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Date: 08 Jan 2007 21:19:27
From: shane
Subject: Luwak makes it to Minnesota
I know this topic has probably been posted before. It is amazing how
the news media seems to discover Kopi Luwak coffee every six months or
so. My local news channel just had a story on the new discovery this
evening.

A specialty coffee roaster in Minneapolis is selling Kopi Luwak coffee
for $420 a pound or $10 per 8oz cup.

I find it interesting that the world wide production of Luwak coffee is
anywhere from 200 to 1000 pounds or Kilograms. The price is from $100
to $600.

I did see a new photo today. Paradise Coffee from Indonesia had a
picture of a small animal in a coffee tree.

Anyone know if it really exists?

Shane





 
Date: 10 Jan 2007 21:50:20
From: Felix
Subject: Re: Luwak makes it to Minnesota
Cea (b...@smithfarms.com) writes:
> I believe Kauai is a different cultivar, certainly a different
> exposure and a different soil--just totally different.

Kauai Coffee harvests several, and claims that one is from Kona:
http://www.kauaicoffee.com/faq.asp#q12

If they still sell each one at their Visitor Center, it's a great
opportunity to get some insight into the importance of cultivars.


Felix



  
Date: 11 Jan 2007 06:42:58
From:
Subject: Re: Luwak makes it to Minnesota
On 10 Jan 2007 21:50:20 -0800, "Felix" <felixyen@hotmail.com > wrote:

>Cea (b...@smithfarms.com) writes:
>> I believe Kauai is a different cultivar, certainly a different
>> exposure and a different soil--just totally different.
>
>Kauai Coffee harvests several, and claims that one is from Kona:
>http://www.kauaicoffee.com/faq.asp#q12
>
>If they still sell each one at their Visitor Center, it's a great
>opportunity to get some insight into the importance of cultivars.
>
>
>Felix

Wow that was very interesting to read:). A couple of points, even
thought they might grow Kona seeds, it won't taste like Kona. We have
a different soil here, a different microclimate etc. We also have such
different agricultural practices! We hand pick every 3 weeks. They
only (mechanically) harvest once a year and I can't imagine what that
one time swipe must give.They re-plant every 25 or 30 years although
they haven't been in business that long. Wonder how they know that?
Our Kona trees out the door, are over 100 years old and they are
vigorous.

I thought it was interesting that they say all 600 farmers in Kona
sell to processors. We don't. And the most interesting point was
their justifying their use of everything that comes in from their
(mechanical) one time picking. washed natural? etc.

Thanks for pointing out the site. I do not mind the company, I
promise. My own brother works for their parent company. I just think
they have clever writers.

aloha,
Cea
beansatsmithfarms.com
farmers of pure kona
roast beans to kona to email


 
Date: 10 Jan 2007 17:26:35
From: JoeP
Subject: Re: Luwak makes it to Minnesota

Barry Jarrett wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 09:38:51 -1000, beans@smithfarms.com wrote:
>
> >I believe I know cats and mongooses pretty well, and they are not
> >omnivores.
> >
>
> well, the palm civet is (again, it is not a cat):
>
> "The Common Palm Civet is a nocturnal omnivore. Its priy food
> source is fruit such as chiku, mango, and rambutan and it has a
> fondness for palm flower sap, which when fermented, becomes toddy, a
> sweet liquor."
>
> --wikipedia

I love wikipedia. Yeah that might explain some of the fruitiness in the
cup ;-) . One thing is for sure this coffee isn't weak at all and will
definately give you a caffiene buzz if your sensitive to the effects of
caffiene. I am supposing because of the small percentage of robusta but
it might be because of other reasons.

Joe



 
Date: 10 Jan 2007 12:08:43
From: JoeP
Subject: Re: Luwak makes it to Minnesota


>
> Sorry not to agree Joe, but I know some people do believe in Kopi
> Luwak. Go for it. I also do not go to sites where I have to log in
> etc. Call me ridiculous. I get *oh too much* spam, and I protect my
> computer, with my life, at all times because it is so important. I am
> just cautious.
>
> Have fun on Kauai! Kauai is beautiful and the oldest of our 8 major
> islands. I live on the furthest south, the "newest". Kauai is such a
> different coffee from Kona. It is mechanized from picking to pruning.
> We do all of Kona by hand. I believe Kauai is a different cultivar,
> certainly a different exposure and a different soil--just totally
> different.
>
> No, thank you for asking:), but we only sell our coffee via the
> Internet, no product samples anywhere else. It is just Bob and me and
> we already feel exhausted at times.
>
> Have a good trip.
>
> aloha,
> Cea
> beansatsmithfarms.com
> farmers of pure kona
> roast beans to kona to email


Well your not rediculous but we don't spam it's a green coffee buying
club. Alt.coffee sends me more spam than anything else coffee related,
its just like CG or the other forum sites that make you setup a profile
etc.... I do completely understand your hesistation to join yet another
group and really there isn't a need for you to join anyways as you are
a coffee farmer, and have access to all the coffee you can stand ;-) ,
other than access to the forums which allow us to post pictures of
really real Kopi Lewak.

I have told you in the past about my property in Lihue, Kauai and you
let me know about your family that worked in the sugar mill. So if I
order coffee from you now will it reach Kauai in time for me to enjoy
it while I'm on vacation? I have had Lions gate kona which is offered
on our site but I am curious to see/taste what the difference would be.

I can't wait to put my surfboard in the water in Anahola, maybe there
might be enough south swell to hit kalapaki beach when I arrive.

