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Date: 17 Oct 2006 12:33:03
From: Harry Moos
Subject: Natural taste
I just found my notes from a conference I attended years ago on alcohol
abuse. One speaker was talking about natural tastes versus acquired tastes.
Sweet fruit juice was an example of a natural taste and coffee of an
acquired taste. He said coffee is an unpleasant natural taste, but becomes
pleasant when we associate it with parents [a little coffee in milk to be
"grown up"], friends [coffee breaks], situations [coffee shop atmosphere],
etc. Nothing new there. But he made the comment that if your dog won't
touch it, it must be an acquired taste. While I haven't given my lab
espresso, she seems to eat/drink anything I give her EXCEPT jalapeno
peppers. So, just curious, does anyone have a dog that likes coffee?






 
Date: 29 Oct 2006 15:06:38
From: Omniryx@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Natural taste
When my son was maybe 3 he corrected a dinner guest on the
pronounciation of foie gras.



Brent wrote:
> My three year old only now refers to olives as "olives" used to confuse
> visitors when she would demand "lollies" at the dinner table and we said OK.
> She couldn't say olive, but could say lolly!



  
Date: 31 Oct 2006 17:26:51
From: Brent
Subject: Re: Natural taste
My six year old son is now advising on the pouring of good latte art, and
critiqueing all attempts or otherwise...



> When my son was maybe 3 he corrected a dinner guest on the
> pronounciation of foie gras.
>
>
>
> Brent wrote:
>> My three year old only now refers to olives as "olives" used to confuse
>> visitors when she would demand "lollies" at the dinner table and we said
>> OK.
>> She couldn't say olive, but could say lolly!
>




 
Date: 28 Oct 2006 05:53:22
From: ramboorider@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Natural taste


On Oct 28, 4:45 am, "B. Wright" <bmwri...@xmission.com > wrote:
> ramboori...@gmail.com <ramboori...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Maybe that's why God/Evolution (your pick) made mothers milk sweet.
> > More babies would respond positively and survive past infancy. Imagine
> > what our species would be like if mothers milk tasted like a perfectly
> > brewed shot of espresso. Or a really good 100% agave shot of tequila. A
> > much smaller surviving cohort, I'd guess and snobby as all hell without
> > anyone to feel superior to.

>I imagine it's actually that way so we don't try to keep the
> women lactating tequila and espresso long after the baby is too old to
> be breast feeding. :) Would it even be called lactating though? Maybe
> caffeinating and inebriating instead?

OK, fair enough. But imagine it WITHOUT the chemical componant, if such
is possible, and just based on taste. That'd be quite an odd little
population, no?

-Ray



 
Date: 28 Oct 2006 08:21:42
From: B. Wright
Subject: Re: Natural taste
Harry Moos <harrym@ruraltel.net > wrote:
> I just found my notes from a conference I attended years ago on alcohol
> abuse. One speaker was talking about natural tastes versus acquired tastes.
> Sweet fruit juice was an example of a natural taste and coffee of an
> acquired taste. He said coffee is an unpleasant natural taste, but becomes
> pleasant when we associate it with parents [a little coffee in milk to be
> "grown up"], friends [coffee breaks], situations [coffee shop atmosphere],
> etc. Nothing new there. But he made the comment that if your dog won't
> touch it, it must be an acquired taste. While I haven't given my lab
> espresso, she seems to eat/drink anything I give her EXCEPT jalapeno
> peppers. So, just curious, does anyone have a dog that likes coffee?

We had a dog that loved to eat whole bean (roasted, not green)
coffee. Never tried to give her brewed coffee but who knows, maybe she
would have liked that too. Also never gave her more than a few at any
time so she wasn't getting much caffeine out of it really.



