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Date: 13 Sep 2006 16:32:27
From: Marc C.
Subject: Latte art with Silvia
Hey guys,

Just a show of hands here.. How many of you guys can make latte art
with Sylvia? I can't seem to do it. I gave up for a bit but decided to
start trying again. I think I pull pretty decent shots so perhaps it's
my frothing or pouring technique. I've tried so many times that I think
maybe it's hard to get good velvety microfoam with sylvia? I asked a
barista at a local cafe to make a latte for me and he did it without
effort. It made me think that perhaps it's tougher to do it with
sylvia.. He suggested perhaps I need a tip with 4-holes. What do you
Sylvia owners think?





 
Date: 11 Oct 2006 19:07:32
From: abimer
Subject: Re: Latte art with Silvia
Apologies for the triple post, computer probs...



 
Date: 11 Oct 2006 19:06:09
From: abimer
Subject: Re: Latte art with Silvia
One thing that people don't seem to mention is that the amount of milk
you use is quite a big factor.

Unless - and I don't know - maybe it's just me?

Obviously the amount is going to vary with the machine you use, the
size and shape of the pitcher you have and the fat content of the milk.
And your technique.

However, with my 600ml pitcher and Silvia, I find that 225mL of milk
froths perfectly for flat whites, and 200mL froths great for cappucino.


Maybe there are volumes of milk where the whole process is a lot more
forgiving on technique. But I find that with more milk, I get hot, but
less foamy milk. Less milk=extreme froth, less steamed milk.

I guess all I am saying is that if you're struggling with getting the
milk right, measure and experiment with the volume you are using, and
see if you get more consistent results when using the same volume. I've
found it useful for me. Others may disagree...

Paul.



c C. wrote:
> Hey guys,
>
> Just a show of hands here.. How many of you guys can make latte art
> with Sylvia? I can't seem to do it. I gave up for a bit but decided to
> start trying again. I think I pull pretty decent shots so perhaps it's
> my frothing or pouring technique. I've tried so many times that I think
> maybe it's hard to get good velvety microfoam with sylvia? I asked a
> barista at a local cafe to make a latte for me and he did it without
> effort. It made me think that perhaps it's tougher to do it with
> sylvia.. He suggested perhaps I need a tip with 4-holes. What do you
> Sylvia owners think?



 
Date: 11 Oct 2006 19:05:41
From: abimer
Subject: Re: Latte art with Silvia
One thing that people don't seem to mention is that the amount of milk
you use is quite a big factor.

Unless - and I don't know - maybe it's just me?

Obviously the amount is going to vary with the machine you use, the
size and shape of the pitcher you have and the fat content of the milk.
And your technique.

However, with my 600ml pitcher and Silvia, I find that 225mL of milk
froths perfectly for flat whites, and 200mL froths great for cappucino.


Maybe there are volumes of milk where the whole process is a lot more
forgiving on technique. But I find that with more milk, I get hot, but
less foamy milk. Less milk=extreme froth, less steamed milk.

I guess all I am saying is that if you're struggling with getting the
milk right, measure and experiment with the volume you are using, and
see if you get more consistent results when using the same volume. I've
found it useful for me. Others may disagree...

Paul.


c C. wrote:
> Hey guys,
>
> Just a show of hands here.. How many of you guys can make latte art
> with Sylvia? I can't seem to do it. I gave up for a bit but decided to
> start trying again. I think I pull pretty decent shots so perhaps it's
> my frothing or pouring technique. I've tried so many times that I think
> maybe it's hard to get good velvety microfoam with sylvia? I asked a
> barista at a local cafe to make a latte for me and he did it without
> effort. It made me think that perhaps it's tougher to do it with
> sylvia.. He suggested perhaps I need a tip with 4-holes. What do you
> Sylvia owners think?



 
Date: 11 Oct 2006 19:05:34
From: abimer
Subject: Re: Latte art with Silvia
One thing that people don't seem to mention is that the amount of milk
you use is quite a big factor.

Unless - and I don't know - maybe it's just me?

