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Date: 24 Nov 2006 16:41:33
From:
Subject: First espresso machine
Hi,
I've finally tired of "espressos" being done on the stovetop and have
decided to graduate to an honest-to-goodness (consumer) espresso
machine ... now what? my girlfriend has her heart set on a
FrancisFrancis! (prefereably the X1) or, perhaps as an alternative, an
Expressione Retro, VillaWare Moderno Prima or an Ascaso Dream. All very
beautiful, but I'm really just looking for something that's going to
provide me a with reliably excellent espresso in the morning ...
afternoon, probably the evening, as well. Looking for something between
$400-$800 (only because of the X1). Any thoughts and/or suggestions
would be welcome (and, based on posts here, I will be buying a burr
grinder, as well).

Thanks in advance,

Doug





 
Date: 27 Nov 2006 18:36:15
From: Flasherly
Subject: Re: First espresso machine

Cordovero wrote:
> ...Gaggia Baby giving me great product, I got upgrade-itis from seeing the
> "gloopy" syrupy espresso from heated-grouphead machines (rather than the
> "mousetails" from single boiler machines like Silvia, Gaggia, and Francis
> Francis), and upgraded to a used Expobar Office and then sold that and
> bought a used ECM Giotto.

Struck me as technician's machine, also an interesting take on
grouphead capabilities. I don't doubt others may pull it off with
machines a third less, though I'd doubt as easily.



  
Date: 27 Nov 2006 19:26:07
From: Cordovero
Subject: Re: First espresso machine
Yes: some folks here might get the "gloopy, syrupy" pours from a Silvia or
Gaggia, but I only got mousetails. The E61's give me gloopy.

C

"Flasherly" <gjerrell@ij.net > wrote in message
news:1164681374.961617.242490@45g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
>
> Cordovero wrote:
>> ...Gaggia Baby giving me great product, I got upgrade-itis from seeing
>> the
>> "gloopy" syrupy espresso from heated-grouphead machines (rather than the
>> "mousetails" from single boiler machines like Silvia, Gaggia, and Francis
>> Francis), and upgraded to a used Expobar Office and then sold that and
>> bought a used ECM Giotto.
>
> Struck me as technician's machine, also an interesting take on
> grouphead capabilities. I don't doubt others may pull it off with
> machines a third less, though I'd doubt as easily.
>




 
Date: 25 Nov 2006 18:01:45
From: Cordovero
Subject: Re: First espresso machine
If you read enough of our stories, you will see a common thread. I'll just
give you mine. Started out with a DeLonghi Cafe Treviso (with a boiler and
a pump) and got all excited. Then I realized most of the flavor was coming
from the joys of steamed milk, and I realized I was getting no crema. Moved
on to an open box Gaggia Baby from Ebay, which had a cracked boiler, but
managed to get fixed in warranty -- just cost me three months of no machine.
Bought a Rancilio Rocky so I could finally get some crema, and that was
awesome, but then sold it and got a used Mazzer Mini. Once I finally had my
Gaggia Baby giving me great product, I got upgrade-itis from seeing the
"gloopy" syrupy espresso from heated-grouphead machines (rather than the
"mousetails" from single boiler machines like Silvia, Gaggia, and Francis
Francis), and upgraded to a used Expobar Office and then sold that and
bought a used ECM Giotto.

I did all of this on a tiny budget, but had lots of patience as I had the
Giotto refurbishes and upgraded as it was leaking at time of purchase.

The moral of the story? If you have any money, skip all the money-pinching
and consider this like a REFRIGERATOR purchase. You can start with a dorm
frig and then work your way up, or you can just buy the fridge that is
actually quiet and has the features you want and pay the money now and enjoy
it.

So, what REALLY is your budget for a grinder and machine? If you want to
impress your girlfriend, get the grinder Ian has. Ian, if you're reading,
remind us what you have. I think it's a Macap doserless. It blows away my
Mazzer for beauty. Just start with that. Order it from chriscoffee and get
the stepless doserless in nice shiny chrome. I could stare at it for a
week.

Then tell us how much money you have left. At this point, it doesn't matter
what you buy, because whatever you get, you'll upgrade later and but you
WON'T NEED TO UPGRADE the grinder! You have no idea how prophetic my advice
is until the day comes.

