coffee-forum.net
Promoting coffee discussion.

Main
Date: 14 Jan 2007 15:00:18
From: Don Cavins
Subject: Hearthware Precision Replacement
My Hearthware Precision is no longer functioning. I am looking to
replace in the near future. I have a question for the roastmasters in the
group. If money were not a consideration what recommendation would you make
for a replacement? Considering ease of use, quality of finished product,
quality and durability of the roaster. Would you choose the Gene Cafe,
HotTop or I-Roast 2.

Thank You,

Don Cavins






 
Date: 25 Jan 2007 13:06:36
From: Steve Johnson
Subject: Re: Hearthware Precision Replacement
On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 15:00:18 -0600, "Don Cavins"
<dcavinsjr@wildblue.net > wrote:

> My Hearthware Precision is no longer functioning. I am looking to
>replace in the near future. I have a question for the roastmasters in the
>group.


1) wouldn't consider a "roastmaster" -- but have roasted at home for
about 5 years

2) Nesco roaster ( used to called Zach & Dani's )

this is what we use -- early adopter when initial design came out and
replaced with the product shown here :

http://www.nesco.com/products/?category=1000&id=315

We had a few Hearthware products before that -- it's easy to use and
very reliable for us.


 
Date: 15 Jan 2007 17:23:05
From:
Subject: Re: Hearthware Precision Replacement

I- >Ian wrote:
> <mrgnomer@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1168831156.054078.129640@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > I->Ian wrote:
> > > "Don Cavins" <dcavinsjr@wildblue.net> wrote in message
> > > news:IRwqh.4$xf2.113776@news.sisna.com...
> > > > My Hearthware Precision is no longer functioning. I am looking to
> > > > replace in the near future. I have a question for the roastmasters in
> the
> > > > group. If money were not a consideration what recommendation would
> you
> > > make
> > > > for a replacement? Considering ease of use, quality of finished
> product,
> > > > quality and durability of the roaster. Would you choose the Gene
> Cafe,
> > > > HotTop or I-Roast 2.
> > > >
> > > > Thank You,
> > > >
> > > > Don Cavins
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > IF the new profile model HotTop does what it claims, it could be a good
> > > choice if you want something adjustable.
> > >
> > > The other HotTops are well made, very repeatable, but just not
> particularly
> > > brilliant at roasting coffee. There is only one profile that offers
> > > adjustment only by changing bean load and insertion time. The time from
> > > first crack to second is short and not adjustable except by opening the
> > > chaff drawer and bean insertion cover slightly. This adjustment is
> rather
> > > imprecise. The units are relatively easy to hack into a manual roaster
> > > offering complete control of the roast. A bit more effort could add
> fully
> > > automated control.
> > >
> > > IMO, the iRoars are far too loud and the design horribly flawed in terms
> of
> > > ergonomics and repeatability.
> > >
> > > No GeneCafe experience.
> >
> > Don, I'm interested in a Hottop nad I gather you've had experience with
> > one. How long did you use one? You say it only offers one profile but
> > from what I've read on vendor sites and forums the analog has 7
> > settings from light to dark. Yes there's no control on either the
> > analog or digital for the roast profile but in my experience with an
> > iRoast2 I only use 5 of 10 possible programmed profiles and mostly
> > shoot for final stage temp with relationship to roast degree. What
> > happens before that doesn't matter much as long as the roast doesn't
> > stall. The best curve I've found is a steady upward ramp to a
> > finishing temp and I believe that's the profile curve of the Hottop.
>
> I've had my HotTop for over a year.
> As Randy said it's the same 'profile', you just control when it ends.
>
> [ICAC, I've been home roasting since the turn of the century. I have a
> hacked FR, modified my HWP for 8 'profiles' and used a Bravi, a couple of
> iRoars, Z&D]
>
> 'Profile' means the shape of the bean temperature ramp. 'End Point
> Temperature' is simply the degree of roast. You can vastly change the taste
> of coffee by how you get to the endpoint. The profile is important when
> trying to optimize the endpoint to the bean and to the brew method.
>
> >
> > You also say the Hottop roast is not particularily brilliant. What do