Obviously the amount is going to vary with the machine you use, the
size and shape of the pitcher you have and the fat content of the milk.
And your technique.

However, with my 600ml pitcher and Silvia, I find that 225mL of milk
froths perfectly for flat whites, and 200mL froths great for cappucino.


Maybe there are volumes of milk where the whole process is a lot more
forgiving on technique. But I find that with more milk, I get hot, but
less foamy milk. Less milk=extreme froth, less steamed milk.

I guess all I am saying is that if you're struggling with getting the
milk right, measure and experiment with the volume you are using, and
see if you get more consistent results when using the same volume. I've
found it useful for me. Others may disagree...

Paul.


c C. wrote:
> Hey guys,
>
> Just a show of hands here.. How many of you guys can make latte art
> with Sylvia? I can't seem to do it. I gave up for a bit but decided to
> start trying again. I think I pull pretty decent shots so perhaps it's
> my frothing or pouring technique. I've tried so many times that I think
> maybe it's hard to get good velvety microfoam with sylvia? I asked a
> barista at a local cafe to make a latte for me and he did it without
> effort. It made me think that perhaps it's tougher to do it with
> sylvia.. He suggested perhaps I need a tip with 4-holes. What do you
> Sylvia owners think?



 
Date: 11 Oct 2006 18:28:47
From:
Subject: Re: Latte art with Silvia


On Sep 13, 7:32 pm, "c C." <c.cu...@gmail.com > wrote:
> Hey guys,
>
> Just a show of hands here.. How many of you guys can makelatteart
> with Sylvia? I can't seem to do it.

Struggled to do it until I got the 4 hole steamer tip and then did it
on the first try with the new tip. Not great art but pretty good for a
person who was unable to do anything before. The tip is definitely
worth the investment.



 
Date: 19 Sep 2006 01:02:50
From: RBeech
Subject: Re: Latte art with Silvia
On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 16:32:27 -0700, c C. <c.cueto@gmail.com > wrote:

> Hey guys,
>
> Just a show of hands here.. How many of you guys can make latte art
> with Sylvia?

I like to think I can:

http://static.flickr.com/74/203548820_ef8222d984.jpg


> He suggested perhaps I need a tip with 4-holes. What do you
> Sylvia owners think?
>

I didn't like the 4holer I got from EPNW, but then, I am used to the one
holer...

R


 
Date: 16 Sep 2006 12:39:38
From: Andy Schecter
Subject: Re: Latte art with Silvia
c C. wrote:
> Just a show of hands here.. How many of you guys can make latte art
> with Sylvia? I can't seem to do it

Ko's tips are excellent. As he said, if you can start steaming a few seconds
before the light goes out, you maximize Silvia's "swirling" potential. Aside
from that, it's important to get the right amount of air into the milk during
the initial stretching phase, and then exclude more air from entering during a
vigorous swirling/heating stage.

Practice practice practice....

--


-Andy S.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/


 
Date: 16 Sep 2006 12:23:32
From: Andy Schecter
Subject: Re: Latte art with Silvia
c C. wrote:
> Just a show of hands here.. How many of you guys can make latte art
> with Sylvia? I can't seem to do it. I gave up for a bit but decided to
> start trying again. I think I pull pretty decent shots so perhaps it's
> my frothing or pouring technique. I've tried so many times that I think
> maybe it's hard to get good velvety microfoam with sylvia? I asked a
> barista at a local cafe to make a latte for me and he did it without
> effort. It made me think that perhaps it's tougher to do it with
> sylvia.. He suggested perhaps I need a tip with 4-holes. What do you
> Sylvia owners think?