 
Date: 19 Oct 2006 16:27:52
From: Phil P
Subject: Re: Natural taste

Harry Moos wrote:
> Dan, it's not a mysterious, magic, sudden 'finding' a taste. It's a process
> that takes place over time IF conditions are such that you keep trying the
> food or drink. Coffee is not a naturally good flavor. Although I have
> learned to like it, it took time. A long time. Even in college, I didn't
> like it -- but it was cheap, and it was the thing to do late at night to go
> out with friends for coffee and talk. It was a way to meet people. It was
> even a way to stay awake. And finally, one day I thought, "This is good --
> for coffee." The next step was: "This is good coffee." Now, one child who
> drinks coffee proves nothing. He/She may drink it for taste, or to please
> an adult, or because the cup is pretty. But, in general, small children
> don't like the taste -- unless it is loaded with milk and sugar. Not so
> different from many adults, is it?

Had a strange experience a few years ago when coming back to coffee
after a 10-week abstinence from it. I was shocked by how alien it
tasted -- almost 'poisonous'. I certainly believe in the acquired
taste concept, although I think it's initially more allied with
pleasurable physical effects than social factors, as with tobacco
smoking.



 
Date: 19 Oct 2006 08:57:15
From: Leo95se
Subject: Re: Natural taste
reading all these replies is awesome.. reminds me how much i like
animals. :)

my family has and has had a good collection of animals.
running through the list:
my ferrets love juices, esp OJ and cranberry
one seems like like soda a bit too
one love wine. that cracks me up! no other alc beverages though.
neither like coffee

quaker parrot loves tea, esp with cookies. coffee is deadly for her
though, so we wont be finding out.

most of the dogs through the years like almost anything, including
scotch (just the first time though, why cant we learn from them!) none
of them have liked coffee though.

as a kid, and even through college, i didnt like coffee. i definately
forced myself to acquire a taste for it.



 
Date: 19 Oct 2006 05:52:10
From: ramboorider@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Natural taste
As a newbie here, let me change the focus a bit. Perhaps what we're
talking about isn't an on-off switch of like or dislike, but perhaps
learning to appreciate subtlety is something that takes time. Sweet is
a simple taste, as is sour, as is salty. And even someone very young
can instantly 'understand' those taste sensations and know pretty
quickly whether they like them or not. But all of the subtle gradations
of flavor available in a really good shot of espresso are not easily
comprehended by the very young (mostly - there are exceptions as
demonstrated here). Same with some green vegetables. A really good
brussle sprout is a thing to behold, sort of nutty and subtlely sweet,
similar to descriptions of good coffee, btw. But almost NO little kids
like brussel sprouts or broccoli and plenty of adults don't either.
Same with really good dark chocolate. But pretty much EVERYONE likes
good milk chocolate because the sweetness sells it as soon as it hits
your pallete.

Maybe that's why God/Evolution (your pick) made mothers milk sweet.
More babies would respond positively and survive past infancy. Imagine
what our species would be like if mothers milk tasted like a perfectly
brewed shot of espresso. Or a really good 100% agave shot of tequila. A
much smaller surviving cohort, I'd guess and snobby as all hell without
anyone to feel superior to.

-Ray



  
Date: 28 Oct 2006 08:45:13
From: B. Wright
Subject: Re: Natural taste
ramboorider@gmail.com <ramboorider@gmail.com > wrote:

> Maybe that's why God/Evolution (your pick) made mothers milk sweet.
> More babies would respond positively and survive past infancy. Imagine
> what our species would be like if mothers milk tasted like a perfectly
> brewed shot of espresso. Or a really good 100% agave shot of tequila. A
> much smaller surviving cohort, I'd guess and snobby as all hell without
> anyone to feel superior to.

I imagine it's actually that way so we don't try to keep the
women lactating tequila and espresso long after the baby is too old to
be breast feeding. :) Would it even be called lactating though? Maybe
caffeinating and inebriating instead?



 
Date: 17 Oct 2006 19:50:13
From: Dan Bollinger
Subject: Re: Natural taste
>I just found my notes from a conference I attended years ago on alcohol abuse.
>One speaker was talking about natural tastes versus acquired tastes.

