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Date: 28 Oct 2006 20:54:11
From: Fathergoose
Subject: Grinder Question?
Hello,
I have a "Solis Maestro" coffee grinder. It is a conical burr grinder.
My question is, do the burrs wear out and need replacement or do you have to
replace the whole grinder?

I have noticed the ground coffee coming out is not as good as it used to be
and I tried cleaning it but I noticed wear on the removable burr set so.....

I have liked it very well other than that.

thanks........

--
~~ Bill ~~






 
Date: 01 Nov 2006 18:31:02
From:
Subject: Re: Grinderburr life 5 to to years.
One more thing.

When the grinder mills touch, they contact on the flat, non-cutting
surface of the mill and have no effect on the life of the mill. It is,
actually, how best to adjust them when initially set. All the work is
done on the vertical edges and touching the mills to each other has no
impact.

Michael



 
Date: 01 Nov 2006 18:28:33
From:
Subject: Re: Grinderburr life 5 to to years.

I, too, have a Ditting commercial grinder and the life expectancy has
little to do with material differences between mills you might find
between those and a Mazzer. The life has to do with the surface area
of the mill, which is many times larger on the Ditting.

Regardless of what Ditting may claim, I think 15,000 pounds is a little
optimistic. Mine has not seen anywhere close to that much and I doubt
it could sharpen a pencil. The reason to sharpen them is that they
cost a fortune to buy. An absolutely stupid amount of money.

There are different grades of steel used in industrial grinders, and
sometimes they are coated in titanium to increase life. Conical
grinders also last longer due to the increased surface area.

It would be interesting to see if anyone makes a set out of carbide or
cobalt.

50mm should go to about 300 to 350 pounds.
64mm to about 650 to 700
84mm should nudge 1000 pounds
Full size conicals about 1400.

These are only approximatations. Grind time to process a fixed amount
of coffee is the correct measure. When it increases by about 20% they
need to be changed.

Michael



  
Date: 01 Nov 2006 21:57:17
From: Craig Andrews
Subject: Re: Grinderburr life 5 to to years.

<michael@espressopartsource.com > wrote in message
news:1162434513.041874.314750@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> I, too, have a Ditting commercial grinder and the life expectancy has
> little to do with material differences between mills you might find
> between those and a Mazzer. The life has to do with the surface area
> of the mill, which is many times larger on the Ditting.
>
> Regardless of what Ditting may claim, I think 15,000 pounds is a
> little
> optimistic. Mine has not seen anywhere close to that much and I doubt
> it could sharpen a pencil. The reason to sharpen them is that they
> cost a fortune to buy. An absolutely stupid amount of money.
>
> There are different grades of steel used in industrial grinders, and
> sometimes they are coated in titanium to increase life. Conical
> grinders also last longer due to the increased surface area.
>
> It would be interesting to see if anyone makes a set out of carbide or
> cobalt.


Yes, Titanium coated, next hardest Zirconium coated, Cobalt, Titanium
Coated and Carbon Nitrited.
Craig.


>
> 50mm should go to about 300 to 350 pounds.
> 64mm to about 650 to 700
> 84mm should nudge 1000 pounds
> Full size conicals about 1400.
>
> These are only approximatations. Grind time to process a fixed amount
> of coffee is the correct measure. When it increases by about 20% they
> need to be changed.
>
> Michael
>



 
Date: 30 Oct 2006 07:49:35
From: Flasherly
Subject: Re: Grinder Question?

Craig Andrews wrote:
> The Moog parts are a HELL of a lot superior to the offshore crap.

So they say - but what if I drive like a little 'ol lady....



  
Date: 30 Oct 2006 10:53:08
From: Craig Andrews
Subject: Re: Grinder Question?

"Flasherly" <gjerrell@ij.net > wrote in message
news:1162223375.501552.317980@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>
> Craig Andrews wrote:
>> The Moog parts are a HELL of a lot superior to the offshore crap.
>
> So they say - but what if I drive like a little 'ol lady....
>

Then they'll last a few lifetimes then! {;-)
Cheers!
Craig.



 
Date: 30 Oct 2006 07:38:59
From: Flasherly
Subject: Re: Grinder Question?
Phil P wrote:
> Has any reduction in grind quality been identified/alleged between
> manufacturer and pattern burrs to anyone's knowledge? Is it a similar
> situation to car parts where there are different quality levels within
> pattern parts of the same type, from full 'OE quality' down to total
> crap?

