Is "Specialty" coffee still special? Scaa

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Date: 31 Jul 2007 19:35:13
From: farmroast
Subject: Is "Specialty" coffee still special? Scaa

As with most terms in the food biz "all natural" "fresh" "organic"
etc. with time they become watered down and almost meaningless. I saw
on the scaa site that Erna Knutsen coined the term "specialty coffee"
in 1974. For quality single origin beans. But much has changed in the
biz since then. What is specialty coffee today? And maybe more
interesting to the consumer, what is not specialty coffee. Freshness
of roast is very important to me but not sure that factor is even
considered.

Date: 06 Aug 2007 12:57:30
From: farmroast
Subject: Re: Is "Specialty" coffee still special? Scaa

On Aug 6, 3:50 pm, Marshall <mrf...@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote:
> On Thu, 02 Aug 2007 13:46:26 -0700, farmroast <edbourge...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >When I started in farming in the late sixties here in MA., the
> >naturally grown food and fiber products especially with the beginnings
> >of things like yogurt, sprouts, naturally processed fiber, granola,
> >etc. were referred to as "hippie commune foods" sold through commune
> >supported coop stores. Wish I could remember what we had for coffee in
> >the coop back then.
>
> Back then we belonged to "food conspiracies" in Berkeley and Ithaca,
> where we bought produce direct from local farmers and then bagged and
> boxed for our members. As is typical with volunteer organizations, the
> majority relied on a few people to do all the work, and our
> "conspiracies" fell apart.
>
> The coffee was pretty good (to my post-adolescent taste) in Berkeley
> and terrible in Ithaca. 30 years later there is great coffee to be had
> in both towns.
>
> Marshall

Marshall Ya mean Dawes Hill near Ithaca. Jack H. or Karen S. or
brown cow farm yogurt (old friends). small world

Date: 06 Aug 2007 15:26:15
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Is "Specialty" coffee still special? Scaa

On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 12:57:30 -0700, farmroast <edbourgeois@gmail.com >
wrote:

>Marshall Ya mean Dawes Hill near Ithaca. Jack H. or Karen S. or
>brown cow farm yogurt (old friends). small world

The only retail dairies I remember were Purity (nice ice cream) and
Cornell's.

The tragedy is that today there is so little good coffee in Berkeley,
which is the birthplace of the artisan coffee revival, while you can
get great coffee all over Ithaca (thanks to Gimme and Carriage House).

Marshall

Date: 05 Aug 2007 09:27:41
From: farmroast
Subject: Re: Is "Specialty" coffee still special? Scaa

On Aug 5, 11:59 am, jim schulman <jim_schul...@ameritech.net > wrote:
> On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 08:11:39 -0700, farmroast <edbourge...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >This is what farming and foods is all about. A personal relationship
> >between farmer and consumer. The Mermaid, Doughboy, GreenGiant and
> >that Clown are not farmers and don't serve any useful role in the
> >system. They create the disconnect between the farmer and consumer.
>
> Actually they create a connection between the farmer and the consumer.
> Blaming the middleman is a very ancient sport, and a lot of fun as
> rhetoric. The problem is when you start hanging the middlemen instead
> of just blaming them, the result isn't utopia, but famine.
>
> On the other hand, it may be worth thinking about the route from farm
> to cup as a communication channel. What to business types is "brand
> building," "value added," or "building shareholder value" would, to a
> communications engineer, be "noise."
>
> Specialty coffee has always used this communications metaphor to
> define itself -- it's all about getting the taste locked into that
> coffee cherry into the cup with as little distortion as possible. If
> that is the goal, then many of the usual criteria of a successful
> retailer, owning established brands, adding a lot of value, etc, are
> misguided.
>
> But a blanket blaming of middlemen is hardly the right answer.
> Specialty roasters are working on new ways to look at this -- direct
> trade, DOC or trademarks for origins, auctions, even fair trade and
> other certifications -- are bringing the reality of the farm into the
> cup and to the consumer. There are two sets of problems to these new
> methods: the first is progressively refining them into something that
> works well, the second is making them profitable enough so they can
> attract investment capital away from the brand-name version of food
> distribution.

