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Date: 24 Jan 2007 10:35:23
From: J
Subject: Getting a dark color at the beginning of a shot
I've been playing with my new Silvia this week and wondered about the
importance of getting a good dose of the dark liquid at the beginning
of a shot. My shots are all well within the Golden rule but some start
to lighten up quicker than I have seen in the "perfect shot" videos.
Basically the crema starts to form in the first quarter once. Is this
bad, am I over extracting?

Also, I wondered about controlling tangy or sour overtones in the shot.
Is this mostly controlled by the roast of the bean, or can this be
attributed to how the shot is made? Can an overly tangy taste be
related to my first issue of not enough of the dark liquid?

Thanks much!





 
Date: 25 Jan 2007 00:24:11
From: Ronald
Subject: Re: Getting a dark color at the beginning of a shot


"J" <jschwartz0@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1169663721.664492.169000@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> I've been playing with my new Silvia this week and wondered about the
> importance of getting a good dose of the dark liquid at the beginning
> of a shot. My shots are all well within the Golden rule but some start
> to lighten up quicker than I have seen in the "perfect shot" videos.
> Basically the crema starts to form in the first quarter once. Is this
> bad, am I over extracting?
>
> Also, I wondered about controlling tangy or sour overtones in the shot.
> Is this mostly controlled by the roast of the bean, or can this be
> attributed to how the shot is made? Can an overly tangy taste be
> related to my first issue of not enough of the dark liquid?
>
> Thanks much!
>

A short stream of very dark fluid can sometimes occur when the filter is not
filled with enough coffee and/or the puck has not expanded enough by the
first water (preinfusion one way or the other).
It's in my 10 espresso rules, to throw away that part (if it occurs).

Ronald




 
Date: 24 Jan 2007 14:04:13
From: J
Subject: Re: Getting a dark color at the beginning of a shot
I really appreciate the info.

I was thinking the rich red-brown color from the start could be a good
thing- especially as it clouds and falls in visibly cascading waves
down the shot glass as it fills up. The creme from Miss Silvia has been
exceptional.

I have been using (very fresh) Peet's Espresso Forte, but am going to
switch to Major Dickenson's or Garuda to see if I can mellow out the
tangy tones without losing altogether.

-Jonathan

In my experience, very dark/black strings at the first sign of coffee
> out of the portafilter is a k of coffee that is not as fresh as it
> should be. I always get this with older coffee but with freshly roasted
> beans the beautiful red-brown colour starts right away, but lasts the
> full 25-30 s pour.
>
> Some beans are more tangy than others and might not be suitable for
> espresso. Good espresso blends IMO balance this tangyness with other
> attributes so that it is not overpowering but meshes with the other
> flavours and provides a brightness that you would miss if it weren't
> there. This is similar to wine where acid is a good thing to provide
> balance, but in excess it's a bad thing.
>
> John



 
Date: 24 Jan 2007 13:26:39
From: chardinej
Subject: Re: Getting a dark color at the beginning of a shot


On Jan 24, 2:35 pm, "J" <jschwar...@gmail.com > wrote:
> I've been playing with my new Silvia this week and wondered about the
> importance of getting a good dose of the dark liquid at the beginning
> of a shot. My shots are all well within the Golden rule but some start
> to lighten up quicker than I have seen in the "perfect shot" videos.
> Basically the crema starts to form in the first quarter once. Is this
> bad, am I over extracting?
>
> Also, I wondered about controlling tangy or sour overtones in the shot.
> Is this mostly controlled by the roast of the bean, or can this be
> attributed to how the shot is made? Can an overly tangy taste be
> related to my first issue of not enough of the dark liquid?
>
> Thanks much!

In my experience, very dark/black strings at the first sign of coffee
out of the portafilter is a k of coffee that is not as fresh as it
should be. I always get this with older coffee but with freshly roasted
beans the beautiful red-brown colour starts right away, but lasts the
full 25-30 s pour.

Some beans are more tangy than others and might not be suitable for
espresso. Good espresso blends IMO balance this tangyness with other
attributes so that it is not overpowering but meshes with the other
flavours and provides a brightness that you would miss if it weren't
there. This is similar to wine where acid is a good thing to provide
balance, but in excess it's a bad thing.

John



 
Date: 24 Jan 2007 11:23:32
From: J
Subject: Re: Getting a dark color at the beginning of a shot
Cool water, glasses, and/or brew group would be a good possibility. I
need to be more patient!

My timing is around 23-26 seconds.

Jonathan

On Jan 24, 11:11 am, "daveb" <davebobbl...@gmail.com > wrote:
> Tangy or sour notes are often due to brew water that is too cool.
>
> how is your timing about 2 oz. in 18 to 23 or so seconds?
>
> Dave
>



  
Date: 24 Jan 2007 14:32:40
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Getting a dark color at the beginning of a shot
yup.
warm up the machine for at LEAST 30 minutes, with the handle in place.
and the top of the machine really is not a cup warmer.

dave


"J" <jschwartz0@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1169666612.724194.66350@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Cool water, glasses, and/or brew group would be a good possibility. I
> need to be more patient!
>
> My timing is around 23-26 seconds.
>
> Jonathan
>
> On Jan 24, 11:11 am, "daveb" <davebobbl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Tangy or sour notes are often due to brew water that is too cool.
>>
>> how is your timing about 2 oz. in 18 to 23 or so seconds?
>>
>> Dave
>>
>




 
Date: 24 Jan 2007 14:11:20
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Getting a dark color at the beginning of a shot
Tangy or sour notes are often due to brew water that is too cool.

how is your timing about 2 oz. in 18 to 23 or so seconds?

Dave

"J" <jschwartz0@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1169663721.664492.169000@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> I've been playing with my new Silvia this week and wondered about the
> importance of getting a good dose of the dark liquid at the beginning
> of a shot. My shots are all well within the Golden rule but some start
> to lighten up quicker than I have seen in the "perfect shot" videos.
> Basically the crema starts to form in the first quarter once. Is this
> bad, am I over extracting?
>
> Also, I wondered about controlling tangy or sour overtones in the shot.
> Is this mostly controlled by the roast of the bean, or can this be
> attributed to how the shot is made? Can an overly tangy taste be
> related to my first issue of not enough of the dark liquid?
>
> Thanks much!
>