Joe
www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com



  
Date: 10 Jan 2007 17:48:54
From: Steve Ackman
Subject: Re: Luwak makes it to Minnesota
In <1168459723.154043.109140@p59g2000hsd.googlegroups.com >, on 10 Jan
2007 12:08:43 -0800, JoeP wrote:
>
> its just like CG or the other forum sites that make you setup a profile
> etc....

Actually, there's a major difference. CG doesn't
require you to register just to read. You only register
if you want to post.



  
Date: 10 Jan 2007 15:28:58
From: Serge Dasara
Subject: Re: Luwak makes it to Minnesota
On 10 Jan 2007 12:08:43 -0800, JoeP typed:

>
> Alt.coffee sends me more spam than anything else coffee related,
> its just like CG or the other forum sites that make you setup a profile
> etc....

alt.coffee is not "sending" you, or anyone anything - much less spam.
It is not a "forum" nor is there a "profile" to be set up. There may
be "spiders" that scour the newsgroups for email addresses, but most
of us mung our addresses to avoid this.

alt.coffee is a Usenet newsgroup distributed freely over the internet
through a series of news-servers, and all that it takes to access it
is a free news-server and a free news-reader.

And, FWIW, I also immediately click off of web sites that require
registration...
--
Cordially,

Serge Dasara
1/10/2007 3:13:58 PM


 
Date: 10 Jan 2007 06:39:58
From: shane
Subject: Re: Luwak makes it to Minnesota
The photos that Jay posted are impressive. I still reamain
skeptical, I guess I would need an independant scientific analysis of
the pre-processed turd to know that it was formed by going through an
animal.
How do you know that some enterprising coffee farmer has not hand
manufactured the "turds" to create authentic looking photos? A little
mud, some mule dung, roll it into shapes, take photos for the gullable
Americans, and sell my coffee at a hundered fold kup. In their
position, I would probaly do the same.
The inconsistent pricing of Kopi Luwak from various supplies and
the sheer number of web-sites claiming to have "real" luwak coffee for
sale lead me to believe that a good percentage of Luwak coffee sold is
not authentic.
What I find amusing is the regularity that news organizations
regularly do stories on Kopi Luwak without the slightest bit of
skepticism and like it is a new thing.

Shane



 
Date: 09 Jan 2007 21:35:44
From: JoeP
Subject: Re: Luwak makes it to Minnesota

Felix wrote:
> Alan writes:
> > I don't think the palm civet cared about the arabica vs. robusta
> > debate, just the taste of the fruit.
>
> I've always (rashly) assumed that the palm civet preferred coffee
> cherries that were alcoholic, and recently learned that the species is
> also known as "toddy cat" because of its affection for *fermented* palm
> sap. The beans ingested by wild civets might be selected more carefully
> than usual, so I suspect that the myth has a legitimate basis. On the
> other hand, this must be one of the easiest products to counterfeit.
> Supply and demand ...de gustibus non est disputandum :-)
>
>
> Felix

Perhaps, But the appearance of the coffee is much different because of
the processing and it would be pretty obvious if it was blended in any
way.

Someone else mentioned the robusta, and yes they do eat robusta with
the arabica we noticed this in our green Lewak, but it was definately a
small amount of robusta compared to the Arabica. The robusta is obvious
also because of its contrasting shape and size. But it definately was
good regardless of the small amount of robusta.

Joe
www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com



 
Date: 09 Jan 2007 21:29:04
From: JoeP
Subject: Re: Luwak makes it to Minnesota

b...@smithfarms.com wrote:
> Keep up your skepticism Shane! I remain doubtful too. I looked at
> Craig's photos- just a civet cat:), and don't have time to get into
> Joe's buying club, but I know cats and I know coffee. Even pigs do
> not eat coffee bans. Why would a cat apparently locked in a cage,
> ever eat coffee beans. Starving wouldn't do it.The fruit would rot
> before the starving cat ever considered eating the only thing in its
> cage.
>
> And a personal supplier in Indonesia, with all due respect Joe, I bet
> you could buy a lot of anything with a personal supplier. We have
> people like that here. "What do you want?", and "Oh, we can get it
> for you." I am not trying to be argumentative, I promise.
>
> I think and most alties will groan, that it is a scam. I once
> contacted a UH Professor of Animal Science and he said he doubted the
> possibility of any cat like creature eating coffee beans.
>
> Sorry for my perpetual rant.
>
> aloha,
> Cea
> beansatsmithfarms.com
> farmers of pure kona
> roast beans to kona to email

hahaha.... Cea, come on! your going to go this far with the "its not
real" speach without even seeing the photos. Jay's photos show the
actual wet turds on the ground then the harvested dry turds then how
they prep them. Its very disgusting looking but it tastes great I
promise. As far as personal suppliers, I think you could fall into that
mold and we all trust you dont we? But trust me we were very skeptical
and I didn't even get some until after the first distribution just to
make sure, one of our members had tried Kopi Lewak prior and he was the
direct contact with Jay. By the way I'll be in Kauai in two days is
there anyplace I can try your product? I plan on grabbing some samples
from Kauai coffee co. If you check out my link its actually one page
back that has all the poop photos. Don't knock it until you try it.

Joe
www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com



  
Date: 10 Jan 2007 09:49:26
From:
Subject: Re: Luwak makes it to Minnesota
On 9 Jan 2007 21:29:04 -0800, "JoeP" <joe@internet-realty.com > wrote:

>
>b...@smithfarms.com wrote:
> By the way I'll be in Kauai in two days is
>there anyplace I can try your product? I plan on grabbing some
samples
>from Kauai coffee co. If you check out my link its actually one page
>back that has all the poop photos. Don't knock it until you try it.
>
>Joe
>www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com

Sorry not to agree Joe, but I know some people do believe in Kopi
Luwak. Go for it. I also do not go to sites where I have to log in
etc. Call me ridiculous. I get *oh too much* spam, and I protect my
computer, with my life, at all times because it is so important. I am
just cautious.

