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Date: 29 Jan 2007 14:54:44
From:
Subject: Help a newbie dial in new Carezza/Tranquilo
I decided to buy a Carezza and Cunill Tranquilo based on reviews here
and elsewhere as my espresso starter kit. I dialed in the grinder to
find the zero point and started grinding Black Cat at about 11 clicks
from zero. I've now gone through a whole lb of the stuff and I don't
think I'm any closer to drinkable espresso than when I started.

My main question is about the dose. The booklet says 2 tbsp (black
scoops) for a double, but some posts suggest filling the Gaggia 58 mm
portafilter over the brim and then leveling which would be about 4
tbsp (scoops).

For me, 2 tbsp was producing pretty bitter shots in a 27 sec pour with
little crema (over-extracted?). 4 tbsps/full pf was producing tons of
crema in the 27 sec, but an intensely sour/acid taste (under-
extraction?)

3 tbsp dose with a 30 lb tamp isn't extremely bitter or sour, but has
hints of both. I also find it difficult to get any kind of even
distribution with a dose that is less than the full pf because it is
difficult to level. I'm using a rattleware 58mm tamper.

Can anyone who has experience with the machine or grinder give me any
pointers as to how to proceed from here? Thanks in advance for your
help.





 
Date: 31 Jan 2007 14:03:42
From:
Subject: Re: Help a newbie dial in new Carezza/Tranquilo
On Jan 31, 11:28 am, Danny <d...@nospam.gaggia-espresso.com > wrote:
> hoytnes...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Jan 31, 6:10 am, Danny <d...@nospam.gaggia-espresso.com> wrote:
>
> >>hoytnes...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >>>another morning, another 1/2 lb of beans and little success. I'm
> >>>using store bought beans until my new shipment of Black Cat comes in.
> >>>They are the espresso blend form Whole Foods (Allegro) that were
> >>>"filled" 2 days ago.
>
> >>>Here is my process. Maybe this will help diagnose any problems.
>
> >>-snip lengthy process-
>
> >>Far too much process - you'll be bogged down in minute detail soon :)
>
> >>Can't you dose into the pf diectly? Do this fairly quickly to keep
> >>the pf hot. Don't worry about weighing, just slightly overfill and
> >>slice off excess for now. Wht the NSEW tamp - don't you have a decent
> >>fitting tamper? If it a reasonably close fit, then just tamp once
> >>with resonable pressure then a lighter polishing tamp. Lock and go.
>
> >>You are now producing ristretto, so I'd back the grind off a notch or
> >>so. Slight blonding of the stream is OK in my book, but not others.
> >>You should maybe see a lighter blob in your crema at the end when you
> >>kill the shot, but to be truthful this is slightly too long.
>
> >>--
> >>Regards, Danny
>
> >>http://www.gaggia-espresso.com(apurely hobby site)http://www.malabargold.co.uk(UK/EUordering for Malabar Gold blend)
>
> > Haha, I think I'm getting my terminology mixed up. What I meant to
> > say is that when scraping the excess grinds off the top I scrape from
> > the top, bottom, left and right to make sure the voids get filled in.
> > I have a 58mm tamper.
>
> > I'll try dosing into the portafilter and coarsening up the grind a
> > little. I tried this the other day and got sour shots, but that was
> > before I realized that the pf needs to stay hot. I was rinsing it out
> > with cold tap water which probably caused major temp differences and
> > lead to a sour taste.
>
> > Thanks again for everyone's input! I've got another lb of beans
> > coming in today for some more testing.
>
> Keep everything in the espresso path as hot as possible. Removing the
> pf for 30 seconds to grind and tamp is fine, but never use a cold pf.
>
> Just use a hooked finger to slice off the excess and then tamp.
>
> --
> Regards, Danny
>
> http://www.gaggia-espresso.com(a purely hobby site)http://www.malabargold.co.uk(UK/EU ordering for Malabar Gold blend)

Hey, I think all of my practice and everyone's help is starting to pay
off! I got my shipment of Black Cat today and the first shot was a
1.5 oz ristretto with about 1/2 an inch of crema. I am now tasting
the chocolate notes that this blend is known for. It wasn't overly
bitter or sour and no lingering harsh aftertaste. I removed the pour
spout and saw that I was getting a nice single stream with lots of
stripes as seen in the naked pf videos.

For the record (mainly mine) this was 10 clicks, 17 g, 25 lb tamp and
33 sec. Now I can start narrowing it down with small adjustments to
grind, dose, and tamp pressure.

