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Date: 14 Mar 2007 05:27:02
From: barooo@gmail.com
Subject: Isomac Millenium: Broken pump, clogged line, or something else?
I have a 7 or 8 year old isomac millenium. It just got back from the
shop a few weeks ago for some plumbing issues (leaky group head seals
and broken check valve on the overflow side, I didn't feel ambitious
enough to rebuild the group). It's been working fine, but in the
mornings when I go to flush the grouphead, it seems to take a few
seconds to prime itself, and once it wouldn't prime at all. I took
the covers off to investigate, but once I put the water line back in
some water and turned it on to check, it was working again. I thought
maybe the input line was too close to the boiler causing the water in
the line to boil away leading to vapor lock, so I reassembled it with
some insulation in place. Seemed to work for a week or two, but this
morning it won't start up again. It's also been making different
noises when it's running. I tried blowing into the line, and sucking
on it to see if maybe there was something in the line I could jar
loose, but so far no luck. There seems to be complete resistance to
blowing in it, regardless of lever configuration, but then again I've
never tried that before so that may be perfectly normal.

Does this sound like it needs a new pump, or does it sound more like
it sucked something up and clogged itself? Or does it sound like
something else entirely? And what is the best procedure for debugging
everything? When it does prime itself, it seems to work perfectly.





 
Date: 15 Mar 2007 13:11:07
From: barooo@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Isomac Millenium: Broken pump, clogged line, or something else?
On 15, 11:46 am, "Dan Bollinger"
<danNObollin...@insightSPAMbb.com > wrote:
> > So, in that mess of parts, what is the specific part we're talking
> > about? I see #57, valvola non riturno, which sounds a little like
> > what I would expect "check valve" to sound like in Italian, but it
> > isn't right on or near the pump. Is the check valve internal to the
> > pump?
>
> There are two. One is what makes the pump work. The other is separate, and
> sounds like the one you have identified. There is also an expansion valve, which
> works a little like a check valve and purges a little water so the HX doesn't
> expand and crack with pressure, it has a return line to the water tank.
>
> Dan

So, what is the number of the one that makes the pump work, since that
sounds like the one that I need to replace?

Thanks!



  
Date: 15 Mar 2007 17:54:47
From: Dan Bollinger
Subject: Re: Isomac Millenium: Broken pump, clogged line, or something else?
> So, what is the number of the one that makes the pump work, since that
> sounds like the one that I need to replace?

It is integral to the pump itself. It is housed within the exhaust port on the
pump. When you change the pump you'll be fixing that problem, too. All piston
pumps require some sort of valving otherwise they'd just move the same water
back and forth. Dan



 
Date: 15 Mar 2007 05:36:37
From: barooo@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Isomac Millenium: Broken pump, clogged line, or something else?
On 14, 7:17 pm, "Dan Bollinger" <danNObollin...@insightSPAMbb.com >
wrote:
> Temporarily:
>
> www.claycritters.com/coffee/isomac-electrical.docwww.claycritters.com/coffee/isomac-exploded.jpgwww.claycritters.com/coffee/isomac-parts.jpgwww.claycritters.com/coffee/isomac-parts2.jpg
>
> Dan

Thank you.

So, in that mess of parts, what is the specific part we're talking
about? I see #57, valvola non riturno, which sounds a little like
what I would expect "check valve" to sound like in Italian, but it
isn't right on or near the pump. Is the check valve internal to the
pump?



  
Date: 15 Mar 2007 11:46:00
From: Dan Bollinger
Subject: Re: Isomac Millenium: Broken pump, clogged line, or something else?
> So, in that mess of parts, what is the specific part we're talking
> about? I see #57, valvola non riturno, which sounds a little like
> what I would expect "check valve" to sound like in Italian, but it
> isn't right on or near the pump. Is the check valve internal to the
> pump?

There are two. One is what makes the pump work. The other is separate, and
sounds like the one you have identified. There is also an expansion valve, which
works a little like a check valve and purges a little water so the HX doesn't
expand and crack with pressure, it has a return line to the water tank.

