cheap (or expensive ) HX machine deliver great shots
and perform realiably in the long term -- is FAR and away MORE
difficult than uesing a stock or 'pid' silvia.

OOPS, I've said it again!

Dave
167.5

www.hitechespresso.com



 
Date: 25 Nov 2006 19:12:21
From: daveb
Subject: Extended Warranty = pass!
Another FULL YEAR WARRANTEE on a silvia??

a solution in search of a problem.

glad you passed on that!

Dave
167 pid silvias



 
Date: 25 Nov 2006 17:26:16
From: Flasherly
Subject: Re: Extended Warranty or Cash?-You Decide
Frank103 wrote:
> You can buy a Rancilio Silvia at WholeLatteLove.com or 1stincoffee.com for
> $495US. For $495, you get a bonus of a 1 year extended warranty and a brush
> & cleaning packets or whatever. If you go to Chriscoffee.com, a Silvia with
> a 1 year standard warranty and no bonus cost $445. Which would you choose?

That'll nicely do FEDEX on 4 Cooper Trendsetter SE P215/75R15 All
Season Passenger.

http://www.mavistire.com/ProductCart/pc/_shopbysize.asp

Warranty would fit into a Ship to My Home Quote. Though after
mentioning them to a friend, he nagged me about a warranty, which I
didn't push - being he also prefers a warranty on everything - so it's
not going to matter if it's the modus operandi of general principles to
him. (Tireguy down the street I called them in on for competetive
pricing simply told me, oh'kay... do whatever floats your boat). I
don't see it as a fault - not everybody is going to be keen on the
personal involvement aspect. I suspect he probably sees product quality
before intended purpose vrs usage - though no matter, if it isn't with
warranty, for him, forget it. People want and get quality assurances
in servicing a valid part of doing business these days. Got one of
those creditcards that when used on purchases kicks in to double a
product waranty?



 
Date: 25 Nov 2006 17:05:05
From: Ken Fox
Subject: Re: Extended Warranty or Cash?-You Decide
"Frank103" <frank103@cox.net > wrote in message
news:0e4ah.9931$jH3.9338@newsfe14.lga...
> How important is it to have a 1 year extended warranty?
>
> You can buy a Rancilio Silvia at WholeLatteLove.com or 1stincoffee.com for
> $495US. For $495, you get a bonus of a 1 year extended warranty and a
> brush & cleaning packets or whatever. If you go to Chriscoffee.com, a
> Silvia with a 1 year standard warranty and no bonus cost $445. Which would
> you choose?
>
> The Silvia/Rocky (doserless) package at WLL and 1st Coffee costs $780 with
> a bonus of a 1 year extended warranty, a stainless steel, 2-drawer stand
> for the S&R, and the brush etc. Chris' Coffee sells the R/S package with
> the standard warranty and no bonus for $705. Which would you choose?
>
> Last week I decided to buy the R/S package from Chris' Coffee for $705 and
> put the $75 I saved toward an I-Roast. Will that turn out to be the right
> decision? Who knows? But this I do know. If you are going to pay $495 for
> a Silvia, make sure your bonus is more than just 8oz. of coffee, which is
> what some sellers give; and some sellers don't even give you that! If you
> are going to pay $495, or even $475, for a Silvia, I feel you are foolish
> if you don't get at least a 1 year extended warranty. Just my opinion.
>
> PS Had the Silvia for 4 days. Still learning and loving every minute of
> it.
>

Rancilio does not allow their dealers to advertise their espresso machines
and grinders at a price point below their "minimum advertised" price. Most
of the good online dealers of this Rancilio equipment will negotiate prices
if you call them and raise the issue. Chris and probably some of the
others put exactly that on their website listings of Silvias and Rocky's.

When you get up to the level of a Silvia and above, unless you live in a
major metropolitan area with a good dealer, you are going to have to work on
the machine yourself because it simply is not cost effective to be shipping
these things across the country for what amounts to simple replacements of
the parts that need frequent replacing. Fortunately, most of these machines
are fairly easy to work on, and there are online tutorias covering the
replacement of such things as pressurestats and vibratory pumps. Failing
that, a simple question posed in a ng such as this as to how one might
replace XXX part in a Silvia is apt to get you more responses than you will
care to read. The parts in question are stocked by numerous online sources.