I now think my main problem was letting the portafilter get cold
sitting on the counter while I futzed with grinding, dosing,
distributing, and tamping. This produced a sour tasting shot.

Thanks again for everyone's help and patience! I think i'm on the
road to good espresso.




 
Date: 31 Jan 2007 12:38:52
From:
Subject: Re: Help a newbie dial in new Carezza/Tranquilo
On Jan 31, 11:28 am, Danny <d...@nospam.gaggia-espresso.com > wrote:
> hoytnes...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Jan 31, 6:10 am, Danny <d...@nospam.gaggia-espresso.com> wrote:
>
> >>hoytnes...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >>>another morning, another 1/2 lb of beans and little success. I'm
> >>>using store bought beans until my new shipment of Black Cat comes in.
> >>>They are the espresso blend form Whole Foods (Allegro) that were
> >>>"filled" 2 days ago.
>
> >>>Here is my process. Maybe this will help diagnose any problems.
>
> >>-snip lengthy process-
>
> >>Far too much process - you'll be bogged down in minute detail soon :)
>
> >>Can't you dose into the pf diectly? Do this fairly quickly to keep
> >>the pf hot. Don't worry about weighing, just slightly overfill and
> >>slice off excess for now. Wht the NSEW tamp - don't you have a decent
> >>fitting tamper? If it a reasonably close fit, then just tamp once
> >>with resonable pressure then a lighter polishing tamp. Lock and go.
>
> >>You are now producing ristretto, so I'd back the grind off a notch or
> >>so. Slight blonding of the stream is OK in my book, but not others.
> >>You should maybe see a lighter blob in your crema at the end when you
> >>kill the shot, but to be truthful this is slightly too long.
>
> >>--
> >>Regards, Danny
>
> >>http://www.gaggia-espresso.com(apurely hobby site)http://www.malabargold.co.uk(UK/EUordering for Malabar Gold blend)
>
> > Haha, I think I'm getting my terminology mixed up. What I meant to
> > say is that when scraping the excess grinds off the top I scrape from
> > the top, bottom, left and right to make sure the voids get filled in.
> > I have a 58mm tamper.
>
> > I'll try dosing into the portafilter and coarsening up the grind a
> > little. I tried this the other day and got sour shots, but that was
> > before I realized that the pf needs to stay hot. I was rinsing it out
> > with cold tap water which probably caused major temp differences and
> > lead to a sour taste.
>
> > Thanks again for everyone's input! I've got another lb of beans
> > coming in today for some more testing.
>
> Keep everything in the espresso path as hot as possible. Removing the
> pf for 30 seconds to grind and tamp is fine, but never use a cold pf.
>
> Just use a hooked finger to slice off the excess and then tamp.
>
> --
> Regards, Danny
>
> http://www.gaggia-espresso.com(a purely hobby site)http://www.malabargold.co.uk(UK/EU ordering for Malabar Gold blend)


wow, i think my practice and everyone's help is starting to pay off.
My Black Cat came in today and my first shot was about 1.5 oz
ristretto at 33 sec at 10 clicks and 25 lb tamp with a good half inch
of crema. I'm tasting the chocolate notes that this blend is known
for and it wasn't overly sour or bitter. No harsh lingering
aftertaste. I removed the divider spout and got a good centered pour
that had lots of "striping" in it.

I think I'm on my way to good espresso. Thanks again everyone!!

I think my main problem was letting the portafilter cool way down
while I futzed around with grinding/dosing/distributing etc. This
gave the shot a very sour taste.