Tom at Sweet Maria's is a middleman and spokesman I can respect,
doughboy as the spokesthing(not just a cute logo) for a food I consume
is hard to respect.

Date: 05 Aug 2007 10:21:30
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Is "Specialty" coffee still special? Scaa

On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 09:27:41 -0700, farmroast <edbourgeois@gmail.com >
wrote:

>Tom at Sweet Maria's is a middleman and spokesman I can respect,
>doughboy as the spokesthing(not just a cute logo) for a food I consume
>is hard to respect.

Which means you recognize and respect Tom's brand, which he has worked
hard to establish. There are also many others worthy of respect.

Marshall

Date: 05 Aug 2007 08:11:39
From: farmroast
Subject: Re: Is "Specialty" coffee still special? Scaa

On Aug 5, 3:01 am, "DougW" <post.repl...@invalid.address > wrote:
> Marshall wrote:
> > There is no single organization authorized to certify coffee as
> > "specialty." Delivering flavorful, zero-defect coffee involves a
> > complex network of farmers, local graders, exporters, importers,
> > brokers and contractual commitments that involve sampling and testing
> > the green and roasted coffees at various stages.
>
> Which is exactly why I trust and buy from folks like Cea at Smith Farms.
> There is no substitute for buying directly from the plantation.
>
> --
> DougW
> Sleep is irrelevant.

This is what farming and foods is all about. A personal relationship
between farmer and consumer. The Mermaid, Doughboy, GreenGiant and
that Clown are not farmers and don't serve any useful role in the
system. They create the disconnect between the farmer and consumer.

Date: 05 Aug 2007 10:18:47
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Is "Specialty" coffee still special? Scaa

Date: 05 Aug 2007 10:59:38
From: jim schulman
Subject: Re: Is "Specialty" coffee still special? Scaa

On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 08:11:39 -0700, farmroast <edbourgeois@gmail.com >
wrote:

>This is what farming and foods is all about. A personal relationship
>between farmer and consumer. The Mermaid, Doughboy, GreenGiant and
>that Clown are not farmers and don't serve any useful role in the
>system. They create the disconnect between the farmer and consumer.

Actually they create a connection between the farmer and the consumer.
Blaming the middleman is a very ancient sport, and a lot of fun as
rhetoric. The problem is when you start hanging the middlemen instead
of just blaming them, the result isn't utopia, but famine.

On the other hand, it may be worth thinking about the route from farm
to cup as a communication channel. What to business types is "brand
building," "value added," or "building shareholder value" would, to a
communications engineer, be "noise."

Specialty coffee has always used this communications metaphor to
define itself -- it's all about getting the taste locked into that
coffee cherry into the cup with as little distortion as possible. If
that is the goal, then many of the usual criteria of a successful
retailer, owning established brands, adding a lot of value, etc, are
misguided.

But a blanket blaming of middlemen is hardly the right answer.
Specialty roasters are working on new ways to look at this -- direct
trade, DOC or trademarks for origins, auctions, even fair trade and
other certifications -- are bringing the reality of the farm into the
cup and to the consumer. There are two sets of problems to these new
methods: the first is progressively refining them into something that
works well, the second is making them profitable enough so they can
attract investment capital away from the brand-name version of food
distribution.

Date: 05 Aug 2007 11:06:15
From: jim schulman
Subject: Re: Is "Specialty" coffee still special? Scaa

On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 10:59:38 -0500, jim schulman
<jim_schulman@ameritech.net > wrote:

>There are two sets of problems to these new
>methods: the first is progressively refining them into something that
>works well, the second is making them profitable enough so they can
>attract investment capital away from the brand-name version of food
>distribution.