Have fun on Kauai! Kauai is beautiful and the oldest of our 8 major
islands. I live on the furthest south, the "newest". Kauai is such a
different coffee from Kona. It is mechanized from picking to pruning.
We do all of Kona by hand. I believe Kauai is a different cultivar,
certainly a different exposure and a different soil--just totally
different.

No, thank you for asking:), but we only sell our coffee via the
Internet, no product samples anywhere else. It is just Bob and me and
we already feel exhausted at times.

Have a good trip.

aloha,
Cea
beansatsmithfarms.com
farmers of pure kona
roast beans to kona to email


   
Date: 10 Jan 2007 15:24:47
From: Craig Andrews
Subject: Re: Luwak makes it to Minnesota

<beans@smithfarms.com > wrote in message
news:r6gaq2dtplubpkfbo2fttp01etrg7hrtkj@4ax.com...
> On 9 Jan 2007 21:29:04 -0800, "JoeP" <joe@internet-realty.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>b...@smithfarms.com wrote:
>> By the way I'll be in Kauai in two days is
>>there anyplace I can try your product? I plan on grabbing some
> samples
>>from Kauai coffee co. If you check out my link its actually one page
>>back that has all the poop photos. Don't knock it until you try it.
>>
>>Joe
>>www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com
>
> Sorry not to agree Joe, but I know some people do believe in Kopi
> Luwak. Go for it. I also do not go to sites where I have to log in
> etc. Call me ridiculous. I get *oh too much* spam, and I protect my
> computer, with my life, at all times because it is so important. I am
> just cautious.


Well, we do have to log in at Coffeegeek & the Coffeegeek forums Cea, if
we wish to post that is.
Sincerely,
Craig.


>
> Have fun on Kauai! Kauai is beautiful and the oldest of our 8 major
> islands. I live on the furthest south, the "newest". Kauai is such a
> different coffee from Kona. It is mechanized from picking to pruning.
> We do all of Kona by hand. I believe Kauai is a different cultivar,
> certainly a different exposure and a different soil--just totally
> different.
>
> No, thank you for asking:), but we only sell our coffee via the
> Internet, no product samples anywhere else. It is just Bob and me and
> we already feel exhausted at times.
>
> Have a good trip.
>
> aloha,
> Cea
> beansatsmithfarms.com
> farmers of pure kona
> roast beans to kona to email



  
Date: 10 Jan 2007 05:53:10
From: Paul Monaghan
Subject: Re: Luwak makes it to Minnesota
On 9 Jan 2007 21:29:04 -0800, "JoeP" <joe@internet-realty.com > wrote:


>hahaha.... Cea, come on! your going to go this far with the "its not
>real" speach without even seeing the photos. Jay's photos show the
>actual wet turds on the ground then the harvested dry turds then how
>they prep them. Its very disgusting looking but it tastes great I
>promise. As far as personal suppliers, I think you could fall into that
>mold and we all trust you dont we? But trust me we were very skeptical
>and I didn't even get some until after the first distribution just to
>make sure, one of our members had tried Kopi Lewak prior and he was the
>direct contact with Jay. By the way I'll be in Kauai in two days is
>there anyplace I can try your product? I plan on grabbing some samples
>from Kauai coffee co. If you check out my link its actually one page
>back that has all the poop photos. Don't knock it until you try it.
>
>Joe
>www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com


FWIW I have had some of this same coffee from Jay and can say:

1. There is certainly some robusta there, but the "process" does seem
to mellow it. Not totally, but enough. Just what you'd expect since
these civits are not caged and they eat what they find. The search
for their turds can be compared to an Easter Egg Hunt -KL is not
farmed!

2.The greens look badly deficient, with borerholes and much variation
in color/size/etc. Kinda scary. And then there is the smell. Not bad
exactly, but certainly different.

3. The coffee is amazingly smooth and nutty, and yet very full bodied
after even just 12 hours of rest. It improves from there for about a
week.

4. I saw Jay's pictures posted in real time and don't doubt them at
all. And they are beautiful! Especially if you like seeing how some
coffee is processed by traditional means.

5. Maybe not the best coffee in the world, but I really, really
enjoyed it. Bought a half kilo on a whim, then another because I
enjoyed it so much. If Jay sticks around I'll probably buy a kilo a
year just to have that experience every other month or so.

All IMHO and FWIW of course,
Paul


 
Date: 09 Jan 2007 20:42:32
From: Felix
Subject: Re: Luwak makes it to Minnesota
Alan writes:
> I don't think the palm civet cared about the arabica vs. robusta
> debate, just the taste of the fruit.

I've always (rashly) assumed that the palm civet preferred coffee
cherries that were alcoholic, and recently learned that the species is
also known as "toddy cat" because of its affection for *fermented* palm
sap. The beans ingested by wild civets might be selected more carefully
than usual, so I suspect that the myth has a legitimate basis. On the
other hand, this must be one of the easiest products to counterfeit.
Supply and demand ...de gustibus non est disputandum :-)


Felix



 
Date: 09 Jan 2007 16:43:32
From: JoeP
Subject: Re: Luwak makes it to Minnesota

shane wrote:
> I am quite positive that Civits exist and I am positive that coffee
> exists. Coffee being process though the digestive tract of a Civit in
> large enough quanity to pick up and sell?
> That is where I am skeptical.
>
> The thing is that the numbers for Kopi Luwek coffee, just do not seem
> to add up. The reported numbers for total world production do not seem
> to add up to the volume that is sold.
> Any photos of the turd sample?
>
> Shane

Hey Shane the pics are back up. I had jay repost them for everyone to
see what and how he harvests and processes the poop coffee ;-) . And as
you can see it is very real.

http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=1055.new;topicseen#new


Joe
www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com



 
Date: 09 Jan 2007 06:54:11
From: shane
Subject: Re: Luwak makes it to Minnesota
I am quite positive that Civits exist and I am positive that coffee
exists. Coffee being process though the digestive tract of a Civit in
large enough quanity to pick up and sell?
That is where I am skeptical.