> > you mean by not brilliant and compared to what? Compared to a
> > professional artisan roaster? Compared to another brand of home
> > roaster? Compared to a commercial sample roaster? What roaster would
> > you recommend?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
>
> The HotTop makes darned good coffee compared to an iRoar, a Bravi or
> anything at the superket but only goes so far. The HotTop profile has a
> slow start, a flat spot in the middle and a fairly quick finish. It looks
> like the designers were trying to mimic a drum roast profile, but they are
> always a few minutes behind. You can get pretty close to the profile of a
> Diedrich IR-12 by using 200g, setting the roast for 21 minutes on the
> digital [or 7 on the original] and loading the beans at 7 minutes after the
> LOAD beep. Coffee roasted this way and consumed within a couple of days is
> pretty nice. After a few days, the coffee becomes pretty boring, especially
> as espresso.
>
> By brilliant, I mean with a bit more forethought, they could have blown the
> home roast ket wide open and put an end to the rampant endpoint
> mentality. IF the new roaster allows true profiles, then it may be
> brilliant.
>
> IMO, NO small batch home roaster can equal a large batch roaster in the
> hands of an artisan. The thermodynamics are just too different. OTOH, a
> small batch home roaster in the hands of an attentive amateur can blow the
> doors off any roaster in the hands of the typical 'specialty roaster' About
> 8 in 10 'specialty roasters' with whom I've discussed roasting equate
> profile with endpoint. When queried about 'drying ramp', 'push to first',
> 'degrees per minute after first', 'profile difference between espresso and
> drip roast', etc. all too often they respond with a 'deer in the headlights'
> stare and mumble 'Full City' or 'Vienna' or other twaddle. I've not
> encountered one who understands profiles who is unwilling to discuss them.
>
> >
> >
> > As well, with regards to the iRoast2 the only thing in the way of
> > consistent repeatablilty might be house voltage fluctuation affecting
> > the heating element draw which is a common problem with all fluid beds.
> > If your voltage source is at 110V+ and steady there's no reason why
> > the iRoast2 can't consistently repeat a roast given the same profile,
> > volume of beans and general environmental condition. Change any of
> > these variables on any roaster I'd imagine and you won't get the same
> > results with the same beans. I've had an iRoast2 for over a year with
> > over 300 roasts on it and have no problem consistently repeating roasts.
> >
>
> I'd probably challenge your definition of consistency:
>
> Mine is to have the coffee taste darned close identical from roast to roast,
> log the bean and environmental temperatures, plot a random sample of roasts
> and have the plots indistinguishably lie atop one another.
> I was able to achieve neither with the iRoars.
>
> IMO, the problem with the iRoar is the bean agitation is insufficient when
> the fan is on low. A small portion of the beans cycle around the shute and
> the remainder hang about at the edge of the chamber. There is a far greater
> color variation in the beans during a roast on an iRoar than on any other
> roaster I've used [where the beans are visisble].

Sorry Don, I meant to ask Ian.

Thanks for your reply, Ian.

Sounds like you're a much more serious roaster than me and it puts
perspective on your comments about the iRoast and Hottop. My
understanding of roasting profiles is currently limited to a general
knowledge of the roasting process and final stage roast degree. You've
given me something to think about and research. Thanks again.



  
Date: 15 Jan 2007 19:33:52
From: notbob
Subject: Re: Hearthware Precision Replacement
On 2007-01-16, mrgnomer@hotmail.com <mrgnomer@hotmail.com > wrote:

>
> Sorry Don, I meant to a........

Please trim your posts. You posted 100+ lines of needless text for a
dozen of your own. Thank you.

nb


   
Date: 15 Jan 2007 22:18:44
From:
Subject: Re: Hearthware Precision Replacement
On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 19:33:52 -0600, notbob <notbob@nothome.com > wrote:

>On 2007-01-16, mrgnomer@hotmail.com <mrgnomer@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Sorry Don, I meant to a........
>
>Please trim your posts. You posted 100+ lines of needless text for a
>dozen of your own. Thank you.
>
>nb

Which took, what?, all of seven-ten milliseconds?, to download.

