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Date: 08 Dec 2006 19:07:09
From: Herb Buschman
Subject: Like the La Pavoni Europiccola; Should I buy it?
I've tried the mocha pots and am not totally satisfied with the
results. For simplicity I like the La Pavoni lever machines.

But what about the results?

Your thoughts and experiences please.




 
Date: 09 Dec 2006 21:08:07
From: Herb Buschman
Subject: Re: Like the La Pavoni Europiccola; Should I buy it?
Once again great comments combined with outstanding links. Thanks to
everyone!

The more I learn about the machine the more I like it. And yes I must
also confess there is an element of curb-appeal or panache.

Now the next set of questions. Can I assume that the Stradivari are
newer version of the Europiccola and possibly have improvements? Or
are they more likely to have been cheapened?

Perhaps I'm not clear on the differences. Much of the material, and
comments, to date address the Europiccola models. Are the Stradivari
too new or is there another reason?


On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 19:07:09 GMT, Herb Buschman
<hbuschman@ravisloe.com > wrote:

>I've tried the mocha pots and am not totally satisfied with the
>results. For simplicity I like the La Pavoni lever machines.
>
>But what about the results?
>
>Your thoughts and experiences please.


  
Date: 10 Dec 2006 07:24:56
From: Donn Cave
Subject: Re: Like the La Pavoni Europiccola; Should I buy it?
Quoth Herb Buschman <hbuschman@ravisloe.com >:



   
Date: 11 Dec 2006 03:30:12
From: Chris Staley
Subject: Re: Like the La Pavoni Europiccola; Should I buy it?
On 10 Dec 2006 07:24:56 GMT, "Donn Cave" <donn@drizzle.com > wrote:

>Quoth Herb Buschman <hbuschman@ravisloe.com>:

>We gave away our Europiccola Pro a couple of years ago. It did have its
>drawbacks, but it really worked pretty well for us.

Yes, I was told all about this by the lucky recipent. I haven't
talked to her since she left Misys and moved on to greener pastures.
Tell her that Chris Staley says hello, if you talk to her any time
soon Donn.

As for the Pavoni's, I have one too (a re-labeled La Carina from
Zabar's, but it is a real Pavoni), and I really never use it any more.
It takes a while to heat up, and once it does you've got about a 5
minute window in which you can pull shots (3 max) before the group
heats up too much, and burns the coffee. I disagree that the pressure
gauge is ornamental. I found it to be a reliable indicator of when
pressure was coming up, and what would be an optimal time to pull the
first shot (right under 1bar of pressure).

If you like, I'll sell you my Carina (Really a La Pavoni Professional)
plus a La Pavoni conical burr grinder for $450. I'll even through in
a correct size tamper and knock box.

Chris


    
Date: 11 Dec 2006 16:34:50
From: Herb Buschman
Subject: Re: Like the La Pavoni Europiccola; Should I buy it?
Chris thank you for the generous offer but the more I investigate the
more I'm leaning towards the Stradivari with the pressure gauge.

Even though it may be expensive, I reason it has improvements,
hopefully over the Peacock, and of course it is new.

Good luck selling yours.

On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 03:30:12 -0700, Chris Staley <rcs914@yahoo.com >
wrote:

>On 10 Dec 2006 07:24:56 GMT, "Donn Cave" <donn@drizzle.com> wrote:
>
>>Quoth Herb Buschman <hbuschman@ravisloe.com>:
>
>>We gave away our Europiccola Pro a couple of years ago. It did have its
>>drawbacks, but it really worked pretty well for us.
>
>Yes, I was told all about this by the lucky recipent. I haven't
>talked to her since she left Misys and moved on to greener pastures.
>Tell her that Chris Staley says hello, if you talk to her any time
>soon Donn.
>
>As for the Pavoni's, I have one too (a re-labeled La Carina from
>Zabar's, but it is a real Pavoni), and I really never use it any more.
>It takes a while to heat up, and once it does you've got about a 5
>minute window in which you can pull shots (3 max) before the group
>heats up too much, and burns the coffee. I disagree that the pressure
>gauge is ornamental. I found it to be a reliable indicator of when
>pressure was coming up, and what would be an optimal time to pull the
>first shot (right under 1bar of pressure).
>
>If you like, I'll sell you my Carina (Really a La Pavoni Professional)
>plus a La Pavoni conical burr grinder for $450. I'll even through in
>a correct size tamper and knock box.
>
>Chris


  
Date: 09 Dec 2006 15:31:07
From: daveblows
Subject: Re: Like the La Pavoni Europiccola; Should I buy it?
Have you looked at the Gaggia Achille? It is a heat exchanger machine with
commercial sized filters. Water can also be added without waiting for the
boiler to cool. While I really like my peacocks, there are things that limit
their usefulness.
--
Robert (duck & cover) Harmon
http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
http://tinyurl.com/psfob
http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r

"Herb Buschman" <hbuschman@ravisloe.com > wrote in message
news:sv8mn29d07tffdqsih2la41eg1cjnrn3vh@4ax.com...
> Once again great comments combined with outstanding links. Thanks to
> everyone!
>
> The more I learn about the machine the more I like it. And yes I must
> also confess there is an element of curb-appeal or panache.
>
> Now the next set of questions. Can I assume that the Stradivari are
> newer version of the Europiccola and possibly have improvements? Or
> are they more likely to have been cheapened?
>
> Perhaps I'm not clear on the differences. Much of the material, and
> comments, to date address the Europiccola models. Are the Stradivari
> too new or is there another reason?
>
>
> On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 19:07:09 GMT, Herb Buschman
> <hbuschman@ravisloe.com> wrote:
>
>>I've tried the mocha pots and am not totally satisfied with the
>>results. For simplicity I like the La Pavoni lever machines.
>>
>>But what about the results?
>>
>>Your thoughts and experiences please.



