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Date: 14 Mar 2007 05:42:33
From: Marshall
Subject: L.A. Times Covers the Clover
The cover page of the 3/14/07 Food Section has a big feature on the
Clover at Groundwork. The unnamed future Clover-ed shop in Silver Lake
will be Intelligentsia.

The always quotable Tim Castle comments "It remains to be seen whether
it can find a place outside the lunatic fringe."

Article here (may require free registration):
http://www.latimes.com/features/food/la-fo-clover1414,1,4322055.story?coll=la-headlines-food&track=crosspromo.

shall [cross-posted various places]




 
Date: 16 Mar 2007 18:10:42
From: Felix
Subject: Re: L.A. Times Covers the Clover
David (Ross) bought:
> It was only $140 for a carefully used TD-160,
> not a great fortune.

If I had found a deal like that, I might have stretched my budget.
Though with Barry's help, I paid about half as much for the Philips,
though it did need parts that cost about $20 as well as a cartridge.

> I thought you said you'd bought a SOTA?

Long ago, at well below the ket price, so I knew it probably needed
work. Fortunately, around that time, SOTA reopened with a business
plan that focused on selling refurbished 'tables to people who would
trade toward them. They also offered repair service, but the trade-in
deal was much more attractive. That's how I got a Sapphire with a
ceramic bearing upgrade.

The Philips is for a friend. It's a (very) late Christmas gift, and
not the first time my usual source for such things has helped me with
a mid-fi purchase. Hmm, maybe he's not as sane as I thought?


Felix



 
Date: 16 Mar 2007 16:17:52
From: daveb
Subject: Re: L.A. Times Covers the Clover
On 16, 6:31 pm, r...@math.hawaii.NOSPAM.edu (D. Ross) wrote:
> "Miss Penny" <penny...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>


 
Date: davebobblane@gmai
From: Re: L.A. Times Covers the Clover
Subject: .com>
.com

 
Date: 16 Mar 2007 06:09:14
From: Miss Penny
Subject: Re: L.A. Times Covers the Clover

> Just sold my '64JBLMetregonspeakers with matching Fisher

wow 40 year old junk. what did you get for it?








  
Date: 16 Mar 2007 22:31:09
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: L.A. Times Covers the Clover
"Miss Penny" <pennypey@yahoo.com > wrote:



   
Date: 16 Mar 2007 17:00:17
From: I->Ian
Subject: Re: L.A. Times Covers the Clover
On Fri, 16 2007 22:31:09 GMT, ross@math.hawaii.NOSPAM.edu (D.
Ross) wrote:

>"Miss Penny" <pennypey@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>


 
Date: 15 Mar 2007 21:28:15
From: Felix
Subject: Re: L.A. Times Covers the Clover
David (Ross) responds:
> Too late, I decided to go the mid-fi route and
> just bought a vintage Thorens.

That was a candidate when I was shopping for the 'table that I just
bought, but it was a little too expensive for my situation so I bought
a Philips GA-212 instead. Unlike most "high-end" audio dealers, the
one I know also sells more modest equipment. So I'll buy a cartridge
from him, and he's been supportive throughout the process.

> the cost and value seemed well-matched.

I think they hold their value too well, i.e. cost a bit more than
they're worth. In any case, I hope it turns (out) well for you.


Felix



  
Date: 16 Mar 2007 08:20:31
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: L.A. Times Covers the Clover
[Thorens]


 
Date: 15 Mar 2007 20:07:55
From: BillK
Subject: Re: L.A. Times Covers the Clover
I always have a coffee made by a Clover machine when I stop at one of
the coffee shops I like in the Twin Cities. The shop provides a large
selection of different beans at all times, as they always have. They
used to have a gang of pourover stations on a rack and a bunch of
press pots, and the customer could choose either method. They took
all that stuff out and now have two Clovers (which look pretty good
sitting next to the Synesso), I think the Clover is slick - same
great choice of beans, faster, and the coffee is excellent. Price is
the same, to the best of my recollection. The owner has a notebook
there, and if I want I can enter into it the machine settings for the
way I prefer the brew, and get it the same from time to time. I
haven't tried that, as I am satisfied with it the way they do it.
>From a customer perspective, there is nothing I dislike about the
Clover.