Some people really need something, anything, to bitch about.
















_______________________________________
Please Note: If you find a posting or message from me
offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate.


    
Date: 16 Jan 2007 00:39:09
From: notbob
Subject: Re: Hearthware Precision Replacement
On 2007-01-16, Roque Ja <Roque > wrote:

> Which took, what?, all of seven-ten milliseconds?, to download.
>
> Some people really need something, anything, to bitch about.

Sounds suspiciously like you're bitching.

nb


 
Date: 14 Jan 2007 19:19:16
From:
Subject: Re: Hearthware Precision Replacement

I- >Ian wrote:
> "Don Cavins" <dcavinsjr@wildblue.net> wrote in message
> news:IRwqh.4$xf2.113776@news.sisna.com...
> > My Hearthware Precision is no longer functioning. I am looking to
> > replace in the near future. I have a question for the roastmasters in the
> > group. If money were not a consideration what recommendation would you
> make
> > for a replacement? Considering ease of use, quality of finished product,
> > quality and durability of the roaster. Would you choose the Gene Cafe,
> > HotTop or I-Roast 2.
> >
> > Thank You,
> >
> > Don Cavins
> >
> >
>
> IF the new profile model HotTop does what it claims, it could be a good
> choice if you want something adjustable.
>
> The other HotTops are well made, very repeatable, but just not particularly
> brilliant at roasting coffee. There is only one profile that offers
> adjustment only by changing bean load and insertion time. The time from
> first crack to second is short and not adjustable except by opening the
> chaff drawer and bean insertion cover slightly. This adjustment is rather
> imprecise. The units are relatively easy to hack into a manual roaster
> offering complete control of the roast. A bit more effort could add fully
> automated control.
>
> IMO, the iRoars are far too loud and the design horribly flawed in terms of
> ergonomics and repeatability.
>
> No GeneCafe experience.

Don, I'm interested in a Hottop nad I gather you've had experience with
one. How long did you use one? You say it only offers one profile but
from what I've read on vendor sites and forums the analog has 7
settings from light to dark. Yes there's no control on either the
analog or digital for the roast profile but in my experience with an
iRoast2 I only use 5 of 10 possible programmed profiles and mostly
shoot for final stage temp with relationship to roast degree. What
happens before that doesn't matter much as long as the roast doesn't
stall. The best curve I've found is a steady upward ramp to a
finishing temp and I believe that's the profile curve of the Hottop.

You also say the Hottop roast is not particularily brilliant. What do
you mean by not brilliant and compared to what? Compared to a
professional artisan roaster? Compared to another brand of home
roaster? Compared to a commercial sample roaster? What roaster would
you recommend?

Thanks



As well, with regards to the iRoast2 the only thing in the way of
consistent repeatablilty might be house voltage fluctuation affecting
the heating element draw which is a common problem with all fluid beds.
If your voltage source is at 110V+ and steady there's no reason why
the iRoast2 can't consistently repeat a roast given the same profile,
volume of beans and general environmental condition. Change any of
these variables on any roaster I'd imagine and you won't get the same
results with the same beans. I've had an iRoast2 for over a year with
over 300 roasts on it and have no problem consistently repeating roasts.



  
Date: 15 Jan 2007 11:24:36
From: I->Ian
Subject: Re: Hearthware Precision Replacement