From a week ago on Silvia:
http://static.flickr.com/93/244509764_6a28a12acf_o.jpg


--


-Andy S.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/


  
Date: 16 Sep 2006 13:41:56
From: Craig Andrews
Subject: Re: Latte art with Silvia

"Andy Schecter" <schecter@remove.me.rochester.rr.com > wrote in message
news:81SOg.41927$8j3.26538@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
> c C. wrote:
>> Just a show of hands here.. How many of you guys can make latte art
>> with Sylvia? I can't seem to do it. I gave up for a bit but decided
>> to
>> start trying again. I think I pull pretty decent shots so perhaps
>> it's
>> my frothing or pouring technique. I've tried so many times that I
>> think
>> maybe it's hard to get good velvety microfoam with sylvia? I asked a
>> barista at a local cafe to make a latte for me and he did it without
>> effort. It made me think that perhaps it's tougher to do it with
>> sylvia.. He suggested perhaps I need a tip with 4-holes. What do you
>> Sylvia owners think?
>
> From a week ago on Silvia:
> http://static.flickr.com/93/244509764_6a28a12acf_o.jpg
>


Beautiful Andy! I wish I was drinking that right now! {:-D
Cheers!
Craig.


>
> --
>
>
> -Andy S.
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/



   
Date: 16 Sep 2006 23:19:27
From: Andy Schecter
Subject: Re: Latte art with Silvia
Craig Andrews wrote:
> Beautiful Andy! I wish I was drinking that right now! {:-D
> Cheers!

Thanks, Craig, you're being very kind, but my feebleness is no match for a
real barista's pour:

http://static.flickr.com/57/167302382_260f98fe97_o.jpg

--


-Andy S.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/


    
Date: 17 Sep 2006 10:30:12
From: Bob Yellin
Subject: Re: Latte art with Silvia
Wow Andy! I'm impressed. Actually some of my better (not as good as yours) latte
art attempts were on my Silvia. I've never gotten a winner on my Andreja.

Bob

>Craig Andrews wrote:
>> Beautiful Andy! I wish I was drinking that right now! {:-D
>> Cheers!
>
>Thanks, Craig, you're being very kind, but my feebleness is no match for a
>real barista's pour:
>
>http://static.flickr.com/57/167302382_260f98fe97_o.jpg


     
Date: 17 Sep 2006 17:49:40
From: Andy Schecter
Subject: Re: Latte art with Silvia
Bob Yellin wrote:
> Wow Andy! I'm impressed.

Thanks, Bob. Although just to be sure, the first link I posted, in response to
k C, was my pour. The second link, in response to Craig, was Chris
Deferio's pour. I hope you didn't think Chris's was mine!

On second thought, if you thought that, go ahead, keep thinking it. :-)

-Andy S.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/


      
Date: 17 Sep 2006 14:39:53
From: Bob Yellin
Subject: Re: Latte art with Silvia
>Bob Yellin wrote:
>> Wow Andy! I'm impressed.
>
>Thanks, Bob. Although just to be sure, the first link I posted, in response to
>k C, was my pour. The second link, in response to Craig, was Chris
>Deferio's pour. I hope you didn't think Chris's was mine!
>
>On second thought, if you thought that, go ahead, keep thinking it. :-)
>
>-Andy S.
>
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/

YUP - I had the wrong one! But yours is really nice too! [foot in mouth]


 
Date: 16 Sep 2006 02:43:37
From: Ko
Subject: Re: Latte art with Silvia
c C. wrote:
> Does that mean you have the wand in the center pointing to the wall of
> the pitcher at 30 degrees? Or if my pitcher is already in a sort of
> triangular shape I let the steam hand be placed close to the wall of
> the pitcher?

Tilt the pitcher so that the wand and the wall of the pitcher forms a
30 degree angle with the tip of the wand close (1/2 inch) to the wall.

> Also, how deep do you immerse your wand in the pitcher?

1 - 2 inches, enough so that you don't stretch the milk anymore. You
have to try and find a sweet spot in depth that makes the milk roll
best. It is what mixes milk and microfoam together.

> Last question, how do I know if the problem is my microfoam or my
> pouring technique? I do notice that my microfoam looks velvety but at
> the bottom of the pitcher, it is more liquidy and the top of the
> pitcher is more foamy...

It might be both. Latte art is all in the wrist and understanding how
liquid reacts in a cup. I suggest you try with a large round bottom
cappuccino cup, the shape of the cup almost pours the latte art by
itself.