The thing is that the numbers for Kopi Luwek coffee, just do not seem
to add up. The reported numbers for total world production do not seem
to add up to the volume that is sold.
Any photos of the turd sample?

Shane



JoeP wrote:
> shane wrote:
> > I know this topic has probably been posted before. It is amazing how
> > the news media seems to discover Kopi Luwak coffee every six months or
> > so. My local news channel just had a story on the new discovery this
> > evening.
> >
> > A specialty coffee roaster in Minneapolis is selling Kopi Luwak coffee
> > for $420 a pound or $10 per 8oz cup.
> >
> > I find it interesting that the world wide production of Luwak coffee is
> > anywhere from 200 to 1000 pounds or Kilograms. The price is from $100
> > to $600.
> >
> > I did see a new photo today. Paradise Coffee from Indonesia had a
> > picture of a small animal in a coffee tree.
> >
> > Anyone know if it really exists?
> >
> > Shane
>
> Not only does it exist but I've had some and it's really good. Very
> earthy in fact when you roast it it smell like roasting dirt, it has a
> very rich flavor plenty of chocolate and some fruit and its incredibly
> smooth. I even have a turd sample as proof, which is great for the
> visual. We have a direct relationship with a kopi Lewak harvester in
> Sumatra.
>
> Check it out:
> http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=1055.0
>
>
> Joe
> www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com
> "freinds getting together and splitting bags of coffee"



  
Date: 09 Jan 2007 07:36:02
From:
Subject: Re: Luwak makes it to Minnesota
On 9 Jan 2007 06:54:11 -0800, "shane" <shane.olson@juno.com > wrote:

>I am quite positive that Civits exist and I am positive that coffee
>exists. Coffee being process though the digestive tract of a Civit
in
>large enough quanity to pick up and sell?
>That is where I am skeptical.
>
>The thing is that the numbers for Kopi Luwek coffee, just do not seem
>to add up. The reported numbers for total world production do not
seem
>to add up to the volume that is sold.
>Any photos of the turd sample?
>
>Shane
>
Keep up your skepticism Shane! I remain doubtful too. I looked at
Craig's photos- just a civet cat:), and don't have time to get into
Joe's buying club, but I know cats and I know coffee. Even pigs do
not eat coffee bans. Why would a cat apparently locked in a cage,
ever eat coffee beans. Starving wouldn't do it.The fruit would rot
before the starving cat ever considered eating the only thing in its
cage.

And a personal supplier in Indonesia, with all due respect Joe, I bet
you could buy a lot of anything with a personal supplier. We have
people like that here. "What do you want?", and "Oh, we can get it
for you." I am not trying to be argumentative, I promise.

I think and most alties will groan, that it is a scam. I once
contacted a UH Professor of Animal Science and he said he doubted the
possibility of any cat like creature eating coffee beans.

Sorry for my perpetual rant.

aloha,
Cea
beansatsmithfarms.com
farmers of pure kona
roast beans to kona to email


   
Date: 09 Jan 2007 14:37:37
From: notbob
Subject: Re: Luwak makes it to Minnesota
On 2007-01-09, beans@smithfarms.com <beans@smithfarms.com > wrote:

> Keep up your skepticism Shane! I remain doubtful too.

I don't know why. I appears to be commonly accepted knowledge.

http://www.blueplanetbiomes.org/common_palm_civet.htm

> contacted a UH Professor of Animal Science and he said he doubted the
> possibility of any cat like creature eating coffee beans.

First of all, the civet is not a cat. It's an omnivorous member of
the mongoose family. Second, anyone watching more than a few PBS
nature programs knows the spreading of seeds via the passenger in
poop trick is old ecosystem news. Your professor sounds like a moron.

OTOH, that the whole Luwak thing is a something of a scam may be hitting
closer to home. And how much of that insanely overpriced blend is the
real deal? You of all people should know how that works.

As Cecil Adams says: "You know, if we play our cards right, we can
sell this to white people for $110 a pound!"

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/010525.html

Nothing personal, but thinking along those same lines, when it comes
to ultra-premium coffees I like, Kona and Blue Mountain aren't even on my
radar. I wouldn't buy them at regular coffee prices, let alone the
prices they currently command. But hey, to each his own and whatever
the ket will bear and all that. ;)

nb


    
Date: 09 Jan 2007 17:13:30
From:
Subject: Re: Luwak makes it to Minnesota
On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 14:37:37 -0600, notbob <notbob@nothome.com > wrote:

>On 2007-01-09, beans@smithfarms.com <beans@smithfarms.com> wrote:
>
>> Keep up your skepticism Shane! I remain doubtful too.
>
>I don't know why. I appears to be commonly accepted knowledge.
>
>http://www.blueplanetbiomes.org/common_palm_civet.htm
>
>> contacted a UH Professor of Animal Science and he said he doubted
the
>> possibility of any cat like creature eating coffee beans.
>
>First of all, the civet is not a cat. It's an omnivorous member of
>the mongoose family. Second, anyone watching more than a few PBS
>nature programs knows the spreading of seeds via the passenger in
>poop trick is old ecosystem news. Your professor sounds like a
moron.
>
>OTOH, that the whole Luwak thing is a something of a scam may be
hitting
>closer to home. And how much of that insanely overpriced blend is
the
>real deal? You of all people should know how that works.
>
>As Cecil Adams says: "You know, if we play our cards right, we can
>sell this to white people for $110 a pound!"
>
>http://www.straightdope.com/columns/010525.html
>
>Nothing personal, but thinking along those same lines, when it comes
>to ultra-premium coffees I like, Kona and Blue Mountain aren't even
on my
>radar. I wouldn't buy them at regular coffee prices, let alone the
>prices they currently command. But hey, to each his own and whatever
>the ket will bear and all that. ;)
>
>nb

I have raised 3 mongooses from baby hood. I know wild mongooses.