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com



 
Date: 09 Dec 2006 11:54:52
From: Sheldon T. Hall - DO NOT MAIL
Subject: Re: Like the La Pavoni Europiccola; Should I buy it?
On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 19:07:09 GMT, Herb Buschman
<hbuschman@ravisloe.com > wrote:

>I've tried the mocha pots and am not totally satisfied with the
>results. For simplicity I like the La Pavoni lever machines.
>
>But what about the results?
>
>Your thoughts and experiences please.

I have an old La Pavoni clone called a "La Cara." It was built in
Spain for an American importer, but it's functionally identical to a
La Pavoni Professional, minus the pressure guage.

If you have a high-grade grinder and take the time to develop a proper
and consistent technique, you can make great espresso in those things.
It's a lot of work, though, and it's really difficult to get great
espresso consistently. A pump machine is _much_ easier to deal with.
Even a spring-lever machine would be easier.

However, if you see espresso extraction as a religious esperience, and
are willing to serve an arduous apprenticeship, the La Pavoni has
considerable panache.

-Shel


 
Date: 09 Dec 2006 18:54:33
From: Alan
Subject: Re: Like the La Pavoni Europiccola; Should I buy it?

"Herb Buschman" <hbuschman@ravisloe.com > wrote in message
news:2pdjn256kt71la6lrqnmp7e6b3rifosjcj@4ax.com...
> I've tried the mocha pots and am not totally satisfied with the
> results. For simplicity I like the La Pavoni lever machines.
>
> But what about the results?
>
> Your thoughts and experiences please.

I bought a used Europiccola (the one with the high & low heat settings ---
there are a couple of different configurations out there) and I love it. I
can't compare it to the Gaggias or the Rancilios or all those other
automatic, semi-automatic, or super-automatic pump machines out there, as
I've never used them, and perhaps I'd love them more if I had.

As far as "steep learning curves" that folks may mention, I didn't find it
particularly difficult to master. As far as "inconsistency of results", my
results are pretty consistently good; I might point out that "consistency"
doesn't seem to be the strong suit of many of the pump machines that folks
may recommend here ---- most seem to be able to attain consistency only
after they've retrofitted their machines with PID's or mastered
"temp-surfing".

In any case, here are a few websites that have some pretty good info about
how the Europiccolas work, and the best ways to use them. I found them to
be pretty accurate and pretty helpful:

http://www.lightlink.com/kazys/pavoni.html

http://www.gurus.net/pavoni/

http://www.pavoniexpress.com/

http://www.home-barista.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=704





 
Date: 09 Dec 2006 07:40:58
From: Danny Joe
Subject: Re: Like the La Pavoni Europiccola; Should I buy it?

notbob wrote:
> On 2006-12-09, Herb Buschman <hbuschman@ravisloe.com> wrote:
>
>snip good post

nb is right, of course.

But it is YOUR money. I moved on from the Pavoni for those reasons.
That doesn't mean i don't like firing the old bird up every now and
then.

Coffee is a complicated subject. It is not _always_ about what ends up
in the cup.

Make yourself happy

d (it is pretty) j



  
Date: 09 Dec 2006 10:34:08
From: notbob
Subject: Re: Like the La Pavoni Europiccola; Should I buy it?
On 2006-12-09, Danny Joe <dpiette@gmail.com > wrote:

> d (it is pretty)

Yes, they are definitely works of art. The quality of the chrome work
is breathtaking. I haven't seen chrome that good since the heyday of
British motorcycles with their triple layer ine grade chrome. I
can still polish mine up with nothing but a damp cloth to the point I
need sunglasses to look at it in direct sunlight. I suspect the
chrome is a very large part of the price.

So, there ya go. Get a PID Silvie for the espresso and buy a used Euro off
ebay to look at. For the price of a new Pro, you could pull it off. ;)

nb



 
Date: 09 Dec 2006 14:13:25
From: Herb Buschman
Subject: Re: Like the La Pavoni Europiccola; Should I buy it?
Well, so far I like what I've read. And look forward to any challenge
of mastering its use. My impression is it comes close, if not equal,
to the product from commercial equipment without the need to install
water piping and wait while the boilers heat up. I know it also has
a waiting period but not like the others and I don't need to keep it
running all day long.

So the question now moves to the model. I prefer the chrome but which
one? Is the Pro worth te extra money? How valuable is the pressure
gauge?

