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Date: 12 Aug 2007 17:02:42
From: Arty
Subject: La Cimbali Junior: ime of shots and temperature...
I got an old La Cimbali, about 1992, connected to water. Not long ago
I had to have the pump renewed by a mechanic at the local La Cimbali.
This was mainly done because the bar of the machine had dropped quite
a bit so there was almost no crema in the espresso shots.

Now the bar is ok. But this led to something else:
Unfortunately, and I don=B4t know how or why, two things changed: Now
the temperature is just 60=B0C or 140=B0F (before it was 90=B0C or 190=B0F)
and each shot just takes about 6 sec. SIX. (Before it was about 25
sec.) So the crema now is light yellow and the espresso is cold and
tastes bitter.

The mechanic admits that he doesn=B4t know how to fix the problem so
therefor I am here.

Does anyone here know how to adjust the temperature to about 90=B0C or
190=B0F and the time of each shot to about 25 sec.

Would appreciate all help.

Regards,
Arty





 
Date: 14 Aug 2007 05:30:11
From: Arty
Subject: Re: La Cimbali Junior: ime of shots and temperature...
Thanks for assistance.

I turned the screw on the the top with a blade type screwdriver and
got a higher temperature. That solved this problem.

Then I started to act on the grinding rather that more costly actions.
Turned out that grinding was the problem so now I have to tackle my
grinder or buy a new one. This one is a good and expensive brand but
seems to have gone wrong on the way.

Now I have perfect espressoshots from my Cimbali Junior, thanks to
your assistance.

Arty.


Ken Fox wrote:
> Arty,
>
> It is a little hard to understand your post. This may be due to language
> issues, as it appears you are posting from Iceland.
>
> I am going to make some assumptions in my response which may or may not be
> correct.
>
> You say your machine is "connected to water." I'm going to assume you are
> saying that this is a "D" model, one that is plumbed into the water from
> your city or municipal water district, and that there is no water tank
> behind in the machine. Of course, it has a boiler, but this is not a wat=
er
> tank.
>
> When you speak of "the bar," I assume you are speaking of the pressure th=
at
> the espresso shot is made with. It should be about 9 bar, which can be
> adjusted by the "overpressure valve" (OPV) in your machine that is just
> behind the front panel. Given the age of the machine, it obviously would
> have a vibratory pump. I have not used or owned a plumbed in vibratory p=
ump
> Junior and don't know about the exact plumbing for the overpressure valve=
in
> that sort of machine, but I don't think this is your problem in any event=
so
> it probably does not matter.
>
> You talk about temperatures, which I assume to be the temperatures of the
> expresso shots. How did you measure them? There are many ways to measure
> espresso shot temperatures, and they will produce very different results.
>
> I don't think there is any clear relationship between the temperature of =
the
> shot and the time it takes for it to pour, or the amount of crema within =
it.
> This is not to say that there is not a relationship, just I don't know wh=
at
> it is and I have never read anyone write about it. There IS a very stong
> relationship between the coffee that you use and how it is ground, and the
> time it takes for the shot to be made. If the coffee is not good and fre=
sh,
> it is hard to make good shots that have crema.
>
> There are not very many things that control the shot temperature in a
> machine such as yours. There is the pressurestat, which is like a
> thermostat but it works on pressure, and your machine likely has a
> Sirai-branded pressurestat on the right side as you face the machine. The
> temperature in the boiler is adjusted by turning a screw in the top with a
> blade type screwdriver. Another factor that controls the temperature is =
the
> functioning of the heating element. If it is not working properly or is
> about to fail, it might not heat the water up very well which could result
> in low temperatures.
>
> Another problem that is very simple to fix, is that you might need to
> replace your "vacuum breaker," often called the "false pressure valve."
> This is a small valve on top of the boiler whose job it is to release the
> air in the boiler when the boiler heats up. If it is not working properl=
y,
> you can get a situation where it appears to you and to the pressurestat t=
hat
> the boiler is heated up properly, but in reality it is not, as there is an
> airlock in the boiler. You can test for this by letting off some steam
> through the frothing wand (the wand on the left side). If you open up th=
is
> valve and you get a huge pressure drop on the front panel pressure gauge
> immediately, then that is the problem. Once you vent off all the "false
> pressure" through the frothing wand, your machine will resume functioning
> normally. If that is the case, the vacuum breaker needs to be replaced, =
or
> at least to be cleaned up and a new "o" ring put in place, as you will ha=
ve
> this same problem every time you turn on the machine from being cold. It=
is
> probably best to replace the part altogether in this case. Of course, you
> must turn off the machine and let it cool down before you attempt this so=
rt
> of repair, which is very simple and basically involves unscrewing the old
> valve and replacing it with a new one, from the top of the boiler under t=
he
> cup tray.
>
> Finally, It sounds like you need a new espresso machine mechanic:-)
>
> ken
>
>
> "Arty" <svartoghvitt@simnet.is> wrote in message
> news:1186963362.546821.278650@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> I got an old La Cimbali, about 1992, connected to water. Not long ago
> I had to have the pump renewed by a mechanic at the local La Cimbali.
> This was mainly done because the bar of the machine had dropped quite
> a bit so there was almost no crema in the espresso shots.
>
> Now the bar is ok. But this led to something else:
> Unfortunately, and I don=B4t know how or why, two things changed: Now
> the temperature is just 60=B0C or 140=B0F (before it was 90=B0C or 190=B0=
F)
> and each shot just takes about 6 sec. SIX. (Before it was about 25
> sec.) So the crema now is light yellow and the espresso is cold and
> tastes bitter.
>
> The mechanic admits that he doesn=B4t know how to fix the problem so
> therefor I am here.
>
> Does anyone here know how to adjust the temperature to about 90=B0C or
> 190=B0F and the time of each shot to about 25 sec.
>
> Would appreciate all help.
>
> Regards,
> Arty



