coffee-forum.net
Promoting coffee discussion.

Main
Date: 26 Dec 2006 14:21:21
From: Jack Denver
Subject: NY Times article on Illy
Here's an interesting bit of history, courtesy of today's NY Times:

"It was Andrea Illy's grandfather, Francesco Illy, who back in the 1930s
invented the espresso, a steam-driven coffee maker to replace the little
pots Italians used until then."


This was printed in "the newspaper of record" so it must be true - please
alert all the encyclopedias and reference books so they can change their
future editions accordingly. I didn't know it was possible to get so many
facts wrong in a single sentence - this must be a new record. Is "fact
checking" a lost art?

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/26/business/worldbusiness/26eurocoffee.html?ex=1324789200&en=a673899e30150e0b&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

Later we learn that Illy (despite being the inventor of "the espresso") has
not been able to obtain a tradek on the word, allowing pretender such as
Starbucks to call their products "the espresso" as well. Fortunately, Illy
is well positioned to be the Gucci or Chanel of coffee, due to the great
consistency of their product. Do reporters in 1st class newspapers
nowadays just spout back whatever BS company flacks tell them, as if they
were writing for the local free advertiser? Is there no time to do
research, not even a google search? I don't know whether to laugh or cry.






 
Date: 26 Dec 2006 20:49:11
From: Flasherly
Subject: Re: NY Times article on Illy

yetanotherBob wrote:
> >
> Depending upon who's your mom, probably *not* the Bettie Page look-alike
> version, imo.

She looks, hm, akin to hungry - from her earliest work and horror
films. When I shoot, I do series studies for oil portraits, and that
one would seem potentially intriguing for formulative development.



 
Date: 26 Dec 2006 18:10:57
From: Flasherly
Subject: Re: NY Times article on Illy
Lloyd Parsons wrote:
> Absolutely not, Mrs. Olson was a peach! ;-)

a) Mrs. Olson:
http://www.nndb.com/people/436/000102130/virginia-christine-1-sized.jpg

a-prime) For the boys 'over there':
http://www.skylighters.org/ggparade/virginiachristine1.jpg

b) Stock & Standards portfolio glamour shot:
http://gfx.filmweb.pl/p/51486/po.67840.jpg

c) "B-grade" crew cast shot (2nd row, far right & click, and intrigue):
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.spookytoms.com/TN-VChristine.JPG&imgrefurl=http://www.spookytoms.com/Tributes_C.html&h=80&w=72&sz=6&hl=en&start=59&tbnid=L5iQI1ecWe6yyM:&tbnh=74&tbnw=67&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522Virginia%2BChristine%2522%26start%3D40%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN

And, for the winner of the 'gal most likely to be taken home to mom',
will our contestants please select the correct answer from above for -
who is the real Virgina Christine... .



  
Date: 26 Dec 2006 21:28:41
From: yetanotherBob
Subject: Re: NY Times article on Illy
In article <1167185457.678945.212320@42g2000cwt.googlegroups.com >,
gjerrell@ij.net says...
>
> And, for the winner of the 'gal most likely to be taken home to mom',
> will our contestants please select the correct answer from above for -
> who is the real Virgina Christine... .
>
Depending upon who's your mom, probably *not* the Bettie Page look-alike
version, imo.

Bob


 
Date: 26 Dec 2006 22:19:08
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: NY Times article on Illy
On Tue, 26 Dec 2006 14:21:21 -0500, "Jack Denver"
<nunuvyer@netscape.net > wrote:

>Here's an interesting bit of history, courtesy of today's NY Times:
>
>"It was Andrea Illy's grandfather, Francesco Illy, who back in the 1930s
>invented the espresso, a steam-driven coffee maker to replace the little
>pots Italians used until then."
>
>
>This was printed in "the newspaper of record" so it must be true - please
>alert all the encyclopedias and reference books so they can change their
>future editions accordingly. I didn't know it was possible to get so many
>facts wrong in a single sentence - this must be a new record. Is "fact
>checking" a lost art?

Sloppy, indeed. But, the main points of the story (keting, branding
and future U.S. expansion) were quite interesting. In a few years, I
see boulevardier, Jack Denver, whiling his afternoons away, reading
the "National Review" at the Philadelphia Espressamente.