 
Date: 15 Mar 2007 11:09:03
From: ailevin
Subject: Re: L.A. Times Covers the Clover
On 13, 10:42 pm, shall <mrf...@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote:
> The cover page of the 3/14/07 Food Section has a big feature on the
> Clover at Groundwork. The unnamed future Clover-ed shop in Silver Lake
> will be Intelligentsia.
<snip >

The real news is the continued invasion from Seattle that is bringing
in excellent espresso technique. I stopped by Groundwork yesterday on
my way to a concert downtown because I was curious about the Clover.

After a pleasant conversation about the different coffees I could
sample, I had a nice very clean cup of Ethiopian. Coffee was a bit on
the cool side, but I am not fanatic about scalding hot coffee. It
reminds me of what I get from my Aeropress (no David vs. Goliath
intentions here just making a comparison).

The barrista, Diana (? I am terrible with names) was fairly newly
transplanted from Seattle with experience at one of Schomer's shops.
As I was enjoying my Clover cup and she was packing up the shop, she
offered me a truly excellent espresso. The only other place in LA
that consistently pulls a shot that good is Cafe Luxxe in Santa
Monica. When I mentioned that, she of course new the shop and the
owner since they had worked together in Seattle.

If you are in downtown LA check out the shop on Main street between
2nd and 3rd.

Alan



  
Date: 15 Mar 2007 18:27:17
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: L.A. Times Covers the Clover
On 15 2007 11:09:03 -0700, "ailevin" <ailevin@ix.netcom.com >
wrote:

>The barrista, Diana (? I am terrible with names) was fairly newly
>transplanted from Seattle with experience at one of Schomer's shops.
>As I was enjoying my Clover cup and she was packing up the shop, she
>offered me a truly excellent espresso. The only other place in LA
>that consistently pulls a shot that good is Cafe Luxxe in Santa
>Monica. When I mentioned that, she of course new the shop and the
>owner since they had worked together in Seattle.
>
>If you are in downtown LA check out the shop on Main street between
>2nd and 3rd.
>
>Alan

Yes, Downtown is really happening.

The Schomerites at the REDCAT Lounge in Disney Hall also pull a mean
shot. It's open most of the time, not just during concerts. I have no
problem at intermission getting from my seat to the Lounge (through
Level 2 of the garage) and back before the warning chime.

And in a few months a client will be opening a "drip-to-order" shop at
the Douglas Building Lofts on 2nd and Spring called "Lot 44 Coffee."

shall


 
Date: 15 Mar 2007 05:41:20
From: Felix
Subject: Re: L.A. Times Covers the Clover
David (Ross) found:
> something you can use on coffee equipment:
> http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina44.htm

After discovering that one of my electrical outlets was unreliable
because it was installed improperly, I reinstalled all the outlets and
duplex covers in my apartment. If these fancy covers came in an
oversized Decora style, I'd buy a bunch :-)

> I've been trying do some research prefatory to
> buying a new turntable

The one I bought a few months ago is still sitting partially assembled
in the middle of my dining room, on the floor, waiting for me to step
on it. The cartridge isn't due to arrive for a while, and the kitchen
counter is covered with grinder parts ...

Unfortunately, in the context of today's digital format war(s),
there's something inherently insane about extracting two signals by
running a diamond through a spiral groove molded in vinyl. (Maybe
that's why so many of my favorite recordings are monaural.) As you
know, doing this well does entail making a lot of good decisions.

My turntable vendor is sane, though I got my SOTA by letting someone
swindle me and then trading it toward a rebuilt Sapphire. Send me
email if you'd like a referral.

As for the Clover, if you avoid buying a CoE winner, you can try a cup
for a few dollars and have a better understanding of how well it
works. Whereas Doug Zell can reread their keting literature and
discover how he should be using his, though I get the impression that
he doesn't believe everything he reads. What it is and what it's meant
to be ...


Felix



  
Date: 16 Mar 2007 03:16:28
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: L.A. Times Covers the Clover


   
Date: 16 Mar 2007 01:38:14
From: notbob
Subject: Re: L.A. Times Covers the Clover
On 2007-03-16, D. Ross <ross@math.hawaii.NOSPAM.edu > wrote:

> in the next dorm room had during my first year at college. In any event, it
> seems to be simple and sturdy, about right for the frequency with which we
> listen to vinyl, and the cost and value seemed well-matched.



