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Date: 26 Apr 2007 14:36:21
From: PB
Subject: Moka pot busted?
Some time ago while waiting for my coffee to be ready I suddenly came to the
conclusion that I had forgotten to put water into it, how stupid! I was
afraid my Moka Express would be fit for the waste bin, and that the rubber
thing probably would have melted. I decided to let it all cool down and
after that I inspected the whole thing. To my surprise everything looked
just normal and the rubber had not melted at all. I think this has to do
with using an electric (ceramic even) stove (medium heat setting) instead of
a gas stove.

So I felt relieved and continued using my Moka. Now when I clean the thing
and let it dry some white stuff is appearing in the water reservoir. I can
rub it out and it will be ok for some time but it keeps coming back. I have
no clue what this might be? As im using an aluminium pot I thought about
aluminium oxide or corrossion maybe. Is there something I can do about this?
The stuff looks white and a little gooey. When I let it dry it will turn
into powdery stuff.

Thank you!
PB






 
Date: 27 Apr 2007 13:45:20
From: cpaullie
Subject: Re: Moka pot busted?
On Apr 26, 7:04 pm, r...@math.hawaii.NOSPAM.edu (D. Ross) wrote:
> phreaddy <phrea...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>


  
Date: 29 Apr 2007 12:27:15
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: Moka pot busted?


 
Date: 27 Apr 2007 06:12:10
From: Dave b
Subject: Re: Moka pot busted?
On Apr 26, 8:36 am, "PB" <prinsbern...@web.de > wrote:
> Some time ago while waiting for my coffee to be ready I suddenly came to the
> conclusion that I had forgotten to put water into it, how stupid! I was
> afraid my Moka Express would be fit for the waste bin, and that the rubber
> thing probably would have melted. I decided to let it all cool down and
> after that I inspected the whole thing. To my surprise everything looked
> just normal and the rubber had not melted at all. I think this has to do
> with using an electric (ceramic even) stove (medium heat setting) instead of
> a gas stove.
>
> So I felt relieved and continued using my Moka. Now when I clean the thing
> and let it dry some white stuff is appearing in the water reservoir. I can
> rub it out and it will be ok for some time but it keeps coming back. I have
> no clue what this might be? As im using an aluminium pot I thought about
> aluminium oxide or corrossion maybe. Is there something I can do about this?
> The stuff looks white and a little gooey. When I let it dry it will turn
> into powdery stuff.
>
> Thank you!
> PB

sounds like the overheat has made the AL interior much more porous,
this is a permanent condition.

I'd get a new one. -- and a SS one would be more durable.

dave
Saeco / Gaggia service SE



 
Date: 26 Apr 2007 16:31:20
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Moka pot busted?
I don't understand how overheating would cause a sudden increase in
corrosion, but that's what it sounds like. If you weren't already, use only
filtered water. Better yet get a Bialetti Venus (S/S) if you can still find
them at Marshall's for $20.
--
Robert (Gig 'em!) Harmon
www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj - My coffee pages
www.tinyurl.com/2tnv87 - Guidelines for newbies.
www.tinyurl.com/37gwfr - I may have stuff available for sale here.

"PB" <prinsbernard@web.de > wrote in message
news:0badnb9QgbZaAa3bRVnytQA@casema.nl...
> Some time ago while waiting for my coffee to be ready I suddenly came to
> the conclusion that I had forgotten to put water into it, how stupid! I
> was afraid my Moka Express would be fit for the waste bin, and that the
> rubber thing probably would have melted. I decided to let it all cool down
> and after that I inspected the whole thing. To my surprise everything
> looked just normal and the rubber had not melted at all. I think this has
> to do with using an electric (ceramic even) stove (medium heat setting)
> instead of a gas stove.
>
> So I felt relieved and continued using my Moka. Now when I clean the thing
> and let it dry some white stuff is appearing in the water reservoir. I can
> rub it out and it will be ok for some time but it keeps coming back. I
> have no clue what this might be? As im using an aluminium pot I thought
> about aluminium oxide or corrossion maybe. Is there something I can do
> about this? The stuff looks white and a little gooey. When I let it dry it
> will turn into powdery stuff.
>
> Thank you!
> PB
>




 
Date: 26 Apr 2007 08:51:09
From: phreaddy
Subject: Re: Moka pot busted?
Sounds like aluminum corrosion to me. Get a stainless steel one.
Better flavor, possibly safer for your health, too.




  
Date: 27 Apr 2007 01:04:09
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: Moka pot busted?
phreaddy <phreaddy@gmail.com > wrote:



   
Date: 26 Apr 2007 22:09:39
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Moka pot busted?
Aluminum is one of the most common elements in the earth's crust so a lot of
vegetables take it up. Also deodorants, antacids. Cookware should not be a
major source unless used for acid foods. The claim was that Alzheimber
patients had alu. in their brains but this is almost certainly an effect
rather than a cause of the disease.