By the way, I had a startling Illy experience last night at a
Christmas dinner. Our hosts served a drip coffee that knocked my socks
off. Chocolate, fruit, rich mouth feel. Of course I asked what it was.
It was pre-ground Illy (medium drip grind), just opened and brewed on
a Kitchen Aid, drip machine. I won't vouch for how it brewed the next
morning. But that was one impressive blend of coffees, roasted by
people who knew what they were doing. I'm not a big fan of Illy
espressos, but that drip was positively magical. I had three cups.

shall


  
Date: 26 Dec 2006 17:37:21
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: NY Times article on Illy
It had better be better than the Philadelphia Hausbrandt cafe - what a
nighte that place was the last (and only) time I was there with saggy
torn chairs and an untrained (and tiny) staff. More like the old Horn &
Hardarts where the guy at the next table was always talking to his (tinfoil
lined) hat than Parisian cafe society. Philadelphia is a long way from
Trieste or Vienna and it takes a better management structure that
Hausbrandt has (or I suspect Illy has) to keep the reins tight when they
are 3000 miles long.

PS I prefer the Weekly Standard.






"shall" <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote in message
news:va73p2dt5ern7imrq67ic7ol54tv4jsabi@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 26 Dec 2006 14:21:21 -0500, "Jack Denver"
> <nunuvyer@netscape.net> wrote:
>
>
> Sloppy, indeed. But, the main points of the story (keting, branding
> and future U.S. expansion) were quite interesting. In a few years, I
> see boulevardier, Jack Denver, whiling his afternoons away, reading
> the "National Review" at the Philadelphia Espressamente.
>




 
Date: 26 Dec 2006 12:40:15
From: Martin
Subject: Re: NY Times article on Illy
What's (perhaps) worse is that the PR info itself is misreported:

http://www.illy.com/illy2006/en-INT/about-illy/philosophy/legacy/

makes it clear that Illy's machine used compressed air rather than
steam for espresso...

As for Illy, despite forgetting the history of Gaggia's lever, you can
buy a Gaggia (uh, Saeco?) Classic from them (with 'extras') for only
$600...



Jack Denver wrote:
> Here's an interesting bit of history, courtesy of today's NY Times:
>
> "It was Andrea Illy's grandfather, Francesco Illy, who back in the 1930s
> invented the espresso, a steam-driven coffee maker to replace the little
> pots Italians used until then."
>
>
> This was printed in "the newspaper of record" so it must be true - please
> alert all the encyclopedias and reference books so they can change their
> future editions accordingly. I didn't know it was possible to get so many
> facts wrong in a single sentence - this must be a new record. Is "fact
> checking" a lost art?
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/26/business/worldbusiness/26eurocoffee.html?ex=1324789200&en=a673899e30150e0b&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss
>
> Later we learn that Illy (despite being the inventor of "the espresso") has
> not been able to obtain a tradek on the word, allowing pretender such as
> Starbucks to call their products "the espresso" as well. Fortunately, Illy
> is well positioned to be the Gucci or Chanel of coffee, due to the great
> consistency of their product. Do reporters in 1st class newspapers
> nowadays just spout back whatever BS company flacks tell them, as if they
> were writing for the local free advertiser? Is there no time to do
> research, not even a google search? I don't know whether to laugh or cry.



 
Date: 26 Dec 2006 12:28:12
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: NY Times article on Illy
"Jack Denver" <nunuvyer@netscape.net > wrote:

>Here's an interesting bit of history, courtesy of today's NY Times:
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/26/business/worldbusiness/26eurocoffee.html?ex=1324789200&en=a673899e30150e0b&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss
>
>"It was Andrea Illy's grandfather, Francesco Illy, who back in the 1930s
>invented the espresso, a steam-driven coffee maker to replace the little
>pots Italians used until then."
>
>This was printed in "the newspaper of record" so it must be true - please
>alert all the encyclopedias and reference books so they can change their
>future editions accordingly. I didn't know it was possible to get so many
>facts wrong in a single sentence - this must be a new record. Is "fact
>checking" a lost art?
>

The very first hit on Google for "Who Invented the espresso machine?"
states:
"The History of Coffee:
In 1933, Dr. Ernest Illy invented the first automatic espresso
machine. However, the modern-day espresso machine was created by
Italian Achilles Gaggia in ..."

So that alone might have been enough to prompt the author to do a bit
of investigation.

