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Date: 05 Oct 2006 23:16:45
From: Flashman
Subject: Illy in The Economist
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Not sure if you need a subscription:
http://www.economist.com/people/displaystory.cfm?story_id=E1_SJGSRTQ
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Date: 06 Oct 2006 05:47:16
From: Danny Joe
Subject: Re: Illy in The Economist
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Ken Fox wrote:
> "notbob" <notbob@nothome.com> wrote in message
> news:o-KdndTkQdzgCbjYnZ2dnUVZ_oednZ2d@comcast.com...
> > On 2006-10-05, Flashman <lostillusions1957-lucien@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> Not sure if you need a subscription:
> >>
> >> http://www.economist.com/people/displaystory.cfm?story_id=E1_SJGSRTQ
> >
> > Where there's a will......
> >
> > http://makeashorterlink.com/?F465259ED
> >
> > nb
>
> What surprised me was how short the article was and how little information
> was given. I've always seen the Economist as being a magazine that writes
> about stuff in excruciating detail, bordering on being too cerebral, e.g.
> boring. This was just a short nothing of an article, which must have taken
> up less than one page.
>
> ken
It was one page in the mag
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Date: 06 Oct 2006 04:39:43
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Illy Wood finish
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" . . .In the area of wood finishing, "
THAT reminds me of the taste of Illy coffee! -- WOOD
Dave
122
www.hitechespresso.com
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Date: 06 Oct 2006 02:22:52
From: CoffeeKid
Subject: Re: Illy in The Economist
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Jack Denver wrote:
> crema is an emulsion (between coffee oils and water), but this is nothing
> new.
>
Actually, it may be a bit more than that. I have a rather interesting
author working on a new viewpoint towards crema.
An excerpt, feel free to pick it apart:
What is crema and why does it appear?
Amidst the complex chemistry of coffee roasting a lot of CO2 is
generated. Much is lost from the porous bean as it cools and rests, but
a considerable quantity is retained with the cells. Grinding exposes
this so as short a wait before brewing as possible is necessary. Hot
water hits the coffee and interesting things start to happen. To many
who write about espresso the pump pressure of 9 bars is most relevant
to emulsifying the otherwise insoluble oils in the coffee. It has
another use in allowing water to become supersaturated with the CO2,
dissolving far more than it could hold at normal atmospheric pressure.
This is why the thousands of tiny bubbles appear as soon as the liquid
escapes the pressurised basket.
This alone is not enough to explain the crema. After all - when I
release the pressure by opening a bottle of cola I briefly see bubbles
rise and form a foam, but nothing that would pass the classic Italian
test of supporting a spoonful of sugar. To explain this properly we
have to delve briefly into a little food science. For a foam to happen
we need some bubbles and also some sort of compound or molecule that
likes to wrap itself around the bubble making it strong.
This chemical doing the coating is referred to as a surface active
agent, or surfactant. I first came across this concept reading the
guide to milk foaming on CoffeeGeek but, unlike milk, in coffee this is
not done by a protein but by a type of compound called a melanoidin.
The reason proteins and melanoidins coat air bubbles is that parts of
them are repelled by water - they are said to be hydrophobic. So rather
than face water they turn and face any air, which isn't polar, causing
the whole compound to adsorb onto the bubble - and we have foam! There
is something else that is non polar and that is fat/oil. (to clarify
the term fat - it is just an oil in solid state) The presence of fat
often destroys foam - think getting a little egg yolk in the bowl when
trying to whip the whites, and fat is the main reason so many souffl=E9s
fail.
So are the oils in coffee the reason that crema is fleeting and last
only a few minutes? Yes and no. A bigger problem is that of drainage.
The surfactant is dissolved in the water and as gravity starts to drain
the coffee from amongst the foam this can drag the coating from the
bubbles and leave them weak and inelastic. Very quickly they burst and
are gone. How quickly this foam bursts is therefore linked to the speed
of the drainage. The crema and a properly pulled shot last much longer
than a fast shot because the liquid is much thicker (as would be
confirmed by the feel in the mouth when tasting them)
.=2E.. and it continues. This is from the first draft. I'm still awaiting
the final revision, but the article is a real eye opener.
k
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Date: 06 Oct 2006 17:44:17
From: jim schulman
Subject: Re: Illy in The Economist
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On 6 Oct 2006 02:22:52 -0700, "CoffeeKid" <Coffeekid@gmail.com > wrote:
>... and it continues. This is from the first draft. I'm still awaiting
>the final revision, but the article is a real eye opener.