Personally, I'd just spring from a real machine now, probably something from
Chriscoffee like an Anita. If three hundred dollars makes a difference,
then buy a Bezzera Pour Over. Search Amazon from B0006SG69U and it'll pop
up, but it sells for around 700 at other places. It'll blow the skivvies
off of a Francis Francis. Ask your gf whether she thinks it's pretty
enough. Also "show her around" Chriscoffee's website.

C
<dsery@mit.edu > wrote in message
news:1164415293.342814.312320@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Hi,
> I've finally tired of "espressos" being done on the stovetop and have
> decided to graduate to an honest-to-goodness (consumer) espresso
> machine ... now what? my girlfriend has her heart set on a
> FrancisFrancis! (prefereably the X1) or, perhaps as an alternative, an
> Expressione Retro, VillaWare Moderno Prima or an Ascaso Dream. All very
> beautiful, but I'm really just looking for something that's going to
> provide me a with reliably excellent espresso in the morning ...
> afternoon, probably the evening, as well. Looking for something between
> $400-$800 (only because of the X1). Any thoughts and/or suggestions
> would be welcome (and, based on posts here, I will be buying a burr
> grinder, as well).
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Doug
>




  
Date: 25 Nov 2006 20:20:18
From: Cordovero
Subject: Re: First espresso machine
http://www.1st-line.com/machines/home_mod/bezzera/BezzeraBZ02Sespressomachines.htm




 
Date: 25 Nov 2006 13:45:39
From: Harry Moos
Subject: Re: First espresso machine
The sheer number of FrancisFrancis machines on e-Bay for resale [often with
bids] should tell you something about its reputation. Unless "cute" is what
you are after, avoid it. With your budget, the Gaggia Classic/MDF grinder
or the Rancilio Silvia/Rocky grinder should be a good starting point. I
opted for the Silvia recently, but I can't really say the espresso is any
better than I got from the Gaggia Coffee. I was advised against any HX
machine because I only make espresso for myself and I don't make milk
drinks.

<dsery@mit.edu > wrote in message
news:1164415293.342814.312320@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Hi,
> I've finally tired of "espressos" being done on the stovetop and have
> decided to graduate to an honest-to-goodness (consumer) espresso
> machine ... now what? my girlfriend has her heart set on a
> FrancisFrancis! (prefereably the X1) or, perhaps as an alternative, an
> Expressione Retro, VillaWare Moderno Prima or an Ascaso Dream. All very
> beautiful, but I'm really just looking for something that's going to
> provide me a with reliably excellent espresso in the morning ...
> afternoon, probably the evening, as well. Looking for something between
> $400-$800 (only because of the X1). Any thoughts and/or suggestions
> would be welcome (and, based on posts here, I will be buying a burr
> grinder, as well).
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Doug
>




  
Date: 25 Nov 2006 15:08:39
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: First espresso machine
As Harry said, it's a matter of priorities. If you want to look at it
or desire some noire decor for the spare space on the kitchen counter
the FrancisFrancis machines are prefect. if making the best possible
espresso is priority one, look elsewhere.


Randy "I could add an adult internym, but won't" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com



"Harry Moos" <harrym@ruraltel.net > wrote:
>
>The sheer number of FrancisFrancis machines on e-Bay for resale [often with
>{no} bids] should tell you something about its reputation. Unless "cute" is what
>you are after, avoid it. With your budget, the Gaggia Classic/MDF grinder
>or the Rancilio Silvia/Rocky grinder should be a good starting point. I
>opted for the Silvia recently, but I can't really say the espresso is any
>better than I got from the Gaggia Coffee. I was advised against any HX
>machine because I only make espresso for myself and I don't make milk
>drinks.
>
><dsery@mit.edu> wrote in message
>news:1164415293.342814.312320@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> Hi,
>> I've finally tired of "espressos" being done on the stovetop and have
>> decided to graduate to an honest-to-goodness (consumer) espresso
>> machine ... now what? my girlfriend has her heart set on a
>> FrancisFrancis! (prefereably the X1) or, perhaps as an alternative, an
>> Expressione Retro, VillaWare Moderno Prima or an Ascaso Dream. All very
>> beautiful, but I'm really just looking for something that's going to
>> provide me a with reliably excellent espresso in the morning ...
>> afternoon, probably the evening, as well. Looking for something between
>> $400-$800 (only because of the X1). Any thoughts and/or suggestions
>> would be welcome (and, based on posts here, I will be buying a burr
>> grinder, as well).
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>>
>> Doug
>>
>


  
Date: 25 Nov 2006 14:59:38
From: Harry Moos
Subject: Re: First espresso machine
I meant to write [often with NO bids]. Sorry for the misinformation.