Everyone once in awhile people talk about the so-called 'acquired' taste effect.
Personally, I don't think it exists. I think it is an unfounded invention. For
instance, my 3-year old grandaughter loves cappacinos, even without sugar added.
She would drink a cup if I let her. (She get's hers in a shot glass and dinky
spoon) She'd drink espresso if I let her. Dan



  
Date: 17 Oct 2006 19:38:13
From: jim schulman
Subject: Re: Natural taste
On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:50:13 -0400, "Dan Bollinger"
<danNObollinger@insightSPAMbb.com > wrote:

>Everyone once in awhile people talk about the so-called 'acquired' taste effect.
>Personally, I don't think it exists.

There's no food or drink you like now that you didn't like at age
five?

I think you're right that there's no clear evidence for innate baby
tastes that mature in some systematic way as one ages -- it's probably
more an effect of overly sweetened and otherwise tasteless baby foods
creating the typical baby's taste that one either has to be overcome
or else live with junk food obesity or permanent dieting.

But people's tastes change all the time with experience -- my tastes
in coffees has certainly changed since I've been roasting myself.


   
Date: 18 Oct 2006 07:13:47
From: Moka Java
Subject: Re: Natural taste
jim schulman wrote:

> -- my tastes
> in coffees has certainly changed since I've been roasting myself.

Roasting yourself must hurt like hell! Do the screams and smell of
burning flesh arouse much attention from the neighbors?

R "buy hey, whatever you're in to!" TF


    
Date: 18 Oct 2006 17:47:33
From: jim schulman
Subject: Re: Natural taste
On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 07:13:47 -0400, Moka Java
<rtwatches@fishyahoo.com > wrote:

>jim schulman wrote:
>
>> -- my tastes
>> in coffees has certainly changed since I've been roasting myself.
>
>Roasting yourself must hurt like hell! Do the screams and smell of
>burning flesh arouse much attention from the neighbors?
>
>R "buy hey, whatever you're in to!" TF

Hoisted on my own dangling modifier petard!

I've installed a custom exhaust fan to duict out the smells and sounds
when I do roast myself.


    
Date: 18 Oct 2006 09:18:54
From: Dan Bollinger
Subject: Re: Natural taste
> Roasting yourself must hurt like hell! Do the screams and smell of
> burning flesh arouse much attention from the neighbors?
>

Jim wouldn't scream, he's a man's man! ;)




   
Date: 18 Oct 2006 03:26:57
From: David Lewis
Subject: Re: Natural taste
On 2006-10-17 17:38:13 -0700, jim schulman <jim_schulman@ameritech.net > said:

> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:50:13 -0400, "Dan Bollinger"
> <danNObollinger@insightSPAMbb.com> wrote:
>
>> Everyone once in awhile people talk about the so-called 'acquired'
>> taste effect. Personally, I don't think it exists.
>
> I think you're right that there's no clear evidence for innate baby
> tastes that mature in some systematic way as one ages -- it's probably
> more an effect of overly sweetened and otherwise tasteless baby foods
> creating the typical baby's taste that one either has to be overcome
> or else live with junk food obesity or permanent dieting.

Anecdotally, I have watched a very young child suck on a lemon. He bit
into the lemon, screwed his face up as you would expect, and then did
it again, repeatedly! This convinced me that the idea of innate tastes
that all children either liked or disliked was bogus. I'll admit to
having an agenda here, revolving around my wife's protestations that I
can't cook with xxx ingredient if various children are going to be
eating, because "kids won't eat that!"

Admittedly, this is a different question from that of whether or not
there is such a thing as an acquired taste, in the sense of a taste one
initially found unpleasant that one later learns to like. Dan may be
defining it more narrowly.

Best,
David



    
Date: 18 Oct 2006 09:17:37
From: Dan Bollinger
Subject: Re: Natural taste
> Admittedly, this is a different question from that of whether or not there is
> such a thing as an acquired taste, in the sense of a taste one initially found
> unpleasant that one later learns to like. Dan may be defining it more
> narrowly.

David, Actually, I'm objecting to people defining 'acquired taste' at all. I'm
saying that it is an invention, does not exist, and therefore does not qualify
for a definition unless you put a disqualifier such as 'alleged' or 'The
falsehood that...' in front of it.