An addendum: I think one has to look at the infamous Howard Schultz
memo from earlier this year in this context. His goal was to create a
successful, "wall street friendly" way of selling specialty coffee;
and he woke up to find Starbucks a brand and corportation pushing same
store sales, new "products," and all the other hum drum of standard
modern marketing.

Date: 05 Aug 2007 05:08:48
From: rasqual
Subject: Re: Is "Specialty" coffee still special? Scaa

On Aug 4, 7:26 pm, Marshall <mrf...@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote:
> On Sat, 04 Aug 2007 21:41:28 -0000, rasqual blurted:

> >And it's little comfort to hear that such coffee may be found at "most
> >gourmet coffee shops" (ugh, the "g" word). I mean, many people may be
> >found in morgues but if I want a convivial evening that's not the
> >first venue that comes to mind. ;-D

> I'm sure that means something; but, I can't figure out what it is.

specialty coffee : gourmet coffee shop :: people : morgue

What quality of people does one usually find in a morgue? Not ideal
exemplars of lively humanity.
What quality of coffee does one usually find in a gourmet coffee shop?
Answer: _____

I've never found any coffee shop, anywhere, that called itself a
"gourmet coffee" shop, for which that moniker wasn't a piece of
marketing semantics in lieu of anything meaningful that could do
credit to their product. Generally, such places showcase flavored
beans with undiscoverable roast dates.

It's as fit for consumption as the morgue's denizens are fit to
consume it. ;-)

- S

Date: 05 Aug 2007 10:12:02
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Is "Specialty" coffee still special? Scaa

On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 05:08:48 -0000, rasqual
<scott.marquardt@gmail.com > wrote:

>I've never found any coffee shop, anywhere, that called itself a
>"gourmet coffee" shop, for which that moniker wasn't a piece of
>marketing semantics in lieu of anything meaningful that could do
>credit to their product. Generally, such places showcase flavored
>beans with undiscoverable roast dates.
>
>It's as fit for consumption as the morgue's denizens are fit to
>consume it. ;-)

You should spend more time in the Midwest. As Barry Jarrett pointed
out in an old discussion here, while the much-abused word "gourmet"
has gone to ground and been replaced by "artisan" on the coasts,
"gourmet" still has meaning in the Midwest.

Barry continues to use it to describe his shop, Riley's Coffee & Fudge
(from which I just ordered 2 lbs. of "gourmet" coffee):
http://www.shoppath.com/food_coffee7.htm.

Marshall

Date: 04 Aug 2007 21:41:28
From: rasqual
Subject: Re: Is "Specialty" coffee still special? Scaa

On Aug 1, 11:09 am, farmroast <edbourge...@gmail.com > wrote:
> What are the "exacting standards"? what is the "stringent
> certification process? can't find on scaa site with non-member access.- Hide quoted text -

Right. That one freaks me out a bit too. Imagine someone asking you
whether a coffee you're serving is certified shade grown, organic,
fair trade, or so forth. After you've dispense with such questions,
along comes the zinger: "is it certified specialty?" ;-)

And it's little comfort to hear that such coffee may be found at "most
gourmet coffee shops" (ugh, the "g" word). I mean, many people may be
found in morgues but if I want a convivial evening that's not the
first venue that comes to mind. ;-D

- Scott

Date: 04 Aug 2007 17:26:28
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Is "Specialty" coffee still special? Scaa

On Sat, 04 Aug 2007 21:41:28 -0000, rasqual
<scott.marquardt@gmail.com > wrote:

>On Aug 1, 11:09 am, farmroast <edbourge...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> What are the "exacting standards"? what is the "stringent
>> certification process? can't find on scaa site with non-member access.- Hide quoted text -
>
>Right. That one freaks me out a bit too. Imagine someone asking you
>whether a coffee you're serving is certified shade grown, organic,
>fair trade, or so forth. After you've dispense with such questions,
>along comes the zinger: "is it certified specialty?" ;-)

There is no single organization authorized to certify coffee as
"specialty." Delivering flavorful, zero-defect coffee involves a
complex network of farmers, local graders, exporters, importers,
brokers and contractual commitments that involve sampling and testing
the green and roasted coffees at various stages.