"Harry Moos" <harrym@ruraltel.net > wrote in message
news:9bqdnc1W6OvUAPXYnZ2dnUVZ_tWdnZ2d@news.ruraltel.net...
> The sheer number of FrancisFrancis machines on e-Bay for resale [often
> with xx
> bids] should tell you something about its reputation. Unless "cute" is
> what you are after, avoid it.




 
Date: 25 Nov 2006 11:10:27
From: Heat + Beans
Subject: Re: First espresso machine
dsery@mit.edu wrote:
Looking for something between
> $400-$800 (only because of the X1).
> Doug
This leaves open some question about your price point. Seems pretty
arbitrary.
So let me put this baseline "out there" as a perspective: Under $1500
(but not that much under) will buy you a grinder and espresso machine
that will, with time and attention and the gift of a sensitive palate,
allow you to produce close to the finest shots of the best professional
barristas (maybe not with the same consistency). With a higher degree
of technical, geek-like proficiency and careful selection you can "get
by" for around $1000.

My "set" pieces of advice:
1. Spend as much as you think you can afford plus 20%
2. Spend as much as you can without feeling embarrassed.
3. Espresso machines are more like your own children than like works
of art: whatever is yours is beautiful. (Conversely, cutie pie Francis
Francis might lose some of her allure).

The Francis is adorable, it fits well in small kitchens. It's best
suited for pods which are wonderfully convenient. And it makes a
quick, clean cappacino that's about as good as Starbucks. And you can
always take it to the office when you decide to upgrade. Most of the
people on this list have higher coffee aspirations than that. Many of
us have learned to appreciate truly fine espresso only after we've
"overbought" our own machines. The first "high-quality" espresso
machine is a bit of an act of faith.

tin



  
Date: 25 Nov 2006 19:34:56
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: First espresso machine
"Heat + Beans" <heatgunroast@gmail.com > wrote in
news:1164481826.784141.197770@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
> The first "high-quality" espresso
> machine is a bit of an act of faith.
>
> tin
>
>

You're close, but no cigar tin! Buying my first 'real' espresso machine
was more an act of fear than faith. My ol' ball & chain was just waiting to
LHAO if the machine (a LP Europiccola) didn't perform as promised.

We'd been to Italy & I was raving about the quality of coffee served at our
favorite trattoria. I just had to have my own machine at home & decided on
the LP, against my wife's judgment. She wanted me to buy the same machine
the trattoria used; a spring-loaded Faema two-group & have the barista
teach me how to use it.

The LP machine arrived in good condition & after a learning curve of
several months & many shots tossed into the sink, I was finally able to
make very good shots. My wife stopped laughing & I was allowed to present
coffee to friends & guests without the usual sniggering.

Buying a somewhat expensive machine is not hard to do for most of us; a
decent set of golf clubs costs three to four times what the typical home
machine/grinder combo will set you back. What's scary is the thought of
buying something that will make us look foolish, something that we'll be
constantly reminded of whenever we walk by the monster setting on our
kitchen counter top.

So I say it's not a lack of 'faith' keeping people from buying a good
espresso machine. It's the fear of being shown to be incompetent in front
of people we're desperately seeking approval from.

Robert (duck & cover) Harmon
--
http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
Remove "Z" to reply via email.




 
Date: 25 Nov 2006 05:45:55
From: Flasherly
Subject: Re: First espresso machine

kessler.steve@gmail.com wrote:
> I have a Rancilio Sylvia and I would highly recommend it. Plus you can
> "trick it out" with some really cool stuff.

May want to check with his girlfriendfirst.



 
Date: 25 Nov 2006 04:35:16
From: daveb
Subject: Re: First espresso machine
most all 'francis' is over priced drek!


Silvia / rocky combo --$775

Gaggia / MDF combo -- 600 or so,

owned both of the above for years, both are fine choices.