  
Date: 14 Aug 2007 08:23:52
From: Ken Fox
Subject: Re: La Cimbali Junior: ime of shots and temperature...
"Arty" <svartoghvitt@simnet.is > wrote in message
news:1187094611.254445.249140@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
Thanks for assistance.

I turned the screw on the the top with a blade type screwdriver and
got a higher temperature. That solved this problem.

Then I started to act on the grinding rather that more costly actions.
Turned out that grinding was the problem so now I have to tackle my
grinder or buy a new one. This one is a good and expensive brand but
seems to have gone wrong on the way.

Now I have perfect espressoshots from my Cimbali Junior, thanks to
your assistance.

Arty.

Hi Arty,

I'm glad this helped.

Your problem with the grinder might be that you need new grinder "burrs,"
which are the grindstones that grind the coffee. They are generally not
very expensive, and are not designed to last forever. Someone who knows
what he is doing can replace the burrs on most grinders in about 15-30
minutes.

I would suggest that you have a look at www.home-barista.com ; a lot of the
technical discussions that used to appear here on alt.coffee appear to have
moved over there, to the forums.

Good luck.

ken




 
Date: 13 Aug 2007 09:59:35
From: lockjaw
Subject: Re: La Cimbali Junior: ime of shots and temperature...
On Aug 12, 8:02 pm, Arty <svartoghv...@simnet.is > wrote:
> I got an old La Cimbali, about 1992, connected to water. Not long ago
> I had to have the pump renewed by a mechanic at the local La Cimbali.
> This was mainly done because the bar of the machine had dropped quite
> a bit so there was almost no crema in the espresso shots.
>
> Now the bar is ok. But this led to something else:
> Unfortunately, and I don=B4t know how or why, two things changed: Now
> the temperature is just 60=B0C or 140=B0F (before it was 90=B0C or 190=B0=
F)
> and each shot just takes about 6 sec. SIX. (Before it was about 25
> sec.) So the crema now is light yellow and the espresso is cold and
> tastes bitter.
>
> The mechanic admits that he doesn=B4t know how to fix the problem so
> therefor I am here.
>
> Does anyone here know how to adjust the temperature to about 90=B0C or
> 190=B0F and the time of each shot to about 25 sec.
>
> Would appreciate all help.
>
> Regards,
> Arty

hello.

you need to make certain the pressure << at idle >> is within 1 to 1.5
bar in the boiler. (NOT when the pump is on) That determines the
temperature of the brew water and the group.