>And it's little comfort to hear that such coffee may be found at "most
>gourmet coffee shops" (ugh, the "g" word). I mean, many people may be
>found in morgues but if I want a convivial evening that's not the
>first venue that comes to mind. ;-D

I'm sure that means something; but, I can't figure out what it is.

Marshall

Date: 05 Aug 2007 02:01:14
From: DougW
Subject: Re: Is "Specialty" coffee still special? Scaa

Marshall wrote:

> There is no single organization authorized to certify coffee as
> "specialty." Delivering flavorful, zero-defect coffee involves a
> complex network of farmers, local graders, exporters, importers,
> brokers and contractual commitments that involve sampling and testing
> the green and roasted coffees at various stages.

Which is exactly why I trust and buy from folks like Cea at Smith Farms.
There is no substitute for buying directly from the plantation.

--
DougW
Sleep is irrelevant.

Date: 04 Aug 2007 21:26:13
From: Moka Java
Subject: Re: Is "Specialty" coffee still special? Scaa

Marshall wrote:
> On Sat, 04 Aug 2007 21:41:28 -0000, rasqual
> <scott.marquardt@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Aug 1, 11:09 am, farmroast <edbourge...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> What are the "exacting standards"? what is the "stringent
>>> certification process? can't find on scaa site with non-member access.- Hide quoted text -
>> Right. That one freaks me out a bit too. Imagine someone asking you
>> whether a coffee you're serving is certified shade grown, organic,
>> fair trade, or so forth. After you've dispense with such questions,
>> along comes the zinger: "is it certified specialty?" ;-)
>
> There is no single organization authorized to certify coffee as
> "specialty." Delivering flavorful, zero-defect coffee involves a
> complex network of farmers, local graders, exporters, importers,
> brokers and contractual commitments that involve sampling and testing
> the green and roasted coffees at various stages.
>
>> And it's little comfort to hear that such coffee may be found at "most
>> gourmet coffee shops" (ugh, the "g" word). I mean, many people may be
>> found in morgues but if I want a convivial evening that's not the
>> first venue that comes to mind. ;-D
>
> I'm sure that means something; but, I can't figure out what it is.
>
> Marshall

I'm finding the beans picked by Bob Y and Jim S and sold through the
geencoffeecoop to be quite special.

R "but wadda I know, hopeless romantic, defective taste buds n'all" TF

Date: 02 Aug 2007 17:36:41
From: Flasherly
Subject: Re: Is "Specialty" coffee still special? Scaa

On Aug 2, 3:30 pm, be...@smithfarms.com wrote:
> Some how I think the SCAA promoted the "S" word itself.

What's needed now is a super-specialty grade for distinguishing
"independents [that] use so-called super-gourmet beans".(1) Blue
Mountain and Kona, only SS coffees in short and but of course.

(1) Neighborhood Flavor Helps Cafes Vie With Starbucks, By Ryan Flinn
-7/26
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aU8cDkiNDVyY

Date: 02 Aug 2007 13:46:26
From: farmroast
Subject: Re: Is "Specialty" coffee still special? Scaa

On Aug 2, 3:30 pm, be...@smithfarms.com wrote:
> On Wed, 1 Aug 2007 20:14:09 -0400, "Ed Needham"
>
> <e...@NOSPAMhomeroaster.com> wrote:
> >I had a coffeehouse in 1977 and the term specialty coffee was not used by
> >any coffee supplier I was aware of. That was 'pre-internet for the masses',
> >but the best coffee at that time was called 'gourmet coffee'.
>
> I remember that too Ed, although we became coffee farmers 10 years
> later. Gourmet was "the" word then too. Don Schoenfeld also used the
> word "Gran Cru" coffee which referred to JBM and Kona.
>
> Some how I think the SCAA promoted the "S" word itself.
>
> aloha,
> Cea
> roast beans to kona to email
> farmers of Pure Kona

When I started in farming in the late sixties here in MA., the
naturally grown food and fiber products especially with the beginnings
of things like yogurt, sprouts, naturally processed fiber, granola,
etc. were referred to as "hippie commune foods" sold through commune
supported coop stores. Wish I could remember what we had for coffee in
the coop back then.