Dave

d



 
Date: 24 Nov 2006 20:59:29
From:
Subject: Re: First espresso machine
I have a Rancilio Sylvia and I would highly recommend it. Plus you can
"trick it out" with some really cool stuff. Coffeegeek has some
articles on that if you wanted to know more.
Steve
www.theespressolounge.net

On Nov 24, 8:42 pm, "Flasherly" <gjerr...@ij.net > wrote:
> d...@mit.edu wrote:
> > Hi,
> > I've finally tired of "espressos" being done on the stovetop and have
> > decided to graduate to an honest-to-goodness (consumer) espresso
> > machine ... now what? my girlfriend has her heart set on a
> > FrancisFrancis! (prefereably the X1) or, perhaps as an alternative, an
> > Expressione Retro, VillaWare Moderno Prima or an Ascaso Dream. All very
> > beautiful, but I'm really just looking for something that's going to
> > provide me a with reliably excellent espresso in the morning ...
> > afternoon, probably the evening, as well. Looking for something between
> > $400-$800 (only because of the X1). Any thoughts and/or suggestions
> > would be welcome (and, based on posts here, I will be buying a burr
> > grinder, as well).Don't think grinders are going to be beautiful in the same sense as
> browsing machine pictures (such as the FrancisFrancis) -- so may as
> well follow the rule of purist thumbs by nailing a grinder first. A
> provision within reservation given machine purchase value, that a
> balance then exists to determine functionality from decor in straining
> water through a qualified reference point. Claims are made, even as
> modest as a $100 espresso machine will benefit significantly through
> employing finest-quality grinders expressly intended to prepare
> espresso.



 
Date: 24 Nov 2006 19:42:41
From: Flasherly
Subject: Re: First espresso machine

dsery@mit.edu wrote:
> Hi,
> I've finally tired of "espressos" being done on the stovetop and have
> decided to graduate to an honest-to-goodness (consumer) espresso
> machine ... now what? my girlfriend has her heart set on a
> FrancisFrancis! (prefereably the X1) or, perhaps as an alternative, an
> Expressione Retro, VillaWare Moderno Prima or an Ascaso Dream. All very
> beautiful, but I'm really just looking for something that's going to
> provide me a with reliably excellent espresso in the morning ...
> afternoon, probably the evening, as well. Looking for something between
> $400-$800 (only because of the X1). Any thoughts and/or suggestions
> would be welcome (and, based on posts here, I will be buying a burr
> grinder, as well).


Don't think grinders are going to be beautiful in the same sense as
browsing machine pictures (such as the FrancisFrancis) -- so may as
well follow the rule of purist thumbs by nailing a grinder first. A
provision within reservation given machine purchase value, that a
balance then exists to determine functionality from decor in straining
water through a qualified reference point. Claims are made, even as
modest as a $100 espresso machine will benefit significantly through
employing finest-quality grinders expressly intended to prepare
espresso.



 
Date: 25 Nov 2006 03:26:22
From: robert Harmon
Subject: Re: First espresso machine
dsery@mit.edu wrote in news:1164415293.342814.312320
@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

> Hi,
> I've finally tired of "espressos" being done on the stovetop and have
> decided to graduate to an honest-to-goodness (consumer) espresso
> machine ... now what? my girlfriend has her heart set on a
> FrancisFrancis! (prefereably the X1) or, perhaps as an alternative, an
> Expressione Retro, VillaWare Moderno Prima or an Ascaso Dream. All very
> beautiful, but I'm really just looking for something that's going to
> provide me a with reliably excellent espresso in the morning ...
> afternoon, probably the evening, as well. Looking for something between
> $400-$800 (only because of the X1). Any thoughts and/or suggestions
> would be welcome (and, based on posts here, I will be buying a burr
> grinder, as well).
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Doug
>
>

You might look at the Gaggia line up of machines. At $200 - $500 they're
all excellent machines. Toss in a MDF grinder for $200 & you've got the
makings for great espresso.

For $500 you can also get the well regarded Rancilio Silvia & for another
$300 the Rancilio Rocky is a good choice for your grinder.

At a bit under $900 I'd recommend a Nuova Simonelli Oscar - A heat
exchanger machine with truly awesome steaming capabilities.

Robert (duck & cover) Harmon
--
http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
Remove "Z" to reply via email.