As you said, maybe it's a scam?

My $.02.

aloha,
Cea
beansatsmithfarms.com
farmers of pure kona
roast beans to kona to email


     
Date: 10 Jan 2007 10:10:49
From: Moka Java
Subject: Re: Luwak makes it to Minnesota
Cea, do your mongoses (mongese?) eat coffee cherry? 'Cause if they do
have I got a deal for you! Since, as you say, mongoses can be
domesticated we could put together a processing plant. Feed the lil'
darlin's ripe cherry and give them a nice lounge area to poop in.
Should be easy enough to devise a screening process so no need for
natives to pick though the poop. The mongoses will be fat and happy and
we could be the purveyors of Kona Kopi Luwak. We can call the company
KonaKopia. Since the mongoses will be processing the cherry it will
save Bob from having to drag all that cherry down to the processing
plant along with the associated costs of having the the cherry pulped
and processed.

Cea, this is the perfect business plan! We know your integrity is
beyond reproach so the KonaKopia will be coffee really processed in the
old fashioned way. We can be the purveyors of Certified Kona Kopi Luwak!

Waddaya say?!

R "the wheels are always turnin'"TF

beans@smithfarms.com wrote:

>
> I have raised 3 mongooses from baby hood. I know wild mongooses.
>
> As you said, maybe it's a scam?
>
> My $.02.
>
> aloha,
> Cea
> beansatsmithfarms.com
> farmers of pure kona
> roast beans to kona to email


      
Date: 10 Jan 2007 06:16:44
From:
Subject: Re: Luwak makes it to Minnesota
On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:10:49 -0500, Moka Java <rtwatches@yahoo.com >
wrote:

>Cea, do your mongoses (mongese?) eat coffee cherry? 'Cause if they
do
>have I got a deal for you! Since, as you say, mongoses can be
>domesticated we could put together a processing plant. Feed the lil'
>darlin's ripe cherry and give them a nice lounge area to poop in.
>Should be easy enough to devise a screening process so no need for
>natives to pick though the poop. The mongoses will be fat and happy
and
>we could be the purveyors of Kona Kopi Luwak. We can call the
company
>KonaKopia. Since the mongoses will be processing the cherry it will
>save Bob from having to drag all that cherry down to the processing
>plant along with the associated costs of having the the cherry pulped
>and processed.
>
>Cea, this is the perfect business plan! We know your integrity is
>beyond reproach so the KonaKopia will be coffee really processed in
the
>old fashioned way. We can be the purveyors of Certified Kona Kopi
Luwak!
>
>Waddaya say?!
>

hahaha. Okay if...it would work well. Thanks for the humor!

The only animals that I know of that eat ripe coffee cherries are my
dogs. They love the sweet covering of the cherry and their poops look
like potential konakopia:).

Mongooses are extremely fussy eaters, preferring chicken and eggs and
protein over anything else. When they reached mongoose puberty, about
9 months old they split for the wild. I understood as they are wild
creatures. Adorable, kind of smelly curious and I enjoyed each of
them and felt each one was a gift for me to raise.

aloha,
Cea
beansatsmithfarms.com
farmers of pure kona
roast beans to kona to email


       
Date: 10 Jan 2007 15:10:23
From: Moka Java
Subject: Re: Luwak makes it to Minnesota
beans@smithfarms.com wrote:


>
> The only animals that I know of that eat ripe coffee cherries are my
> dogs. They love the sweet covering of the cherry and their poops look
> like potential konakopia:).
>

Yeah, but KopiK-9 doesn't have the same exotic ring to it.

R "eeew" TF


       
Date: 10 Jan 2007 19:14:54
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: Luwak makes it to Minnesota
On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 06:16:44 -1000, beans@smithfarms.com wrote:

>The only animals that I know of that eat ripe coffee cherries are my
>dogs. They love the sweet covering of the cherry and their poops look
>like potential konakopia:).
>

uhh... cea?

if your carnivore doggies like ripe coffee cherries, why is it such a
stretch for you to accept that an omnivore palm civet might not enjoy
such things?



        
Date: 10 Jan 2007 09:38:51
From:
Subject: Re: Luwak makes it to Minnesota
On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 19:14:54 GMT, Barry Jarrett
<barry@rileys-coffee.com > wrote:

>On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 06:16:44 -1000, beans@smithfarms.com wrote:
>
> >The only animals that I know of that eat ripe coffee cherries are
my
> >dogs. They love the sweet covering of the cherry and their poops
look
> >like potential konakopia:).
> >
>
>uhh... cea?
>
>if your carnivore doggies like ripe coffee cherries, why is it such a
>stretch for you to accept that an omnivore palm civet might not enjoy
>such things?

My doggies are not just carnivores. They are omnivores. They like
bananas, cheese, eggs,old rotten eggs, sweet cherry skins, avocados
(the favorite choice always!), cherimoya fruit, apples, bread,
cookies, blue corn chips etc.etc....

