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Date: 20 Dec 2006 23:08:04
From: sportflyer
Subject: Help me decide on a grinder
Currently I am using a Gaggia Carezza and would like to get a grinder
to go with it. I trying to decide on one of the following:

Innova

Pavoni PGC

Cunill Tranquillo

Gaggia MDF


They are listed in no particular order and priced similarly .

I have read a lot of the posts in this group and every machine listed
above seems to have some shortcoming of some sort. Is there a clear
winner in this group of machines ? I am grinding almost exclusively for
Espresso , Lattes etc.


Thanks





 
Date: 21 Dec 2006 12:58:46
From: DavidMLewis
Subject: Re: Help me decide on a grinder

mattw wrote:
> It has been so long since I priced the Rocky/MDF/etc. I didn't realize
> there was a huge difference.
>
> Is 70+ steps standard with the Rocky? I ask because I was using a
> friends one day and we both agreed that a half-step would have been
> nice.
>
The last time I measured a Rocky, which admittedly was a while ago, the
burr carrier had 90 detent positions per revolution and the thread had
a 1.25 mm pitch, which works out to a change in burr spacing of 14
microns per detent. With some blends, notably things like Malabar Gold
that require grinding extremely close to the zero point because of the
fracture mechanics of the beans, I regularly find myself changing the
spacing by three microns or so as the beans age. So I'd agree that for
a grinder to be used almost exclusively for espresso, a stepless design
is a plus. That said, stepless by itself isn't enough: you also have to
have a burr carrier without a whole lot of slop in it. Stepless doesn't
do you much good if you can't come back to a given setting.

Best,
David



  
Date: 22 Dec 2006 12:31:11
From: Craig Andrews
Subject: Re: Help me decide on a grinder

"DavidMLewis" <DavidMLewis@mac.com > wrote in message
news:1166734725.945593.7850@42g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
>
> mattw wrote:
>> It has been so long since I priced the Rocky/MDF/etc. I didn't
>> realize
>> there was a huge difference.
>>
>> Is 70+ steps standard with the Rocky? I ask because I was using a
>> friends one day and we both agreed that a half-step would have been
>> nice.
>>
> The last time I measured a Rocky, which admittedly was a while ago,
> the
> burr carrier had 90 detent positions per revolution and the thread had
> a 1.25 mm pitch, which works out to a change in burr spacing of 14
> microns per detent. With some blends, notably things like Malabar Gold
> that require grinding extremely close to the zero point because of the
> fracture mechanics of the beans, I regularly find myself changing the
> spacing by three microns or so as the beans age. So I'd agree that for
> a grinder to be used almost exclusively for espresso, a stepless
> design
> is a plus. That said, stepless by itself isn't enough: you also have
> to
> have a burr carrier without a whole lot of slop in it. Stepless
> doesn't
> do you much good if you can't come back to a given setting.
>
> Best,
> David
>

I did some measurements on the Rocky's play in the upper burr carrier &
lower receiver housing that you may find interesting!
http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/machines/145521#145521
Craig.



 
Date: 21 Dec 2006 08:43:03
From: mattw
Subject: Re: Help me decide on a grinder
It has been so long since I priced the Rocky/MDF/etc. I didn't realize
there was a huge difference.

Is 70+ steps standard with the Rocky? I ask because I was using a
friends one day and we both agreed that a half-step would have been
nice.

-mw

Mike Hartigan wrote:
> Given enough steps, step vs stepless shouldn't be a major
> consideration. My Rocky, for example, has 70+ steps, so, while I
> haven't timed the difference between 10 and 11, the difference in
> taste is close enough that I don't feel limited. And it goes nicely
> with my Carezza :-) Nevertheless, both the Quickmill and the Rocky
> are a bit out of sportflyer's stated price range. Since I got the
> Rocky, I really haven't spent time looking at the alternatives.
>



  
Date: 21 Dec 2006 13:45:13
From: Mike Hartigan
Subject: Re: Help me decide on a grinder
In article <1166719383.901443.122080@a3g2000cwd.googlegroups.com >,
matthewgwells@gmail.com says...
> It has been so long since I priced the Rocky/MDF/etc. I didn't realize
> there was a huge difference.
>
> Is 70+ steps standard with the Rocky? I ask because I was using a
> friends one day and we both agreed that a half-step would have been
> nice.

I just counted. Mine does 72, not counting zero, (the blades touch
at zero, so I can't see the point in trying to grind beans there).
The stop at 72 feels a bit tenuous, so I suspect that this might vary
a few clicks either way on different units.