Depends on usage/habits - OE's going to be just another boast for
advertising across the field, although a little "talk about town" with
people in the know (experienced mechanics), the bottom line can readily
be found. A mechanic might pitch a fit and stomp it all over his MACH
set, but if all it takes for an application is an Harbor Freight
pot-metal order, all's fine. May not need to ratchet 3/4" 500lb.
torqued sets everyday. Readily observable, readily applicable, and may
as well stop to compliment the chrome sheen all over his MACH tools.
Problem here is specialty neither applicable or observable. Good luck
finding an amalgamation of steel constituents in burrs and related
harboring tolerances, or a Haynes manual for a breakdown on testing and
sharpening edges. Advice is advanced over hands-on. And, as is
usually the case with niche items, there's a premium involved. Want
extravagance and luxury in a vehicle, then it won't be about OE, but
factory brand and not afterketing. I won't extol my German
mill-style wheel grinder that cost $30US and change. What I question
is a comparative dollar-averaged result German crap produces at under
$100, inclusive of a pressurized espresso setup. Seems a good many
variables exist between grind characteristics and consistency, and how
machines best treat a result. The coffee beans is another stress
point. Nothing great about a drink if I don't care for the beans, any
quality grinder withstanding. Lastly, a gradiant for taste to tradeoff
by a quality equipment derives. Again, the niche ket. Nobody's
knocked me down on the street yet to drive home how good espresso
tastes apart from what I'm shooting. I certainly like it, not
withstanding an open challenge. Then again, the Taiwan upper and lower
control-arm ball joints I'm replacing for $60 probably won't make a
difference if I spent a buck or two more for Moog. The way I drive,
mostly off the sidewalks, I see within an order to fairly beat a couple
OE mechanics at $900 and change.



  
Date: 30 Oct 2006 10:46:45
From: Craig Andrews
Subject: Re: Grinder Question?

"Flasherly" <gjerrell@ij.net > wrote in message
news:1162222739.744099.268850@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Phil P wrote:
Then again, the Taiwan upper and lower
> control-arm ball joints I'm replacing for $60 probably won't make a
> difference if I spent a buck or two more for Moog. The way I drive,
> mostly off the sidewalks, I see within an order to fairly beat a
> couple
> OE mechanics at $900 and change.
>

The Moog parts are a HELL of a lot superior to the offshore crap.
Craig.



 
Date: 30 Oct 2006 06:11:31
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Grinderburr life 5 to to years.
both burrs must be replaced together, as they are BOTH part of the
alleged problem.
burrs should last 300 to 500 lbs of coffee typically. 5 to 10 years in
normal home use.

You may have another problem -- slop in the bearings or burr retaining
collar.

Daveb

Saeco / Gaggia service SE
140.5



  
Date: 30 Oct 2006 17:03:14
From: Danny
Subject: Re: Grinderburr life 5 to to years.
daveb wrote:
> both burrs must be replaced together, as they are BOTH part of the
> alleged problem.
> burrs should last 300 to 500 lbs of coffee typically. 5 to 10 years in
> normal home use.
>
> You may have another problem -- slop in the bearings or burr retaining
> collar.
>
> Daveb
>
> Saeco / Gaggia service SE
> 140.5
>

Unlikely, at least at espresso fineness, from previous posts here.
I've heard that at this fineness the burrs can touch when the grinder
is empty, further shortening their life.

--
Regards, Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
http://www.malabargold.co.uk (UK/EU ordering for Malabar Gold blend)



  
Date: 30 Oct 2006 10:36:03
From: pltrgyst
Subject: Re: Grinderburr life 5 to to years.
On 30 Oct 2006 06:11:31 -0800, "daveb" <davebobblane@gmail.com > wrote:

>both burrs must be replaced together, as they are BOTH part of the
>alleged problem.
>burrs should last 300 to 500 lbs of coffee typically. 5 to 10 years in
>normal home use.

My KR804 Ditting's grinder plates have a life expectancy *between resharpenings*
of 15,000 lbs. At 1 or two pounds a week, I never expect to have to resharpen or
replace in my lifetime. Other Ditting models carry life expectancies of up to
100,000 pounds.