I believe I know cats and mongooses pretty well, and they are not
omnivores.

FYI half of their standard Science Diet dog food is Rice --I buy Lamb
and rice. They love that too.

Just my $.02.

aloha,
Cea
beansatsmithfarms.com
farmers of pure kona
roast beans to kona to email


         
Date: 10 Jan 2007 21:02:34
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: Luwak makes it to Minnesota
On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 09:38:51 -1000, beans@smithfarms.com wrote:

>I believe I know cats and mongooses pretty well, and they are not
>omnivores.
>

well, the palm civet is (again, it is not a cat):

"The Common Palm Civet is a nocturnal omnivore. Its priy food
source is fruit such as chiku, mango, and rambutan and it has a
fondness for palm flower sap, which when fermented, becomes toddy, a
sweet liquor."

--wikipedia



     
Date: 10 Jan 2007 01:14:01
From: notbob
Subject: Re: Luwak makes it to Minnesota
On 2007-01-10, beans@smithfarms.com <beans@smithfarms.com > wrote:

> I have raised 3 mongooses from baby hood. I know wild mongooses.

Now I'm confused. How do mongooses raised on baby food by people
translate into "wild"? And what's your point? Mongooses like baby
food, but not coffee beans?

> As you said, maybe it's a scam?

Maybe they also don't like Kona.

nb


      
Date: 10 Jan 2007 06:11:51
From:
Subject: Re: Luwak makes it to Minnesota
On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 01:14:01 -0600, notbob <notbob@nothome.com > wrote:

>On 2007-01-10, beans@smithfarms.com <beans@smithfarms.com> wrote:
>
>> I have raised 3 mongooses from baby hood. I know wild mongooses.
>
>Now I'm confused. How do mongooses raised on baby food by people
>translate into "wild"? And what's your point? Mongooses like baby
>food, but not coffee beans?
>
>> As you said, maybe it's a scam?
>
>Maybe they also don't like Kona.
>
>nb

Baby HOOD not food.
beansatsmithfarms.com
farmers of pure kona
roast beans to kona to email


      
Date: 10 Jan 2007 07:52:44
From: Coffee for Connoisseurs
Subject: Re: Luwak makes it to Minnesota
> As you said, maybe it's a scam?

I don't doubt the reality of the beans, but my <professional > taste buds
told me I could do much better for a lot less money. There are a number of
"delicacies" where the price you pay is more important than the actual
taste; sharksfin or bird nest soup comes to mind. At least in Australia we
eat the rest of the shark (and occasionally they eat us.)

The Kopi Luak I tasted wasn't even as good as a Monsooned Malabar Robusta,
let alone some of the Indonesian and Timorese Arabicas.


--
Alan

alanfrew@coffeeco.com.au
www.coffeeco.com.au





       
Date: 10 Jan 2007 09:42:43
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Luwak makes it to Minnesota
Sharks fin and birds nest are somewhat different in that the Chinese eat
them for their (mythical) health properties which are derived from the
(mythical) attributes of the animals they are derived from. The Chinese also
value foods for texture alone even if they have little taste - they know how
to use those foods with other ingredients so the overall dish is tasty.

Caviar comes to mind and certain overpriced wines - at some point, as you
say, paying a lot of money IS the point.


"Coffee for Connoisseurs" <alanfrew@coffeeco.com.au > wrote in message
news:gX0ph.4257$A8.132@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>> As you said, maybe it's a scam?
>
> I don't doubt the reality of the beans, but my <professional> taste buds
> told me I could do much better for a lot less money. There are a number of
> "delicacies" where the price you pay is more important than the actual
> taste; sharksfin or bird nest soup comes to mind. At least in Australia we
> eat the rest of the shark (and occasionally they eat us.)
>
> The Kopi Luak I tasted wasn't even as good as a Monsooned Malabar Robusta,
> let alone some of the Indonesian and Timorese Arabicas.
>
>
> --
> Alan
>
> alanfrew@coffeeco.com.au
> www.coffeeco.com.au
>
>
>




    
Date: 09 Jan 2007 15:49:20
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Luwak makes it to Minnesota
This is a little bit unfair. I realize that tastes can differ and if what
you like is the earthiness of a Sumatra or the exotic spice of an Yemen or
Ethiopian then Kona and Blue Mountain are not that exciting. But their
"clean cup" "self drinking" qualities, which still exist in the very best
examples, are what made them prized in the first place. That and a lot of
lucky hype as a result of being in prime tourist spots, but if there was not
(at least at one time) some essential quality to them the hype would not
have caught on. Of course there is a lot of mediocre stuff out there that
carries the Kona and JBM label, too which is not worth drinking at any
price.

"notbob" <notbob@nothome.com > wrote in message
news:3-adnQPjccWMYD7YnZ2dnUVZ_r2dnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> Nothing personal, but thinking along those same lines, when it comes
> to ultra-premium coffees I like, Kona and Blue Mountain aren't even on my
> radar. I wouldn't buy them at regular coffee prices, let alone the
> prices they currently command. But hey, to each his own and whatever
> the ket will bear and all that. ;)
>
> nb




     
Date: 09 Jan 2007 16:08:07
From: notbob
Subject: Re: Luwak makes it to Minnesota
On 2007-01-09, Jack Denver <nunuvyer@netscape.net > wrote:

> This is a little bit unfair.

I'm not sure what you mean. I was not condemning the coffees I
mentioned, just stating I find nothing outstanding about them. This
is strictly my own opinion based on my personal tastes and
preferences. I've drank fresh Smith Farms Kona and I almost feel bad
for not liking it, but sorry. Not my cuppa joe. Naturally, this is
no reflection on Cea and Smith Farms, whom I wholeheartedly support
and wish nothing but the best. But, I do think many people are caught
up in the hype of some products and ooh and ahh over them just because
it's the thing to do.

