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Date: 23 Sep 2007 15:26:55
From: LF
Subject: Livia 90: Is a great shot possible?
I can't get a really good shot from a Pasquini Livia 90 -- a double
espresso with thick reddish brown crema. I've adjusted the pressure
stat up and down, down and up, without success. I can get really good
to great shots temperature surfing a Gaggia Classic, Rancillio Nancy
or Starbucks Barista, with the same beans (fresh roasted *Daterra Farm
Reserve Espresso* from Atomic Cafe <www.atomicafe.com > ).

CoffeeGeek buzz reports otherwise: easy to get consistent good shots.
Understanding HX machines remains elusive for me. AFAIK, the
pressure stat regulates both pressure and temperature. I'm use to >5
second wait between pushing the button and the start of a pour. With
Livia 90, when I get the temperature high enough so that crema is no
longer that light ecru color, the pour starts much quicker -- maybe
after 2 seconds. Although drinkable, the shots are a bit thin at
best, and the crema never reddish brown.

My current method:
1.) Release steam until the red (boiler heating) light comes on.
2.) Pull a blank shot.
3.) grind (Rocky) 2 Tabs (coffee measure) of beans, tamp to 30# (as
measured by a bathroom scale), load portafilter into Livia.
4.) Pull the shot when red light goes off.

I use Cafiza to clean the portafilter and shower screen, and for
backflushing. I used RO (reverse osmosis) filtered water. If I can
figure out how to get better shots, than I'll investigate descalling
of HX.

TIA,
Larry





 
Date: 24 Sep 2007 11:53:10
From: LF
Subject: Re: Livia 90: Is a great shot possible?

> I'm not convinced you understand how the HX machines work.

Shots are improving, by following suggestions. Tell me, please, what
exactly does a pressure-stat measure? And, what is the relationship
between pressure and temperature?

Thanks,
Larry






  
Date: 24 Sep 2007 07:33:27
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Livia 90: Is a great shot possible?
A pstat measures the steam pressure in the boiler. There is a direct
correlation between temps and pressure, so instead of using a thermostat to
control boiler temps, some machines use pstats to control pressure. Don't
ask me why pstats are favored over tstats, but there must be a reason and
I'm sure someone can fill in the blanks for us on this.

--
Robert Harmon
--
http://www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj - My coffee pages.

http://www.tinyurl.com/2tnv87 - My 'Guidelines For Newbies' page.

http://www.tinyurl.com/2cr3e2 - I have things for sale here.

REPLY TO TEXAS_COFFEE AT THIS ISP EARTHLINK DOT NET
"LF" <fieman@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1190634790.433946.272720@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
>
>> I'm not convinced you understand how the HX machines work.
>
> Shots are improving, by following suggestions. Tell me, please, what
> exactly does a pressure-stat measure? And, what is the relationship
> between pressure and temperature?
>
> Thanks,
> Larry
>
>
>
>




 
Date: 24 Sep 2007 11:47:23
From: LF
Subject: Re: Livia 90: Is a great shot possible?

Does your Livia have a boiler
> pressure guage? If so it is fairly easy to find a sweet spot by
> watching where the pressure is before you push the brew button. I
> usually wait until the bar pressure needle is approx. 1.1-1.2 bars.

Yes. Livia90 has a pressure gauge. The markings are for 0.9, 1.5, and
2.5 only. I can estimate 1.1 to 1.2.

For your double PF I have found that
> exactly 14g works best

OK. I'll try that.


... using Cafiza to clean your PF and screen, when I
> have used that product I have had to flush the cafiza quite a bit to
> get the sour/bitter flavors out,

I've noticed the same. I also discard the first shot after cleaning.

. Descaling is easier than I thought it would be
> post again if you find success and I'll walk you through it.

Thanks, Joe. I'm making progress, and expect I'll eventually get it
right.