I'd look at a new pressurestat!

The golden rule 1.5 to 2 US ounces in 20 to 25 seconds, brew water at
198 to 203 going into the coffee.

Dave
www.hitechespresso.com



 
Date: 12 Aug 2007 23:55:54
From: Ken Fox
Subject: Re: La Cimbali Junior: ime of shots and temperature...
Arty,

It is a little hard to understand your post. This may be due to language
issues, as it appears you are posting from Iceland.

I am going to make some assumptions in my response which may or may not be
correct.

You say your machine is "connected to water." I'm going to assume you are
saying that this is a "D" model, one that is plumbed into the water from
your city or municipal water district, and that there is no water tank
behind in the machine. Of course, it has a boiler, but this is not a water
tank.

When you speak of "the bar," I assume you are speaking of the pressure that
the espresso shot is made with. It should be about 9 bar, which can be
adjusted by the "overpressure valve" (OPV) in your machine that is just
behind the front panel. Given the age of the machine, it obviously would
have a vibratory pump. I have not used or owned a plumbed in vibratory pump
Junior and don't know about the exact plumbing for the overpressure valve in
that sort of machine, but I don't think this is your problem in any event so
it probably does not matter.

You talk about temperatures, which I assume to be the temperatures of the
expresso shots. How did you measure them? There are many ways to measure
espresso shot temperatures, and they will produce very different results.

I don't think there is any clear relationship between the temperature of the
shot and the time it takes for it to pour, or the amount of crema within it.
This is not to say that there is not a relationship, just I don't know what
it is and I have never read anyone write about it. There IS a very stong
relationship between the coffee that you use and how it is ground, and the
time it takes for the shot to be made. If the coffee is not good and fresh,
it is hard to make good shots that have crema.

There are not very many things that control the shot temperature in a
machine such as yours. There is the pressurestat, which is like a
thermostat but it works on pressure, and your machine likely has a
Sirai-branded pressurestat on the right side as you face the machine. The
temperature in the boiler is adjusted by turning a screw in the top with a
blade type screwdriver. Another factor that controls the temperature is the
functioning of the heating element. If it is not working properly or is
about to fail, it might not heat the water up very well which could result
in low temperatures.

Another problem that is very simple to fix, is that you might need to
replace your "vacuum breaker," often called the "false pressure valve."
This is a small valve on top of the boiler whose job it is to release the
air in the boiler when the boiler heats up. If it is not working properly,
you can get a situation where it appears to you and to the pressurestat that
the boiler is heated up properly, but in reality it is not, as there is an
airlock in the boiler. You can test for this by letting off some steam
through the frothing wand (the wand on the left side). If you open up this
valve and you get a huge pressure drop on the front panel pressure gauge
immediately, then that is the problem. Once you vent off all the "false
pressure" through the frothing wand, your machine will resume functioning
normally. If that is the case, the vacuum breaker needs to be replaced, or
at least to be cleaned up and a new "o" ring put in place, as you will have
this same problem every time you turn on the machine from being cold. It is
probably best to replace the part altogether in this case. Of course, you
must turn off the machine and let it cool down before you attempt this sort
of repair, which is very simple and basically involves unscrewing the old
valve and replacing it with a new one, from the top of the boiler under the
cup tray.

Finally, It sounds like you need a new espresso machine mechanic:-)

ken


"Arty" <svartoghvitt@simnet.is > wrote in message
news:1186963362.546821.278650@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
I got an old La Cimbali, about 1992, connected to water. Not long ago
I had to have the pump renewed by a mechanic at the local La Cimbali.
This was mainly done because the bar of the machine had dropped quite
a bit so there was almost no crema in the espresso shots.

Now the bar is ok. But this led to something else:
Unfortunately, and I dont know how or why, two things changed: Now
the temperature is just 60C or 140F (before it was 90C or 190F)
and each shot just takes about 6 sec. SIX. (Before it was about 25
sec.) So the crema now is light yellow and the espresso is cold and
tastes bitter.

The mechanic admits that he doesnt know how to fix the problem so
therefor I am here.

Does anyone here know how to adjust the temperature to about 90C or
190F and the time of each shot to about 25 sec.

Would appreciate all help.

Regards,
Arty