Just sold my '64 JBL Metregon speakers with matching Fisher 400 of the
same year, today. End of an era for me. (sniff)

nb


 
Date: 14 Mar 2007 20:17:11
From: Felix
Subject: Re: L.A. Times Covers the Clover
shall suggests:
> But, you may be missing the main function of
> the machine, which is to speed up the "drip"
> process, so that high volume shops can serve
> a variety of beans brewed to order to a line of
> impatient customers.

That wasn't my impression of the way Intelligentsia uses their Clover
when I visited their Millenium Park store. Though there was no line
the server suggested that I take a seat and wait for her to call me.
It's a big cup of coffee, so I wasn't impatient. However, I felt that
I couldn't sip it leisurely because it was served a bit cool. Maybe
they forgot to warm the cup, which was chipped!

On the other hand and much better: the "free" cup I got when I bought
a pound of Peruvian beans at their Monadnock store. I also like the
beans, even though they were a week old when I got them.


Felix



  
Date: 15 Mar 2007 04:10:07
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: L.A. Times Covers the Clover
On 14 2007 20:17:11 -0700, "Felix" <felixyen@hotmail.com > wrote:

>shall suggests:
>> But, you may be missing the main function of
>> the machine, which is to speed up the "drip"
>> process, so that high volume shops can serve
>> a variety of beans brewed to order to a line of
>> impatient customers.
>
>That wasn't my impression of the way Intelligentsia uses their Clover
>when I visited their Millenium Park store. Though there was no line
>the server suggested that I take a seat and wait for her to call me.
>It's a big cup of coffee, so I wasn't impatient. However, I felt that
>I couldn't sip it leisurely because it was served a bit cool. Maybe
>they forgot to warm the cup, which was chipped!
>
>On the other hand and much better: the "free" cup I got when I bought
>a pound of Peruvian beans at their Monadnock store. I also like the
>beans, even though they were a week old when I got them.
>
>
>Felix

http://cloverequipment.com/whyclover/why_clover.aspx

shall


 
Date: 14 Mar 2007 19:50:18
From: Felix
Subject: Re: L.A. Times Covers the Clover
David (Ross) writes:
> Is the coffee better if you replace the stock power
> cord with a $1000 oxygen-free double-wired cord?

No, but it sounds better :-) Expensive wire isn't as amusing as this:
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/tag/the-500-wooden-knob-31918.php


Felix



  
Date: 15 Mar 2007 06:58:00
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: L.A. Times Covers the Clover


 
Date: 14 Mar 2007 13:14:12
From: daveb
Subject: Re: L.A. Times Covers the Clover

> Actually I have a client who will be opening a shop like that in a
> couple of months. It remains to be seen how significant 90 seconds vs.
> 30 seconds is in the morning rush. Time will tell.
>
> shall

just drill more holes!

cost? $0.00



 
Date: 14 Mar 2007 08:28:06
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: L.A. Times Covers the Clover
shall <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote:



  
Date: 14 Mar 2007 17:05:22
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: L.A. Times Covers the Clover
On Wed, 14 2007 08:28:06 GMT, ross@math.hawaii.NOSPAM.edu (D.
Ross) wrote:

>shall <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net> wrote:
>
>


   
Date: 15 Mar 2007 05:13:24
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: L.A. Times Covers the Clover


   
Date: 14 Mar 2007 12:34:14
From: notbob
Subject: Re: L.A. Times Covers the Clover
On 2007-03-14, shall <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote:

> But, you may be missing the main function of the machine, which is to
> speed up the "drip" process, so that high volume shops can serve a
> variety of beans brewed to order to a line of impatient customers.