Thoughts or comments?

On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 19:07:09 GMT, Herb Buschman
<hbuschman@ravisloe.com > wrote:

>I've tried the mocha pots and am not totally satisfied with the
>results. For simplicity I like the La Pavoni lever machines.
>
>But what about the results?
>
>Your thoughts and experiences please.


  
Date: 09 Dec 2006 09:21:01
From: notbob
Subject: Re: Like the La Pavoni Europiccola; Should I buy it?
On 2006-12-09, Herb Buschman <hbuschman@ravisloe.com > wrote:

> Is the Pro worth te extra money?

None of them are worth anywhere near what they sell for, new. Buy one
used off ebay, where they go for less than half to a third of the new
price.

> How valuable is the pressure gauge?

It's useless. Strictly ornamental.


***** STOP THE PRESSES!! *****

Wait a freakin' minute! I just did a real quick price check on the
ol' Chrome Peacock. Holy crap! The price they are now charging for
these things has gone through the freakin' roof. For the price of a
Europiccola, you can get a PID Rancilio Silvia. For the price 1stLine
is asking for the LP Pro (the one with a gauge), you can get a non-PID
Sylvia/Rocky/base! I had no idea the prices had increased so much.

Listen, cuz I'm only gonna say this once and then I'm done. I'm
telling you true. Anyone who says you can consistently get great
espresso out of a La Pavoni lever machine doesn't know what great
espresso is. I had one for 5 years and I'll tell you right now,
they're a pain in the ass. Yes, they look cool as Hell. Yes, you'll
get a good shot of espresso ...when the planets are in proper
alignment and the bones are favorable. That's the end of it. My
Solis SL90 runs rings around it. My buddies PID Silvie makes espresso
better than is even possible from an LP. If you have the funds to buy
yourself a La Pavoni lever machine and you want to drink great
espresso, do yourself a great big ol' fat favor and buy a PID Silvia,
instead. That's my very experienced and not so humble opinion. You've
been warned. I'll say no more.

nb ...donning my aluminized crash/rescue suit

http://www.7tak.co.jp/images/z_alf_ka20001.gif


 
Date: 08 Dec 2006 18:21:29
From:
Subject: Re: Like the La Pavoni Europiccola; Should I buy it?
On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 19:07:09 GMT, Herb Buschman
<hbuschman@ravisloe.com > wrote:

>I've tried the mocha pots and am not totally satisfied with the
>results. For simplicity I like the La Pavoni lever machines.
>
>But what about the results?
>
>Your thoughts and experiences please.

Advise you research the machine carefully and read between the lines.
There are lots of devotees and lots of sites. Sometimes the opinions
are not realistic. This is not a simple tool to master. Gorgeous
though and an impressive show once you get it right.






_______________________________________
Please Note: If you find a posting or message from me
offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate.


 
Date: 08 Dec 2006 13:48:48
From: Danny Joe
Subject: Re: Like the La Pavoni Europiccola; Should I buy it?
Herb Buschman wrote:
> I've tried the mocha pots and am not totally satisfied with the
> results. For simplicity I like the La Pavoni lever machines.
>
> But what about the results?
>
> Your thoughts and experiences please.

Herb,

Not necessarily simple, but when you nail it, it is pretty nice. Expect
to waste some coffee as you learn. But the curve is pretty steep. There
are a couple of good websites out there:

http://turn50.blogspot.com/2006/11/espresso.html

is probably my favorite (though old. But then again, so is the
Europiccola) Google for other (and there are some Obsessive Compulsives
on a.c that can help, too)

I switched to a pump machine a while back (Silvia- >Rituale->Andreja
Premium) but have a soft spot in my heart (head?) for the Europiccola.
You can read about that here:

http://turn50.blogspot.com/2006/11/espresso.html

Danny (I am on the Espresso Path to Bankruptcy) Joe



 
Date: 08 Dec 2006 19:23:30
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Like the La Pavoni Europiccola; Should I buy it?
Herb Buschman <hbuschman@ravisloe.com > wrote in
news:2pdjn256kt71la6lrqnmp7e6b3rifosjcj@4ax.com:

> I've tried the mocha pots and am not totally satisfied with the
> results. For simplicity I like the La Pavoni lever machines.
>
> But what about the results?
>
> Your thoughts and experiences please.
>

Great machine if you've the patience to master it. I've posted several
topics about the peacock. Do a Google search for them.

Robert (Proud to own two peacocks.) Harmon
--
http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
Remove "Z" to reply via email.


 
Date: 08 Dec 2006 11:22:47
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Like the La Pavoni Europiccola; Should I buy it?
Nothing simple about operating, maintaining or getting consistent
results from an LP

any of 'em.

dave



  
Date: 08 Dec 2006 13:58:19
From: notbob
Subject: Re: Like the La Pavoni Europiccola; Should I buy it?
On 2006-12-08, daveb <davebobblane@gmail.com > wrote:
> Nothing simple about operating, maintaining or getting consistent
> results from an LP
>
> any of 'em.

Agreed.

nb ...Europiccola owner