Date: 06 Aug 2007 12:50:02
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Is "Specialty" coffee still special? Scaa

On Thu, 02 Aug 2007 13:46:26 -0700, farmroast <edbourgeois@gmail.com >
wrote:

>When I started in farming in the late sixties here in MA., the
>naturally grown food and fiber products especially with the beginnings
>of things like yogurt, sprouts, naturally processed fiber, granola,
>etc. were referred to as "hippie commune foods" sold through commune
>supported coop stores. Wish I could remember what we had for coffee in
>the coop back then.

Back then we belonged to "food conspiracies" in Berkeley and Ithaca,
where we bought produce direct from local farmers and then bagged and
boxed for our members. As is typical with volunteer organizations, the
majority relied on a few people to do all the work, and our
"conspiracies" fell apart.

The coffee was pretty good (to my post-adolescent taste) in Berkeley
and terrible in Ithaca. 30 years later there is great coffee to be had
in both towns.

Marshall

Date: 01 Aug 2007 20:14:09
From: Ed Needham
Subject: Re: Is "Specialty" coffee still special? Scaa

I had a coffeehouse in 1977 and the term specialty coffee was not used by
any coffee supplier I was aware of. That was 'pre-internet for the masses',
but the best coffee at that time was called 'gourmet coffee'.
--
*********************
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"
http://www.homeroaster.com
*********************

"farmroast" <edbourgeois@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1185935713.625580.249640@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> As with most terms in the food biz "all natural" "fresh" "organic"
> etc. with time they become watered down and almost meaningless. I saw
> on the scaa site that Erna Knutsen coined the term "specialty coffee"
> in 1974. For quality single origin beans. But much has changed in the
> biz since then. What is specialty coffee today? And maybe more
> interesting to the consumer, what is not specialty coffee. Freshness
> of roast is very important to me but not sure that factor is even
> considered.
>

Date: 02 Aug 2007 09:30:44
From:
Subject: Re: Is "Specialty" coffee still special? Scaa

On Wed, 1 Aug 2007 20:14:09 -0400, "Ed Needham"
<ed@NOSPAMhomeroaster.com > wrote:

>I had a coffeehouse in 1977 and the term specialty coffee was not used by
>any coffee supplier I was aware of. That was 'pre-internet for the masses',
>but the best coffee at that time was called 'gourmet coffee'.

I remember that too Ed, although we became coffee farmers 10 years
later. Gourmet was "the" word then too. Don Schoenfeld also used the
word "Gran Cru" coffee which referred to JBM and Kona.

Some how I think the SCAA promoted the "S" word itself.

aloha,
Cea
roast beans to kona to email
farmers of Pure Kona

Date: 01 Aug 2007 17:09:08
From: farmroast
Subject: Re: Is "Specialty" coffee still special? Scaa

On Aug 1, 12:42 pm, Marshall <mrf...@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote:
> On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 04:57:22 GMT, Marshall
>
>
>
> <mrf...@ihatespamearthlink.net> wrote:
> >On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 19:35:13 -0700, farmroast <edbourge...@gmail.com>
> >wrote:
>
> >>As with most terms in the food biz "all natural" "fresh" "organic"
> >>etc. with time they become watered down and almost meaningless. I saw
> >>on the scaa site that Erna Knutsen coined the term "specialty coffee"
> >>in 1974. For quality single origin beans. But much has changed in the
> >>biz since then. What is specialty coffee today? And maybe more
> >>interesting to the consumer, what is not specialty coffee. Freshness
> >>of roast is very important to me but not sure that factor is even
> >>considered.
>
> >"Specialty coffee" means different things to different people. Within
> >the industry, probably the widest agreement would be in the green bean
> >definition: having zero defects with a "distinctive character" in the
> >cup.
>
> I should qualify that. While many (probably most) artisan roasters
> maintain a "zero defect" standard, the SCAA allows 5 per 300 mg.
> sample. For reference purposes, keep in mind that the ICO recommends
> no more than 86 defects and that USDA purity standards allow 610
> defects in the standard sample of coffee.
>
> Marshall