 
Date: 31 Jan 2007 12:36:52
From:
Subject: Re: Help a newbie dial in new Carezza/Tranquilo
On Jan 31, 11:28 am, Danny <d...@nospam.gaggia-espresso.com > wrote:
> hoytnes...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Jan 31, 6:10 am, Danny <d...@nospam.gaggia-espresso.com> wrote:
>
> >>hoytnes...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >>>another morning, another 1/2 lb of beans and little success. I'm
> >>>using store bought beans until my new shipment of Black Cat comes in.
> >>>They are the espresso blend form Whole Foods (Allegro) that were
> >>>"filled" 2 days ago.
>
> >>>Here is my process. Maybe this will help diagnose any problems.
>
> >>-snip lengthy process-
>
> >>Far too much process - you'll be bogged down in minute detail soon :)
>
> >>Can't you dose into the pf diectly? Do this fairly quickly to keep
> >>the pf hot. Don't worry about weighing, just slightly overfill and
> >>slice off excess for now. Wht the NSEW tamp - don't you have a decent
> >>fitting tamper? If it a reasonably close fit, then just tamp once
> >>with resonable pressure then a lighter polishing tamp. Lock and go.
>
> >>You are now producing ristretto, so I'd back the grind off a notch or
> >>so. Slight blonding of the stream is OK in my book, but not others.
> >>You should maybe see a lighter blob in your crema at the end when you
> >>kill the shot, but to be truthful this is slightly too long.
>
> >>--
> >>Regards, Danny
>
> >>http://www.gaggia-espresso.com(apurely hobby site)http://www.malabargold.co.uk(UK/EUordering for Malabar Gold blend)
>
> > Haha, I think I'm getting my terminology mixed up. What I meant to
> > say is that when scraping the excess grinds off the top I scrape from
> > the top, bottom, left and right to make sure the voids get filled in.
> > I have a 58mm tamper.
>
> > I'll try dosing into the portafilter and coarsening up the grind a
> > little. I tried this the other day and got sour shots, but that was
> > before I realized that the pf needs to stay hot. I was rinsing it out
> > with cold tap water which probably caused major temp differences and
> > lead to a sour taste.
>
> > Thanks again for everyone's input! I've got another lb of beans
> > coming in today for some more testing.
>
> Keep everything in the espresso path as hot as possible. Removing the
> pf for 30 seconds to grind and tamp is fine, but never use a cold pf.
>
> Just use a hooked finger to slice off the excess and then tamp.
>
> --
> Regards, Danny
>
> http://www.gaggia-espresso.com(a purely hobby site)http://www.malabargold.co.uk(UK/EU ordering for Malabar Gold blend)

wow, i think my practice and everyone's help is starting to pay off.
My Black Cat came in today and my first shot was about 1.5 oz
ristretto at 33 sec at 10 clicks and 25 lb tamp with a good half inch
of crema. I'm tasting the chocolate notes that this blend is known
for and it wasn't overly sour or bitter. No harsh lingering
aftertaste. I removed the divider spout and got a good centered pour
that had lots of "striping" in it.

I think I'm on my way to good espresso. Thanks again everyone!!

I think my main problem was letting the portafilter cool way down
while I futzed around with grinding/dosing/distributing etc. This
gave the shot a very sour taste.



 
Date: 31 Jan 2007 06:45:59
From:
Subject: Re: Help a newbie dial in new Carezza/Tranquilo
Thanks Hazzmat, I will be using your dosing technique once I can get
somewhat close to the golden rule. When looking at the timer dial I
have it turned almost all of the way to the right and I can just
barely get 16g with 2 button presses. My post was not very clear in
that regard.

I'm also now using the WDT method to get better distribution.

Thanks again for everyone's input. Hopefully all of this info will
serve as a great guide for future Tranquilo and Carezza owners!




 
Date: 31 Jan 2007 06:30:51
From:
Subject: Re: Help a newbie dial in new Carezza/Tranquilo
On Jan 31, 6:10 am, Danny <d...@nospam.gaggia-espresso.com > wrote:
> hoytnes...@gmail.com wrote:
> > another morning, another 1/2 lb of beans and little success. I'm
> > using store bought beans until my new shipment of Black Cat comes in.
> > They are the espresso blend form Whole Foods (Allegro) that were
> > "filled" 2 days ago.
>
> > Here is my process. Maybe this will help diagnose any problems.
>
> -snip lengthy process-
>
> Far too much process - you'll be bogged down in minute detail soon :)
>
> Can't you dose into the pf diectly? Do this fairly quickly to keep
> the pf hot. Don't worry about weighing, just slightly overfill and
> slice off excess for now. Wht the NSEW tamp - don't you have a decent
> fitting tamper? If it a reasonably close fit, then just tamp once
> with resonable pressure then a lighter polishing tamp. Lock and go.
>
> You are now producing ristretto, so I'd back the grind off a notch or
> so. Slight blonding of the stream is OK in my book, but not others.
> You should maybe see a lighter blob in your crema at the end when you
> kill the shot, but to be truthful this is slightly too long.
>
> --
> Regards, Danny
>
> http://www.gaggia-espresso.com(a purely hobby site)http://www.malabargold.co.uk(UK/EU ordering for Malabar Gold blend)

Haha, I think I'm getting my terminology mixed up. What I meant to
say is that when scraping the excess grinds off the top I scrape from
the top, bottom, left and right to make sure the voids get filled in.
I have a 58mm tamper.

I'll try dosing into the portafilter and coarsening up the grind a
little. I tried this the other day and got sour shots, but that was
before I realized that the pf needs to stay hot. I was rinsing it out
with cold tap water which probably caused major temp differences and
lead to a sour taste.