In my opinion, a 2 year warranty on a Silvia would be worth at most, $25
extra to me vs. a 1 year warranty.

ken




 
Date: 25 Nov 2006 23:51:05
From: Alan
Subject: Re: Extended Warranty or Cash?-You Decide

"Frank103" <frank103@cox.net > wrote in message
news:0e4ah.9931$jH3.9338@newsfe14.lga...
> How important is it to have a 1 year extended warranty?
>
> You can buy a Rancilio Silvia at WholeLatteLove.com or 1stincoffee.com for
> $495US. For $495, you get a bonus of a 1 year extended warranty and a
> brush & cleaning packets or whatever. If you go to Chriscoffee.com, a
> Silvia with a 1 year standard warranty and no bonus cost $445. Which would
> you choose?
>
> The Silvia/Rocky (doserless) package at WLL and 1st Coffee costs $780 with
> a bonus of a 1 year extended warranty, a stainless steel, 2-drawer stand
> for the S&R, and the brush etc. Chris' Coffee sells the R/S package with
> the standard warranty and no bonus for $705. Which would you choose?
>
> Last week I decided to buy the R/S package from Chris' Coffee for $705 and
> put the $75 I saved toward an I-Roast. Will that turn out to be the right
> decision? Who knows? But this I do know. If you are going to pay $495 for
> a Silvia, make sure your bonus is more than just 8oz. of coffee, which is
> what some sellers give; and some sellers don't even give you that! If you
> are going to pay $495, or even $475, for a Silvia, I feel you are foolish
> if you don't get at least a 1 year extended warranty. Just my opinion.
>
> PS Had the Silvia for 4 days. Still learning and loving every minute of
> it.

I'd say that given the number of posts I've seen relating to problems with
Silvias, that unless you're a bit of a technician yourself, you've made a
wise decision going for the longer warranty.
The question now, of course, is whether or not you're going to be tempted to
retrofit your Silvia with a PID in order to get it to work properly, and run
the risk of voiding your warranties . . .




  
Date: 26 Nov 2006 11:07:17
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Extended Warranty or Cash?-You Decide
"Alan" <in_flagrante@hotmail.com > wrote:

>
>"Frank103" <frank103@cox.net> wrote in message
>news:0e4ah.9931$jH3.9338@newsfe14.lga...
>> How important is it to have a 1 year extended warranty?
>
>I'd say that given the number of posts I've seen relating to problems with
>Silvias, that unless you're a bit of a technician yourself, you've made a
>wise decision going for the longer warranty.
>The question now, of course, is whether or not you're going to be tempted to
>retrofit your Silvia with a PID in order to get it to work properly, and run
>the risk of voiding your warranties . . .
>

I would say that an extended warranty for Silvia is a waste of money.
Silvia is a highly dependable machine with an excellent track record,
and if something does go wrong out of warranty it is very easily
diagnosed and repaired by anyone with the knowledge of how to use an
ohm meter and the most basic of hand tools (screwdrivers, pliers,
adjustable wrench, and hex wrench). And if you are no handy that way
someone you know probably is. The internal layout of the machine and
it's overall design make it very easy to work on. it was one of the
major factors that helped me to decide to get one back at the end of
2000.

The various repair topics discussed here in regards to Silvia are
common among all espresso machines- failed thermostats being number
one I would think, and after that it is all a mater of maintenance
found with all machines- an occasional brewhead gasket and such.

The only factor that would explain why there are "so many" posts here
regarding repairing Silvia is that there are so many in use and that
the level of commitment by the alt.coffee participants creates an high
percentage of users here owning the machine. it is also a machine
purchased by folks committed to good espresso and so it gets used a
lot- not placed on a shelf after the first three bitter pulls..

And in that 7 years of use, my only repairs have been:
- a failed brew thermostat that was replaced with a PID
- replaced the brewhead gasket two or three times IIRC.
- rebuilt the steam valve once (4 O rings and a cock gasket)
- replaced shower screen once

So what is that? About $35 in parts in 7 years. That's well over 5,000
double shots of espresso... maybe closer to 6,000. That's about 230
pounds of coffee.. No wonder I type so much! ;-)

If it doesn't go bad in the first year it will probably be fine other
than the sort of maintenance mentioned above. Also, there are some
credit cards which will double the original warranty, up to an
additional year, on new items, so really, you can get the added year
free if you do some research.