James Hoffman?
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Date: 07 Oct 2006 15:52:30
From: Brent
Subject: Re: Illy in The Economist
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>>... and it continues. This is from the first draft. I'm still awaiting
>>the final revision, but the article is a real eye opener.
>
> James Hoffman?
certainly his style...
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Date: 05 Oct 2006 18:25:49
From: notbob
Subject: Re: Illy in The Economist
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On 2006-10-05, Flashman <lostillusions1957-lucien@yahoo.com > wrote:
> Not sure if you need a subscription:
>
> http://www.economist.com/people/displaystory.cfm?story_id=E1_SJGSRTQ
Where there's a will......
http://makeashorterlink.com/?F465259ED
nb
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Date: 06 Oct 2006 05:07:58
From: Ken Fox
Subject: Re: Illy in The Economist
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"notbob" <notbob@nothome.com > wrote in message
news:o-KdndTkQdzgCbjYnZ2dnUVZ_oednZ2d@comcast.com...
> On 2006-10-05, Flashman <lostillusions1957-lucien@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Not sure if you need a subscription:
>>
>> http://www.economist.com/people/displaystory.cfm?story_id=E1_SJGSRTQ
>
> Where there's a will......
>
> http://makeashorterlink.com/?F465259ED
>
> nb
What surprised me was how short the article was and how little information
was given. I've always seen the Economist as being a magazine that writes
about stuff in excruciating detail, bordering on being too cerebral, e.g.
boring. This was just a short nothing of an article, which must have taken
up less than one page.
ken
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Date: 05 Oct 2006 21:59:01
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Illy in The Economist
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"{Mr. Illy} claims (though some espresso-lovers dispute this), that
Illycaffe has been responsible for three of the seven big innovations in
coffee-making in the past century, as a traditional Italian craft has become
an industrial process. The firm standardised espresso-making, and developed
the paper pod containing a single dose of pre-ground coffee for an espresso
machine. (Others invented decaffeination, instant coffee, multiple packets
and liquid coffee.) .... Now Illycaffe is implementing what it regards as
its third big innovation. This is a two-stage espresso-making process
involving "hyper-fusion" (which intensifies the drink's aroma), and
"emulsification" (which makes it smoother)."
Does anyone know what "multiple packets" are? The two stage process
involving "Hyper-fusion"& "Emulsification" ? I thought I knew something
about coffee and I have no bloody idea what they are talking about.
"notbob" <notbob@nothome.com > wrote in message
news:o-KdndTkQdzgCbjYnZ2dnUVZ_oednZ2d@comcast.com...
> On 2006-10-05, Flashman <lostillusions1957-lucien@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Not sure if you need a subscription:
>>
>> http://www.economist.com/people/displaystory.cfm?story_id=E1_SJGSRTQ
>
> Where there's a will......
>
> http://makeashorterlink.com/?F465259ED
>
> nb
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Date: 05 Oct 2006 23:07:57
From: jim schulman
Subject: Re: Illy in The Economist
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On Thu, 5 Oct 2006 21:59:01 -0400, "Jack Denver"
<nunuvyer@netscape.net > wrote:
>The two stage process
>involving "Hyper-fusion"& "Emulsification" ?
My guess is some sort of trick pre-infusion to stop the usual
pod-gush.
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Date: 06 Oct 2006 10:16:44
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Illy in The Economist
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Your guess is as good as any, but why should we have been left guessing
about one of the "seven big innovations....in the past century"? If
"multiple packets" are one of the seven, why doesn't anyone seem to know
what they are? The little envelopes of Sanka that you get at the diner?
And if nobody here gets it, how is the average Economist reader supposed to
be enlightened by this? I get the feeling that something was lost in
translation. If you asked the reporter, he would have no idea what these
mean either - he is just writing down words in his notebook without any
understanding - if Illy had said "hyperflostigination" is the next big
thing, he would have written that down too. This is the worst kind of
journalism.
For such a knowledgeable guy, Illy offers a strange list. I'd say out of
his list of "7 bigs" in the last 100 years, I'd rate 2 of them as valid -
decaf and instant. Note that this is not a list of "goods" , just "bigs".