the International Coffee Organization (ICO) and European countries
require that ninety-five percent of coffee imports be coffee product
(allowing only five percent to be non-coffee substances-black or sour
beans, sticks, rocks, etc.), the United States has a guideline that
requires only seventy-five percent of imports to be coffee products.
"good to the last stinker"

Date: 01 Aug 2007 09:09:48
From: farmroast
Subject: Re: Is "Specialty" coffee still special? Scaa

On Aug 1, 10:57 am, Marshall <mrf...@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote:
> On 01 Aug 2007 06:37:03 GMT, "Donn Cave" <d...@drizzle.com> wrote:
>
> >Quoth Marshall <mrf...@ihatespamearthlink.net>:
>
> >

Date: 01 Aug 2007 04:57:22
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Is "Specialty" coffee still special? Scaa

On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 19:35:13 -0700, farmroast <edbourgeois@gmail.com >
wrote:

>As with most terms in the food biz "all natural" "fresh" "organic"
>etc. with time they become watered down and almost meaningless. I saw
>on the scaa site that Erna Knutsen coined the term "specialty coffee"
>in 1974. For quality single origin beans. But much has changed in the
>biz since then. What is specialty coffee today? And maybe more
>interesting to the consumer, what is not specialty coffee. Freshness
>of roast is very important to me but not sure that factor is even
>considered.

"Specialty coffee" means different things to different people. Within
the industry, probably the widest agreement would be in the green bean
definition: having zero defects with a "distinctive character" in the
cup.

Beyond that, some insist it includes care and skill in roasting, some
do not. Some say it requires freshness, some do not. Some say it
includes proper brewing, some do not. Many consumers (and I fear many
shop owners) think it is a latte or, perhaps, a latte with flavoring
added.

Marshall "feel free to add your own definition"

Date: 06 Aug 2007 12:23:08
From: farmroast
Subject: Re: Is "Specialty" coffee still special? Scaa

On Aug 5, 1:21 pm, Marshall <mrf...@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote:
> On Sun, 05 Aug 2007 09:27:41 -0700, farmroast <edbourge...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Tom at Sweet Maria's is a middleman and spokesman I can respect,
> >doughboy as the spokesthing(not just a cute logo) for a food I consume
> >is hard to respect.
>
> Which means you recognize and respect Tom's brand, which he has worked
> hard to establish. There are also many others worthy of respect.
>
> Marshall

Had an interesting trip to the mailbox today. A giant postcard from my
chain supermarket with another national food processing co. name i
hadn't heard of. The card was informing me that by there records I had
bought between now and 2005 one from a list of canned foods that might
contain botulism. It said that it could cause serious heath
consequences and can even be fatal.(what good news!). The card said to
either go to the food co. web site or call their 800#. Gave no contact
info for the supermarket. I went to the chain supermarkets web site
and took me 2 tries and a number of mins. to find some tiny text under
contact info to link to product recall. After the first attempt to
find it I called the 800# for the supermarkets customer service. I
said that I got the card but couldn't find any info on web site. Her
attitude which shock me was this is not their problem it's the food
companies problem.
Yes there are some great people who are middlemen between the farmer
and the consumer but there are too many who have ruined much of the
food system. Food is serious business. As a long time livestock farmer
I must take my job very seriously. I must understand that I hold your
health, my animals health, our environments health and my workers
well being in my hands. Ps The web site said that if I still had and
cans I was to double plastic bag the cans and wash my hands for 2
mins. If the can was bulging, dented or leaking I was to wear eye
protection, gloves, double bag, throw away gloves, then wash hands
for 2 mins.