<mrgnomer@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1168831156.054078.129640@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> I->Ian wrote:
> > "Don Cavins" <dcavinsjr@wildblue.net> wrote in message
> > news:IRwqh.4$xf2.113776@news.sisna.com...
> > > My Hearthware Precision is no longer functioning. I am looking to
> > > replace in the near future. I have a question for the roastmasters in
the
> > > group. If money were not a consideration what recommendation would
you
> > make
> > > for a replacement? Considering ease of use, quality of finished
product,
> > > quality and durability of the roaster. Would you choose the Gene
Cafe,
> > > HotTop or I-Roast 2.
> > >
> > > Thank You,
> > >
> > > Don Cavins
> > >
> > >
> >
> > IF the new profile model HotTop does what it claims, it could be a good
> > choice if you want something adjustable.
> >
> > The other HotTops are well made, very repeatable, but just not
particularly
> > brilliant at roasting coffee. There is only one profile that offers
> > adjustment only by changing bean load and insertion time. The time from
> > first crack to second is short and not adjustable except by opening the
> > chaff drawer and bean insertion cover slightly. This adjustment is
rather
> > imprecise. The units are relatively easy to hack into a manual roaster
> > offering complete control of the roast. A bit more effort could add
fully
> > automated control.
> >
> > IMO, the iRoars are far too loud and the design horribly flawed in terms
of
> > ergonomics and repeatability.
> >
> > No GeneCafe experience.
>
> Don, I'm interested in a Hottop nad I gather you've had experience with
> one. How long did you use one? You say it only offers one profile but
> from what I've read on vendor sites and forums the analog has 7
> settings from light to dark. Yes there's no control on either the
> analog or digital for the roast profile but in my experience with an
> iRoast2 I only use 5 of 10 possible programmed profiles and mostly
> shoot for final stage temp with relationship to roast degree. What
> happens before that doesn't matter much as long as the roast doesn't
> stall. The best curve I've found is a steady upward ramp to a
> finishing temp and I believe that's the profile curve of the Hottop.

I've had my HotTop for over a year.
As Randy said it's the same 'profile', you just control when it ends.

[ICAC, I've been home roasting since the turn of the century. I have a
hacked FR, modified my HWP for 8 'profiles' and used a Bravi, a couple of
iRoars, Z&D]

'Profile' means the shape of the bean temperature ramp. 'End Point
Temperature' is simply the degree of roast. You can vastly change the taste
of coffee by how you get to the endpoint. The profile is important when
trying to optimize the endpoint to the bean and to the brew method.

>
> You also say the Hottop roast is not particularily brilliant. What do
> you mean by not brilliant and compared to what? Compared to a
> professional artisan roaster? Compared to another brand of home
> roaster? Compared to a commercial sample roaster? What roaster would
> you recommend?
>
> Thanks
>

The HotTop makes darned good coffee compared to an iRoar, a Bravi or
anything at the superket but only goes so far. The HotTop profile has a
slow start, a flat spot in the middle and a fairly quick finish. It looks
like the designers were trying to mimic a drum roast profile, but they are
always a few minutes behind. You can get pretty close to the profile of a
Diedrich IR-12 by using 200g, setting the roast for 21 minutes on the
digital [or 7 on the original] and loading the beans at 7 minutes after the
LOAD beep. Coffee roasted this way and consumed within a couple of days is
pretty nice. After a few days, the coffee becomes pretty boring, especially
as espresso.

By brilliant, I mean with a bit more forethought, they could have blown the
home roast ket wide open and put an end to the rampant endpoint
mentality. IF the new roaster allows true profiles, then it may be
brilliant.

IMO, NO small batch home roaster can equal a large batch roaster in the
hands of an artisan. The thermodynamics are just too different. OTOH, a
small batch home roaster in the hands of an attentive amateur can blow the
doors off any roaster in the hands of the typical 'specialty roaster' About
8 in 10 'specialty roasters' with whom I've discussed roasting equate
profile with endpoint. When queried about 'drying ramp', 'push to first',
'degrees per minute after first', 'profile difference between espresso and
drip roast', etc. all too often they respond with a 'deer in the headlights'
stare and mumble 'Full City' or 'Vienna' or other twaddle. I've not
encountered one who understands profiles who is unwilling to discuss them.

>
>
> As well, with regards to the iRoast2 the only thing in the way of
> consistent repeatablilty might be house voltage fluctuation affecting
> the heating element draw which is a common problem with all fluid beds.
> If your voltage source is at 110V+ and steady there's no reason why
> the iRoast2 can't consistently repeat a roast given the same profile,
> volume of beans and general environmental condition. Change any of
> these variables on any roaster I'd imagine and you won't get the same
> results with the same beans. I've had an iRoast2 for over a year with
> over 300 roasts on it and have no problem consistently repeating roasts.
>

I'd probably challenge your definition of consistency:

Mine is to have the coffee taste darned close identical from roast to roast,
log the bean and environmental temperatures, plot a random sample of roasts
and have the plots indistinguishably lie atop one another.
I was able to achieve neither with the iRoars.