"D. Ross" <ross@math.hawaii.NOSPAM.edu > wrote in message
news:463148f4.112172415@localhost...
> phreaddy <phreaddy@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>


    
Date: 27 Apr 2007 22:36:35
From: Natalie Drest
Subject: Re: Moka pot busted?

"Jack Denver" <nunuvyer@netscape.net > wrote in message
news:Sa-dneI_3cn5xqzbnZ2dnUVZ_uiknZ2d@comcast.com...
> Aluminum is one of the most common elements in the earth's crust so a lot
> of vegetables take it up. Also deodorants, antacids. Cookware should not
> be a major source unless used for acid foods. The claim was that
> Alzheimber patients had alu. in their brains but this is almost certainly
> an effect rather than a cause of the disease.
>
>
This myth gained support when brains of alzheimer sufferers were found to
contain high levels of alumina. 20 years later (or was it 30? I forget...)
it was discovered that the sections had been stored on aluminium trays prior
to analysis, & had become contaminated. The whole Alzheimers/aluminium link
theory was based on this one study, now officially discredited.

Source: a doco i saw. I think it was BBC, it certainly was british, but- I
just can't remember. Now, where's my aluminioum moka pot? Must be time for
another shot...

All joking aside, the doco was real. I haven't the time to google for it,
maybe someone else does.
And my moka pot is S/S, because it tastes better.

> "D. Ross" <ross@math.hawaii.NOSPAM.edu> wrote in message
> news:463148f4.112172415@localhost...
>> phreaddy <phreaddy@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>


     
Date: 27 Apr 2007 22:58:39
From: Natalie Drest
Subject: Re: Moka pot busted?

"Natalie Drest" <fugeddaboudit@notarealemailaddress.net > wrote in message
news:4631ee41$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>
> "Jack Denver" <nunuvyer@netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:Sa-dneI_3cn5xqzbnZ2dnUVZ_uiknZ2d@comcast.com...
>> Aluminum is one of the most common elements in the earth's crust so a lot
>> of vegetables take it up. Also deodorants, antacids. Cookware should
>> not be a major source unless used for acid foods. The claim was that
>> Alzheimber patients had alu. in their brains but this is almost certainly
>> an effect rather than a cause of the disease.
>>
>>
> This myth gained support when brains of alzheimer sufferers were found to
> contain high levels of alumina. 20 years later (or was it 30? I forget...)
> it was discovered that the sections had been stored on aluminium trays
> prior to analysis, & had become contaminated. The whole
> Alzheimers/aluminium link theory was based on this one study, now
> officially discredited.
>
> Source: a doco i saw. I think it was BBC, it certainly was british, but- I
> just can't remember. Now, where's my aluminioum moka pot? Must be time for
> another shot...
>
> All joking aside, the doco was real. I haven't the time to google for it,
> maybe someone else does.
> And my moka pot is S/S, because it tastes better.


But i did find this interesting discussion:
http://www2b.abc.net.au/science/k2/stn/archives/archive52/newposts/363/topic363178.shtm





      
Date: 27 Apr 2007 16:23:01
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Moka pot busted?
Howdy Natalie Drest!

Here's are a handful of links to respected sources that deal with aluminum &
Alzheimer:
* http://www.niehs.nih.gov/external/faq/aluminum.htm
*
http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/Facts_about_dementia/Risk_factors/info_aluminium.htm
* http://www.alzheimer.ca/english/disease/causes-alumi.htm
* http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/152/1/59
*
http://pubs.ama-assn.org/cgi/search?fulltext=aluminum+alzheimer&submit.x=15&submit.y=9
* http://www.alz.org/national/documents/FSAluminum.pdf
* And here is an excerpt from:
http://www.alzinfo.org/alzheimers-research-causes-nongenetic.asp

"One of the most publicized and controversial hypotheses about risk factors
for Alzheimer's concerns aluminum, which became a suspect when researchers
found traces of this metal in the brains of Alzheimer's patients. Many
studies since then have either not been able to confirm this finding or have
had questionable results. Aluminum does turn up in higher amounts than
normal in some autopsy studies of Alzheimer's patients, but not in all, and
the aluminum found in some studies may have come from substances used in the
laboratory to study brain tissue. Moreover, various studies have found that
groups of people exposed to high levels of aluminum do not have an increased
risk. On the whole, scientists can say only that it is still uncertain
whether exposure to aluminum plays a role in Alzheimer's disease."

