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Date: 22 Feb 2007 13:47:40
From: Guy Snape
Subject: Grinder problems?
Two strange things happening with my grinder (Cunill tranquilo).
Firstly, the zero point where the burrs start to touch seems to vary
about 5 clicks in either direction from one session to the next. Second,
it takes a really long time to grind - I've not timed it but it's easily
a minute and maybe close to two minutes for 14 grams. I only put 14g at
a time in because my wife drinks decaf. Most of the beans seem to grind
in a reasonable time, but the last few just rattle around for ages.

Are either of these things normal? Do I need to take it apart and see
what's going on inside? I've only had it just over a year.

Thanks for any help.

- guy
--
Remove the obvious to reply.




 
Date: 22 Feb 2007 09:59:19
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Grinder problems?
On Feb 22, 11:54 am, Guy Snape <g...@snapefamily.theobvious.org.uk >
wrote:
> daveb wrote:
> > On Feb 22, 8:47 am, Guy Snape <g...@snapefamily.theobvious.org.uk>
> > wrote:
> >> Two strange things happening with my grinder (Cunill tranquilo).
> >> Firstly, the zero point where the burrs start to touch seems to vary
> >> about 5 clicks in either direction from one session to the next. Second,
> >> it takes a really long time to grind - I've not timed it but it's easily
> >> a minute and maybe close to two minutes for 14 grams. I only put 14g at
> >> a time in because my wife drinks decaf. Most of the beans seem to grind
> >> in a reasonable time, but the last few just rattle around for ages.
>
> >> Are either of these things normal? Do I need to take it apart and see
> >> what's going on inside? I've only had it just over a year.
>
> >> Thanks for any help.
>
> >> - guy
> >> --
> >> Remove the obvious to reply.
>
> > In re: the "zero" issue, that would point to slop or looseness in the
> > burr carrier -- NOT a good thing at all.
>
> :-(
>
> Is it fixable? Could I do it myself?
>
> - guy
> --
> Remove the obvious to reply.

I don't think so. but as craig sez there is the teflon tape mod.

and you should NOT have to be 'zeroing' the grinder very often!!!

dave



 
Date: 22 Feb 2007 07:13:51
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Grinder problems?
On Feb 22, 8:47 am, Guy Snape <g...@snapefamily.theobvious.org.uk >
wrote:
> Two strange things happening with my grinder (Cunill tranquilo).
> Firstly, the zero point where the burrs start to touch seems to vary
> about 5 clicks in either direction from one session to the next. Second,
> it takes a really long time to grind - I've not timed it but it's easily
> a minute and maybe close to two minutes for 14 grams. I only put 14g at
> a time in because my wife drinks decaf. Most of the beans seem to grind
> in a reasonable time, but the last few just rattle around for ages.
>
> Are either of these things normal? Do I need to take it apart and see
> what's going on inside? I've only had it just over a year.
>
> Thanks for any help.
>
> - guy
> --
> Remove the obvious to reply.

In re: the "zero" issue, that would point to slop or looseness in the
burr carrier -- NOT a good thing at all.

dave



  
Date: 22 Feb 2007 16:54:52
From: Guy Snape
Subject: Re: Grinder problems?
daveb wrote:
> On Feb 22, 8:47 am, Guy Snape <g...@snapefamily.theobvious.org.uk>
> wrote:
>> Two strange things happening with my grinder (Cunill tranquilo).
>> Firstly, the zero point where the burrs start to touch seems to vary
>> about 5 clicks in either direction from one session to the next. Second,
>> it takes a really long time to grind - I've not timed it but it's easily
>> a minute and maybe close to two minutes for 14 grams. I only put 14g at
>> a time in because my wife drinks decaf. Most of the beans seem to grind
>> in a reasonable time, but the last few just rattle around for ages.
>>
>> Are either of these things normal? Do I need to take it apart and see
>> what's going on inside? I've only had it just over a year.
>>
>> Thanks for any help.
>>
>> - guy
>> --
>> Remove the obvious to reply.
>
> In re: the "zero" issue, that would point to slop or looseness in the
> burr carrier -- NOT a good thing at all.

:-(

Is it fixable? Could I do it myself?

- guy
--
Remove the obvious to reply.


   
Date: 22 Feb 2007 12:03:55
From: Craig Andrews
Subject: Re: Grinder problems?

