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Date: 20 Sep 2006 22:03:20
From: Beano
Subject: Help me decide on what machine to buy
Hi,

I have just thrown my old espresso machine out. It was leaking more
water than it was pumping into my cup.

I would now like to get a new one. I like a good tasting coffee made
from espresso shot but mostly I like milk drinks. I would like a
gaggia or something nice and classy, but they are expensive and all the
reviews out on the internet are confusing me. Besides classy and good
brand, I mainly have 2 criteria - I want a machine that can pump out at
least one cup of coffee without me having to stop the pump to allow the
water to heat up again. Even better if it could do 2 cups! I also
want one with a brass boiler (I've heard they keep the water stream
hotter for longer and don't corrode like aluminium/brass combo's).

Any recommendations for a machine I can get in Australia? My budget is
about AU$200





 
Date: 23 Sep 2006 10:02:13
From: Flasherly
Subject: Re: Help me decide on what machine to buy
anthony wrote:
> >
> > Here's a $3 to $4000 blurb from one construction site (Magester
> > machines) - brass being secondary to thermal considerations. Way I'm
> > reading - three amalgamate assembly, with a core copper implementation
> > based upon factoring longevity.
>
>
> My botticelli uses a copper boiler instead of brass. My Pavoni Pro is
> solid-brass. But I suspect that in a domestic setting, there'd be no
> real difference between the two in terms of longetivity.
> Since you're in Australia, and have a limited budget, why not
> investigate the Sunbeam range? The preferred machine, which you should
> find in a moment with an Australian google, has a thermoblock instead
> of a boiler, but I've read that it gets around the aluminium problem by
> having the heat-transfer channels lined with stainless-steel.
>
> Also check out http://coffeesnobs.com.au from time to time for some
> great secondhand deals on quality equipment. Note there's no 'www' in
> that address. It's a great Australian source for green beans, too.

Got mine, listed for a stainless steel boiler, opened it up (good 'ol
ebay broken item) and had to fix a leak in the head routing. Noticed
then it's an aluminium block, so likely a SS lined boiler. Googled a
third or less retail pricing - what common drip brewers cost. But I
drink coffee with my milk, too. Like a cat, so I'm on the fastidious
side about machine care and cleaning. Took a chance with two 5lb. bags
light roasted from Latin America and Africa at less than half the
normal web pricings. Already drank about a pound or two of the Latin
American beans over the past couple weeks. A nice stumble two months
ago from a steam unit's inefficiency channeling through french grounds,
to adding a plate grinder for finer grounds (more unacceptable
results), and from there buying an Italian designed espresso unit.
Tastes great - but wouldn't mind trying a known taste within standards
for culinary grade preparation someday, too.



 
Date: 22 Sep 2006 22:46:22
From: anthony
Subject: Re: Help me decide on what machine to buy

>
> Here's a $3 to $4000 blurb from one construction site (Magester
> machines) - brass being secondary to thermal considerations. Way I'm
> reading - three amalgamate assembly, with a core copper implementation
> based upon factoring longevity.


My botticelli uses a copper boiler instead of brass. My Pavoni Pro is
solid-brass. But I suspect that in a domestic setting, there'd be no
real difference between the two in terms of longetivity.

Since you're in Australia, and have a limited budget, why not
investigate the Sunbeam range? The preferred machine, which you should
find in a moment with an Australian google, has a thermoblock instead
of a boiler, but I've read that it gets around the aluminium problem by
having the heat-transfer channels lined with stainless-steel.

Also check out http://coffeesnobs.com.au from time to time for some
great secondhand deals on quality equipment. Note there's no 'www' in
that address. It's a great Australian source for green beans, too.



 
Date: 22 Sep 2006 09:50:41
From: Flasherly
Subject: Re: Help me decide on what machine to buy

foosh wrote:
> Harry Moos wrote:
> > Everyone will direct you to the Rancilio Silvia, which is perhaps beyond ...
> > But the brass boiler knocks out most of the less expensive machines.
>
> What are the benefits to having a brass boiler? Better heat retention?
> (i.e., takes longer to heat to temp, but once there, stays there
> better)

Here's a $3 to $4000 blurb from one construction site (Magester
machines) - brass being secondary to thermal considerations. Way I'm
reading - three amalgamate assembly, with a core copper implementation
based upon factoring longevity.

"There is no thicker boiler than Magister's 1.5mm design. The boiler is
made of copper, which is a flexible alloy that can expand without
cracking, as opposed to much less expensive material such as stainless
steel or aluminum. The boiler is sealed with brass, which is the best
metal to contain the heat and keep it in a thermal balance. Magister
uses the highest quality of brass to seal its boilers. Hygienically,
the Magister boiler is very safe because it is fully coated with a
nickel alloy NSF approved material. External and internal coating of
the boiler prevents any water from making contact with the copper. Most
of our competition does not coat their boilers."



 
Date: 21 Sep 2006 20:32:01
From: Beano
Subject: Re: Help me decide on what machine to buy

foosh wrote:
> Harry Moos wrote:
> > Everyone will direct you to the Rancilio Silvia, which is perhaps beyond ...
> > But the brass boiler knocks out most of the less expensive machines.
>
> What are the benefits to having a brass boiler? Better heat retention?
> (i.e., takes longer to heat to temp, but once there, stays there
> better)

I don't know - I just wanted brass boiler because you hear about the
gaggia having a combination brass and aluminium boiler, which when
water goes through it results in a sort of "battery" like action which
corrodes the aluminium. The brass will remain untouched because of
it's better (? higher? lower?) redox value. I can't remember high
school chemistry anymore.