Enough of that. Just out of curiosity, what is "self drinking"?

nb





I realize that tastes can differ and if what
> you like is the earthiness of a Sumatra or the exotic spice of an Yemen or
> Ethiopian then Kona and Blue Mountain are not that exciting. But their
> "clean cup" "self drinking" qualities, which still exist in the very best
> examples, are what made them prized in the first place. That and a lot of
> lucky hype as a result of being in prime tourist spots, but if there was not
> (at least at one time) some essential quality to them the hype would not
> have caught on. Of course there is a lot of mediocre stuff out there that
> carries the Kona and JBM label, too which is not worth drinking at any
> price.
>
> "notbob" <notbob@nothome.com> wrote in message
> news:3-adnQPjccWMYD7YnZ2dnUVZ_r2dnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>
>> Nothing personal, but thinking along those same lines, when it comes
>> to ultra-premium coffees I like, Kona and Blue Mountain aren't even on my
>> radar. I wouldn't buy them at regular coffee prices, let alone the
>> prices they currently command. But hey, to each his own and whatever
>> the ket will bear and all that. ;)
>>
>> nb
>
>


      
Date: 09 Jan 2007 18:39:49
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Luwak makes it to Minnesota
IIRC a "self drinker" means a coffee that requires no blending, that tastes
good as a single origin, a naturally balanced cup.


"notbob" <notbob@nothome.com > wrote in message
news:S7Cdncwb_s7ajznYnZ2dnUVZ_ridnZ2d@comcast.com...
> On 2007-01-09, Jack Denver <nunuvyer@netscape.net> wrote:
>
>> This is a little bit unfair.
>
> I'm not sure what you mean. I was not condemning the coffees I
> mentioned, just stating I find nothing outstanding about them. This
> is strictly my own opinion based on my personal tastes and
> preferences. I've drank fresh Smith Farms Kona and I almost feel bad
> for not liking it, but sorry. Not my cuppa joe. Naturally, this is
> no reflection on Cea and Smith Farms, whom I wholeheartedly support
> and wish nothing but the best. But, I do think many people are caught
> up in the hype of some products and ooh and ahh over them just because
> it's the thing to do.
>
> Enough of that. Just out of curiosity, what is "self drinking"?
>
> nb
>
>
>
>
>
> I realize that tastes can differ and if what
>> you like is the earthiness of a Sumatra or the exotic spice of an Yemen
>> or
>> Ethiopian then Kona and Blue Mountain are not that exciting. But their
>> "clean cup" "self drinking" qualities, which still exist in the very best
>> examples, are what made them prized in the first place. That and a lot of
>> lucky hype as a result of being in prime tourist spots, but if there was
>> not
>> (at least at one time) some essential quality to them the hype would not
>> have caught on. Of course there is a lot of mediocre stuff out there
>> that
>> carries the Kona and JBM label, too which is not worth drinking at any
>> price.
>>
>> "notbob" <notbob@nothome.com> wrote in message
>> news:3-adnQPjccWMYD7YnZ2dnUVZ_r2dnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>
>>> Nothing personal, but thinking along those same lines, when it comes
>>> to ultra-premium coffees I like, Kona and Blue Mountain aren't even on
>>> my
>>> radar. I wouldn't buy them at regular coffee prices, let alone the
>>> prices they currently command. But hey, to each his own and whatever
>>> the ket will bear and all that. ;)
>>>
>>> nb
>>
>>




     
Date: 09 Jan 2007 21:39:27
From: Coffee for Connoisseurs
Subject: Re: Luwak makes it to Minnesota
The one purported Luak coffee I have ever seen and tasted contained quite a
high proportion of Robusta, and tasted like it. I don't think the palm civet
cared about the arabica vs. robusta debate, just the taste of the fruit.


--
Alan

alanfrew@coffeeco.com.au
www.coffeeco.com.au




   
Date: 09 Jan 2007 13:23:46
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Luwak makes it to Minnesota
"Civet cats" are not really cats at all. They are somewhat cat -like in
appearance (actually they look more like a mongoose) but biologically
belong to an entirely different family of mammal. Palm civets are "cats" in
the same way that native Americans are "Indians" - blame it on stupid white
guys . Palm civets (aka luwaks) are omnivores and eat all kinds of fruits
( supposedly including coffee cherries). I'm a skeptic too regarding the
authenticity of most of what is sold as "kopi luwak" but I don't doubt that
a fruit loving animal may like to eat coffee cherries given what we know to
be their sweetness.

Real felines are of course almost exclusive carnivores in the wild (though
they seem to be attracted to certain green herbs). However, especially if
introduced at an early age, domestic cats will eat things that are not part
of their natural diet such as fruit.