"Guy Snape" <guy@snapefamily.theobvious.org.uk > wrote in message
news:wVjDh.19789$s47.14738@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...
> daveb wrote:
>> On Feb 22, 8:47 am, Guy Snape <g...@snapefamily.theobvious.org.uk>
>> wrote:
>>> Two strange things happening with my grinder (Cunill tranquilo).
>>> Firstly, the zero point where the burrs start to touch seems to vary
>>> about 5 clicks in either direction from one session to the next.
>>> Second,
>>> it takes a really long time to grind - I've not timed it but it's
>>> easily
>>> a minute and maybe close to two minutes for 14 grams. I only put 14g
>>> at
>>> a time in because my wife drinks decaf. Most of the beans seem to
>>> grind
>>> in a reasonable time, but the last few just rattle around for ages.
>>>
>>> Are either of these things normal? Do I need to take it apart and
>>> see
>>> what's going on inside? I've only had it just over a year.
>>>
>>> Thanks for any help.
>>>
>>> - guy
>>> --
>>> Remove the obvious to reply.
>>
>> In re: the "zero" issue, that would point to slop or looseness in the
>> burr carrier -- NOT a good thing at all.
>
> :-(
>
> Is it fixable? Could I do it myself?
>
> - guy
> --
> Remove the obvious to reply.

Yes, a teflon tape mod, a few wraps on the upper burr carrier to take
out the slop/play.
Craig.



 
Date: 22 Feb 2007 07:09:53
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Grinder problems?
On Feb 22, 8:47 am, Guy Snape <g...@snapefamily.theobvious.org.uk >
wrote:
> Two strange things happening with my grinder (Cunill tranquilo).
> Firstly, the zero point where the burrs start to touch seems to vary
> about 5 clicks in either direction from one session to the next. Second,
> it takes a really long time to grind - I've not timed it but it's easily
> a minute and maybe close to two minutes for 14 grams. I only put 14g at
> a time in because my wife drinks decaf. Most of the beans seem to grind
> in a reasonable time, but the last few just rattle around for ages.
>
> Are either of these things normal? Do I need to take it apart and see
> what's going on inside? I've only had it just over a year.
>
> Thanks for any help.
>
> - guy
> --
> Remove the obvious to reply.

" Most of the beans seem to grind
in a reasonable time, but the last few just rattle around for ages. "
<-- there is your answer. that's totally normal . . . .

I understand you only have 1 grinder for 2 types of coffee.
maybe grind "ahead" some of the decaf?

Dave
Saeco / Gaggia service SE



 
Date: 22 Feb 2007 14:42:14
From: Danny
Subject: Re: Grinder problems?
Guy Snape wrote:
> Two strange things happening with my grinder (Cunill tranquilo).
> Firstly, the zero point where the burrs start to touch seems to vary
> about 5 clicks in either direction from one session to the next. Second,
> it takes a really long time to grind - I've not timed it but it's easily
> a minute and maybe close to two minutes for 14 grams. I only put 14g at
> a time in because my wife drinks decaf. Most of the beans seem to grind
> in a reasonable time, but the last few just rattle around for ages.
>
> Are either of these things normal? Do I need to take it apart and see
> what's going on inside? I've only had it just over a year.
>
> Thanks for any help.
>
> - guy

Using a (semi) commercial grinder with few beans in the hopper is not
good for them. Grinders rely on gravity to get the beans through.
You could try removing the guard (if present) and placing an object
(tamper) on the beans to help them through. The grinder may be in
need of a clean, and check the burrs whilst cleaning, although in
domestic use the burrs should last years. I would expect the grinder
to grind 14 grammes in as many seconds, or less. Try using more beans
to check timimg.

--
Regards, Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)



  
Date: 22 Feb 2007 18:30:13
From: Guy Snape
Subject: Re: Grinder problems?
Danny wrote:

> Using a (semi) commercial grinder with few beans in the hopper is not
> good for them. Grinders rely on gravity to get the beans through. You
> could try removing the guard (if present) and placing an object (tamper)
> on the beans to help them through. The grinder may be in need of a
> clean, and check the burrs whilst cleaning, although in domestic use the
> burrs should last years.

Here are pictures:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/guy.snape/coffee/lower_burr.jpg
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/guy.snape/coffee/upper_burr.jpg

Do they look OK?

I've given it a clean. Couldn't find anything that felt at all loose,
I'll grind some more beans and see how it goes. Thanks for the hints.