Just my own observations, after you are done preparing your milk:
1. If you see visible bubbles, latte art is not possible
2. If you see a cap of foam when spinning the pitcher, you have
stretched it too much. Try immerse the wand into the milk quicker. My
method is latte art @ 80F and Cappuccino @ 100F
3. Volume should increase by 50% after you are done.

Remember to knock your pitcher a few times on the table and spin it to
mix the foam on top and more liquid milk below together.

Practice and have fun....
BTW, this is were I started out my latte art knowledge quest
http://www.coffeegeek.com/guides/frothingguide/steamguide



 
Date: 15 Sep 2006 15:22:35
From: DaveW
Subject: Re: Latte art with Silvia

> > sylvia.. He suggested perhaps I need a tip with 4-holes. What do you
> > Sylvia owners think?
>

Well I got the 4 hole steam wand tip on my Silvia and it makes
micro-foam great. Unfortunately my latte art skills don't match up with
my micro-foam skills yet. I know for a fact its a ton harder than it
looks, but once yoou got it you got it.

I bet the stock tip will get it done fine... Practice makes perfect???

There are lots of us in the same boat it seems. Good luck!



 
Date: 15 Sep 2006 00:21:10
From: Marc C.
Subject: Re: Latte art with Silvia

Ko wrote:
> c C. wrote:
> > Hey guys,
> >
> > Just a show of hands here.. How many of you guys can make latte art
> > with Sylvia? I can't seem to do it. I gave up for a bit but decided to
> > start trying again. I think I pull pretty decent shots so perhaps it's
> > my frothing or pouring technique. I've tried so many times that I think
> > maybe it's hard to get good velvety microfoam with sylvia? I asked a
> > barista at a local cafe to make a latte for me and he did it without
> > effort. It made me think that perhaps it's tougher to do it with
> > sylvia.. He suggested perhaps I need a tip with 4-holes. What do you
> > Sylvia owners think?
>
> I have a Silvia and don't have a problem making microfoam and latte art
> with the standard tip.
>
> Here is how I do it:
> 1. Turn on steam switch
> 2. After 5 seconds, bleed water from steam wand until only steam comes
> out
> 3. Wait for 80 seconds and bleed water from steam wand before starting
> the frothing process. The trick is to start steaming about 5 - 10
> seconds before the light goes out to have the heating element on during
> the whole frothing process. (80 seconds is what I found to achieve the
> best results with my Silvia, you have to time yours but it should be a
> good ballpark number to start with) I got this tip from someone in
> Coffeegeek and found it to produce more powerful steam rather than
> waiting for the light to go off.
> 4. Put steam wand in cold pitcher and and starting the stretching
> process until about 80F and immerse the wand into the milk until 150F
> and stop steaming. I put the steam wand at a slight angle (maybe 30
> degrees) in the pitcher towards the side. IMO, the trick to get
> microfoam is after the stretching part. Make sure the steam makes the
> milk roll violently, sort of like aiming the steam into the bottom of
> the pitcher which pushes the milk down violently and deflecting it off
> the bottom of the pitcher and coming up top to begin the process down
> towards the bottom again. I hope you understand what I am trying to
> explain. Hehehe... Anyway that is how I acheive my milk to roll for
> the beautiful velvety microfoam.
>
> Have fun and practice, practice, practice.......

When you say, "I put the steam wand at a slight angle (maybe 30
> degrees) in the pitcher towards the side."

Does that mean you have the wand in the center pointing to the wall of
the pitcher at 30 degrees? Or if my pitcher is already in a sort of
triangular shape I let the steam hand be placed close to the wall of
the pitcher?
Also, how deep do you immerse your wand in the pitcher?
Last question, how do I know if the problem is my microfoam or my
pouring technique? I do notice that my microfoam looks velvety but at
the bottom of the pitcher, it is more liquidy and the top of the
pitcher is more foamy...