Dan



 
Date: 14 Mar 2007 09:34:03
From: barooo@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Isomac Millenium: Broken pump, clogged line, or something else?
On 14, 11:12 am, "Dan Bollinger"
<danNObollin...@insightSPAMbb.com > wrote:
>
> You may have to pull your pump and check it. If steam from the HX pushes past
> its checkvalve, it can vapor lock the pump.

Can someone point me to an exploded diagram or something that shows
where this check valve is? If I'm pulling the pump, it's getting
proactively replaced. And probably the pump too, because it does not
look easy to get to...



  
Date: 14 Mar 2007 19:17:24
From: Dan Bollinger
Subject: Re: Isomac Millenium: Broken pump, clogged line, or something else?
Temporarily:

www.claycritters.com/coffee/isomac-electrical.doc
www.claycritters.com/coffee/isomac-exploded.jpg
www.claycritters.com/coffee/isomac-parts.jpg
www.claycritters.com/coffee/isomac-parts2.jpg

Dan


<barooo@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1173890043.305382.311830@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On 14, 11:12 am, "Dan Bollinger"
> <danNObollin...@insightSPAMbb.com> wrote:
>>
>> You may have to pull your pump and check it. If steam from the HX pushes past
>> its checkvalve, it can vapor lock the pump.
>
> Can someone point me to an exploded diagram or something that shows
> where this check valve is? If I'm pulling the pump, it's getting
> proactively replaced. And probably the pump too, because it does not
> look easy to get to...
>



 
Date: 14 Mar 2007 07:13:31
From: barooo@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Isomac Millenium: Broken pump, clogged line, or something else?
I think that's what I just had fixed at the shop. How can I verify
this check valve's integrity? It would be on the pressure side of the
pump, or on the input side?

I do get a pretty good amount of steam when flushing, but I wouldn't
say it's abnormal. What's abnormal is the 10 second pause while
nothing comes out. The pstat is definitely not set too high.

On 14, 9:23 am, "Dan Bollinger" <danNObollin...@insightSPAMbb.com >
wrote:
> It could also be a bad check valve. When you flush after idle do you get more
> than a usual amount of steam from the grouphead? On your machine there are two
> check valves, one is on the pump.
>
> Make sure your pstat isn't set too high.
>
> I've had the same problem, which went away after letting the machine cool, but
> it then returned. It was a bad check valve, it allows the HX, which is
> pressurized, to leak back into the supply line.
>
> Sometimes this will result in tank water getting warmed.
>
> Dan
>
> <bar...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1173875222.488595.261590@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>
> >I have a 7 or 8 year old isomac millenium. It just got back from the
> > shop a few weeks ago for some plumbing issues (leaky group head seals
> > and broken check valve on the overflow side, I didn't feel ambitious
> > enough to rebuild the group). It's been working fine, but in the
> > mornings when I go to flush the grouphead, it seems to take a few
> > seconds to prime itself, and once it wouldn't prime at all. I took
> > the covers off to investigate, but once I put the water line back in
> > some water and turned it on to check, it was working again. I thought
> > maybe the input line was too close to the boiler causing the water in
> > the line to boil away leading to vapor lock, so I reassembled it with
> > some insulation in place. Seemed to work for a week or two, but this
> > morning it won't start up again. It's also been making different
> > noises when it's running. I tried blowing into the line, and sucking
> > on it to see if maybe there was something in the line I could jar
> > loose, but so far no luck. There seems to be complete resistance to
> > blowing in it, regardless of lever configuration, but then again I've
> > never tried that before so that may be perfectly normal.
>
> > Does this sound like it needs a new pump, or does it sound more like
> > it sucked something up and clogged itself? Or does it sound like
> > something else entirely? And what is the best procedure for debugging
> > everything? When it does prime itself, it seems to work perfectly.




  
Date: 14 Mar 2007 11:12:20
From: Dan Bollinger
Subject: Re: Isomac Millenium: Broken pump, clogged line, or something else?
>I think that's what I just had fixed at the shop. How can I verify
> this check valve's integrity? It would be on the pressure side of the
> pump, or on the input side?