In that Times article it later states, "Mr. Illy acknowledged that in
a $4.50 cappuccino, the ingredients accounted for only about 10
percent of the price, the rest going to labor and advertising. Still,
that increased cash flow is also benefiting coffee growers around the
world, in Latin America and Africa, he said. In some countries, like
Costa Rica, premium coffees now account for 70 percent of the crop."
So about $.45 is for that coffee, and that represents the increased
cash flow to the farmer... Thanks, Mr. Ill....

>
>Later we learn that Illy (despite being the inventor of "the espresso") has
>not been able to obtain a tradek on the word, allowing pretender such as
>Starbucks to call their products "the espresso" as well. Fortunately, Illy
>is well positioned to be the Gucci or Chanel of coffee, due to the great
>consistency of their product. Do reporters in 1st class newspapers
>nowadays just spout back whatever BS company flacks tell them, as if they
>were writing for the local free advertiser? Is there no time to do
>research, not even a google search? I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
>
The article read more like a press release from Illy. it is a common
practice for large companies to send out "articles" like these.
Whatever the case, even if it were not submitted by Illy, it sure read
like it could have been.

Randy "accuracy in news? tee hee, and I don't mean tea" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com




  
Date: 26 Dec 2006 19:56:41
From: sprsso
Subject: Re: NY Times article on Illy
You know, if we are going to impart information that we expect people
to believe, based on our involvement in the coffee industry (or news
reporting), we should be more mathematically accurate. $0.45 would
include milk and cup cost. The actual coffee cost @, say $8.00/lb,
would translate to about $0.12 per 6.7gram dose (illy's standard).
If anyone is interested, I have a calculator that will compute drink
costs, machine investment recovery, etc. based on numbers you plug in
yourself, and another calculator can be found on General Espresso's
(Astoria) website. But I digress.
Regardless of how one might feel about illy's coffee and keting
blitzes, their hands-on involvement in improving growing, harvesting
techniques and their efforts to better the lives and incomes of
farmers is well documented. It happens that illy's life and income is
also enhanced in the process...al
>
>So that alone might have been enough to prompt the author to do a bit
>of investigation.
>
>In that Times article it later states, "Mr. Illy acknowledged that in
>a $4.50 cappuccino, the ingredients accounted for only about 10
>percent of the price, the rest going to labor and advertising. Still,
>that increased cash flow is also benefiting coffee growers around the
>world, in Latin America and Africa, he said. In some countries, like
>Costa Rica, premium coffees now account for 70 percent of the crop."



>So about $.45 is for that coffee, and that represents the increased
>cash flow to the farmer... Thanks, Mr. Ill....
>
>>

> Randy "accuracy in news? tee hee, and I don't mean tea" G.
> http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
>
>



 
Date: 26 Dec 2006 14:22:31
From: jim schulman
Subject: Re: NY Times article on Illy
On Tue, 26 Dec 2006 14:21:21 -0500, "Jack Denver"
<nunuvyer@netscape.net > wrote:

>Here's an interesting bit of history, courtesy of today's NY Times:
>
>"It was Andrea Illy's grandfather, Francesco Illy, who back in the 1930s
>invented the espresso, a steam-driven coffee maker to replace the little
>pots Italians used until then."
>

They certainly need a new business editor.

What does come through is that Andrea is not a chip off the old block.
It sounds like he's going to do the same "Luxury Brand" thing as
Cartier, Lindt, and most Swiss watches, sell mass produced bilge
through fancy channels to the rich and taste deficient at ridiculously
inflated prices.


  
Date: 26 Dec 2006 17:26:01
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: NY Times article on Illy
Yes, that was the vibe I got as well. The comparison to Swiss watches is
appropriate. Apparently while there is a limit to how much people will pay
for the time or a cup of coffee, there is no limit to how much they are
willing to pay for "status".

The idea at the end that people would pay big for "consistency" confused
me - I know that Illy prides itself on its blending skill and consistent
taste profile regardless of crop year or bean availability, but I'm not sure
this is something consumers really crave (especially in the US - I think
Italian consumers do crave their familiar cup somewhat). But if I play
work association "consistent tasting beverage" in the US comes up with
"Coca Cola", not "Champagne" as Illy would have it.