Date: 01 Aug 2007 09:42:47
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Is "Specialty" coffee still special? Scaa

On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 04:57:22 GMT, Marshall
<mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote:

>On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 19:35:13 -0700, farmroast <edbourgeois@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>As with most terms in the food biz "all natural" "fresh" "organic"
>>etc. with time they become watered down and almost meaningless. I saw
>>on the scaa site that Erna Knutsen coined the term "specialty coffee"
>>in 1974. For quality single origin beans. But much has changed in the
>>biz since then. What is specialty coffee today? And maybe more
>>interesting to the consumer, what is not specialty coffee. Freshness
>>of roast is very important to me but not sure that factor is even
>>considered.
>
>"Specialty coffee" means different things to different people. Within
>the industry, probably the widest agreement would be in the green bean
>definition: having zero defects with a "distinctive character" in the
>cup.

I should qualify that. While many (probably most) artisan roasters
maintain a "zero defect" standard, the SCAA allows 5 per 300 mg.
sample. For reference purposes, keep in mind that the ICO recommends
no more than 86 defects and that USDA purity standards allow 610
defects in the standard sample of coffee.

Marshall

Date: 01 Aug 2007 17:59:30
From: Steve Ackman
Subject: Re: Is "Specialty" coffee still special? Scaa

In <7ld1b3p4p7l2p4llth8gcpionujb0ql50u@4ax.com >, on Wed, 01 Aug 2007
09:42:47 -0700, Marshall, mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net wrote:

> I should qualify that. While many (probably most) artisan roasters
> maintain a "zero defect" standard, the SCAA allows 5 per 300 mg.
> sample.

Let's stop and think about this. An asprin is 325 mg...
;-)

Date: 01 Aug 2007 16:11:14
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Is "Specialty" coffee still special? Scaa

On Wed, 1 Aug 2007 17:59:30 -0400, Steve Ackman
<steve@SNIP-THIS.twoloonscoffee.com > wrote:

>In <7ld1b3p4p7l2p4llth8gcpionujb0ql50u@4ax.com>, on Wed, 01 Aug 2007
>09:42:47 -0700, Marshall, mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net wrote:
>
>> I should qualify that. While many (probably most) artisan roasters
>> maintain a "zero defect" standard, the SCAA allows 5 per 300 mg.
>> sample.
>
> Let's stop and think about this. An asprin is 325 mg...
>;-)

And you call yourself a roaster! Don't you know that specialty beans
are very, very tiny?

O.K. It's 300g. :P

Marshall

Date: 01 Aug 2007 19:42:53
From: Craig Andrews
Subject: Re: Is "Specialty" coffee still special? Scaa

"Marshall" <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote in message
news:2m42b31u79rdfnt5f8fkmk9stnu4lfua6e@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 1 Aug 2007 17:59:30 -0400, Steve Ackman
> <steve@SNIP-THIS.twoloonscoffee.com> wrote:
>
>>In <7ld1b3p4p7l2p4llth8gcpionujb0ql50u@4ax.com>, on Wed, 01 Aug 2007
>>09:42:47 -0700, Marshall, mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net wrote:
>>
>>> I should qualify that. While many (probably most) artisan roasters
>>> maintain a "zero defect" standard, the SCAA allows 5 per 300 mg.
>>> sample.
>>
>> Let's stop and think about this. An asprin is 325 mg...
>>;-)
>
> And you call yourself a roaster! Don't you know that specialty beans
> are very, very tiny?
>
> O.K. It's 300g. :P
>
> Marshall

Yes, especially the Maui Koka! {:-D http://www.homeroaster.com/maui2.html
Craig.

Date: 02 Aug 2007 12:23:36
From: Dan Bollinger
Subject: Re: Is "Specialty" coffee still special? Scaa

> Yes, especially the Maui Koka!

LOL! Isn't that another drug of choice!