Randy "BTDT got the T-shirt- HECK! I WROTE the T-shirt!" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com




  
Date: 26 Nov 2006 00:15:07
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Extended Warranty or Cash?-You Decide
"Alan" <in_flagrante@hotmail.com > wrote in
news:JF4ah.15706$9v5.9856@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net:
>
> I'd say that given the number of posts I've seen relating to problems
> with Silvias, that unless you're a bit of a technician yourself,
> you've made a wise decision going for the longer warranty.
> The question now, of course, is whether or not you're going to be
> tempted to retrofit your Silvia with a PID in order to get it to work
> properly, and run the risk of voiding your warranties . . .
>
>

Whoa Allen, what's with the scare tactics?
1) If you can change a light switch you have all the technical knowledge
needed to maintain any semi-auto espresso machine.

2) The Silvia works just fine right out of the box. It does all it was
designed to do & can provide one with great espresso.

3) There is nothing in a PID install that would void a warranty & it's all
quickly removed if you need to send it in for warranty work anyway.


Robert (It's all good!) Harmon
--
http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
Remove "Z" to reply via email.


   
Date: 26 Nov 2006 01:40:29
From: Alan
Subject: Re: Extended Warranty or Cash?-You Decide

"Robert Harmon" wrote
> "Alan" wrote
>>
>> I'd say that given the number of posts I've seen relating to problems
>> with Silvias, that unless you're a bit of a technician yourself,
>> you've made a wise decision going for the longer warranty.
>> The question now, of course, is whether or not you're going to be
>> tempted to retrofit your Silvia with a PID in order to get it to work
>> properly, and run the risk of voiding your warranties . . .
>>
>>
>
> Whoa Allen, what's with the scare tactics?
> 1) If you can change a light switch you have all the technical knowledge
> needed to maintain any semi-auto espresso machine.

I'm not trying to scare anyone --- just going by posts that I've
read regarding Silvia repairs.
Take, for example, your own advice to a poster whose Silvia had
steaming problems: "Check the continuity of the steam thermostat with a
multimeter".
While most of us would be able to fish a screwdriver out of the
kitchen drawer and change a light switch (probably even a 3-way), I
seriously doubt that many of us would have a "multimeter" laying around and
would even be able to identify the steam thermostat.
There's a bit more going on inside a Silvia than there is behind a
light switch wall plate. To pretend otherwise is quite misleading.


> 2) The Silvia works just fine right out of the box. It does all it was
> designed to do & can provide one with great espresso.

I know I'm opening a can of worms when I bring this up, but just for the
sake of discussion, if a Silvia "works just fine" and provides one with
"great expresso", why do so many people here seem convinced that they have
to retrofit their Silvias with a PID?




    
Date: 26 Nov 2006 22:46:02
From: Brian Colwell
Subject: Re: Extended Warranty or Cash?-You Decide

"Alan" <in_flagrante@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:hg6ah.319$Py2.278@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...
>
> "Robert Harmon" wrote
>> "Alan" wrote
>>>
>>> I'd say that given the number of posts I've seen relating to problems
>>> with Silvias, that unless you're a bit of a technician yourself,
>>> you've made a wise decision going for the longer warranty.
>>> The question now, of course, is whether or not you're going to be
>>> tempted to retrofit your Silvia with a PID in order to get it to work
>>> properly, and run the risk of voiding your warranties . . .
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Whoa Allen, what's with the scare tactics?
>> 1) If you can change a light switch you have all the technical knowledge
>> needed to maintain any semi-auto espresso machine.
>
> I'm not trying to scare anyone --- just going by posts that I've
> read regarding Silvia repairs.
> Take, for example, your own advice to a poster whose Silvia had
> steaming problems: "Check the continuity of the steam thermostat with a
> multimeter".
> While most of us would be able to fish a screwdriver out of the
> kitchen drawer and change a light switch (probably even a 3-way), I
> seriously doubt that many of us would have a "multimeter" laying around
> and would even be able to identify the steam thermostat.
> There's a bit more going on inside a Silvia than there is behind a
> light switch wall plate. To pretend otherwise is quite misleading.
>
>
>> 2) The Silvia works just fine right out of the box. It does all it was
>> designed to do & can provide one with great espresso.
>
> I know I'm opening a can of worms when I bring this up, but just for the
> sake of discussion, if a Silvia "works just fine" and provides one with
> "great expresso", why do so many people here seem convinced that they have
> to retrofit their Silvias with a PID?
>
Actually, you don't have to ! :-))