Ok, so they don't sell Rancilio at any of my shops, and gaggia they
only have the classic, which is too much for me. So I spent a bit more
out of my budget and got a Saeco Via Venezia - I'm hoping I haven't
totally bought a dud machine! I like the look, and the speed. My
first cup of coffee was ok, but I suspect I burnt the coffee (my fault
for being too slow) and also I think I didn't put the group head on
tight enough for fear I would break it - so coffee overflowed out the
top of the group head thingy instead of out the bottom!

I'll see how it goes tomorrow morning.



 
Date: 21 Sep 2006 18:40:41
From: foosh
Subject: Re: Help me decide on what machine to buy
Harry Moos wrote:
> Everyone will direct you to the Rancilio Silvia, which is perhaps beyond ...
> But the brass boiler knocks out most of the less expensive machines.

What are the benefits to having a brass boiler? Better heat retention?
(i.e., takes longer to heat to temp, but once there, stays there
better)



 
Date: 21 Sep 2006 16:26:53
From:
Subject: Re: Help me decide on what machine to buy


> Harry Moos wrote:
> > Everyone will direct you to the Rancilio Silvia, which is perhaps beyond
> > your budget unless you find a good used one. But the brass boiler knocks
> > out most of the less expensive machines. My Gaggia Coffee would be in your
> > price range and meet your other requirements, but it has an aluminum boiler.
Out of interest how long is the expected life of the Gaggia aluminium
boiler. I've heard figures as low as 2, but would hope more ~5.
assuming filtered water, 2 double shots/day on avg.



  
Date: 22 Sep 2006 00:40:58
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Help me decide on what machine to buy
Anything can be killed at a young age if it's neglected.

I've worked on a 20 year old Coffee with a spotless boiler & a three YO
Classic completely plugged up. "IF" they're descaled regularly (I do my
Espresso once a month) they'll probably outlast you.

CW says the important three are, in order of importance, good beans, good
grinder, & the machine itself. I'll amend that to be maintenance, beans,
grinder, machine. Ask any grunt from Viet Nam & he'll tell you PM probably
saved more lives than heroics ever did!
--
Robert (easier to maintain 'em than fix 'em) Harmon
http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
http://tinyurl.com/psfob
http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r

<nigel.l.jones@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1158881213.460827.181730@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>> Harry Moos wrote:
>> > Everyone will direct you to the Rancilio Silvia, which is perhaps
>> > beyond
>> > your budget unless you find a good used one. But the brass boiler
>> > knocks
>> > out most of the less expensive machines. My Gaggia Coffee would be in
>> > your
>> > price range and meet your other requirements, but it has an aluminum
>> > boiler.
> Out of interest how long is the expected life of the Gaggia aluminium
> boiler. I've heard figures as low as 2, but would hope more ~5.
> assuming filtered water, 2 double shots/day on avg.
>




 
Date: 21 Sep 2006 14:14:35
From: Beano
Subject: Re: Help me decide on what machine to buy
Thanks Harry!

Harry Moos wrote:
> Everyone will direct you to the Rancilio Silvia, which is perhaps beyond
> your budget unless you find a good used one. But the brass boiler knocks
> out most of the less expensive machines. My Gaggia Coffee would be in your
> price range and meet your other requirements, but it has an aluminum boiler.
> There are some machines with stainless steel boilers, but they probably
> won't brew two shots without a rest between them.
>
> "Beano" <s370782@student.uq.edu.au> wrote in message
> news:1158815000.070084.292920@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have just thrown my old espresso machine out. It was leaking more
> > water than it was pumping into my cup.
> >
> > I would now like to get a new one. I like a good tasting coffee made
> > from espresso shot but mostly I like milk drinks. I would like a
> > gaggia or something nice and classy, but they are expensive and all the
> > reviews out on the internet are confusing me. Besides classy and good
> > brand, I mainly have 2 criteria - I want a machine that can pump out at
> > least one cup of coffee without me having to stop the pump to allow the
> > water to heat up again. Even better if it could do 2 cups! I also
> > want one with a brass boiler (I've heard they keep the water stream
> > hotter for longer and don't corrode like aluminium/brass combo's).
> >
> > Any recommendations for a machine I can get in Australia? My budget is
> > about AU$200
> >



 
Date: 21 Sep 2006 08:46:18
From: Harry Moos
Subject: Re: Help me decide on what machine to buy
Everyone will direct you to the Rancilio Silvia, which is perhaps beyond
your budget unless you find a good used one. But the brass boiler knocks
out most of the less expensive machines. My Gaggia Coffee would be in your
price range and meet your other requirements, but it has an aluminum boiler.
There are some machines with stainless steel boilers, but they probably
won't brew two shots without a rest between them.

"Beano" <s370782@student.uq.edu.au > wrote in message
news:1158815000.070084.292920@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Hi,
>
> I have just thrown my old espresso machine out. It was leaking more
> water than it was pumping into my cup.
>
> I would now like to get a new one. I like a good tasting coffee made
> from espresso shot but mostly I like milk drinks. I would like a
> gaggia or something nice and classy, but they are expensive and all the
> reviews out on the internet are confusing me. Besides classy and good
> brand, I mainly have 2 criteria - I want a machine that can pump out at
> least one cup of coffee without me having to stop the pump to allow the
> water to heat up again. Even better if it could do 2 cups! I also
> want one with a brass boiler (I've heard they keep the water stream
> hotter for longer and don't corrode like aluminium/brass combo's).
>
> Any recommendations for a machine I can get in Australia? My budget is
> about AU$200
>