Thanks again for everyone's input! I've got another lb of beans
coming in today for some more testing.



  
Date: 31 Jan 2007 17:28:59
From: Danny
Subject: Re: Help a newbie dial in new Carezza/Tranquilo
hoytness72@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jan 31, 6:10 am, Danny <d...@nospam.gaggia-espresso.com> wrote:
>
>>hoytnes...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>another morning, another 1/2 lb of beans and little success. I'm
>>>using store bought beans until my new shipment of Black Cat comes in.
>>>They are the espresso blend form Whole Foods (Allegro) that were
>>>"filled" 2 days ago.
>>
>>>Here is my process. Maybe this will help diagnose any problems.
>>
>>-snip lengthy process-
>>
>>Far too much process - you'll be bogged down in minute detail soon :)
>>
>>Can't you dose into the pf diectly? Do this fairly quickly to keep
>>the pf hot. Don't worry about weighing, just slightly overfill and
>>slice off excess for now. Wht the NSEW tamp - don't you have a decent
>>fitting tamper? If it a reasonably close fit, then just tamp once
>>with resonable pressure then a lighter polishing tamp. Lock and go.
>>
>>You are now producing ristretto, so I'd back the grind off a notch or
>>so. Slight blonding of the stream is OK in my book, but not others.
>>You should maybe see a lighter blob in your crema at the end when you
>>kill the shot, but to be truthful this is slightly too long.
>>
>>--
>>Regards, Danny
>>
>>http://www.gaggia-espresso.com(a purely hobby site)http://www.malabargold.co.uk(UK/EU ordering for Malabar Gold blend)
>
>
> Haha, I think I'm getting my terminology mixed up. What I meant to
> say is that when scraping the excess grinds off the top I scrape from
> the top, bottom, left and right to make sure the voids get filled in.
> I have a 58mm tamper.
>
> I'll try dosing into the portafilter and coarsening up the grind a
> little. I tried this the other day and got sour shots, but that was
> before I realized that the pf needs to stay hot. I was rinsing it out
> with cold tap water which probably caused major temp differences and
> lead to a sour taste.
>
> Thanks again for everyone's input! I've got another lb of beans
> coming in today for some more testing.
>

Keep everything in the espresso path as hot as possible. Removing the
pf for 30 seconds to grind and tamp is fine, but never use a cold pf.

Just use a hooked finger to slice off the excess and then tamp.

--
Regards, Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
http://www.malabargold.co.uk (UK/EU ordering for Malabar Gold blend)



 
Date: 30 Jan 2007 13:21:53
From:
Subject: Re: Help a newbie dial in new Carezza/Tranquilo
Ok, I think I'll add a rap on the funnel to my dose. Another issue I
am having is that with the timer set all the way to the right
(longest) I am barely able to get a full 16g with the grinder set on 8
clicks.

Also, I am also only getting about 1.5 oz in ~33 sec after using the
WDT method to distribute the grounds and a light tamp (< 10 lbs). On
a setting of 5 clicks and no tamp it pretty much just chokes. Should I
try a smaller dose or perhaps a coarser grind? Could Cunill have
changed the grinder's gearing so that the newer model grinds finer?
Maybe this Carezza has a bad pump? Thanks for all your help!




  
Date: 31 Jan 2007 14:32:03
From: Brent
Subject: Re: cliff heller
> However, having been made in public, there were other motives at work. As
> Bernie said, real cowboys (alties) don't make a show of themselves.

but sometimes redemption needs to be public...

and we didn't want Victoria swimming in gaskets - we know Dave has it under
control, is capable, and it's taken care of.




 
Date: 30 Jan 2007 11:27:38
From:
Subject: Re: Help a newbie dial in new Carezza/Tranquilo
Thanks! I will be giving this a try. One question, I noticed that
after a grind I can tap the grind collector and a couple more grams
come out. Should I figure this into the dose or leave it out?




  
Date: 30 Jan 2007 15:31:18
From: hazzmat
Subject: Re: Help a newbie dial in new Carezza/Tranquilo
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 11:27:38 -0800, hoytness72 wrote:

> Thanks! I will be giving this a try. One question, I noticed that
> after a grind I can tap the grind collector and a couple more grams
> come out. Should I figure this into the dose or leave it out?