IMO, the problem with the iRoar is the bean agitation is insufficient when
the fan is on low. A small portion of the beans cycle around the shute and
the remainder hang about at the edge of the chamber. There is a far greater
color variation in the beans during a roast on an iRoar than on any other
roaster I've used [where the beans are visisble].




   
Date: 15 Jan 2007 15:21:36
From: Mike Hartigan
Subject: Re: Hearthware Precision Replacement
In article <45abd4f8$0$8974$4c368faf@roadrunner.com >,
someone@nowhere.com says...
>
> <mrgnomer@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1168831156.054078.129640@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > I->Ian wrote:
> > > "Don Cavins" <dcavinsjr@wildblue.net> wrote in message
> > > news:IRwqh.4$xf2.113776@news.sisna.com...
> > > > My Hearthware Precision is no longer functioning. I am looking to
> > > > replace in the near future. I have a question for the roastmasters in
> the
> > > > group. If money were not a consideration what recommendation would
> you
> > > make
> > > > for a replacement? Considering ease of use, quality of finished
> product,
> > > > quality and durability of the roaster. Would you choose the Gene
> Cafe,
> > > > HotTop or I-Roast 2.
> > > >
> > > > Thank You,
> > > >
> > > > Don Cavins
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > IF the new profile model HotTop does what it claims, it could be a good
> > > choice if you want something adjustable.
> > >
> > > The other HotTops are well made, very repeatable, but just not
> particularly
> > > brilliant at roasting coffee. There is only one profile that offers
> > > adjustment only by changing bean load and insertion time. The time from
> > > first crack to second is short and not adjustable except by opening the
> > > chaff drawer and bean insertion cover slightly. This adjustment is
> rather
> > > imprecise. The units are relatively easy to hack into a manual roaster
> > > offering complete control of the roast. A bit more effort could add
> fully
> > > automated control.
> > >
> > > IMO, the iRoars are far too loud and the design horribly flawed in terms
> of
> > > ergonomics and repeatability.
> > >
> > > No GeneCafe experience.
> >
> > Don, I'm interested in a Hottop nad I gather you've had experience with
> > one. How long did you use one? You say it only offers one profile but
> > from what I've read on vendor sites and forums the analog has 7
> > settings from light to dark. Yes there's no control on either the
> > analog or digital for the roast profile but in my experience with an
> > iRoast2 I only use 5 of 10 possible programmed profiles and mostly
> > shoot for final stage temp with relationship to roast degree. What
> > happens before that doesn't matter much as long as the roast doesn't
> > stall. The best curve I've found is a steady upward ramp to a
> > finishing temp and I believe that's the profile curve of the Hottop.
>
> I've had my HotTop for over a year.
> As Randy said it's the same 'profile', you just control when it ends.
>
> [ICAC, I've been home roasting since the turn of the century. I have a
> hacked FR, modified my HWP for 8 'profiles' and used a Bravi, a couple of
> iRoars, Z&D]
>
> 'Profile' means the shape of the bean temperature ramp. 'End Point
> Temperature' is simply the degree of roast. You can vastly change the taste
> of coffee by how you get to the endpoint. The profile is important when
> trying to optimize the endpoint to the bean and to the brew method.
>
> >
> > You also say the Hottop roast is not particularily brilliant. What do
> > you mean by not brilliant and compared to what? Compared to a
> > professional artisan roaster? Compared to another brand of home
> > roaster? Compared to a commercial sample roaster? What roaster would
> > you recommend?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
>
> The HotTop makes darned good coffee compared to an iRoar, a Bravi or
> anything at the superket but only goes so far. The HotTop profile has a
> slow start, a flat spot in the middle and a fairly quick finish. It looks
> like the designers were trying to mimic a drum roast profile, but they are
> always a few minutes behind. You can get pretty close to the profile of a
> Diedrich IR-12 by using 200g, setting the roast for 21 minutes on the
> digital [or 7 on the original] and loading the beans at 7 minutes after the
> LOAD beep. Coffee roasted this way and consumed within a couple of days is
> pretty nice. After a few days, the coffee becomes pretty boring, especially
> as espresso.
>
> By brilliant, I mean with a bit more forethought, they could have blown the
> home roast ket wide open and put an end to the rampant endpoint
> mentality. IF the new roaster allows true profiles, then it may be
> brilliant.
>
> IMO, NO small batch home roaster can equal a large batch roaster in the
> hands of an artisan. The thermodynamics are just too different. OTOH, a
> small batch home roaster in the hands of an attentive amateur can blow the
> doors off any roaster in the hands of the typical 'specialty roaster' About
> 8 in 10 'specialty roasters' with whom I've discussed roasting equate
> profile with endpoint. When queried about 'drying ramp', 'push to first',
> 'degrees per minute after first', 'profile difference between espresso and
> drip roast', etc. all too often they respond with a 'deer in the headlights'
> stare and mumble 'Full City' or 'Vienna' or other twaddle. I've not
> encountered one who understands profiles who is unwilling to discuss them.
>
> >
> >
> > As well, with regards to the iRoast2 the only thing in the way of
> > consistent repeatablilty might be house voltage fluctuation affecting
> > the heating element draw which is a common problem with all fluid beds.
> > If your voltage source is at 110V+ and steady there's no reason why
> > the iRoast2 can't consistently repeat a roast given the same profile,
> > volume of beans and general environmental condition. Change any of
> > these variables on any roaster I'd imagine and you won't get the same
> > results with the same beans. I've had an iRoast2 for over a year with
> > over 300 roasts on it and have no problem consistently repeating roasts.
> >
>
> I'd probably challenge your definition of consistency:
>
> Mine is to have the coffee taste darned close identical from roast to roast,
> log the bean and environmental temperatures, plot a random sample of roasts
> and have the plots indistinguishably lie atop one another.
> I was able to achieve neither with the iRoars.