Dan



     
Date: 19 Oct 2006 11:37:52
From: Moka Java
Subject: Re: Natural taste
Dan Bollinger wrote:
>> Admittedly, this is a different question from that of whether or not
>> there is such a thing as an acquired taste, in the sense of a taste
>> one initially found unpleasant that one later learns to like. Dan may
>> be defining it more narrowly.
>
>
> David, Actually, I'm objecting to people defining 'acquired taste' at
> all. I'm saying that it is an invention, does not exist, and therefore
> does not qualify for a definition unless you put a disqualifier such as
> 'alleged' or 'The falsehood that...' in front of it.
>
> Dan

35 years ago Yodels were my favorite food. Now I can't stand 'em --
fake cream, bland cake and cruddy chocolate. Did I change or did Yodels
change? If I didn't like something my mother served she'd say: "You
don't know what good is!" But that never changed my mind.

R "always found the smell of coffee intoxicating" TF


   
Date: 17 Oct 2006 21:04:18
From: Dan Bollinger
Subject: Re: Natural taste
>>Everyone once in awhile people talk about the so-called 'acquired' taste
>>effect.
>>Personally, I don't think it exists.
>
> There's no food or drink you like now that you didn't like at age
> five?
>

That was a rhetorical question, right? ;)

> I think you're right that there's no clear evidence for innate baby
> tastes that mature in some systematic way as one ages -- it's probably
> more an effect of overly sweetened and otherwise tasteless baby foods
> creating the typical baby's taste that one either has to be overcome
> or else live with junk food obesity or permanent dieting.
>
> But people's tastes change all the time with experience -- my tastes
> in coffees has certainly changed since I've been roasting myself.

I'll go along with changing tastes over time, but that whole notion of somehow
mysteriously, magically, suddenly 'finding' a taste for something is, to me, a
falsehood.

Dan



    
Date: 18 Oct 2006 00:05:10
From: Harry Moos
Subject: Re: Natural taste
Dan, it's not a mysterious, magic, sudden 'finding' a taste. It's a process
that takes place over time IF conditions are such that you keep trying the
food or drink. Coffee is not a naturally good flavor. Although I have
learned to like it, it took time. A long time. Even in college, I didn't
like it -- but it was cheap, and it was the thing to do late at night to go
out with friends for coffee and talk. It was a way to meet people. It was
even a way to stay awake. And finally, one day I thought, "This is good --
for coffee." The next step was: "This is good coffee." Now, one child who
drinks coffee proves nothing. He/She may drink it for taste, or to please
an adult, or because the cup is pretty. But, in general, small children
don't like the taste -- unless it is loaded with milk and sugar. Not so
different from many adults, is it?

"Dan Bollinger" <danNObollinger@insightSPAMbb.com > wrote in message
news:ErSdnTm3G4YO4KjYnZ2dnUVZ_qWdnZ2d@insightbb.com...
>
> I'll go along with changing tastes over time, but that whole notion of
> somehow mysteriously, magically, suddenly 'finding' a taste for something
> is, to me, a falsehood.
>
> Dan




     
Date: 18 Oct 2006 14:34:36
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: Natural taste
On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 00:05:10 -0500, "Harry Moos" <harrym@ruraltel.net >
wrote:

>an adult, or because the cup is pretty. But, in general, small children
>don't like the taste -- unless it is loaded with milk and sugar. Not so
>different from many adults, is it?
>

i think it depends upon *when* the exposure takes place. if the
palate is introduced to sweet first, then bitters are less accepted.
humans will always accept sweet, no matter what age. to accept
bitters, they need to be introduced before sweets, which, in the US at
least, seems to be an extremely rare event.

maddie took to coffee the moment she tried it (at 4 months), and i
know of several other infants/toddlers who fancy it, too. mads drinks
coffee & espresso w/o milk or sugar or any additives. she doesn't get
a lot of it, but she certainly does NOT reject the taste (unless it's
a bad shot, as was memorably demonstrated at the scaa convention in
seattle, when she pushed a shot away and then wouldn't even let me
drink it).

coffee, for me, was an acquired taste, but i was raised on the '60s
diet of sugar.