One easy test is checking to see if the tank return line (silicone tubing) is
warm to the touch. This would ocurr after the HX has had a chance to heat up to
above boiling.

You may have to pull your pump and check it. If steam from the HX pushes past
its checkvalve, it can vapor lock the pump.

Dan

> I do get a pretty good amount of steam when flushing, but I wouldn't
> say it's abnormal. What's abnormal is the 10 second pause while
> nothing comes out. The pstat is definitely not set too high.
>
> On 14, 9:23 am, "Dan Bollinger" <danNObollin...@insightSPAMbb.com>
> wrote:
>> It could also be a bad check valve. When you flush after idle do you get more
>> than a usual amount of steam from the grouphead? On your machine there are
>> two
>> check valves, one is on the pump.
>>
>> Make sure your pstat isn't set too high.
>>
>> I've had the same problem, which went away after letting the machine cool,
>> but
>> it then returned. It was a bad check valve, it allows the HX, which is
>> pressurized, to leak back into the supply line.
>>
>> Sometimes this will result in tank water getting warmed.
>>
>> Dan
>>
>> <bar...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1173875222.488595.261590@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> >I have a 7 or 8 year old isomac millenium. It just got back from the
>> > shop a few weeks ago for some plumbing issues (leaky group head seals
>> > and broken check valve on the overflow side, I didn't feel ambitious
>> > enough to rebuild the group). It's been working fine, but in the
>> > mornings when I go to flush the grouphead, it seems to take a few
>> > seconds to prime itself, and once it wouldn't prime at all. I took
>> > the covers off to investigate, but once I put the water line back in
>> > some water and turned it on to check, it was working again. I thought
>> > maybe the input line was too close to the boiler causing the water in
>> > the line to boil away leading to vapor lock, so I reassembled it with
>> > some insulation in place. Seemed to work for a week or two, but this
>> > morning it won't start up again. It's also been making different
>> > noises when it's running. I tried blowing into the line, and sucking
>> > on it to see if maybe there was something in the line I could jar
>> > loose, but so far no luck. There seems to be complete resistance to
>> > blowing in it, regardless of lever configuration, but then again I've
>> > never tried that before so that may be perfectly normal.
>>
>> > Does this sound like it needs a new pump, or does it sound more like
>> > it sucked something up and clogged itself? Or does it sound like
>> > something else entirely? And what is the best procedure for debugging
>> > everything? When it does prime itself, it seems to work perfectly.
>
>



 
Date: 14 Mar 2007 09:23:46
From: Dan Bollinger
Subject: Re: Isomac Millenium: Broken pump, clogged line, or something else?
It could also be a bad check valve. When you flush after idle do you get more
than a usual amount of steam from the grouphead? On your machine there are two
check valves, one is on the pump.

Make sure your pstat isn't set too high.

I've had the same problem, which went away after letting the machine cool, but
it then returned. It was a bad check valve, it allows the HX, which is
pressurized, to leak back into the supply line.

Sometimes this will result in tank water getting warmed.

Dan


<barooo@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1173875222.488595.261590@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>I have a 7 or 8 year old isomac millenium. It just got back from the
> shop a few weeks ago for some plumbing issues (leaky group head seals
> and broken check valve on the overflow side, I didn't feel ambitious
> enough to rebuild the group). It's been working fine, but in the
> mornings when I go to flush the grouphead, it seems to take a few
> seconds to prime itself, and once it wouldn't prime at all. I took
> the covers off to investigate, but once I put the water line back in
> some water and turned it on to check, it was working again. I thought
> maybe the input line was too close to the boiler causing the water in
> the line to boil away leading to vapor lock, so I reassembled it with
> some insulation in place. Seemed to work for a week or two, but this
> morning it won't start up again. It's also been making different
> noises when it's running. I tried blowing into the line, and sucking
> on it to see if maybe there was something in the line I could jar
> loose, but so far no luck. There seems to be complete resistance to
> blowing in it, regardless of lever configuration, but then again I've
> never tried that before so that may be perfectly normal.
>
> Does this sound like it needs a new pump, or does it sound more like
> it sucked something up and clogged itself? Or does it sound like
> something else entirely? And what is the best procedure for debugging
> everything? When it does prime itself, it seems to work perfectly.
>



 
Date: 14 Mar 2007 05:39:21
From: barooo@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Isomac Millenium: Broken pump, clogged line, or something else?
Replying to myself here to add a little more info... After cooling
off, the pump reprimed and, um... pumped. I checked the water debit
and it looks like about 110ml in 30 seconds, although the flow coming
out of the group looked slower than normal.