With identical line voltage (using a variac) and damn close to the
same ambient temperature, I get damn close to identical results in
the cup from the same batch of green with my iRoast2. Given that my
temperature samples are repeatable from roast to roast, I would
expect this. Perhaps there is a variable that you're not adequately
controlling.

> IMO, the problem with the iRoar is the bean agitation is insufficient when
> the fan is on low. A small portion of the beans cycle around the shute and
> the remainder hang about at the edge of the chamber. There is a far greater
> color variation in the beans during a roast on an iRoar than on any other
> roaster I've used [where the beans are visisble].

Maybe I'm lucky in that my iRoast seems to run hot. This means that
I don't need to set the temperature high enough that it thinks it
needs to slow the fan down too much (the fan speed appears to be a
function of the programmed temperature rather than the actual
temperature). Agitation is fine with the two higher fan speeds.

--
-Mike


  
Date: 14 Jan 2007 22:24:40
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Hearthware Precision Replacement
mrgnomer@hotmail.com wrote:

>Don, I'm interested in a Hottop nad I gather you've had experience with
>one. How long did you use one? You say it only offers one profile but
>from what I've read on vendor sites and forums the analog has 7
>settings from light to dark.
>
The current versions of the Hottop do offer only one profile that is
cut off by time, or stopped by the user. Of course, there are things
you can do like start the roaster and add the beans later than the
machine tells you to shorten the roasting time.

I am currently testing the new "KN-8828P" programmable model. it does
offer some control over the roasting profile. I am still testing the
amount of that control, but with overnight temperature here in the
teens, and a high today of about 48F (the warmest in abut four or five
days), it isn't easy to roast out of doors with any control.

In the past I have used a HWP, a Gourmet, and an iRoast2. The air
roasters generally roast fast, and depending on how you like your
coffee, that can be a good thing or a bad thing.

Of course, I am talking about all these in their unmodified state.
Depending on how much you want to spend, there are all sorts of things
you can do, all the way to just getting a BBQ and buying a drum for
it. I saw a stainless steel BBQ at Xt today for $400 that could
hold a five pound-capacity drum without difficulty.