"jim schulman" <jim_schulman@ameritech.net > wrote in message
news:fr03p295da36n6b07tsbdpttecp01vvbkc@4ax.com...
>>
> They certainly need a new business editor.
>
> What does come through is that Andrea is not a chip off the old block.
> It sounds like he's going to do the same "Luxury Brand" thing as
> Cartier, Lindt, and most Swiss watches, sell mass produced bilge
> through fancy channels to the rich and taste deficient at ridiculously
> inflated prices.




   
Date: 26 Dec 2006 18:09:53
From: jim schulman
Subject: Re: NY Times article on Illy
On Tue, 26 Dec 2006 17:26:01 -0500, "Jack Denver"
<nunuvyer@netscape.net > wrote:

>Yes, that was the vibe I got as well. The comparison to Swiss watches is
>appropriate. Apparently while there is a limit to how much people will pay
>for the time or a cup of coffee, there is no limit to how much they are
>willing to pay for "status".
>
>The idea at the end that people would pay big for "consistency" confused
>me -

He may have been talking out of school. You don't tell the "status"
crowd that your using the same QC methods as every other mass
producer; but I'm sure the keting people have discovered that the
Levittown with Palladian cladding crowd is even more allergic to the
unexpected than the average cionsumer.


   
Date: 26 Dec 2006 22:36:55
From: Marshall
Subject: Re: NY Times article on Illy
On Tue, 26 Dec 2006 17:26:01 -0500, "Jack Denver"
<nunuvyer@netscape.net > wrote:

>Yes, that was the vibe I got as well. The comparison to Swiss watches is
>appropriate. Apparently while there is a limit to how much people will pay
>for the time or a cup of coffee, there is no limit to how much they are
>willing to pay for "status".
>
>The idea at the end that people would pay big for "consistency" confused
>me - I know that Illy prides itself on its blending skill and consistent
>taste profile regardless of crop year or bean availability, but I'm not sure
>this is something consumers really crave (especially in the US - I think
>Italian consumers do crave their familiar cup somewhat). But if I play
>work association "consistent tasting beverage" in the US comes up with
>"Coca Cola", not "Champagne" as Illy would have it.

American roasters and tea companies spend gazillions maintaining a
consistent taste profile for their mass-produced blends. One of the
science channels had a show on tea last week that showed how the
cuppers constantly update the tea blends (they use dozens of origins)
on computer panels that adjust blends in real time. All for
consistency.

shall


    
Date: 26 Dec 2006 16:49:33
From: Lloyd Parsons
Subject: Re: NY Times article on Illy
In article <kp83p29qmg7v4s3un5l4e7qk99hvu8mkjp@4ax.com >,
shall <mrfuss@ihatespamearthlink.net > wrote:

> On Tue, 26 Dec 2006 17:26:01 -0500, "Jack Denver"
> <nunuvyer@netscape.net> wrote:
>
> >Yes, that was the vibe I got as well. The comparison to Swiss watches is
> >appropriate. Apparently while there is a limit to how much people will pay
> >for the time or a cup of coffee, there is no limit to how much they are
> >willing to pay for "status".
> >
> >The idea at the end that people would pay big for "consistency" confused
> >me - I know that Illy prides itself on its blending skill and consistent
> >taste profile regardless of crop year or bean availability, but I'm not sure
> >this is something consumers really crave (especially in the US - I think
> >Italian consumers do crave their familiar cup somewhat). But if I play
> >work association "consistent tasting beverage" in the US comes up with
> >"Coca Cola", not "Champagne" as Illy would have it.
>
> American roasters and tea companies spend gazillions maintaining a
> consistent taste profile for their mass-produced blends. One of the
> science channels had a show on tea last week that showed how the
> cuppers constantly update the tea blends (they use dozens of origins)
> on computer panels that adjust blends in real time. All for
> consistency.
>
> shall

My late uncle was General Manager for Folgers back when it was a family
business and I can still remember the unlabled cans of coffee he used to
bring home to do his tastings. They were anal about a particular taste
that had to be there regardless of what blend it took to attain it.


     
Date:
From:
Subject:


   
Date: 26 Dec 2006 22:33:14
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: NY Times article on Illy
On Tue, 26 Dec 2006 17:26:01 -0500, "Jack Denver"
<nunuvyer@netscape.net > wrote:

>work association "consistent tasting beverage" in the US comes up with
>"Coca Cola", not "Champagne" as Illy would have it.


"folgers"