coffee-forum.net
Promoting coffee discussion.

Main
Date: 13 Dec 2006 11:15:24
From: brett
Subject: How to pour honey?
Sometimes I'm able to get my espresso shots pour out like honey - very
thick, solid, and rich looking. However, most of the time, I get the
watery tornados. I've tried combinations of tamping with more pressure
and grinding finer but can't get control over when I'll see honey.
These actions usually result in greatly decreasing flow. By 25
seconds, only 1/2 of the demitasse has been filled.

Does any one have some good suggestions on how I work at this better?

Thanks,
Brett





 
Date: 26 Dec 2006 08:31:55
From:
Subject: Re: How to pour honey?
What/who gave you the idea that 25 seconds was the ideal extraction
time for your beans?

I believe htough, that 25 seconds was the suggested minimum for baristi
to keep their customers happy (= not waiting). At home no need for it.



 
Date: 14 Dec 2006 10:22:10
From: prosenfe@atl.lmco.com
Subject: Re: How to pour honey?
It really sounds like stale coffee.



 
Date: 14 Dec 2006 07:26:06
From: brett
Subject: Re: How to pour honey?
Unfortunately, the finer grind only resulted in a slower but still
watery pour. The steams was thinner this time because restricted flow.

Brett



 
Date: 14 Dec 2006 05:32:19
From: jggall01
Subject: Re: How to pour honey?

brett wrote:

> I pull a small blank shot before every shot. I do let the machine warm
> up for probably 10 - 20 minutes each time.

Your machine (the group in particular) probably won't be fully warmed
up for at least 45 minutes.

Jim



 
Date: 14 Dec 2006 00:16:10
From: brett
Subject: Re: How to pour honey?
> I'm going to try a coarser grind first.

Sorry - I meant finer grind and software tamp.



 
Date: 14 Dec 2006 00:14:14
From: brett
Subject: Re: How to pour honey?
> I've got a Gaggia Espresso, and I used to get watery tornadoes too.
> Nowadays, I make 4 blank shots and clear the steam wand before I pull
> my espresso shots, and this has improved my shots tremendously. By
> watery tornado, I assume you are using a naked portafilter. Warming up
> my machine about 15 minutes beforehand has greatly improved my shots.

I pull a small blank shot before every shot. I do let the machine warm
up for probably 10 - 20 minutes each time. I clear the wand also
before frothing.

I'm going to try a coarser grind first. Then I'll try your suggestion
with the four shots.
Brett



 
Date: 13 Dec 2006 22:58:32
From: n00b
Subject: Re: How to pour honey?

brett wrote:
> Sometimes I'm able to get my espresso shots pour out like honey - very
> thick, solid, and rich looking. However, most of the time, I get the
> watery tornados. I've tried combinations of tamping with more pressure
> and grinding finer but can't get control over when I'll see honey.
> These actions usually result in greatly decreasing flow. By 25
> seconds, only 1/2 of the demitasse has been filled.
>
> Does any one have some good suggestions on how I work at this better?
>
> Thanks,
> Brett

I've got a Gaggia Espresso, and I used to get watery tornadoes too.
Nowadays, I make 4 blank shots and clear the steam wand before I pull
my espresso shots, and this has improved my shots tremendously. By
watery tornado, I assume you are using a naked portafilter. Warming up
my machine about 15 minutes beforehand has greatly improved my shots.



 
Date: 13 Dec 2006 17:30:30
From: brett
Subject: Re: How to pour honey?
> Im not sure that a machine is actually capable of being finicky Brett
> ,but If your Silvia is like most than your overpressure valve is set to
> open at about 14 bars,I know that mine was..This is your main point of
> {finickyness} I believe. Its hard not to get channeling with a Silvia
> in this case..I saw much improvment in my Silvia when I lowered it to
> 8.5 bars.. Please add this to the other tips ...

How did you do that and what gave you the idea?

Brett



 
Date: 13 Dec 2006 16:35:50
From:
Subject: Re: How to pour honey?

brett wrote:
> > Stale coffee blasts like a gusher every time.
> >
> > R "do you know when your beans were roasted" TF
>
> I order my beans. They are roasted in the morning, shippped that day
> and two days later I get them. For example, roasted and shipped Monday
> and received Wednesday. The timing is good because the beans can
> degass. They don't hang around the kitchen for more than 7 - 10 days
> after I get them. So, they aren't going to be stale.
>
> Brett

Im not sure that a machine is actually capable of being finicky Brett
,but If your Silvia is like most than your overpressure valve is set to
open at about 14 bars,I know that mine was..This is your main point of
{finickyness} I believe. Its hard not to get channeling with a Silvia
in this case..I saw much improvment in my Silvia when I lowered it to
8.5 bars.. Please add this to the other tips ...
Don



 
Date: 13 Dec 2006 13:42:57
From: brett
Subject: Re: How to pour honey?
> Stale coffee blasts like a gusher every time.
>
> R "do you know when your beans were roasted" TF

I order my beans. They are roasted in the morning, shippped that day
and two days later I get them. For example, roasted and shipped Monday
and received Wednesday. The timing is good because the beans can
degass. They don't hang around the kitchen for more than 7 - 10 days
after I get them. So, they aren't going to be stale.