>
>You also say the Hottop roast is not particularily brilliant. What do
>you mean by not brilliant and compared to what? Compared to a
>professional artisan roaster? Compared to another brand of home
>roaster? Compared to a commercial sample roaster? What roaster would
>you recommend?
>
I have been roasting for four years now with Hottops, and have given
away many pounds of coffee (beyond what I have consumed), and everyone
clamors for more, even when I use sweep. But if you are use to
drinking F****** or store-bin coffee, most anything fresh would be
superior. The iRoast2 does a nice job of offering the user a good
level of control, and the program is quite flexible. Using a
thermocouple to read bean temperature and graphing the results against
the program, it does not take long to develop profiles that suit your
tastes. Air roasters, bytes their own nature, are not generally
long-lived appliances. They are relatively affordable, though. The
other drawback is their limited batch size. Since you know how to
roast, the iRoast2 would do, but for someone starting out, their noise
level nearly eliminates hearing second crack.


Randy
"All typos blamed on the thrift store keyboard I bought today"
G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com




  
Date: 15 Jan 2007 00:17:46
From: Don Cavins
Subject: Re: Hearthware Precision Replacement
I believe you really meant this for Ian not Don as Don is the one seeking
advice and Ian was the responder.

Don

<mrgnomer@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1168831156.054078.129640@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> I->Ian wrote:
>> "Don Cavins" <dcavinsjr@wildblue.net> wrote in message
>> news:IRwqh.4$xf2.113776@news.sisna.com...
>> > My Hearthware Precision is no longer functioning. I am looking to
>> > replace in the near future. I have a question for the roastmasters in
>> > the
>> > group. If money were not a consideration what recommendation would you
>> make
>> > for a replacement? Considering ease of use, quality of finished
>> > product,
>> > quality and durability of the roaster. Would you choose the Gene Cafe,
>> > HotTop or I-Roast 2.
>> >
>> > Thank You,
>> >
>> > Don Cavins
>> >
>> >
>>
>> IF the new profile model HotTop does what it claims, it could be a good
>> choice if you want something adjustable.
>>
>> The other HotTops are well made, very repeatable, but just not
>> particularly
>> brilliant at roasting coffee. There is only one profile that offers
>> adjustment only by changing bean load and insertion time. The time from
>> first crack to second is short and not adjustable except by opening the
>> chaff drawer and bean insertion cover slightly. This adjustment is rather
>> imprecise. The units are relatively easy to hack into a manual roaster
>> offering complete control of the roast. A bit more effort could add fully
>> automated control.
>>
>> IMO, the iRoars are far too loud and the design horribly flawed in terms
>> of
>> ergonomics and repeatability.
>>
>> No GeneCafe experience.
>
> Don, I'm interested in a Hottop nad I gather you've had experience with
> one. How long did you use one? You say it only offers one profile but
> from what I've read on vendor sites and forums the analog has 7
> settings from light to dark. Yes there's no control on either the
> analog or digital for the roast profile but in my experience with an
> iRoast2 I only use 5 of 10 possible programmed profiles and mostly
> shoot for final stage temp with relationship to roast degree. What
> happens before that doesn't matter much as long as the roast doesn't
> stall. The best curve I've found is a steady upward ramp to a
> finishing temp and I believe that's the profile curve of the Hottop.
>
> You also say the Hottop roast is not particularily brilliant. What do
> you mean by not brilliant and compared to what? Compared to a
> professional artisan roaster? Compared to another brand of home
> roaster? Compared to a commercial sample roaster? What roaster would
> you recommend?
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> As well, with regards to the iRoast2 the only thing in the way of
> consistent repeatablilty might be house voltage fluctuation affecting
> the heating element draw which is a common problem with all fluid beds.
> If your voltage source is at 110V+ and steady there's no reason why
> the iRoast2 can't consistently repeat a roast given the same profile,
> volume of beans and general environmental condition. Change any of
> these variables on any roaster I'd imagine and you won't get the same
> results with the same beans. I've had an iRoast2 for over a year with
> over 300 roasts on it and have no problem consistently repeating roasts.
>