 
Date: 23 Sep 2007 22:20:30
From: JoeP
Subject: Re: Livia 90: Is a great shot possible?
On Sep 23, 8:26 am, LF <fie...@gmail.com > wrote:
> I can't get a really good shot from a Pasquini Livia 90 -- a double
> espresso with thick reddish brown crema. I've adjusted the pressure
> stat up and down, down and up, without success. I can get really good
> to great shots temperature surfing a Gaggia Classic, Rancillio Nancy
> or Starbucks Barista, with the same beans (fresh roasted *Daterra Farm
> Reserve Espresso* from Atomic Cafe <www.atomicafe.com> ).
>
> CoffeeGeek buzz reports otherwise: easy to get consistent good shots.
> Understanding HX machines remains elusive for me. AFAIK, the
> pressure stat regulates both pressure and temperature. I'm use to >5
> second wait between pushing the button and the start of a pour. With
> Livia 90, when I get the temperature high enough so that crema is no
> longer that light ecru color, the pour starts much quicker -- maybe
> after 2 seconds. Although drinkable, the shots are a bit thin at
> best, and the crema never reddish brown.
>
> My current method:
> 1.) Release steam until the red (boiler heating) light comes on.
> 2.) Pull a blank shot.
> 3.) grind (Rocky) 2 Tabs (coffee measure) of beans, tamp to 30# (as
> measured by a bathroom scale), load portafilter into Livia.
> 4.) Pull the shot when red light goes off.
>
> I use Cafiza to clean the portafilter and shower screen, and for
> backflushing. I used RO (reverse osmosis) filtered water. If I can
> figure out how to get better shots, than I'll investigate descalling
> of HX.
>
> TIA,
> Larry

Hi Larry,

I have a Bezzera BZ99 and a Bezzera BZ02 which have the exact
internals as your Pasquini Livia. Does your Livia have a boiler
pressure guage? If so it is fairly easy to find a sweet spot by
watching where the pressure is before you push the brew button. I
usually wait until the bar pressure needle is approx. 1.1-1.2 bars.
You shouldn't adjust your pressurestat below 1.2bars and if you so
have a boiler guage its easy to temp surf anyways. If you don't have a
pressure guage I would wait for at least 5 seconds after the light
goes out before pulling the shot. For your double PF I have found that
exactly 14g works best, obviously you'll have to adjust your grind
level and tamp pressure to get the shot time where you like it. You
mention that you are using Cafiza to clean your PF and screen, when I
have used that product I have had to flush the cafiza quite a bit to
get the sour/bitter flavors out, perhaps you are using too much
detergent too often. Descaling is easier than I thought it would be
post again if you find success and I'll walk you through it. The Livia
90 should be extremely easy to pull consitantly good shots, if you
continue to have problems you might have a problem with your machine.
Good luck.


Joe
www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com
"where friends get together and split bags of coffee"



 
Date: 24 Sep 2007 02:08:55
From: LF
Subject: Re: Livia 90: Is a great shot possible?
On Sep 23, 9:31 pm, "Michael D. Sullivan"
<use...@camsul.example.invalid > wrote:
>
<snip >
the key to getting great espresso out of it is great, freshly roasted
beans.

Got that, from an award winning local roaster: Atomic Cafe.


As to
> the flush, I find that when I flush it the water comes out furiously
> bubbling and then after 5-10 seconds slows way down. That's where it
> needs to be. This could be 1 ounce, it could be 3 ounces; it all
> depends on how overheated it is. With great fresh beans, properly
> ground (Rocky) and tamped, I get an excellent espresso with lots of
> reddish-brown crema.

Thanks Michael. Some HX users flush, then let espresso machine come
back up to temperature before pulling the shot. What is your espresso
routine? Do you give the Livia 30 seconds to come back up to
temperature after the flush?

Best,
Larry



  
Date: 24 Sep 2007 02:19:41
From: Michael D. Sullivan
Subject: Re: Livia 90: Is a great shot possible?
On 9/23/2007 10:08 PM, LF wrote:
> On Sep 23, 9:31 pm, "Michael D. Sullivan"
> <use...@camsul.example.invalid> wrote:
> <snip>
> the key to getting great espresso out of it is great, freshly roasted
> beans.
>
> Got that, from an award winning local roaster: Atomic Cafe.
>
>
> As to
>> the flush, I find that when I flush it the water comes out furiously
>> bubbling and then after 5-10 seconds slows way down. That's where it
>> needs to be. This could be 1 ounce, it could be 3 ounces; it all
>> depends on how overheated it is. With great fresh beans, properly
>> ground (Rocky) and tamped, I get an excellent espresso with lots of
>> reddish-brown crema.
>
> Thanks Michael. Some HX users flush, then let espresso machine come
> back up to temperature before pulling the shot. What is your espresso
> routine? Do you give the Livia 30 seconds to come back up to
> temperature after the flush?

I just wait until the heating light goes off, which only takes a few
seconds.


--
Michael D. Sullivan
Bethesda, MD (USA)
(To reply, change example.invalid to com in the address.)