Brett



 
Date: 13 Dec 2006 13:39:55
From: brett
Subject: Re: How to pour honey?
>Grinding finer and tamping level
> with just enough force to feel the grinds compress worked better.

I remember doing this a while back and it seemed to work good. I'll
try it a few times.

>I use one time NSEW slight rocking during the tamp for a good seal.

Do you have a link to this (I'm not sure what it is)?

Thanks,
Brett



 
Date: 13 Dec 2006 13:22:27
From:
Subject: Re: How to pour honey?

brett wrote:
> Sometimes I'm able to get my espresso shots pour out like honey - very
> thick, solid, and rich looking. However, most of the time, I get the
> watery tornados. I've tried combinations of tamping with more pressure
> and grinding finer but can't get control over when I'll see honey.
> These actions usually result in greatly decreasing flow. By 25
> seconds, only 1/2 of the demitasse has been filled.
>
> Does any one have some good suggestions on how I work at this better?
>
> Thanks,
> Brett

The Silvia is finicky. I had one for almost a year and the shots were
good but not consistent. All variables need to be on with dose and
distribution being very important. I used to fill the basket, level
off and use a modified Stockfleth's mover to distribute. Tamping
really hard didn't work well for me. Grinding finer and tamping level
with just enough force to feel the grinds compress worked better. I
use one time NSEW slight rocking during the tamp for a good seal.
Ideally the prepared puck should be just under the showerscreen screw
and after the pull you should see the indentation of the screw. Even
and level is what the Silvia demands on top of a fresh roast and good
grind.

With the watery shots you're probably getting channelling somewhere.
Look at the spent puck before you knock it out of the basket and see
where the holes are and adjust your dosing, distributing and tamping
accordingly.



 
Date: 13 Dec 2006 13:09:31
From: brett
Subject: Re: How to pour honey?

jggall01 wrote:
> Hi, Brett -
>
> Tell us about your grinder and coffee. Likely that one is the culprit.

Doubt it - Silvia and Rocky.



  
Date: 13 Dec 2006 16:17:59
From: Moka Java
Subject: Re: How to pour honey?
brett wrote:

> jggall01 wrote:
>
>>Hi, Brett -
>>
>>Tell us about your grinder and coffee. Likely that one is the culprit.
>
>
> Doubt it - Silvia and Rocky.
>

Stale coffee blasts like a gusher every time.

R "do you know when your beans were roasted" TF


 
Date: 13 Dec 2006 12:33:46
From: jggall01
Subject: Re: How to pour honey?
Hi, Brett -

Tell us about your grinder and coffee. Likely that one is the culprit.

Jim



 
Date: 13 Dec 2006 12:21:42
From: brett
Subject: Re: How to pour honey?

Dan Bollinger wrote:
> Sometimes the trick is to grind coarser. Dan

Which would imply tamping harder right? Otherwise, the water will come
blasting out.

Thanks,
Brett



  
Date: 14 Dec 2006 11:34:37
From: Ed Needham
Subject: Re: How to pour honey?
Get temps, pressure etc within normal limits, then selectively change grind
till you get the result you want. Tamping styles are different for each
person and don't affect the outcome as much as grind.
--
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"
http://www.homeroaster.com
(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

"brett" <account@cygen.com > wrote in message
news:1166041302.317372.208050@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Dan Bollinger wrote:
>> Sometimes the trick is to grind coarser. Dan
>
> Which would imply tamping harder right? Otherwise, the water will come
> blasting out.
>
> Thanks,
> Brett
>




  
Date: 13 Dec 2006 16:16:11
From: Moka Java
Subject: Re: How to pour honey?
brett wrote:
> Dan Bollinger wrote:
>
>>Sometimes the trick is to grind coarser. Dan
>
>
> Which would imply tamping harder right? Otherwise, the water will come
> blasting out.
>
> Thanks,
> Brett
>

We really have to know what you are using for a grinder and an espresso
machine. If your espresso machine has a pressurized portafilter,
sometimes called a crema enhancer, you will never get honey like pours
-- it just creates ersatz crema. I have actually and tried different
tamping pressures from 0 to 50 lbs. and can't tell any appreciable
difference. 9 bars of pressure is about 135 psi which is harder than
anyone but Barry tamps.

R "Barry tamps that hard because he can, I can't" TF


 
Date: 13 Dec 2006 15:19:38
From: Dan Bollinger
Subject: Re: How to pour honey?
Sometimes the trick is to grind coarser. Dan

"brett" <account@cygen.com > wrote in message
news:1166037324.754804.63340@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
> Sometimes I'm able to get my espresso shots pour out like honey - very
> thick, solid, and rich looking. However, most of the time, I get the
> watery tornados. I've tried combinations of tamping with more pressure
> and grinding finer but can't get control over when I'll see honey.
> These actions usually result in greatly decreasing flow. By 25
> seconds, only 1/2 of the demitasse has been filled.
>
> Does any one have some good suggestions on how I work at this better?
>
> Thanks,
> Brett
>