Date: 01 Aug 2007 20:18:33
From: Ed Needham
Subject: Re: Is "Specialty" coffee still special? Scaa

Similar to the Koka Moka? :::snicker:::

"Craig Andrews" <alt.coffee@deletethis.rogers.com > wrote in message
news:5hck3tF3jo3spU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> Yes, especially the Maui Koka! {:-D http://www.homeroaster.com/maui2.html
> Craig.
>

Date: 01 Aug 2007 20:23:02
From: Craig Andrews
Subject: Re: Is "Specialty" coffee still special? Scaa

"Ed Needham" <ed@NOSPAMhomeroaster.com > wrote in message
news:28udndEVpKqRvizbnZ2dnUVZ_tCrnZ2d@insightbb.com...
> Similar to the Koka Moka? :::snicker:::
>
> "Craig Andrews" <alt.coffee@deletethis.rogers.com> wrote in message
> news:5hck3tF3jo3spU1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> Yes, especially the Maui Koka! {:-D http://www.homeroaster.com/maui2.html
>> Craig.
>>
>
>

Ed!, I meant Maui MOKA!! HONEST!!! {:-o {:-D
Jeess, I didn't even catch it either.
Craig.

Date: 01 Aug 2007 11:11:31
From:
Subject: Re: Is "Specialty" coffee still special? Scaa

On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 09:42:47 -0700, Marshall
<mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote:

>On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 04:57:22 GMT, Marshall
><mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 19:35:13 -0700, farmroast <edbourgeois@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>As with most terms in the food biz "all natural" "fresh" "organic"
>>>etc. with time they become watered down and almost meaningless. I saw
>>>on the scaa site that Erna Knutsen coined the term "specialty coffee"
>>>in 1974. For quality single origin beans. But much has changed in the
>>>biz since then. What is specialty coffee today? And maybe more
>>>interesting to the consumer, what is not specialty coffee. Freshness
>>>of roast is very important to me but not sure that factor is even
>>>considered.
>>
>>"Specialty coffee" means different things to different people. Within
>>the industry, probably the widest agreement would be in the green bean
>>definition: having zero defects with a "distinctive character" in the
>>cup.
>
>I should qualify that. While many (probably most) artisan roasters
>maintain a "zero defect" standard, the SCAA allows 5 per 300 mg.
>sample. For reference purposes, keep in mind that the ICO recommends
>no more than 86 defects and that USDA purity standards allow 610
>defects in the standard sample of coffee.
>
>Marshall

And Kona has its own standard as well:).

Grades of Kona coffee-- State of Hawaii, Department of Agriculture
are:

Kona Extra Fancy= is the largest bean size, 19/64ths of an inch, with
the least allowed number of defects allowed --less than 10 defects per
pound.

Kona Fancy = 18/64" and 16 or less defects per pound

Kona No. 1 =16/64" and 20 or less defects per pound

Kona Prime = Beans of any size, 15% defective beans by weight

Kona that does not meet the Prime and above is called "Hawaii XXX" or
"Hawaii #3"

There are two kinds of Kona coffee beans. Type I which is 2 beans per
fruit and all of the above are considered Type I and ....PEABERRY:
Type II which is just one round bean per fruit and occurs in only
about 5% of the entire crop

aloha,
Cea
roast beans to kona to email
farmers of Pure Kona

Date: 01 Aug 2007 06:37:03
From: Donn Cave
Subject: Re: Is "Specialty" coffee still special? Scaa

Quoth Marshall <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net >:

Date: 01 Aug 2007 06:02:48
From:
Subject: Re: Is "Specialty" coffee still special? Scaa

On 01 Aug 2007 06:37:03 GMT, "Donn Cave" <donn@drizzle.com > wrote:

>Quoth Marshall <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net>:
>
>

Date: 01 Aug 2007 07:57:39
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: Is "Specialty" coffee still special? Scaa

On 01 Aug 2007 06:37:03 GMT, "Donn Cave" <donn@drizzle.com > wrote:

>Quoth Marshall <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net>:
>
>