A fine point!
Whether you include the stickies in the funnel depends on how you feel
about losing that coffee. I used to give the funnel a soft ding with my
tamper on its slope to shake those grinds loose, and that amount had to be
calculated into the timer setting. However, I'm not sure that it's
always worth doing that since the really fine particles tend to float out
of the stream of grinds and collect in there--some normal sized ones stick
on the side too. You may not want those finer ones in your basket. If you
notice A LOT of coffee collecting on sides -even though the funnel started
the day clean- then you might want to give a gentle knock on the funnel as
part of the dosing routine. I'm grinding about 3 doubles a day on average
and the build up isn't so much. When you're trying to dial in the grinder
of course, you are grinding a lot more than 3 doubles. My current practice
with the Tranquilo is to fish out the small amount of coffee that sits on
the ledge of the chute after 2 button presses--and this brings the total
in my La zocco double basket to 17 grams, +/- some fraction of a gram
less than a half. I leave the Klingons in the funnel and remove them with
the hose of my shopvac every night. Any ledge sitters in the chute are
also encouraged to jump at that time. Like any surface exposed to coffee,
the Tranquilo funnel will acquire slighly more stickiness over time from
coffee oils. It also may behave differently according to atmospheric
conditions and the varying oiliness of the beans used with it. What you do
about that is up to you and your spiritual advisor. You are quite
correct that one does need to keep an eye on what's going on in there. If
a lot of coffee is sticking in there, your spiritual advisor would
probably tell you to incorporate that in your thinking and measuring if
only for the sake of thrift.

Another fine point that I didn't want to clutter up my outline with is
that the weight of the beans pressing down in the hopper affects how fast
they are fed into the mill to some degree. When you get down to the last
one or two doses' worth, the accuracy of the timer as a doser
definitely goes to hell. If the doser is tuned to 8g, then only 7something
comes out the last press or two--I mean before the last press or two
before it absolutely runs out of beans. So since the fullness of
the hopper affects the reliability of the doser we have to monitor the
hopper and keep it filled to some range of fullness. In everyday practice
you'd want to keep almost all your coffee in the airtight container(s)
probably and put only what you think you need for the morning or day in
the grinder's hopper. I doubt I ever fill the hopper above the lower edge
of the bean guard--that cone directly above the feed hole to the burrs.
When you're dialing in though, you expect to need a lot of beans and so
the tendency is to pour in the whole pound bag or half. That might not
match up to the way you would use the grinder in daily routine. To make
experiments with the doser more reliable you might want to pick a daily
"fill" line in the hopper which would reflect how you anticipate using
the grinder, and fill it no further than that, topping it up back to the
fill line as you go, every few trials, certainly before the bean level
drops down the neck of the hopper.

--
Get Big Brother out of my email to reply.


   
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Date: 30 Jan 2007 09:53:13
From:
Subject: Re: Help a newbie dial in new Carezza/Tranquilo
another morning, another 1/2 lb of beans and little success. I'm
using store bought beans until my new shipment of Black Cat comes in.
They are the espresso blend form Whole Foods (Allegro) that were
"filled" 2 days ago.

Here is my process. Maybe this will help diagnose any problems.

Turn on machine and brew at the same time to fill up a 2.5 ounce cup
ensuring the boiler is full.
Wait 6 or so min and pull a blank shot into small espresso glass.
Grinder set to 9 clicks above zero.
Grind into a measuring scoop and spoon into a small styrofoam cup on a
Salton digital scale until it reads 17g.
Remove hot pf from machine and pour grounds into pf from cup.
Scape off remainder going NSEW to fill in voids
Put pf on a bathroom scale sitting on a counter using an oven mit to
help cushion and distribute pressure.
Set tamper on top of grounds and lightly tamp until level
Tamp to 30 lbs. Polish a half turn with no pressure.
Brew

My preinfusion time is around 10 sec till the first drops hit the
cup. Around 30 sec I'm getting around 1.5-1.75 oz. The predominant
taste is usually sour. I've tried going up to 10 clicks and a 20 lb
tamp and I'm getting the same volume, but the blonding occurs sooner.
Taste is somewhat bitter, but still has a sour quality also.
Certainly not creamy or sweet at all and I can't really distinguish
this blend from Black Cat. Maybe a 1/4" of crema that is
persistent.

My conclusions:

Before today I was using 2-3 tbsps as my dose. Now I am weighing it
to 17g's which ends up being more (~4 or 5 tbsp). I am also measuring
my tamp on a scale at 30 lb which ended up being more than I was using
before today. The result is less coffee in 30 sec than I was getting
previously. It no longer falls into the 2 ounces in 20-25 sec range.
More like 1.75 in 33 sec.