Anything in the range of 300-500 lbs. must be really soft steel, crappy burrs.

Finer grinds wear the plates more than coarser grinds, so any such number varies
somewhat depending on usage.

-- Larry


 
Date: 30 Oct 2006 02:39:34
From: Phil P
Subject: Re: Grinder Question?

Danny wrote:
> Robert Harmon wrote:
>
> > This represents the biggest problem of buying a second-tier grinder. You
> > save money in the short term, but pay more in the long. Yes, the burrs are
> > repaceable, now & again in a couple of years, ad infinitum.
> >
> > A first-tier grinder (Gaggia MDF & up) should last the typical home user a
> > lifetime without needing to replace a burr set. I don't know if burr wear
> > is a problem of size or incorrect heat treatment but I've never heard of a
> > conical burr grinder that can outlast a flat burr grinder.
> >
> > Robert (Life's a grind.) Harmon
>
> There will be an MTBF for the burrs on all grinders, conical or flat.
> Can be as little as 150kg - 300kg of bean throughput, which isn't
> the lifetime of a domestic user. Using genuine, rather than pattern,
> burrs will also affect longevity, but can be financially viable if
> pattern burrs cost 50% the cost of genuine burrs and last more than
> half as long, for instance. Of course, some "genuine" burrs aren't
> much better than pattern, and just have a greater kup on them.
>
> I assume the OP is actually adjusting the grind to take up the wear to
> a point until the burrs actually have worn out.

Has any reduction in grind quality been identified/alleged between
manufacturer and pattern burrs to anyone's knowledge? Is it a similar
situation to car parts where there are different quality levels within
pattern parts of the same type, from full 'OE quality' down to total
crap?



  
Date: 30 Oct 2006 16:49:00
From: Danny
Subject: Re: Grinder Question?
Phil P wrote:

> Has any reduction in grind quality been identified/alleged between
> manufacturer and pattern burrs to anyone's knowledge? Is it a similar
> situation to car parts where there are different quality levels within
> pattern parts of the same type, from full 'OE quality' down to total
> crap?
>

In the case of the Cimbali Junior, original Burrs are superior, and
the output is noticeably better than when using cheaper Iberital
burrs. But Cimbali burrs cost much more than pattern (if I could even
find Cimbali burrs these days), even if they seem to produce a better
crema. Pattern burrs seem duller when new.


--
Regards, Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
http://www.malabargold.co.uk (UK/EU ordering for Malabar Gold blend)



 
Date: 29 Oct 2006 20:09:17
From: Luke
Subject: Re: Grinder Question?
On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 20:54:11 GMT, "Fathergoose"
<mothergoose_enb@yahoo.com > wrote:

>Hello,
>I have a "Solis Maestro" coffee grinder. It is a conical burr grinder.
>My question is, do the burrs wear out and need replacement or do you have to
>replace the whole grinder?

The burrs, usually the top burr, can wear out and can readily be
replaced. See: http://www.baratza.com/solis_parts.php

>I have noticed the ground coffee coming out is not as good as it used to be
>and I tried cleaning it but I noticed wear on the removable burr set so.....
[snip]

What, precisely, do you mean by "not as good as it used to be" and
"wear on the removable burr"? It might be best for you to contact
Baratza: http://www.baratza.com. Luck!

--
Luke
___________________________________________________________________
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest
exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior
moral justification for selfishness."
-- John Kenneth Galbraith

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com



  
Date: 30 Oct 2006 11:19:07
From: Fathergoose
Subject: Re: Grinder Question?

"Luke" <luke@nowhere.invalid > wrote in message
news:ikqak2lo0e8mfgca9h65a9h7hm1lovp0bv@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 20:54:11 GMT, "Fathergoose"
> <mothergoose_enb@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Hello,
>>I have a "Solis Maestro" coffee grinder. It is a conical burr grinder.
>>My question is, do the burrs wear out and need replacement or do you have
>>to
>>replace the whole grinder?
>
> The burrs, usually the top burr, can wear out and can readily be
> replaced. See: http://www.baratza.com/solis_parts.php
>
>>I have noticed the ground coffee coming out is not as good as it used to
>>be
>>and I tried cleaning it but I noticed wear on the removable burr set
>>so.....
> [snip]
>
> What, precisely, do you mean by "not as good as it used to be" and
> "wear on the removable burr"? It might be best for you to contact
> Baratza: http://www.baratza.com. Luck!