      
Date: 28 Oct 2006 10:03:08
From: Lara
Subject: Re: Natural taste
Barry Jarrett <barry@rileys-coffee.com > wrote:

> i think it depends upon *when* the exposure takes place. if the
> palate is introduced to sweet first, then bitters are less accepted.
> humans will always accept sweet, no matter what age. to accept
> bitters, they need to be introduced before sweets, which, in the US at
> least, seems to be an extremely rare event.

Most babies start with sweet(ish), of course...
There's a body of research beginning to demonstrate that, on average,
breastfed babies experience less food neophobia when starting solids
than artificially fed babies. The breastfed babies have already been
exposed to a variety of flavours (garlic, vanilla, and so on) as the
milk changes with maternal diet.

<http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/101/3/S1/539 >
Skip down to "Early experience, learning, and children's food
preferences. There are always outliers, of course; I had to laugh at,
"This transition from univore to omnivore is shaped by the infant's
innate preference for sweet and salty tastes, by the rejection of sour
and bitter tastes". I guess they never saw my kid chowing down on a
pickled onion or begging for bread with balsamic vinegar as a "treat".

Lara


       
Date: 28 Oct 2006 12:52:54
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: Natural taste
On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 10:03:08 +0800, {nospam}@waawa.cx (Lara) wrote:

>"This transition from univore to omnivore is shaped by the infant's
>innate preference for sweet and salty tastes, by the rejection of sour
>and bitter tastes". I guess they never saw my kid chowing down on a
>pickled onion or begging for bread with balsamic vinegar as a "treat".

maddie loves pickles, and would eat lemons as we might eat an orange.
the first time we handed her a ripe tomato, she sniffed it and then
bit into it like she was eating an apple. tomatoes remain a favorite
(june planted a dozen tomato plants last spring); in fact, the first
year we took her trick-or-treating for halloween, she made it as far
as the next door neighbors where she was totally uninterested in the
candy but managed to devour most of a pint of cherry tomatoes that
they happened to have out on the table. she's as likely to ask for
celery or lettuce as a snack as anything else. she will eat green
beans until they are gone. her's. our's. your's. if you want green
beans for dinner, eat them first or you might forfeit your portion.
same goes for olives; black or green, no matter.

from a couple of weeks ago:

"mother, i need something to chew on."

"let's go to the kitchen and see what you want."

maddie, standing in front of the fridge: "open sesame!"

june, opening the fridge door: "what would you like?"

"mmmmmmmm.... <scanning the contents > i'd like eight olives,
please."


--barry "she eats all the things i never did"



        
Date: 30 Oct 2006 10:04:25
From: Brent
Subject: Re: Natural taste
My three year old only now refers to olives as "olives" used to confuse
visitors when she would demand "lollies" at the dinner table and we said OK.
She couldn't say olive, but could say lolly!

Unlike Maddie, she opens the fridge and helps hersefl to the olives... could
be worse!

Brent

>
> "mmmmmmmm.... <scanning the contents> i'd like eight olives,
> please."
>
>
> --barry "she eats all the things i never did"
>




        
Date: 29 Oct 2006 01:07:30
From: Lara
Subject: Re: Natural taste
Barry Jarrett <barry@rileys-coffee.com > wrote:

> maddie loves pickles, and would eat lemons as we might eat an orange.
> the first time we handed her a ripe tomato, she sniffed it and then
> bit into it like she was eating an apple.

Ah yes... Luke is one of those who will suck the lemon - wince - suck
the lemon - wince - suuuuck the lemon - grin & wince. And he adores
tomatoes, they're his staple vegetable. Along with avocado, mushrooms,
broad beans, kidney beans, pinto beans, corn on the cob, potato and just
the peas from inside sugar snap peas. (The soft pea pods get rejected if
they somehow find their way into his mouth, sometimes violently, and
accompanied by a sad look.)