 
Date: 14 Sep 2006 09:30:24
From: Jenn
Subject: Re: Latte art with Silvia
I have a Silva and I can make microfoam with it. I use the method that
KO just described (except that I sink my wand at 100F). I just have the
stock steam wand for the Silva.

I'm trying to learn how to make latte art. So far it's harder than the
pros make it look, but last night I made my first Rosetta (pathetic
compaired to the beautiful ones that pros make, but I was pretty
pleased with myself). Lately I've been wating lots of pouring videos on
the internet. Apparently it's all in the wrist.

Good luck

Jenn


c C. wrote:
> Hey guys,
>
> Just a show of hands here.. How many of you guys can make latte art
> with Sylvia? I can't seem to do it. I gave up for a bit but decided to
> start trying again. I think I pull pretty decent shots so perhaps it's
> my frothing or pouring technique. I've tried so many times that I think
> maybe it's hard to get good velvety microfoam with sylvia? I asked a
> barista at a local cafe to make a latte for me and he did it without
> effort. It made me think that perhaps it's tougher to do it with
> sylvia.. He suggested perhaps I need a tip with 4-holes. What do you
> Sylvia owners think?



  
Date: 14 Sep 2006 19:48:31
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Latte art with Silvia
I use Silk and Costco's (made by Silk) soymilk, and it has proven to
be impossible to do latte art with it. It varies carton to carton but
even beyond that, it just makes a think foam which separates
quickly.

I mention that because at the Seattle SACAA show (2005), a very nice
fellow from the Seattle Barrista school used a Pacific Foods soy milk
made specially for the food industry, pulled a shot into a smallish
PAPER cup and poured latte art in it!!!!! I watched him do the entire
process and it was amazing. No, he wasn't using a Silvia.

But my first thought for anyone who has been at it for any length of
time and cannot get proper microfoam to do some sort of latte art am:

1- switch brands of milk
2- use another type of milk with more or less fat content.
3- play with the timing of the steam thermostat so as to get the most
steam for the longest period of time
4- try putting ice and water in the steaming pitcher to get it as cold
as possible before putting the milk in to extend the steaming time.
5- try steaming slower
6- try steaming faster
7- try to get someone who is good at it to come over and see how they
do it.
8- try to get a coffee shop to let you try it on their machine (off
hours or slow time?).
9- change the steaming vessel you are using to a different shape,
mass, or capacity.


Randy "bad gram and bad gramma" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com



"Jenn" <jennifer.wickman@gmail.com > wrote:
>
>I have a Silva and I can make microfoam with it. I use the method that
>KO just described (except that I sink my wand at 100F). I just have the
>stock steam wand for the Silva.
>
>I'm trying to learn how to make latte art. So far it's harder than the
>pros make it look, but last night I made my first Rosetta (pathetic
>compaired to the beautiful ones that pros make, but I was pretty
>pleased with myself). Lately I've been wating lots of pouring videos on
>the internet. Apparently it's all in the wrist.
>
>Good luck
>
>Jenn
>
>
>c C. wrote:
>> Hey guys,
>>
>> Just a show of hands here.. How many of you guys can make latte art
>> with Sylvia? I can't seem to do it. I gave up for a bit but decided to
>> start trying again. I think I pull pretty decent shots so perhaps it's
>> my frothing or pouring technique. I've tried so many times that I think
>> maybe it's hard to get good velvety microfoam with sylvia? I asked a
>> barista at a local cafe to make a latte for me and he did it without
>> effort. It made me think that perhaps it's tougher to do it with
>> sylvia.. He suggested perhaps I need a tip with 4-holes. What do you
>> Sylvia owners think?