  
Date: 14 Jan 2007 19:27:03
From: Cordovero
Subject: Re: Hearthware Precision Replacement
In case you haven't seen it already, you might want to check out
http://www.sweetias.com/roastercomparisonchart.html

I myself have an I-Roast 1 with an I-Roast 2 in the mail at the moment. If
I had the money, though, I would avoid air roasting and go for the GeneCafe
or possibly the Hottop. If I had a gas bbq (and I don't), then I'd
definitely go for a bbq setup (you can get one professionally made for
around $200 or so, if memory serves -- I can find the URL, or you can just
ask on coffeegeek.com's roasting forum.

C




 
Date: 14 Jan 2007 15:49:47
From: I->Ian
Subject: Re: Hearthware Precision Replacement

"Don Cavins" <dcavinsjr@wildblue.net > wrote in message
news:IRwqh.4$xf2.113776@news.sisna.com...
> My Hearthware Precision is no longer functioning. I am looking to
> replace in the near future. I have a question for the roastmasters in the
> group. If money were not a consideration what recommendation would you
make
> for a replacement? Considering ease of use, quality of finished product,
> quality and durability of the roaster. Would you choose the Gene Cafe,
> HotTop or I-Roast 2.
>
> Thank You,
>
> Don Cavins
>
>

IF the new profile model HotTop does what it claims, it could be a good
choice if you want something adjustable.

The other HotTops are well made, very repeatable, but just not particularly
brilliant at roasting coffee. There is only one profile that offers
adjustment only by changing bean load and insertion time. The time from
first crack to second is short and not adjustable except by opening the
chaff drawer and bean insertion cover slightly. This adjustment is rather
imprecise. The units are relatively easy to hack into a manual roaster
offering complete control of the roast. A bit more effort could add fully
automated control.

IMO, the iRoars are far too loud and the design horribly flawed in terms of
ergonomics and repeatability.

No GeneCafe experience.




 
Date: 14 Jan 2007 14:02:48
From:
Subject: Re: Hearthware Precision Replacement

Don Cavins wrote:
> My Hearthware Precision is no longer functioning. I am looking to
> replace in the near future. I have a question for the roastmasters in the
> group. If money were not a consideration what recommendation would you make
> for a replacement? Considering ease of use, quality of finished product,
> quality and durability of the roaster. Would you choose the Gene Cafe,
> HotTop or I-Roast 2.
>
> Thank You,
>
> Don Cavins

Are you looking for another fluid bed roaster or a better roaster?
Owners of RK drum roasters, the ones you fit onto your BBQ with a
rotisserie, rave about them. The roast is apparently high quality and
if you want to roast for sale or for family it's got a generous batch
size.

Next for commercial quality roasts is the Hottop. Hottop owners
typically say the only step up is an RK drum, modded Hottop or a
commercial sample roaster. Hottop supposedly is coming out with a
fully programmable roast profile model at the end of this month but
it's going to be twice as much as the analog.

These roasters are radiant heat drum roasters noted for their long deep
charactered roasts. For espresso and personally I prefer radiant heat
drum roasts to fluid bed.

Next, although it's owners might disagree, is the Gene Cafe: a
drum/fluid bed hybrid. Hot air is forced into the chamber, making it a
fluid bed type roaster but it's spinning drum circulates the beans like
a drum roaster. Batch sizes are higher and the Gene Cafe offers
profile control while roasting, if I remember correctly, making it a
good roaster to step up to.

Lastly the least expensive are the fluid bed roasters. From the
smallest batch size I know with the FreshRoast to the Cafe Rosto,
iRoast 2, Zach and Dani's roaster they're more like popcorn poppers
for coffee beans. You can even use a popcorn popper. Typically the
batch sizes are small and while the roast character can be more even
than a drum the taste is much brighter. You won't get the deep
character of a drum roast with a fluid bed.

I've had an iRoast2 for over a year now and it's served me very well.
I'm seriously looking at a Hottop as an upgrade.