Other favourites are Lindt 70% chocolate, blueberries, tart fresh
pineapple (the kind that makes your mouth feel like it's breaking out in
a rash), dark wholemeal seedy bread (nigella seeds, sesame, poppy,
linseed), freshly bbqed fresh killed roo meat, and olives - but only the
best Kalamata olives, nothing less. As an baby he was a particular fan
of smoked salmon and chicken liver pate to go with his avocado, but that
went out of the window much later when he discovered cabanossi. We're
working on a switch to chorizo...

He had a Hungry Jacks (Burger King) cheeseburger once. (Once.) Ate a few
chips, one bite of the burger, then looked a bit disappointed and
wandered off to play in the playground. His favourite "chunk food" is a
nice fresh batch of fried squid in herb batter from the local chippie.
And a pickled onion, of course.

Lara


        
Date: 28 Oct 2006 06:28:41
From:
Subject: Re: Natural taste
On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 12:52:54 GMT, Barry Jarrett
<barry@rileys-coffee.com > wrote:

>On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 10:03:08 +0800, {nospam}@waawa.cx (Lara) wrote:
>

>maddie loves pickles, and would eat lemons as we might eat an orange.
>the first time we handed her a ripe tomato, she sniffed it and then
>bit into it like she was eating an apple. tomatoes remain a favorite
>(june planted a dozen tomato plants last spring); in fact, the first
>year we took her trick-or-treating for halloween, she made it as far
>as the next door neighbors where she was totally uninterested in the
>candy but managed to devour most of a pint of cherry tomatoes that
>they happened to have out on the table. she's as likely to ask for
>celery or lettuce as a snack as anything else. she will eat green
>beans until they are gone. her's. our's. your's. if you want green
>beans for dinner, eat them first or you might forfeit your portion.
>same goes for olives; black or green, no matter.
>
>from a couple of weeks ago:
>
>"mother, i need something to chew on."
>
>"let's go to the kitchen and see what you want."
>
>maddie, standing in front of the fridge: "open sesame!"
>
>june, opening the fridge door: "what would you like?"
>
>"mmmmmmmm.... <scanning the contents> i'd like eight olives,
>please."
>
>
>--barry "she eats all the things i never did"

Adorable. Kids are wonderful. Thanks for sharing Barry. I especially
like "open sesame". Isn't that from Ali Baba and the 40 thieves of
ancient-time reading? Some things endure:).

aloha,
Cea
--smithfarms.com
farmers of pure kona
roast beans to kona to email


      
Date: 19 Oct 2006 21:46:53
From: Ken Wilson
Subject: Re: Natural taste
"Barry
> maddie took to coffee the moment she tried it (at 4 months), and i
> know of several other infants/toddlers who fancy it, too. mads drinks
> coffee & espresso w/o milk or sugar or any additives. she doesn't get
> a lot of it, but she certainly does NOT reject the taste

My youngest does as well - no sugar and no prompting. He also did the lemon
thing that David Lewis notes. Likes wine as well.

The eldest with, presumably the same external training factors, doesn't like
any of them.

For vegetables, gravy, unusual foods, we know that we have to put it on
their plate a few times and forceXXX encourage them to at least try it
befrore they will accept it

So perhaps the original lecturer meant that for MOST people coffee is an
aquired taste.




     
Date: 18 Oct 2006 09:15:18
From: Dan Bollinger
Subject: Re: Natural taste
> Dan, it's not a mysterious, magic, sudden 'finding' a taste. It's a process
> that takes place over time IF conditions are such that you keep trying the
> food or drink. Coffee is not a naturally good flavor.

If you say so, but my grandaughter would disagree.

>Although I have learned to like it, it took time. A long time.

Again, you are using an 'n=1' and then project that onto us millions. Now let's
see, we have two data points now, my grandaughter and Harry. One originally
liked coffed the other didn't. That's only an n=2, still poor science, but as
you can see, your hypothesis that the notion of acquired taste is unproven with
one for and one against.