   
Date: 16 Sep 2006 13:01:40
From: Andy Schecter
Subject: Re: Latte art with Silvia
Randy G. wrote:
> at the Seattle SACAA show (2005), a very nice
> fellow from the Seattle Barrista school used a Pacific Foods soy milk
> made specially for the food industry, pulled a shot into a smallish
> PAPER cup and poured latte art in it!!!!! I watched him do the entire
> process and it was amazing. No, he wasn't using a Silvia


Yup, here's a soymilk pour by Intelligentsia's Amber Sather (I think she was
using Soy Dream):
http://static.flickr.com/74/202295653_942c51c864_o.jpg

No, she wasn't using a Silvia, either. :-)


--


-Andy S.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/


   
Date: 14 Sep 2006 22:31:44
From: notbob
Subject: Re: Latte art with Silvia
On 2006-09-15, Randy G <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com > wrote:

> 1- switch brands of milk

Might try fresh soy milk. Fresh soy is unpasturized and unradiated
and unadulterated and un-whatever-they-do and only lasts a few days
despite refrigeration. It doesn't even taste like the crud in the
superkets. I get it in plastic pint bottles from Vietnamese
kets and is the only soy milk I'll drink. It's quite good. I
can't speak of it's foaming abilities, not caring much for lattes or
other foam based coffees. You might also try health food stores for
fresh soy.

nb


 
Date: 14 Sep 2006 07:30:31
From: Ko
Subject: Re: Latte art with Silvia
c C. wrote:
> Hey guys,
>
> Just a show of hands here.. How many of you guys can make latte art
> with Sylvia? I can't seem to do it. I gave up for a bit but decided to
> start trying again. I think I pull pretty decent shots so perhaps it's
> my frothing or pouring technique. I've tried so many times that I think
> maybe it's hard to get good velvety microfoam with sylvia? I asked a
> barista at a local cafe to make a latte for me and he did it without
> effort. It made me think that perhaps it's tougher to do it with
> sylvia.. He suggested perhaps I need a tip with 4-holes. What do you
> Sylvia owners think?

I have a Silvia and don't have a problem making microfoam and latte art
with the standard tip.

Here is how I do it:
1. Turn on steam switch
2. After 5 seconds, bleed water from steam wand until only steam comes
out
3. Wait for 80 seconds and bleed water from steam wand before starting
the frothing process. The trick is to start steaming about 5 - 10
seconds before the light goes out to have the heating element on during
the whole frothing process. (80 seconds is what I found to achieve the
best results with my Silvia, you have to time yours but it should be a
good ballpark number to start with) I got this tip from someone in
Coffeegeek and found it to produce more powerful steam rather than
waiting for the light to go off.
4. Put steam wand in cold pitcher and and starting the stretching
process until about 80F and immerse the wand into the milk until 150F
and stop steaming. I put the steam wand at a slight angle (maybe 30
degrees) in the pitcher towards the side. IMO, the trick to get
microfoam is after the stretching part. Make sure the steam makes the
milk roll violently, sort of like aiming the steam into the bottom of
the pitcher which pushes the milk down violently and deflecting it off
the bottom of the pitcher and coming up top to begin the process down
towards the bottom again. I hope you understand what I am trying to
explain. Hehehe... Anyway that is how I acheive my milk to roll for
the beautiful velvety microfoam.

Have fun and practice, practice, practice.......



 
Date: 14 Sep 2006 07:24:38
From: Omniryx@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Latte art with Silvia
I don't do latte art either, though I'd like to learn, and I no longer
rely on Silvia, having made the transition to Brewtus. But my
ex-barista buddy from across town makes very nice latte art with milk
from my Silvia. Fern-like thingies with maybe 25 "leaves" on them.

I suspect cockpit trouble. :) That's what it would be with me, for
sure.

Will



 
Date: 14 Sep 2006 01:53:42
From: Scrodge
Subject: Re: Latte art with Silvia

Hey, I don't have a Silvia but pouring your milk between jugs 2 or 3
times before you before really seems to help with the consistency
making it excellent for pouring latte art.
Hope that's some help. Also remember your grooming if your milks too
thick it's kinda bad for patterns I find.
Peace
Andy



 
Date: 14 Sep 2006 07:01:36
From: Jules
Subject: Re: Latte art with Silvia
> sylvia.. He suggested perhaps I need a tip with 4-holes. What do you
> Sylvia owners think?

I don't muck around with the art bit, but have no trouble getting
microfoam out of Silvia. Just the standard single hole steam tip on mine.