Being new to this, I'm also having trouble figuring out when blonding
actually occurs. When I pull the cup out I notice that the crema is
slightly discolored a lighter shade where the last part of the stream
went in.

Thanks for reading if you made it this far. I figured too much info
is better than too little. At this point I'm tempted to start blaming
the machine or the inaccuracy of the scales, but I'm determined to
keep plodding ahead. Sometimes my tamp ends up being a little unlevel
so I'll focus on that.



  
Date: 31 Jan 2007 12:10:43
From: Danny
Subject: Re: Help a newbie dial in new Carezza/Tranquilo
hoytness72@gmail.com wrote:
> another morning, another 1/2 lb of beans and little success. I'm
> using store bought beans until my new shipment of Black Cat comes in.
> They are the espresso blend form Whole Foods (Allegro) that were
> "filled" 2 days ago.
>
> Here is my process. Maybe this will help diagnose any problems.
>
-snip lengthy process-

Far too much process - you'll be bogged down in minute detail soon :)

Can't you dose into the pf diectly? Do this fairly quickly to keep
the pf hot. Don't worry about weighing, just slightly overfill and
slice off excess for now. Wht the NSEW tamp - don't you have a decent
fitting tamper? If it a reasonably close fit, then just tamp once
with resonable pressure then a lighter polishing tamp. Lock and go.

You are now producing ristretto, so I'd back the grind off a notch or
so. Slight blonding of the stream is OK in my book, but not others.
You should maybe see a lighter blob in your crema at the end when you
kill the shot, but to be truthful this is slightly too long.




--
Regards, Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
http://www.malabargold.co.uk (UK/EU ordering for Malabar Gold blend)



  
Date: 30 Jan 2007 14:18:19
From: Sportflyer
Subject: Re: Help a newbie dial in new Carezza/Tranquilo
As a newbe myself , I think the one variable that we newbies need to learn
is to know when to stop the shot.Unfortunately this is the one variable that
cannot be measured . Most of the time I think we stop the shot too late
resulting in "bitter " taste .

<hoytness72@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1170179593.504255.179170@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> another morning, another 1/2 lb of beans and little success. I'm
> using store bought beans until my new shipment of Black Cat comes in.
> They are the espresso blend form Whole Foods (Allegro) that were
> "filled" 2 days ago.
>
> Here is my process. Maybe this will help diagnose any problems.
>
> Turn on machine and brew at the same time to fill up a 2.5 ounce cup
> ensuring the boiler is full.
> Wait 6 or so min and pull a blank shot into small espresso glass.
> Grinder set to 9 clicks above zero.
> Grind into a measuring scoop and spoon into a small styrofoam cup on a
> Salton digital scale until it reads 17g.
> Remove hot pf from machine and pour grounds into pf from cup.
> Scape off remainder going NSEW to fill in voids
> Put pf on a bathroom scale sitting on a counter using an oven mit to
> help cushion and distribute pressure.
> Set tamper on top of grounds and lightly tamp until level
> Tamp to 30 lbs. Polish a half turn with no pressure.
> Brew
>
> My preinfusion time is around 10 sec till the first drops hit the
> cup. Around 30 sec I'm getting around 1.5-1.75 oz. The predominant
> taste is usually sour. I've tried going up to 10 clicks and a 20 lb
> tamp and I'm getting the same volume, but the blonding occurs sooner.
> Taste is somewhat bitter, but still has a sour quality also.
> Certainly not creamy or sweet at all and I can't really distinguish
> this blend from Black Cat. Maybe a 1/4" of crema that is
> persistent.
>
> My conclusions:
>
> Before today I was using 2-3 tbsps as my dose. Now I am weighing it
> to 17g's which ends up being more (~4 or 5 tbsp). I am also measuring
> my tamp on a scale at 30 lb which ended up being more than I was using
> before today. The result is less coffee in 30 sec than I was getting
> previously. It no longer falls into the 2 ounces in 20-25 sec range.
> More like 1.75 in 33 sec.
>
> Being new to this, I'm also having trouble figuring out when blonding
> actually occurs. When I pull the cup out I notice that the crema is
> slightly discolored a lighter shade where the last part of the stream
> went in.
>
> Thanks for reading if you made it this far. I figured too much info
> is better than too little. At this point I'm tempted to start blaming
> the machine or the inaccuracy of the scales, but I'm determined to
> keep plodding ahead. Sometimes my tamp ends up being a little unlevel
> so I'll focus on that.
>




 
Date: 30 Jan 2007 06:21:33
From:
Subject: Re: Help a newbie dial in new Carezza/Tranquilo
thanks for your responses! I did the styrofoam cup test yesterday
with a warmed up analog thermometer and the temp spiked at a tiny bit
above 200 so I think I'm ok there.