- guy


I would expect the grinder to grind 14 grammes
> in as many seconds, or less. Try using more beans to check timimg.
>


--
Remove the obvious to reply.


   
Date: 22 Feb 2007 20:35:48
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Grinder problems?
Howdy Guy!
It appears that you've been grinding something other than coffee beans. If
you don't have one get a magnet for your hopper (I just replaced a set of
burrs after losing a screw). That'll take care of ferrous metals but it
won't stop the occasional pebble. If you roast your own do a better job
inspecting & if you're buying pre roasted try a different vendor.

If you have access to a good hone, diamond preferably, lay the burrs flat on
the hone & polish them in a non-repetitive pattern. The outer flat edge is
where the final sizing is performed. This is also the only part that can be
readily sharpened.

Finally, check that the screws are tight. I had a machine made under lousy
QA oversight that had screws that were constantly loosening (probably had
oversized screw holes) and the only thing that worked was to use LocTite on
the threads.
--
Robert (Gig 'em!) Harmon
http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
http://tinyurl.com/psfob
http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r

"Guy Snape" <guy@snapefamily.theobvious.org.uk > wrote in message
news:VilDh.29645$wP3.25613@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net...
> Danny wrote:
>
>> Using a (semi) commercial grinder with few beans in the hopper is not
>> good for them. Grinders rely on gravity to get the beans through. You
>> could try removing the guard (if present) and placing an object (tamper)
>> on the beans to help them through. The grinder may be in need of a
>> clean, and check the burrs whilst cleaning, although in domestic use the
>> burrs should last years.
>
> Here are pictures:
>
> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/guy.snape/coffee/lower_burr.jpg
> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/guy.snape/coffee/upper_burr.jpg
>
> Do they look OK?
>
> I've given it a clean. Couldn't find anything that felt at all loose, I'll
> grind some more beans and see how it goes. Thanks for the hints.
>
> - guy
>
>
> I would expect the grinder to grind 14 grammes
>> in as many seconds, or less. Try using more beans to check timimg.
>>
>
>
> --
> Remove the obvious to reply.




   
Date: 22 Feb 2007 19:35:25
From: Danny
Subject: Re: Grinder problems?
Guy Snape wrote:

> Here are pictures:
>
> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/guy.snape/coffee/lower_burr.jpg
> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/guy.snape/coffee/upper_burr.jpg
>
> Do they look OK?
>
> I've given it a clean. Couldn't find anything that felt at all loose,
> I'll grind some more beans and see how it goes. Thanks for the hints.
>
> - guy
>
>
> I would expect the grinder to grind 14 grammes
>
>> in as many seconds, or less. Try using more beans to check timimg.
>>
>
>

Apart from a foreign object having caught the burrs they look OK - do
they feel sharp? The way to tell is to run a fingernail acorss the
cutting edge, which should remove some nail!

I'd definitely try the grinder with a decent weight of beans in the
hopper, or a weight to push them down at least.

I'd personally get another grinder if you constantly change beans -
maybe the nice little Iberital for decaf, or Bodum antigua if still
available. Not much counter space.


--
Regards, Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)



    
Date: 23 Feb 2007 09:28:49
From: Guy Snape
Subject: Re: Grinder problems?
Danny wrote:
> Guy Snape wrote:
>
>> Here are pictures:
>>
>> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/guy.snape/coffee/lower_burr.jpg
>> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/guy.snape/coffee/upper_burr.jpg
>>
>> Do they look OK?
>>
>> I've given it a clean. Couldn't find anything that felt at all loose,
>> I'll grind some more beans and see how it goes. Thanks for the hints.
>>
>> - guy
>>
>>
>> I would expect the grinder to grind 14 grammes
>>
>>> in as many seconds, or less. Try using more beans to check timimg.
>>>
>>
>>
>
> Apart from a foreign object having caught the burrs they look OK - do
> they feel sharp? The way to tell is to run a fingernail acorss the
> cutting edge, which should remove some nail!

I'll have to disassemble it again sometime to check. Are you referring
to the line in the top right of the picture of the lower burr?

> I'd definitely try the grinder with a decent weight of beans in the
> hopper, or a weight to push thm down at least.

Just tried it with more beans in the hopper, counted 14 mississippi and
got 13g out, so that's that problem sorted.


> I'd personally get another grinder if you constantly change beans -
> maybe the nice little Iberital for decaf, or Bodum antigua if still
> available. Not much counter space.