BMC




    
Date: 25 Nov 2006 20:05:58
From: Ken Fox
Subject: Re: Extended Warranty or Cash?-You Decide
"Alan" <in_flagrante@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:hg6ah.319$Py2.278@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...
>
> I'm not trying to scare anyone --- just going by posts that I've
> read regarding Silvia repairs.
> Take, for example, your own advice to a poster whose Silvia had
> steaming problems: "Check the continuity of the steam thermostat with a
> multimeter".
> While most of us would be able to fish a screwdriver out of the
> kitchen drawer and change a light switch (probably even a 3-way), I
> seriously doubt that many of us would have a "multimeter" laying around
> and would even be able to identify the steam thermostat.
> There's a bit more going on inside a Silvia than there is behind a
> light switch wall plate. To pretend otherwise is quite misleading.

there are a zillion silvias out there among ng participants. The percentage
of problems is impossible to know since you don't know the "N" in the
equation. Concluding that it is a troublesome machine based upon posts you
read here would have the same validity as believing that Walt sells more
problematic merchandise than anyone else because they get more returns,
without considering the fact that they also SELL a lot more merchandise than
anyone else.

If you exercise reasonable care, such as using boiler safe water (water that
won't scale, i.e. is not too hard), not letting the machine run dry, keeping
it clean and maintained, I doubt you will have any significant problems for
many years.


>
>
>> 2) The Silvia works just fine right out of the box. It does all it was
>> designed to do & can provide one with great espresso.
>
> I know I'm opening a can of worms when I bring this up, but just for the
> sake of discussion, if a Silvia "works just fine" and provides one with
> "great expresso", why do so many people here seem convinced that they have
> to retrofit their Silvias with a PID?


You need to use google groups' alt.coffee search function. This topic has
been beaten to death more times than anyone here can remember:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.coffee?hl=en

Put in your search terms such as "PID" and "silvia" in the upper right box
so as to search only this ng.

ken
p.s. for anyone reading this who has not already bought a Silvia, after you
consider the cost and effort of PIDing this machine, it may no longer be a
very cost effective choice, especially if you consume a lot of milk drinks.
Have a look at some of the cheaper HX and single boiler e-61 machines; the
Silvia is no longer so much cheaper than that class of machine (owing to
price increases on the Silvia) so don't just blindly buy one because you see
the word "Silvia" in every other post on this board.





     
Date: 26 Nov 2006 17:55:19
From: Alan
Subject: Re: Extended Warranty or Cash?-You Decide

"Ken Fox" <morceaudemerdeThisMerdeGoes@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:4ssehbF11fa30U1@mid.individual.net...
> "Alan" <in_flagrante@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:hg6ah.319$Py2.278@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...
>>
>> I'm not trying to scare anyone --- just going by posts that I've
>> read regarding Silvia repairs.
>> Take, for example, your own advice to a poster whose Silvia had
>> steaming problems: "Check the continuity of the steam thermostat with a
>> multimeter".
>> While most of us would be able to fish a screwdriver out of the
>> kitchen drawer and change a light switch (probably even a 3-way), I
>> seriously doubt that many of us would have a "multimeter" laying around
>> and would even be able to identify the steam thermostat.
>> There's a bit more going on inside a Silvia than there is behind a
>> light switch wall plate. To pretend otherwise is quite misleading.
>
> there are a zillion silvias out there among ng participants. The
> percentage of problems is impossible to know since you don't know the "N"
> in the equation. Concluding that it is a troublesome machine based upon
> posts you read here would have the same validity as believing that Walt
> sells more problematic merchandise than anyone else because they get more
> returns, without considering the fact that they also SELL a lot more
> merchandise than anyone else.
>
> If you exercise reasonable care, such as using boiler safe water (water
> that won't scale, i.e. is not too hard), not letting the machine run dry,
> keeping it clean and maintained, I doubt you will have any significant
> problems for many years.

And I thoroughly agree with you --- the zillion or so owners of trouble-free
Silvias wouldn't be as motivated to post announcements of their satisfactory
experiences. A valid assessment of Silvia's reliability therefore cannot be
reasonably drawn from the frequency of negative posts.

What I did have a problem with, however, was the poster who had blithely
suggested that the skill levels necessary for changing a light switch were
sufficient for making repairs to the Silvia . . .