I have some more Black Cat on order and I bought some local beans to
test with. I'll keep playing around with dosing, distributing and
tamping. I think my dose was too small and my tamp not strong
enough.

I still don't know why I was getting such sour shots yesterday. I
noticed that there were some stray grounds trapped around the edge of
the group in the slot where the pf locks in. Maybe these grounds
prevented the pf and group from sealing well? Can this cause a sour
flavor or am I reaching here?



  
Date: 30 Jan 2007 17:00:30
From: Danny
Subject: Re: Help a newbie dial in new Carezza/Tranquilo
hoytness72@gmail.com wrote:
> thanks for your responses! I did the styrofoam cup test yesterday
> with a warmed up analog thermometer and the temp spiked at a tiny bit
> above 200 so I think I'm ok there.
>
> I have some more Black Cat on order and I bought some local beans to
> test with. I'll keep playing around with dosing, distributing and
> tamping. I think my dose was too small and my tamp not strong
> enough.
>
> I still don't know why I was getting such sour shots yesterday. I
> noticed that there were some stray grounds trapped around the edge of
> the group in the slot where the pf locks in. Maybe these grounds
> prevented the pf and group from sealing well? Can this cause a sour
> flavor or am I reaching here?
>

Sour is different to different people. so I'll ignore that at the moment.

Make sure the machine is hot, thats the important bit. Load the pf to
the brim, then slice off the excess with your finger. Tamp - any
pressure will do, but not too hard. Ensure no stray grounds are on
the pf lip or ears. Loack and pull the shot - it is really that easy
to start with. With fresh-ish beans you should get a creamy double in
25 seconds or so, with a good head of crema. Gaggia's are forgiving,
but you just need to excercise a little care with dosing and tamp.

--
Regards, Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
http://www.malabargold.co.uk (UK/EU ordering for Malabar Gold blend)



 
Date: 30 Jan 2007 06:21:28
From: Danny
Subject: Re: Help a newbie dial in new Carezza/Tranquilo
hoytness72@gmail.com wrote:
> I decided to buy a Carezza and Cunill Tranquilo based on reviews here
> and elsewhere as my espresso starter kit. I dialed in the grinder to
> find the zero point and started grinding Black Cat at about 11 clicks
> from zero. I've now gone through a whole lb of the stuff and I don't
> think I'm any closer to drinkable espresso than when I started.
>
> My main question is about the dose. The booklet says 2 tbsp (black
> scoops) for a double, but some posts suggest filling the Gaggia 58 mm
> portafilter over the brim and then leveling which would be about 4
> tbsp (scoops).
>
> For me, 2 tbsp was producing pretty bitter shots in a 27 sec pour with
> little crema (over-extracted?). 4 tbsps/full pf was producing tons of
> crema in the 27 sec, but an intensely sour/acid taste (under-
> extraction?)
>
> 3 tbsp dose with a 30 lb tamp isn't extremely bitter or sour, but has
> hints of both. I also find it difficult to get any kind of even
> distribution with a dose that is less than the full pf because it is
> difficult to level. I'm using a rattleware 58mm tamper.
>
> Can anyone who has experience with the machine or grinder give me any
> pointers as to how to proceed from here? Thanks in advance for your
> help.
>

There are no special tricks to dialling in the grinder. With it
switched off, find your zero point by adjusting the grinder until the
burrs touch, then back off the grind about 6-8 notches and try that
setting. Ignore the spoon. Fill the portafilter until full (about 14
grammes for a full sized double portafilter).

Let your machine warm up thoroughly before use, and pull some water
through the group to help it heat up. Gaggia's are fast at heating up
anyway, so you should be able to pull shots after 6 minutes or so.

Try a shot at the above setting. If it stalls (little or no liquid
exits the spouts) then try a few notches coarser until a double is
achieved in 20-30 seconds (2fl oz liquid). If pour is too fast,
adjust a notch or two finer to achieve same.

Ensure your beans are fresh.

Have fun!


--
Regards, Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
http://www.malabargold.co.uk (UK/EU ordering for Malabar Gold blend)



 
Date: 29 Jan 2007 21:13:37
From: Cordovero
Subject: Re: Help a newbie dial in new Carezza/Tranquilo
I think you want to do the leveling trick you mentioned: fill the
portafilter entirely with a little extra hill on top, and then swipe off the
excess with a finger or something like that. Then tamp.