 
Date: 24 Sep 2007 01:31:16
From: Michael D. Sullivan
Subject: Re: Livia 90: Is a great shot possible?
Larry, I've had a Livia 90 semiauto for several years and the key to
getting great espresso out of it is great, freshly roasted beans. As to
the flush, I find that when I flush it the water comes out furiously
bubbling and then after 5-10 seconds slows way down. That's where it
needs to be. This could be 1 ounce, it could be 3 ounces; it all
depends on how overheated it is. With great fresh beans, properly
ground (Rocky) and tamped, I get an excellent espresso with lots of
reddish-brown crema.

For beans, I get Shot Tower Espresso from www.zekescoffee.com in
Baltimore, which I recommend highly.

--
Michael D. Sullivan
Bethesda, MD (USA)
(To reply, change example.invalid to com in the address.)


 
Date: 23 Sep 2007 23:29:29
From: lockjaw
Subject: Re: Livia 90: Is a great shot possible?
On Sep 23, 1:18 pm, Danny <da...@nospam.gaggia-espresso.com > wrote:
> lockjaw wrote:
>
> -snip-
>
> > and your GRINDER is? and the coffee? (more important by far.)
>
> fresh roasted Daterra Farm Reserve Espresso and a Rocky, as in the OP.
>
> --
> Regards, Danny
>
> http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
> (apparently bad grammar but I like it that way...)

**** duh. well reading is, uh, not a strong point -- at least today,
I guess.

The rocky should be capable.



 
Date: 23 Sep 2007 16:57:27
From: lockjaw
Subject: Re: Livia 90: Is a great shot possible?

>
> Exactly. I have lots to learn. Thanks for your help.
>
> Best,
> Larry

What is the exact amount of 'flushing' needed?

Larry, no one knows. It varies with:
* ambient temp
* water temp
* from make to make
* and model to model
* and each machine and its condition.

an example vast trove of info. from informed sources is available at:

http://www.home-barista.com/forums/theory-behind-flushing-e61-hx-machine-t4862.html

among others.

and your GRINDER is? and the coffee? (more important by far.)

Dave
www.hitechespresso.com



  
Date: 23 Sep 2007 18:18:38
From: Danny
Subject: Re: Livia 90: Is a great shot possible?
lockjaw wrote:
-snip-
> and your GRINDER is? and the coffee? (more important by far.)

fresh roasted Daterra Farm Reserve Espresso and a Rocky, as in the OP.


--
Regards, Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
(apparently bad grammar but I like it that way...)



 
Date: 23 Sep 2007 16:11:17
From: LF
Subject: Re: Livia 90: Is a great shot possible?
On Sep 23, 11:57 am, "Robert Harmon" <R_H_HAR...@YAHOO.COM > wrote:
> Howdy Larry!
> I'm not convinced you understand how the HX machines work.

Exactly. I have lots to learn. Thanks for your help.

Best,
Larry



 
Date: 23 Sep 2007 10:57:52
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Livia 90: Is a great shot possible?
Howdy Larry!
I'm not convinced you understand how the HX machines work. If I'm wrong &
this is all familiar territory then I apologize for wasting your time.

The boiler of the HX machines are held at 1.2- 1.5 bar pressure. This
equates to VERY hot water in the boiler & lots of steam. The HX tube is
routed through this super-hot water, and when you start the pump fresh cool
water is pushed through the HX & into the group.

This cool water is flash heated by the HX's contact with the hot water in
the boiler. All's well & good, right? Well, yes & no. When the HX machine
sits idle the water in the HX is getting hotter & hotter - not good for
espresso. Just pulling a blank shot doesn't run enough cool water through
the HX to flush out the existing hot water or permit the HX to return to
normal operating temps.

What's needed more than a blank shot is a cooling flush (AKA - water dance)
of anywhere from 15 to 30 seconds. This will permit the HX to operate as it
was designed; in a coffee shop it's in constant use and water doesn't have a
chance to super-heat in the HX.

--
Robert Harmon
--
http://www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj - My coffee pages.

http://www.tinyurl.com/2tnv87 - My 'Guidelines For Newbies' page.

http://www.tinyurl.com/2cr3e2 - I have things for sale here.

REPLY TO TEXAS_COFFEE AT THIS ISP EARTHLINK DOT NET
"LF" <fieman@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1190561215.568095.210580@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
>I can't get a really good shot from a Pasquini Livia 90 -- a double
> espresso with thick reddish brown crema. I've adjusted the pressure
> stat up and down, down and up, without success. I can get really good
> to great shots temperature surfing a Gaggia Classic, Rancillio Nancy
> or Starbucks Barista, with the same beans (fresh roasted *Daterra Farm
> Reserve Espresso* from Atomic Cafe <www.atomicafe.com> ).
>
snipped
>
> TIA,
> Larry
>