Dan



    
Date: 17 Oct 2006 20:57:03
From: Harry Moos
Subject: Re: Natural taste
I am sure I have acquired a taste for many things that I originally found
offensive. Coffee is only one example. Scotch is another. My first
experience with scotch gave me the impression I was sucking on a copper
penny. But because of friends who drank it, I enjoy it now. My first taste
of pizza left me wondering why anyone would eat it. My college roommate's
mother baked a lemon pie that I thought he had left in the car too long; it
is one of my favorites now. That is not to say that one can acquire a taste
for everything. I like to go fishing and have many great memories of
fishing with friends, but I'm not about to eat one of them

"Dan Bollinger" <danNObollinger@insightSPAMbb.com > wrote in message
news:ErSdnTm3G4YO4KjYnZ2dnUVZ_qWdnZ2d@insightbb.com...
>>>Everyone once in awhile people talk about the so-called 'acquired' taste
>>>effect.
>>>Personally, I don't think it exists.




     
Date: 18 Oct 2006 03:11:57
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Natural taste
"Harry Moos" <harrym@ruraltel.net > wrote in
news:VaGdnaAYZaJxFKjYnZ2dnUVZ_vidnZ2d@news.ruraltel.net:

> I like to go fishing and have many great memories of
> fishing with friends, but I'm not about to eat one of them

Howdy Harry!
I grew up fishing the Texas Gulf Coast & still consider sushi eating bait.
I've been taken to sushi joints in Tokyo, L.A., S.F., N.Y., & even Cairo
(?), as a guest of clients & providers. To get what I wanted I ate the
stuff with gusto, but what I wanted to do was thread it on a hook & go
bottom fishing for gafftops. So no, not every taste can be acquired.

Robert (rather fish than eat cut bait) Harmon
--
http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
Remove "Z" to reply via email.


     
Date: 17 Oct 2006 22:24:04
From: Dan Bollinger
Subject: Re: Natural taste
>I am sure I have acquired a taste for many things that I originally found
>offensive. Coffee is only one example. Scotch is another. My first
>experience with scotch gave me the impression I was sucking on a copper penny.
>But because of friends who drank it, I enjoy it now. My first taste of pizza
>left me wondering why anyone would eat it. My college roommate's mother baked
>a lemon pie that I thought he had left in the car too long; it is one of my
>favorites now. That is not to say that one can acquire a taste for everything.
>I like to go fishing and have many great memories of fishing with friends, but
>I'm not about to eat one of them

Harry, with all due respect, those are anecdotes. For every acquired taste
example people say, I can find another person who 'immediately' liked the taste.
This in itself should prove that it does not exist. For if something is an
'acquired taste', then doesn't it stand to reason that ALL people must acquire
the taste and not 'have it' immediately?

What, exactly, is the acqusition process? Perhaps someone told you people 'can
acquire taste' and therefore you did, or appear to have. I will think it is
fiction, until I hear someone give me a rational or scientific reason for this
alleged phemonemon. Personally, I think you all have suckered in by some
journalist, keteer, or author.

Dan






      
Date: 18 Oct 2006 09:38:23
From: notbob
Subject: Re: Natural taste
On 2006-10-18, Dan Bollinger <danNObollinger@insightSPAMbb.com > wrote:

> Harry, with all due respect, those are anecdotes. For every acquired taste
> example people say, I can find another person who 'immediately' liked the taste.
> This in itself should prove that it does not exist. For if something is an
> 'acquired taste', then doesn't it stand to reason that ALL people must acquire
> the taste and not 'have it' immediately?

No, not at all. No two people are identical, so how do you figure
their tastes are? The premise is absurd on the face of it. I'm sure
there are many things I like the flavor of and you don't. What's that
got to do with acquired taste?

I guarantee coffee was an acquired taste for me and it was a damn long
time coming. I can name a dozen other foods I initially disliked but
with repeated exposure eventually came to enjoy. I can also name some
I've never liked and never will, no matter how often tried.

nb


       
Date: 18 Oct 2006 12:16:43
From: Dan Bollinger
Subject: Re: Natural taste
> I can also name some I've never liked and never will, no matter how often
> tried.