> -mw
>
> Mike Hartigan wrote:
> > Given enough steps, step vs stepless shouldn't be a major
> > consideration. My Rocky, for example, has 70+ steps, so, while I
> > haven't timed the difference between 10 and 11, the difference in
> > taste is close enough that I don't feel limited. And it goes nicely
> > with my Carezza :-) Nevertheless, both the Quickmill and the Rocky
> > are a bit out of sportflyer's stated price range. Since I got the
> > Rocky, I really haven't spent time looking at the alternatives.
> >
>
>

--
-Mike


 
Date: 21 Dec 2006 08:50:45
From: Harry Moos
Subject: Re: Help me decide on a grinder
I recommend the MDF. Mine is two years old and works great. The Rocky has
more steps, and there are times when that would be a benefit. But it is a
step up in price. It will be my next purchase, but there is nothing wrong
with the MDF until that time. BTW, I use it only for espresso; I have
another grinder for drip, press, and vacuum.

"sportflyer" <mode1flyer@netzero.net > wrote in message
news:1166684884.169828.85510@42g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
> Currently I am using a Gaggia Carezza and would like to get a grinder
> to go with it. I trying to decide on one of the following:
>
> Innova
>
> Pavoni PGC
>
> Cunill Tranquillo
>
> Gaggia MDF
>
>
> They are listed in no particular order and priced similarly .
>
> I have read a lot of the posts in this group and every machine listed
> above seems to have some shortcoming of some sort. Is there a clear
> winner in this group of machines ? I am grinding almost exclusively for
> Espresso , Lattes etc.
>
>
> Thanks
>




  
Date: 22 Dec 2006 08:41:24
From: Sportflyer
Subject: Re: Help me decide on a grinder
Of the 4 I mentioned above, Innova and Pavoni are stepless. Are these any
good or it's a waste of time and I should really save the $ and go for
either the Rocky or Quickmill so I dont have to upgrade for quite a while.
Tks


"Harry Moos" <harrym@ruraltel.net > wrote in message
news:PPOdneNEWISiAhfYnZ2dnUVZ_oernZ2d@news.ruraltel.net...
>I recommend the MDF. Mine is two years old and works great. The Rocky has
>more steps, and there are times when that would be a benefit. But it is a
>step up in price. It will be my next purchase, but there is nothing wrong
>with the MDF until that time. BTW, I use it only for espresso; I have
>another grinder for drip, press, and vacuum.
>
> "sportflyer" <mode1flyer@netzero.net> wrote in message
> news:1166684884.169828.85510@42g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
>> Currently I am using a Gaggia Carezza and would like to get a grinder
>> to go with it. I trying to decide on one of the following:
>>
>> Innova
>>
>> Pavoni PGC
>>
>> Cunill Tranquillo
>>
>> Gaggia MDF
>>
>>
>> They are listed in no particular order and priced similarly .
>>
>> I have read a lot of the posts in this group and every machine listed
>> above seems to have some shortcoming of some sort. Is there a clear
>> winner in this group of machines ? I am grinding almost exclusively for
>> Espresso , Lattes etc.
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>
>




   
Date: 23 Dec 2006 12:03:37
From: Danny
Subject: Re: Help me decide on a grinder
Sportflyer wrote:
> Of the 4 I mentioned above, Innova and Pavoni are stepless. Are these any
> good or it's a waste of time and I should really save the $ and go for
> either the Rocky or Quickmill so I dont have to upgrade for quite a while.
> Tks

You've hit the nail on the head, unfortunately. The grinder is more
important than the espresso machine, and a wise choice now (even if it
means more outlay) will save you in the long run. A good grinder will
outlast many espresso machine upgrades and should be regarded as an
investment. Be careful, though, since you only "almost exclusively"
grind for espresso - good espresso grinders are superb at espresso,
but can be a pain to alternate between espresso fineness and the
coarser requirements of drip etc - you'd be advised to use a 2nd
cheaper grinder for other brewing.

I can't comment on many grinders, since I firmly believe that a
commercial grinder (even 2nd hand) is the way forward if you have the
space, but having said that, if you can spend more then many grinders
that are superior to even a Rocky are a good investment - Mazzer etc.


--
Regards, Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
http://www.malabargold.co.uk (UK/EU ordering for Malabar Gold blend)



    
Date: 23 Dec 2006 08:26:28
From: Mike Hartigan
Subject: Re: Help me decide on a grinder
In article <4v4k6tF19ub6bU1@mid.individual.net >, danny@nospam.gaggia-
espresso.com says...
> Sportflyer wrote:
> > Of the 4 I mentioned above, Innova and Pavoni are stepless. Are these any
> > good or it's a waste of time and I should really save the $ and go for
> > either the Rocky or Quickmill so I dont have to upgrade for quite a while.
> > Tks
>
> You've hit the nail on the head, unfortunately. The grinder is more
> important than the espresso machine, and a wise choice now (even if it
> means more outlay) will save you in the long run. A good grinder will
> outlast many espresso machine upgrades and should be regarded as an
> investment.

Indeed! I got my Rocky shortly after I got my Carezza. The grinder
cost just a bit under twice the price of the brewer, but I didn't
think twice about it. I think of the Rocky as a life long purchase,
while I'm already thinking of the Carezza's eventual replacement a
few years down the road. It's not that I'm dissatisfied with it, I
just want to stay current on what's out there.