Given the implications of the last sentence in the quote (which is repeated
in every credible article cited), I for one can live without my ol' Brikka &
aluminum sauté pans. It's not as though we don't have alternative, so why
take the risk no matter how small or imaginary it is?
--
Robert (Gig 'em!) Harmon
www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj - My coffee pages
www.tinyurl.com/2tnv87 - Guidelines for newbies.
www.tinyurl.com/37gwfr - I may have stuff available for sale here.

"Natalie Drest" <fugeddaboudit@notarealemailaddress.net > wrote in message
news:4631f36d$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>
> "Natalie Drest" <fugeddaboudit@notarealemailaddress.net> wrote in message
> news:4631ee41$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>>
>> "Jack Denver" <nunuvyer@netscape.net> wrote in message
>> news:Sa-dneI_3cn5xqzbnZ2dnUVZ_uiknZ2d@comcast.com...
>>> Aluminum is one of the most common elements in the earth's crust so a
>>> lot of vegetables take it up. Also deodorants, antacids. Cookware
>>> should not be a major source unless used for acid foods. The claim was
>>> that Alzheimber patients had alu. in their brains but this is almost
>>> certainly an effect rather than a cause of the disease.
>>>
>>>
>> This myth gained support when brains of alzheimer sufferers were found to
>> contain high levels of alumina. 20 years later (or was it 30? I
>> forget...) it was discovered that the sections had been stored on
>> aluminium trays prior to analysis, & had become contaminated. The whole
>> Alzheimers/aluminium link theory was based on this one study, now
>> officially discredited.
>>
>> Source: a doco i saw. I think it was BBC, it certainly was british, but-
>> I just can't remember. Now, where's my aluminioum moka pot? Must be time
>> for another shot...
>>
>> All joking aside, the doco was real. I haven't the time to google for it,
>> maybe someone else does.
>> And my moka pot is S/S, because it tastes better.
>
>
> But i did find this interesting discussion:
> http://www2b.abc.net.au/science/k2/stn/archives/archive52/newposts/363/topic363178.shtm
>
>
>




       
Date: 27 Apr 2007 13:07:22
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Moka pot busted?
They can't say for certain whether coffee gives you cancer either. You could
drink tea - that's an alternative too. Or only distilled water - that's
close to 100% risk free. It now appears that aluminum was falsely charged
to begin with and somehow in this whole crazy process the burden of proof
has shifted around and aluminum has to prove it's innocence. People's
perceptions of risks are really skewed - they'll refuse to use an aluminum
frying pan, whose risk is "small or imaginary" as you say, but then they'll
gladly ride a motorcycle or go skiing, which have known and substantial
risks that are much greater. Or for that matter, get in an automobile -
every time you get in a car and drive to the store for some un-essential
thing your risk of death or serious injury is many thousands of times
greater than the risk from making an omelet in an aluminum pan. The same
people who would never keep a firearm in their house because they perceive
them as dangers to children have swimming pools in their backyard that are
statistically hundreds of times more likely to kill their children than a
gun.


"Robert Harmon" <r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com > wrote in message news:FrpYh.9164On
the whole, scientists can say only that it is still uncertain
> whether exposure to aluminum plays a role in Alzheimer's disease."
>
> Given the implications of the last sentence in the quote (which is
> repeated in every credible article cited), I for one can live without my
> ol' Brikka & aluminum sauté pans. It's not as though we don't have
> alternative, so why take the risk no matter how small or imaginary it is?
> --




        
Date: 27 Apr 2007 17:42:28
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Moka pot busted?
Howdy Jack!
Everything you say about human nature and selective risk aversion is true.
However, there is something very frightening about Alzheimer's that takes it
to another level of concern. If you've seen it's devastating progression
from being an annoyance to slowly destroying a loved one while you watch
helplessly, you'll know what I mean. There's a *huge* difference between,
"...scientists can say only that it is still uncertain whether exposure to
aluminum plays a role in Alzheimer's disease." & stating that aluminum has
been falsely accused.

Yeah, I have a lake practically at my back door, a lap pool, swimming pool &
hot tub. I own a boat, drive fast cars, fly airplanes, play high-stakes
poker, drink single-malt whiskey, and at one time chased loose women. These
all are dangerous activities to a degree, but there are only two things left
at my age that truly frighten the crap out of me; Alzheimer's & mad cow
diseases.
--
Robert (Gig 'em!) Harmon
www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj - My coffee pages
www.tinyurl.com/2tnv87 - Guidelines for newbies.
www.tinyurl.com/37gwfr - I may have stuff available for sale here.