A local cafe has a narrow SS shelf with a half dozen holes that
accommodate Melitta-style drip funnels. Add grounds, add hot water,
different variety drip coffees in about 90 secs. Not exactly rocket
science.

nb


    
Date: 14 Mar 2007 18:13:51
From: Johnny
Subject: Re: L.A. Times Covers the Clover

"notbob" <notbob@nothome.com > wrote in message
news:t--dndPwoLmLr2XYnZ2dnUVZ_v6dnZ2d@comcast.com...
> On 2007-03-14, shall <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > But, you may be missing the main function of the machine, which is to
> > speed up the "drip" process, so that high volume shops can serve a
> > variety of beans brewed to order to a line of impatient customers.
>
> A local cafe has a narrow SS shelf with a half dozen holes that
> accommodate Melitta-style drip funnels. Add grounds, add hot water,
> different variety drip coffees in about 90 secs. Not exactly rocket
> science.
>
> nb
You're so right. Not new.
at Santa Cruz Coffee Roasters on Pacific Ave. they've been doing that since
forever. They call it a 'brew bar'.
google for
"brew bar"coffee

When I lived there early 90's I loved it.
*$ must have thought they had something going as they moved in right across
the road.
(*$ 1335 Pacific, SCR 1330 Pacific)

There's a coffe shop in Escondido
http://theespresso.com/dispCulture.php?id=160&type=2
that does it down my way as well as a slightly different version at Ryan
Brothers Roastery just down the road a few miles.




     
Date: 14 Mar 2007 20:57:19
From: notbob
Subject: Re: L.A. Times Covers the Clover
On 2007-03-15, Johnny <removethis.huuanito@hotmail.com > wrote:

> There's a coffe shop in Escondido
> http://theespresso.com/dispCulture.php?id=160&type=2
> that does it down my way as well.....

Yep. Pretty straight forward. The neat part is you can put anything
under the brewer. Foam thermal cup, recycleable paper cup, customer's
Japanese thermal SS vacuum enameled ultra fragilistic travel cup,
etc....

Sure, some purists here will argue (me included) the paper filter will
filter out flavor carrying oils, but how many coffee drinkers are as
anal us this crowd? OTOH, is this worse than the Clover that scrapes
off "most" of the grounds (near as I can tell from the video) and sets
up for a new brew cycle. What about the residual spent grounds in the
filter holes and the sides of the elevating bottom/filter plate? How
often do these get completely cleaned out? Sure, after a few cycles
the previous residual grounds may be so leached out they don't
contaminate follow-up shots, but how long does that go on?

I like the idea of micro-managing the brew cycle ...time, temp, water
amount, etc... but is the Clover really the final solution or just the
ultimate gimmick? Not condemning, just posing the Q. Flame on! ;)

nb


    
Date: 14 Mar 2007 20:10:10
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: L.A. Times Covers the Clover
On Wed, 14 2007 12:34:14 -0500, notbob <notbob@nothome.com > wrote:

>On 2007-03-14, shall <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> But, you may be missing the main function of the machine, which is to
>> speed up the "drip" process, so that high volume shops can serve a
>> variety of beans brewed to order to a line of impatient customers.
>
>A local cafe has a narrow SS shelf with a half dozen holes that
>accommodate Melitta-style drip funnels. Add grounds, add hot water,
>different variety drip coffees in about 90 secs. Not exactly rocket
>science.
>
>nb

Actually I have a client who will be opening a shop like that in a
couple of months. It remains to be seen how significant 90 seconds vs.
30 seconds is in the morning rush. Time will tell.

shall


  
Date: 14 Mar 2007 08:33:38
From: daveb
Subject: Re: L.A. Times Covers the Clover
OUCH!

[ my speaker cables are only $300 a 3 meter pair]

does it really cost over $3000 to make a CLOVER?
rule of thumb: Sell it for 3X the COST

reminds me of Novell, as ket share imploded, they raised prices.

but then, Intelligentsia knows exactly what they are doing. -- and I am
now sorry we moved out of Silverlake (L.A.)

db
226

"D. Ross" >
> I stopped paying attention to the Clover when people started arguing over
> which kind of whisk was best for it...at that point it was starting to
> remind me of the high-end audio community. (I also finally had the
> opportunity to see the machine in the flesh.)
>
> I see from the latimes article that the price has gone up 20% since then -
> does that mean that sales have not taken off? Can the company stay alive
> if
> they're selling fewer than, say, 10 per month? Is the coffee better if
> you
> replace the stock power cord with a $1000 oxygen-free double-wired cord?
>
> - David R.
>