> [...]

--
-Mike


     
Date: 23 Dec 2006 09:20:23
From: Sportflyer
Subject: Re: Help me decide on a grinder
So , it looks like I need to get either the Rocky or Quickmill ? Have you
guys seen the Roma Doserless at Vaneli's ? Any comments .

"Mike Hartigan" <mike@hartigan.dot.com > wrote in message
news:MPG.1ff6f88b7ea2363e9898e0@newsgroups.comcast.net...
> In article <4v4k6tF19ub6bU1@mid.individual.net>, danny@nospam.gaggia-
> espresso.com says...
>> Sportflyer wrote:
>> > Of the 4 I mentioned above, Innova and Pavoni are stepless. Are these
>> > any
>> > good or it's a waste of time and I should really save the $ and go for
>> > either the Rocky or Quickmill so I dont have to upgrade for quite a
>> > while.
>> > Tks
>>
>> You've hit the nail on the head, unfortunately. The grinder is more
>> important than the espresso machine, and a wise choice now (even if it
>> means more outlay) will save you in the long run. A good grinder will
>> outlast many espresso machine upgrades and should be regarded as an
>> investment.
>
> Indeed! I got my Rocky shortly after I got my Carezza. The grinder
> cost just a bit under twice the price of the brewer, but I didn't
> think twice about it. I think of the Rocky as a life long purchase,
> while I'm already thinking of the Carezza's eventual replacement a
> few years down the road. It's not that I'm dissatisfied with it, I
> just want to stay current on what's out there.
>
>> [...]
>
> --
> -Mike




 
Date: 21 Dec 2006 05:30:13
From: mattw
Subject: Re: Help me decide on a grinder
Grinding exclusively for espresso, you (ideally) want a stepless
grinder. The only one I know of in that price range is the new
Quickmill (I have no affiliation with ChrisCoffee, etc.) -
http://www.chriscoffee.com/products/home/grinders/quickmillgrinder

It has the possibility of being an awesome grinder, but I have never
used it. With a stepped grinder you may have 10 sec. worth of flow
rate difference between steps (I know, I have been there) while a
stepless can have an almost imperceptible difference (limited only by
how steady your hands are at making adjustments). For espresso,
stepless is the way to go and the quickmill is the only thing I know of
in that price range.

My .02
/mw

sportflyer wrote:
> Currently I am using a Gaggia Carezza and would like to get a grinder
> to go with it. I trying to decide on one of the following:
>
> Innova
>
> Pavoni PGC
>
> Cunill Tranquillo
>
> Gaggia MDF
>
>
> They are listed in no particular order and priced similarly .
>
> I have read a lot of the posts in this group and every machine listed
> above seems to have some shortcoming of some sort. Is there a clear
> winner in this group of machines ? I am grinding almost exclusively for
> Espresso , Lattes etc.
>
>
> Thanks



  
Date: 21 Dec 2006 08:29:13
From: Mike Hartigan
Subject: Re: Help me decide on a grinder
Given enough steps, step vs stepless shouldn't be a major
consideration. My Rocky, for example, has 70+ steps, so, while I
haven't timed the difference between 10 and 11, the difference in
taste is close enough that I don't feel limited. And it goes nicely
with my Carezza :-) Nevertheless, both the Quickmill and the Rocky
are a bit out of sportflyer's stated price range. Since I got the
Rocky, I really haven't spent time looking at the alternatives.

In article <1166707813.773210.295380@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com >,
matthewgwells@gmail.com says...
> Grinding exclusively for espresso, you (ideally) want a stepless
> grinder. The only one I know of in that price range is the new
> Quickmill (I have no affiliation with ChrisCoffee, etc.) -
> http://www.chriscoffee.com/products/home/grinders/quickmillgrinder
>
> It has the possibility of being an awesome grinder, but I have never
> used it. With a stepped grinder you may have 10 sec. worth of flow
> rate difference between steps (I know, I have been there) while a
> stepless can have an almost imperceptible difference (limited only by
> how steady your hands are at making adjustments). For espresso,
> stepless is the way to go and the quickmill is the only thing I know of
> in that price range.
>
> My .02
> /mw
>
> sportflyer wrote:
> > Currently I am using a Gaggia Carezza and would like to get a grinder
> > to go with it. I trying to decide on one of the following:
> >
> > Innova
> >
> > Pavoni PGC
> >
> > Cunill Tranquillo
> >
> > Gaggia MDF
> >
> >
> > They are listed in no particular order and priced similarly .
> >
> > I have read a lot of the posts in this group and every machine listed
> > above seems to have some shortcoming of some sort. Is there a clear
> > winner in this group of machines ? I am grinding almost exclusively for
> > Espresso , Lattes etc.
> >
> >
> > Thanks
>
>

--
-Mike