"Jack Denver" <nunuvyer@netscape.net > wrote in message
news:PeednT3QlflWsK_bnZ2dnUVZ_vKunZ2d@comcast.com...
> They can't say for certain whether coffee gives you cancer either. You
> could drink tea - that's an alternative too. Or only distilled water -
> that's close to 100% risk free. It now appears that aluminum was falsely
> charged to begin with and somehow in this whole crazy process the burden
> of proof has shifted around and aluminum has to prove it's innocence.
> People's perceptions of risks are really skewed - they'll refuse to use an
> aluminum frying pan, whose risk is "small or imaginary" as you say, but
> then they'll gladly ride a motorcycle or go skiing, which have known and
> substantial risks that are much greater. Or for that matter, get in an
> automobile - every time you get in a car and drive to the store for some
> un-essential thing your risk of death or serious injury is many thousands
> of times greater than the risk from making an omelet in an aluminum pan.
> The same people who would never keep a firearm in their house because they
> perceive them as dangers to children have swimming pools in their backyard
> that are statistically hundreds of times more likely to kill their
> children than a gun.
>
>
> "Robert Harmon" <r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:FrpYh.9164On the whole, scientists can say only that it is still
> uncertain
>> whether exposure to aluminum plays a role in Alzheimer's disease."
>>
>> Given the implications of the last sentence in the quote (which is
>> repeated in every credible article cited), I for one can live without my
>> ol' Brikka & aluminum sauté pans. It's not as though we don't have
>> alternative, so why take the risk no matter how small or imaginary it is?
>> --
>
>




         
Date: 27 Apr 2007 14:43:10
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Moka pot busted?
Do you understand that the endless studies of the "link" between Alzeheimers
and aluminum would never have been pursued but for one screwed up study
where it now appears that the aluminum was in the lab reagent and not in the
brain tissue to begin with? The whole avenue of research began with a wrong
turn. It's next to impossible to prove a negative ("aluminum plays NO role
in Alzheimer's disease") but there was never any good reason to suspect
aluminum in the first place any more than bananas or wearing shoes. Neither
of these have been "proven" to have no role in Alzheimers either but I'm not
going barefoot.

"Mad cow" is another example of screwed up risk perception - the
consequences of the disease are horrendous but the number of human victims
has been tiny - you're much more likely to be hit by lightning. One of the
big elements of human's screwed up risk perception has to do with perceived
"lack of control" - people are very fearful of invisible forces beyond
their control (being "poisoned" by aluminum, nuclear waste, hamburgers,
etc.) but are willing to take on large risks when they perceive that they
are "controlling" them (driving fast car/plane/boat) because if you ask
people to agree/disagree with the statement "I am a lousy driver" 99% will
disagree - everyone is a "great" driver in their mind - it's all the other
guys on the road who are bozos.







"Robert Harmon" <r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com > wrote in message
news:8CqYh.5873$j63.4947@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Howdy Jack!
> Everything you say about human nature and selective risk aversion is true.
> However, there is something very frightening about Alzheimer's that takes
> it to another level of concern. If you've seen it's devastating
> progression from being an annoyance to slowly destroying a loved one while
> you watch helplessly, you'll know what I mean. There's a *huge* difference
> between, "...scientists can say only that it is still uncertain whether
> exposure to aluminum plays a role in Alzheimer's disease." & stating that
> aluminum has been falsely accused.
>
> Yeah, I have a lake practically at my back door, a lap pool, swimming pool
> & hot tub. I own a boat, drive fast cars, fly airplanes, play high-stakes
> poker, drink single-malt whiskey, and at one time chased loose women.
> These all are dangerous activities to a degree, but there are only two
> things left at my age that truly frighten the crap out of me; Alzheimer's
> & mad cow diseases.
> --
> Robert (Gig 'em!) Harmon




    
Date: 27 Apr 2007 10:14:12
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: Moka pot busted?
"Jack Denver" <nunuvyer@netscape.net > wrote:



 
Date: 26 Apr 2007 11:36:00
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Moka pot busted?
It could be lime scale in the water. Try using a low mineral bottled water.
In any case it should be harmless.


"PB" <prinsbernard@web.de > wrote in message
news:0badnb9QgbZaAa3bRVnytQA@casema.nl...
> Some time ago while waiting for my coffee to be ready I suddenly came to
> the conclusion that I had forgotten to put water into it, how stupid! I
> was afraid my Moka Express would be fit for the waste bin, and that the
> rubber thing probably would have melted. I decided to let it all cool down
> and after that I inspected the whole thing. To my surprise everything
> looked just normal and the rubber had not melted at all. I think this has
> to do with using an electric (ceramic even) stove (medium heat setting)
> instead of a gas stove.
>
> So I felt relieved and continued using my Moka. Now when I clean the thing
> and let it dry some white stuff is appearing in the water reservoir. I can
> rub it out and it will be ok for some time but it keeps coming back. I
> have no clue what this might be? As im using an aluminium pot I thought
> about aluminium oxide or corrossion maybe. Is there something I can do
> about this? The stuff looks white and a little gooey. When I let it dry it
> will turn into powdery stuff.
>
> Thank you!
> PB
>