Pumps don't cost much, my inclination is to just replace it and see
what happens, but I'll hold off for a day or two on ordering it,
assuming that it continues to work by any definition of the word
"work".

On 14, 7:27 am, "bar...@gmail.com" <bar...@gmail.com > wrote:
> I have a 7 or 8 year old isomac millenium. It just got back from the
> shop a few weeks ago for some plumbing issues (leaky group head seals
> and broken check valve on the overflow side, I didn't feel ambitious
> enough to rebuild the group). It's been working fine, but in the
> mornings when I go to flush the grouphead, it seems to take a few
> seconds to prime itself, and once it wouldn't prime at all. I took
> the covers off to investigate, but once I put the water line back in
> some water and turned it on to check, it was working again. I thought
> maybe the input line was too close to the boiler causing the water in
> the line to boil away leading to vapor lock, so I reassembled it with
> some insulation in place. Seemed to work for a week or two, but this
> morning it won't start up again. It's also been making different
> noises when it's running. I tried blowing into the line, and sucking
> on it to see if maybe there was something in the line I could jar
> loose, but so far no luck. There seems to be complete resistance to
> blowing in it, regardless of lever configuration, but then again I've
> never tried that before so that may be perfectly normal.
>
> Does this sound like it needs a new pump, or does it sound more like
> it sucked something up and clogged itself? Or does it sound like
> something else entirely? And what is the best procedure for debugging
> everything? When it does prime itself, it seems to work perfectly.




  
Date: 14 Mar 2007 09:07:02
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Isomac Millenium: Broken pump, clogged line, or something else?
at 7 or 8 years, it is time for a pump.

I'd do that first. and the 41 watt pumps work every bit as well for less
than the 52 watt.

and plastic end or brass ends? -- makes no difference

Dave


<barooo@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1173875961.445815.307940@y66g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> Replying to myself here to add a little more info... After cooling
> off, the pump reprimed and, um... pumped. I checked the water debit
> and it looks like about 110ml in 30 seconds, although the flow coming
> out of the group looked slower than normal.
>
> Pumps don't cost much, my inclination is to just replace it and see
> what happens, but I'll hold off for a day or two on ordering it,
> assuming that it continues to work by any definition of the word
> "work".
>
> On 14, 7:27 am, "bar...@gmail.com" <bar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I have a 7 or 8 year old isomac millenium. It just got back from the
>> shop a few weeks ago for some plumbing issues (leaky group head seals
>> and broken check valve on the overflow side, I didn't feel ambitious
>> enough to rebuild the group). It's been working fine, but in the
>> mornings when I go to flush the grouphead, it seems to take a few
>> seconds to prime itself, and once it wouldn't prime at all. I took
>> the covers off to investigate, but once I put the water line back in
>> some water and turned it on to check, it was working again. I thought
>> maybe the input line was too close to the boiler causing the water in
>> the line to boil away leading to vapor lock, so I reassembled it with
>> some insulation in place. Seemed to work for a week or two, but this
>> morning it won't start up again. It's also been making different
>> noises when it's running. I tried blowing into the line, and sucking
>> on it to see if maybe there was something in the line I could jar
>> loose, but so far no luck. There seems to be complete resistance to
>> blowing in it, regardless of lever configuration, but then again I've
>> never tried that before so that may be perfectly normal.
>>
>> Does this sound like it needs a new pump, or does it sound more like
>> it sucked something up and clogged itself? Or does it sound like
>> something else entirely? And what is the best procedure for debugging
>> everything? When it does prime itself, it seems to work perfectly.
>
>