Both of those are available, the Bodum is 80 quid, the Iberital is 116 -
is it worth the extra? I'll have to leave it a while anyway, having just
spent 300 quid on the quickmill.

The good news is that I just ground on setting 4, tamped a bit harder (I
know I need to buy a proper tamper, I'm still using the plastic
scoop/tamper that came with my old morphy richards machine - even that
is better than the flimsy thing that came with the quickmill) pulled a
double and although it still took about 8 seconds for the 2 oz, it
didn't go blonde straight away and had some reasonable crema, and more
importantly, it tasted like coffee. So I reckon if I go a bit finer, I
might be getting closer to a really good shot.

Thanks again for the help.

- guy


>
>


--
Remove the obvious to reply.


     
Date: 23 Feb 2007 10:52:28
From: Danny
Subject: Re: Grinder problems?
Guy Snape wrote:

> I'll have to disassemble it again sometime to check. Are you referring
> to the line in the top right of the picture of the lower burr?

Upper burr, just to the left off the top screw in the image, amongst
other areas.

>
>> I'd definitely try the grinder with a decent weight of beans in the
>> hopper, or a weight to push thm down at least.
>
>
> Just tried it with more beans in the hopper, counted 14 mississippi and
> got 13g out, so that's that problem sorted.

Good!

>
>
>> I'd personally get another grinder if you constantly change beans -
>> maybe the nice little Iberital for decaf, or Bodum antigua if still
>> available. Not much counter space.
>
>
> Both of those are available, the Bodum is 80 quid, the Iberital is 116 -
> is it worth the extra? I'll have to leave it a while anyway, having just
> spent 300 quid on the quickmill.

Bodum is available for nearer 50, or was last time I looked.
Iberital is a nice little grinder, with stepless adjustment, so is a
pain to change between different brewing methods - espresso do drip
etc. Within espresso, fine adjustment is the key.

>
> The good news is that I just ground on setting 4, tamped a bit harder (I
> know I need to buy a proper tamper, I'm still using the plastic
> scoop/tamper that came with my old morphy richards machine - even that
> is better than the flimsy thing that came with the quickmill) pulled a
> double and although it still took about 8 seconds for the 2 oz, it
> didn't go blonde straight away and had some reasonable crema, and more
> importantly, it tasted like coffee. So I reckon if I go a bit finer, I
> might be getting closer to a really good shot.

As previously mentioned, check that the burr carrier has no slop in
it. Be prepared to adjust the grind many times in small increments
until you get your 25 second 2 ounce double (or there abouts - as long
as you get a nice slow honey-like pour and you stop the shot as it
starts to blonde). Then be prepared to adjust grind whenever humidity
and beans change.

Get a good tamper. There's often a guy in the US (on Ebay) who ships
a nice stainless steel and rosewood tamper (similar to Reg's) for a
good price. In the meantime, I find a tomato ketchup bottle is a good
fit in 58mm portafilters :)


--
Regards, Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)



  
Date: 22 Feb 2007 15:08:53
From: Guy Snape
Subject: Re: Grinder problems?
Danny wrote:
> Guy Snape wrote:
>> Two strange things happening with my grinder (Cunill tranquilo).
>> Firstly, the zero point where the burrs start to touch seems to vary
>> about 5 clicks in either direction from one session to the next.
>> Second, it takes a really long time to grind - I've not timed it but
>> it's easily a minute and maybe close to two minutes for 14 grams. I
>> only put 14g at a time in because my wife drinks decaf. Most of the
>> beans seem to grind in a reasonable time, but the last few just rattle
>> around for ages.
>>
>> Are either of these things normal? Do I need to take it apart and see
>> what's going on inside? I've only had it just over a year.
>>
>> Thanks for any help.
>>
>> - guy
>
> Using a (semi) commercial grinder with few beans in the hopper is not
> good for them. Grinders rely on gravity to get the beans through. You
> could try removing the guard (if present) and placing an object (tamper)
> on the beans to help them through. The grinder may be in need of a
> clean, and check the burrs whilst cleaning, although in domestic use the
> burrs should last years. I would expect the grinder to grind 14 grammes
> in as many seconds, or less. Try using more beans to check timimg.

Thanks Danny, I'll give that a try. Are there any other ways round the
caf/decaf problem without buying another grinder?

- guy

>


--
Remove the obvious to reply.