> --
> Luke
=====================
I mean the grind is more like my portable blade grinder where the coffee is
uneven, some little chunks verses all even.
Where it used to be very even coming out of the burr grinder.
So I see where you say it is very normal to have to replace the removable
burr, (top) .

Thanks for the links I will use them.

Bill




   
Date: 30 Oct 2006 07:47:20
From: Luke
Subject: Re: Grinder Question?
On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 11:19:07 GMT, "Fathergoose"
<mothergoose_enb@yahoo.com > wrote:

>"Luke" <luke@nowhere.invalid> wrote in message
>news:ikqak2lo0e8mfgca9h65a9h7hm1lovp0bv@4ax.com...
[snip]
>> What, precisely, do you mean by "not as good as it used to be" and
>> "wear on the removable burr"? It might be best for you to contact
>> Baratza: http://www.baratza.com. Luck!
[snip]
>
>I mean the grind is more like my portable blade grinder where the coffee is
>uneven, some little chunks verses all even.
>Where it used to be very even coming out of the burr grinder.
>So I see where you say it is very normal to have to replace the removable
>burr, (top) .
>
>Thanks for the links I will use them.

The symptom I had on my Solis 166 (aka Starbucks Barista), which I
believe uses the same burrs as the Maestro, was a slower grind, and
the top burr was definitely dull. Replacing the top burr returned the
grinder to like new operation. I suggest you call Baratza and describe
your Maestro problem(s) to Kyle or Kyra. They'll be able to give you a
definitive answer.

--
Luke
______________________________________________________________________
"It is unknowable how long that conflict [Iraq] will last. It could
last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months."
-- Donald Rumsfeld, February 7, 2003


 
Date: 28 Oct 2006 22:40:19
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Grinder Question?
"Fathergoose" <mothergoose_enb@yahoo.com > wrote in
news:TrP0h.5128$HY5.3074@trnddc06:

> Hello,
> I have a "Solis Maestro" coffee grinder. It is a conical burr grinder.
> My question is, do the burrs wear out and need replacement or do you
> have to replace the whole grinder?
>
> I have noticed the ground coffee coming out is not as good as it used
> to be and I tried cleaning it but I noticed wear on the removable burr
> set so.....
>
> I have liked it very well other than that.
>
> thanks........
>

This represents the biggest problem of buying a second-tier grinder. You
save money in the short term, but pay more in the long. Yes, the burrs are
repaceable, now & again in a couple of years, ad infinitum.

A first-tier grinder (Gaggia MDF & up) should last the typical home user a
lifetime without needing to replace a burr set. I don't know if burr wear
is a problem of size or incorrect heat treatment but I've never heard of a
conical burr grinder that can outlast a flat burr grinder.

Robert (Life's a grind.) Harmon
--
http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
Remove "Z" to reply via email.


  
Date: 29 Oct 2006 07:52:33
From: Danny
Subject: Re: Grinder Question?
Robert Harmon wrote:

> This represents the biggest problem of buying a second-tier grinder. You
> save money in the short term, but pay more in the long. Yes, the burrs are
> repaceable, now & again in a couple of years, ad infinitum.
>
> A first-tier grinder (Gaggia MDF & up) should last the typical home user a
> lifetime without needing to replace a burr set. I don't know if burr wear
> is a problem of size or incorrect heat treatment but I've never heard of a
> conical burr grinder that can outlast a flat burr grinder.
>
> Robert (Life's a grind.) Harmon

There will be an MTBF for the burrs on all grinders, conical or flat.
Can be as little as 150kg - 300kg of bean throughput, which isn't
the lifetime of a domestic user. Using genuine, rather than pattern,
burrs will also affect longevity, but can be financially viable if
pattern burrs cost 50% the cost of genuine burrs and last more than
half as long, for instance. Of course, some "genuine" burrs aren't
much better than pattern, and just have a greater kup on them.

I assume the OP is actually adjusting the grind to take up the wear to
a point until the burrs actually have worn out.


--
Regards, Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
http://www.malabargold.co.uk (UK/EU ordering for Malabar Gold blend)