Here are 5 that I'd put ahead of Illy's other 5, in no particular order:
1. Vacuum packed canned coffee
2. Invention of the 9 bar espresso machine
3. The electric auto drip machine (e.g. "Mr. Coffee")
4. The superautomatic machine
5. Widespread use of robusta coffee
Anyone care to offer their own "7 bigs"?
"jim schulman" <jim_schulman@ameritech.net > wrote in message
news:2jlbi25dijlulmb8nsh8kfhfslg43g3pc5@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 5 Oct 2006 21:59:01 -0400, "Jack Denver"
> <nunuvyer@netscape.net> wrote:
>
>>The two stage process
>>involving "Hyper-fusion"& "Emulsification" ?
>
> My guess is some sort of trick pre-infusion to stop the usual
> pod-gush.
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Date: 06 Oct 2006 18:05:39
From: jim schulman
Subject: Re: Illy in The Economist
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On Fri, 6 Oct 2006 10:16:44 -0400, "Jack Denver"
<nunuvyer@netscape.net > wrote:
>For such a knowledgeable guy, Illy offers a strange list. I'd say out of
>his list of "7 bigs" in the last 100 years, I'd rate 2 of them as valid -
>decaf and instant. Note that this is not a list of "goods" , just "bigs".
The third Illy one he didn't mention was, presumably, the nitrogen
cans. That would make his list:
Decaf
Standardised espresso (presumably his definition of the product)
Pods
Multiple Packets (? - the coffee-service style single servings)
Instant
Liquid Coffee
Nitrogen Flushed Cans
Five of his big seven are preservation technologies (odd he didn't
include vacuum packing and one way valves to make it seven of seven.
He probably thinks those as obsoleted by his cans as Arbuckle's sugar
coating).
The emphasis makes sense -- Illy's obsession is to mass produce coffee
at the same quality level as locally roasted and prepared, thereby
making it truly "modern." If that is the goal, preparation techniques
are irrelevent, and only preservation technologies count.
However, one route to this would be to make his coffee a frozen
product, either as single cans of whole beans, or as boxes of ground,
individually sealed, single servings. So I think he's using the screw
driver to pound a nail -- preservation of high quality coffee isn't a
technology problem, just a question of setting up the right supply
chain (if Wall's Icecream can set up and stock freezers at every
Shanghai newstand, this doesn't even seem to be a rocket science
keting problem).
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Date: 06 Oct 2006 21:24:41
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Illy in The Economist
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It's not like you can deliver ice cream that is NOT frozen as an
alternative.
I don't think the average consumer knows that he "needs" to buy his coffee
frozen and it would be a hard selling job to convince them that they do and
should pay more for it.
"jim schulman" <jim_schulman@ameritech.net > wrote in message
news:qbndi21hc5mr8mcsc57qfo8s0v70dum0qd@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 6 Oct 2006 10:16:44 -0400, "Jack Denver"
> <nunuvyer@netscape.net> wrote:
>
>>For such a knowledgeable guy, Illy offers a strange list. I'd say out of
>>his list of "7 bigs" in the last 100 years, I'd rate 2 of them as valid -
>>decaf and instant. Note that this is not a list of "goods" , just "bigs".
>
> The third Illy one he didn't mention was, presumably, the nitrogen
> cans. That would make his list:
>
> Decaf
> Standardised espresso (presumably his definition of the product)
>
> Pods
> Multiple Packets (? - the coffee-service style single servings)
> Instant
> Liquid Coffee
> Nitrogen Flushed Cans
>
> Five of his big seven are preservation technologies (odd he didn't
> include vacuum packing and one way valves to make it seven of seven.
> He probably thinks those as obsoleted by his cans as Arbuckle's sugar
> coating).
>
> The emphasis makes sense -- Illy's obsession is to mass produce coffee
> at the same quality level as locally roasted and prepared, thereby
> making it truly "modern." If that is the goal, preparation techniques
> are irrelevent, and only preservation technologies count.
>
> However, one route to this would be to make his coffee a frozen
> product, either as single cans of whole beans, or as boxes of ground,
> individually sealed, single servings. So I think he's using the screw
> driver to pound a nail -- preservation of high quality coffee isn't a
> technology problem, just a question of setting up the right supply
> chain (if Wall's Icecream can set up and stock freezers at every
> Shanghai newstand, this doesn't even seem to be a rocket science
> keting problem).