<beans@smithfarms.com > wrote in message
news:j6k7q25q8o2kd7ejrk3fgdacpi2nn702av@4ax.com...
>>Shane
>>
> Keep up your skepticism Shane! I remain doubtful too. I looked at
> Craig's photos- just a civet cat:), and don't have time to get into
> Joe's buying club, but I know cats and I know coffee. Even pigs do
> not eat coffee bans. Why would a cat apparently locked in a cage,
> ever eat coffee beans. Starving wouldn't do it.The fruit would rot
> before the starving cat ever considered eating the only thing in its
> cage.
>
> And a personal supplier in Indonesia, with all due respect Joe, I bet
> you could buy a lot of anything with a personal supplier. We have
> people like that here. "What do you want?", and "Oh, we can get it
> for you." I am not trying to be argumentative, I promise.
>
> I think and most alties will groan, that it is a scam. I once
> contacted a UH Professor of Animal Science and he said he doubted the
> possibility of any cat like creature eating coffee beans.
>
> Sorry for my perpetual rant.
>
> aloha,
> Cea
> beansatsmithfarms.com
> farmers of pure kona
> roast beans to kona to email




    
Date: 09 Jan 2007 20:24:55
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: Luwak makes it to Minnesota
On Tue, 9 Jan 2007 13:23:46 -0500, "Jack Denver"
<nunuvyer@netscape.net > wrote:

> Real felines are of course almost exclusive carnivores in the wild (though
>they seem to be attracted to certain green herbs). However, especially if
>introduced at an early age, domestic cats will eat things that are not part
>of their natural diet such as fruit.

we had one who would eat roasted coffee beans, and another who favored
popsicles.




  
Date: 09 Jan 2007 10:00:20
From: Craig Andrews
Subject: Re: Luwak makes it to Minnesota

"shane" <shane.olson@juno.com > wrote in message
news:1168354451.724557.318520@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I am quite positive that Civits exist and I am positive that coffee
> exists. Coffee being process though the digestive tract of a Civit in
> large enough quanity to pick up and sell?
> That is where I am skeptical.
>
> The thing is that the numbers for Kopi Luwek coffee, just do not seem
> to add up. The reported numbers for total world production do not seem
> to add up to the volume that is sold.
> Any photos of the turd sample?
>
> Shane
>
>

That tells you that there are a lot of scams out there to capitalize on
it., ever heard of the huge Kona Kai scandal?
Craig.



 
Date: 08 Jan 2007 23:35:24
From: JoeP
Subject: Re: Luwak makes it to Minnesota

shane wrote:
> I know this topic has probably been posted before. It is amazing how
> the news media seems to discover Kopi Luwak coffee every six months or
> so. My local news channel just had a story on the new discovery this
> evening.
>
> A specialty coffee roaster in Minneapolis is selling Kopi Luwak coffee
> for $420 a pound or $10 per 8oz cup.
>
> I find it interesting that the world wide production of Luwak coffee is
> anywhere from 200 to 1000 pounds or Kilograms. The price is from $100
> to $600.
>
> I did see a new photo today. Paradise Coffee from Indonesia had a
> picture of a small animal in a coffee tree.
>
> Anyone know if it really exists?
>
> Shane

Not only does it exist but I've had some and it's really good. Very
earthy in fact when you roast it it smell like roasting dirt, it has a
very rich flavor plenty of chocolate and some fruit and its incredibly
smooth. I even have a turd sample as proof, which is great for the
visual. We have a direct relationship with a kopi Lewak harvester in
Sumatra.

Check it out:
http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=1055.0


Joe
www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com
"freinds getting together and splitting bags of coffee"



 
Date: 09 Jan 2007 00:50:00
From: Craig Andrews
Subject: Re: Luwak makes it to Minnesota

"shane" <shane.olson@juno.com > wrote in message
news:1168319967.196081.30900@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I know this topic has probably been posted before. It is amazing how
> the news media seems to discover Kopi Luwak coffee every six months or
> so. My local news channel just had a story on the new discovery this
> evening.
>
> A specialty coffee roaster in Minneapolis is selling Kopi Luwak coffee
> for $420 a pound or $10 per 8oz cup.
>
> I find it interesting that the world wide production of Luwak coffee
> is
> anywhere from 200 to 1000 pounds or Kilograms. The price is from $100
> to $600.
>
> I did see a new photo today. Paradise Coffee from Indonesia had a
> picture of a small animal in a coffee tree.
>
> Anyone know if it really exists?
>
> Shane
>

Yep.
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=t&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2004-01,GGLD:en&q=civet+cat

http://images.google.com/images?sourceid=navclient&aq=civet%20cat&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2004-01,GGLD:en&q=civet+cat&oe=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi
Craig



  
Date: 09 Jan 2007 00:54:29
From: Craig Andrews
Subject: Re: Luwak makes it to Minnesota

"Craig Andrews" <alt.coffee@deletethis.rogers.com > wrote in message
news:50gop3F1fetasU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> "shane" <shane.olson@juno.com> wrote in message
> news:1168319967.196081.30900@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>I know this topic has probably been posted before. It is amazing how
>> the news media seems to discover Kopi Luwak coffee every six months
>> or
>> so. My local news channel just had a story on the new discovery this
>> evening.
>>
>> A specialty coffee roaster in Minneapolis is selling Kopi Luwak
>> coffee
>> for $420 a pound or $10 per 8oz cup.
>>
>> I find it interesting that the world wide production of Luwak coffee
>> is
>> anywhere from 200 to 1000 pounds or Kilograms. The price is from
>> $100
>> to $600.
>>
>> I did see a new photo today. Paradise Coffee from Indonesia had a
>> picture of a small animal in a coffee tree.
>>
>> Anyone know if it really exists?
>>
>> Shane
>>
>
> Yep.
> http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=t&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2004-01,GGLD:en&q=civet+cat
>
> http://images.google.com/images?sourceid=navclient&aq=civet%20cat&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2004-01,GGLD:en&q=civet+cat&oe=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi
> Craig

I like this one! {;-D http://www.pusscats.com/Civet_Cat_3.jpg
Craig.




 
Date: 08 Jan 2007 23:48:20
From: notbob
Subject: Re: Luwak makes it to Minnesota
On 2007-01-09, shane <shane.olson@juno.com > wrote:

> Anyone know if it really exists?

If it didn't, someone would undoubtedly create it.

nb