Then vary your grind until you get a double in 25 seconds.

You're not using the single basket are you? Throw that thing away and make
sure you're using the double basket. Just checking.


Also, do you have an electronic thermometer? At some point you might want
to do the styrofoam cup trick to check the temp of the water coming out of
the boiler.
C




 
Date: 29 Jan 2007 16:52:11
From:
Subject: Re: Help a newbie dial in new Carezza/Tranquilo
nope, but i can get one if needed.



  
Date:
From:
Subject:


 
Date: 29 Jan 2007 16:30:19
From:
Subject: Re: Help a newbie dial in new Carezza/Tranquilo
Yes, it is the doserless model with a timer to control dose. Any
advice you could give me on dosing and tamping would be much
appreciated.



  
Date: 29 Jan 2007 16:52:54
From: I->Ian
Subject: Re: First timer: should I try single origin first or jump straight to blends?
On 27 Jan 2007 08:13:51 -0800, robgct@gmail.com wrote:

>I'm very new to espresso and home roasting. I actually just got into
>it about 2-4 weeks ago. That said, I have a Silvia/Rocky coming soon
>and decided I also wanted to jump in and roast my own to ensure my
>beans are fresh (given that there's no local roasters). So I plan on
>ordering a Hearthware iRoast 2, but I'm having trouble deciding on
>which green beans to purchase.
>
>Given that I've never actually *tried* any single origin or blends out
>there, do you think it is ster to purchase a bunch of single
>origins from somewhere like Sweet ia's or CoffeeWholesalers and see
>how they taste individually to get an idea of how that particular
>region (i.e: Kenya, Brazil, Ethiopia, etc) is, and then look into
>blending a couple of the single origins I tested into something
>"more"? OR would it be wise to purchase a blend such as Malabar Gold,
>Monkey, or Moka Kadir which I know is good (I know it's subjective,
>but the majority seem to like them)? Part of me likes the blend
>method because this way if I don't like the taste than I can eliminate
>the variable of it being the beans and contribute it to my lack of
>roasting experience, whereas if I did it with a single origin I
>wouldn't be sure probably if it's just the bean or how I roasted
>them. But another part of me wouldn't mind testing out single origins
>to get a feel for how they taste.
>
>What do you think? If you could even give suggestions on which single
>origins or blends to go with (whatever answer you decide), that would
>be helpful as well as there is a lot out there and as I said, I'm
>pretty much clueless as to how they are.
>
>Rob

Roasting and Espresso are two independant skills. Unless you are
expert at the first, the second will suffer greatly.

I cannot recommend getting a sampler for home roasting as the
quantities are too small to be of any use. Many of the posts about the
magic of a first home roast confuse fresh with quality.

For a neophyte, it is sage advice to use a consistent high quality
bean to develop your espresso technique. The fly in the ointment is
finding a blend you enjoy and that is consistent. Some of the highly
regarded here are less than savory to some palates.

To develop your roasting skills buy a reasonable quantity of a quality
bean like La Minita and learn how various roasting parameters affect
the bean. NOTE : La Minita is recommended because it is usually always
available and consistent and responds predictably. More esoteric beans
can be more difficult.

Once you understand roasting, you are ready to purchase several types
and start learning all over again. Then you can start again on
learning blending, both pre and post roast.

Once your espresso techique is tolerable, you're ready to try roasting
a bean for espresso. Be prepared to dump a lot of coffee as home
roasted coffee responds differently to professionally roasted.

Keep copious notes and write back in 5 or 6 years and let us know how
it's going.


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com



  
Date:
From:
Subject:


 
Date: 29 Jan 2007 23:52:16
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: Whose Beans are you using for your espresso? Why?
On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 16:45:06 -0600, North Sullivan
<northwrites@bluebottle.com > wrote:

>I'm amazed that my diedrich keeps on ticking; I'm very grateful to
>have it.


btw, did you know the prior owner passed away recently?



  
Date: 29 Jan 2007 19:04:58
From: North Sullivan
Subject: Re: Whose Beans are you using for your espresso? Why?
On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 23:52:16 GMT, Barry Jarrett
<barry@rileys-coffee.com > wrote:

>On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 16:45:06 -0600, North Sullivan
><northwrites@bluebottle.com> wrote:
>
> >I'm amazed that my diedrich keeps on ticking; I'm very grateful to
> >have it.
>
>
>btw, did you know the prior owner passed away recently?

No, I'm sorry to hear that. An Illinois roaster who stopped in the
shop sometime back had mentioned that his health was not good.

North Sullivan