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Date: 06 Oct 2006 21:02:22
From: jim schulman
Subject: Re: Illy in The Economist
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On Fri, 6 Oct 2006 21:24:41 -0400, "Jack Denver"
<nunuvyer@netscape.net > wrote:
>I don't think the average consumer knows that he "needs" to buy his coffee
>frozen and it would be a hard selling job to convince them that they do and
>should pay more for it.
Nobody's ever tried.
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Date: 06 Oct 2006 23:14:25
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Illy in The Economist
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I think it's a very high risk - Illy is doing well already - why should they
take this kind of risk? If they succeed in educating the public, someone
else will come in and steal their ket share anyway. This is the kind of
thing where you hope your competitor will pay the cost of building the
ket and then you can steal their lunch with low entry costs - there's a
very extensive frozen food distribution system in superkets and it would
be easy enough for Kraft or Sara Lee to add coffee to it if the demand was
proven (by someone else).
"jim schulman" <jim_schulman@ameritech.net > wrote in message
news:vk2ei2pi82crksso4136usothu6a2i942s@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 6 Oct 2006 21:24:41 -0400, "Jack Denver"
> <nunuvyer@netscape.net> wrote:
>
>>I don't think the average consumer knows that he "needs" to buy his coffee
>>frozen and it would be a hard selling job to convince them that they do
>>and
>>should pay more for it.
>
> Nobody's ever tried.
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Date: 05 Oct 2006 21:13:24
From: Harry Moos
Subject: Re: Illy in The Economist
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In the area of wood finishing, emulsification is a process of mixing two
unlike or incompatible substances -- such as wax and water. They are in
suspension with each other, but still separate and unchanged by each other.
I have no idea how this would fit in the espresso picture.
"Jack Denver" <nunuvyer@netscape.net > wrote in message
news:WJadnXFoBYr7JbjYnZ2dnUVZ_uudnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
>
> Does anyone know what "multiple packets" are? The two stage process
> involving "Hyper-fusion"& "Emulsification" ? I thought I knew something
> about coffee and I have no bloody idea what they are talking about.
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Date: 05 Oct 2006 23:32:32
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Illy in The Economist
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crema is an emulsion (between coffee oils and water), but this is nothing
new.
"Harry Moos" <harrym@ruraltel.net > wrote in message
news:mpWdnV-X5MggJrjYnZ2dnUVZ_sGdnZ2d@news.ruraltel.net...
> In the area of wood finishing, emulsification is a process of mixing two
> unlike or incompatible substances -- such as wax and water. They are in
> suspension with each other, but still separate and unchanged by each
> other. I have no idea how this would fit in the espresso picture.
>
> "Jack Denver" <nunuvyer@netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:WJadnXFoBYr7JbjYnZ2dnUVZ_uudnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>
>>
>> Does anyone know what "multiple packets" are? The two stage process
>> involving "Hyper-fusion"& "Emulsification" ? I thought I knew something
>> about coffee and I have no bloody idea what they are talking about.
>
>
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Date: 05 Oct 2006 20:15:21
From: jim schulman
Subject: Re: Illy in The Economist
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On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 18:25:49 -0500, notbob <notbob@nothome.com > wrote:
>On 2006-10-05, Flashman <lostillusions1957-lucien@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Not sure if you need a subscription:
>>
>> http://www.economist.com/people/displaystory.cfm?story_id=E1_SJGSRTQ
>
>Where there's a will......
>
>http://makeashorterlink.com/?F465259ED
>
>nb
Nice article.
"The massification of luxury" That does sound exactly like Illy.
I liked this part:
"There was also a display of pictures of smiling workers in the
various countries that grow Illycaffe's beans. The photographer was
Sebastião Salgado, a Brazilian who is well known for his painful
images of exploited workers in the developing world. The message was
clear: like Starbucks, Illycaffe is keen to reassure customers that
its coffee is produced according to the highest ethical standards.
"Despite this, Mr Illy is sceptical about the influential Fairtrade
movement, which tries to ensure that farmers in the developing world
make a reasonable profit regardless of fluctuations in prices on
international commodity kets. Mr Illy complains that Fairtrade
certification gives farmers a premium no matter what the quality,
whereas to him, quality is everything."
Who needs Fairtrade if you can get the current model of Dorothea Lange
to do your PR photos?
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