Uh, You just proved my point! LOL! The so-called 'acquisition of tastes'
hyposthesis says that through repeated exposure over time you WILL come to
'like' the flavor.

I'll say it again. People are buying into the notion that something called
'acquired taste' exists and then work feverishly to substantiate it using only
personal experience and anecdotes. I'm finding this thread oh, so entertaining.
Saying "Coffee is an acquired taste" is as humorous to me as if you said:

"Blue is an acquired color."

"Soft cushions are an acquired sense."

"Pine is an acquired scent."

"Fireworks are an acquired sight."

ROTFLAO!!!


Dan






        
Date: 19 Oct 2006 04:39:47
From: Donn Cave
Subject: Re: Natural taste
Quoth "Dan Bollinger" <danNObollinger@insightSPAMbb.com >:
...


        
Date: 18 Oct 2006 12:40:09
From: notbob
Subject: Re: Natural taste
On 2006-10-18, Dan Bollinger <danNObollinger@insightSPAMbb.com > wrote:

> "Blue is an acquired color."

Sure. Why not?

> "Soft cushions are an acquired sense."

It's all relative.

> "Pine is an acquired scent."

What if someone told you it was eucalyptus?

> "Fireworks are an acquired sight."

If you were once blind.

> ROTFLAO!!!

We think you're pretty funny, too.

So, your theory is we all love everything from birth and not liking
something at some point is just some bizarre affliction, like bad
karma or evil thetans or whatever, which may or may not be overcome.
Or, we are purposely suppressing our natural love for a flavor and
somehow we eventually may be set free from this sad delusion, by
submersion therapy or torture or whatever, to finally enjoy that which
we actually liked all along. Is that how it works? OK, let's say I
go along with this silliness. My questions is: so what? The outcome
is the same. You, me, anyone, didn't like something before, but we
like it now. Who gives a flying crap why or how or what it's called?
Or!!... is it your contention we're all not being truthful. We've all
really liked everything all along but are just saying we didn't simply
so we can argue with you? Is that it?

Boy, I'm convinced.

nb



         
Date: 18 Oct 2006 19:29:49
From: Dan Bollinger
Subject: Re: Natural taste
> We think you're pretty funny, too.

Uh, how would you know unless you are on alt.coffee.allbutdan ? ;)

> So, your theory is we all love everything from birth and not liking
> something at some point is just some bizarre affliction, like bad
> karma or evil thetans or whatever, which may or may not be overcome.

Ya see? You are still getting it wrong. I have no theory, nor hypothesis for
that matter. I'm calling people on presenting their pet hypothesis of 'acquire
taste' as factual.

> Or, we are purposely suppressing our natural love for a flavor and
> somehow we eventually may be set free from this sad delusion, by
> submersion therapy or torture or whatever, to finally enjoy that which
> we actually liked all along. Is that how it works?

You tell me, its YOUR hypothesis.

> OK, let's say I
> go along with this silliness.

LOL! From my perspective, you been going along with the 'acquired taste'
syndrome silliness for quite awhile.

> My questions is: so what? The outcome
> is the same. You, me, anyone, didn't like something before, but we
> like it now. Who gives a flying crap why or how or what it's called?

Hey! I didn't define a non-existant thing and then swear it exists!

> Or!!... is it your contention we're all not being truthful.

I hadn't thought of that. If I had, I'd have said so.

> We've all
> really liked everything all along but are just saying we didn't simply
> so we can argue with you? Is that it?

You tell me, you replied to my post.

> Boy, I'm convinced.

Somehow I suspect not.

Dan



          
Date: 19 Oct 2006 09:43:16
From: notbob
Subject: Re: Natural taste
On 2006-10-18, Dan Bollinger <danNObollinger@insightSPAMbb.com > wrote:

> that matter. I'm calling people on presenting their pet hypothesis of 'acquire
> taste' as factual.

You might consider calling up the local looney bin and asking if they
have an "acquired" bed.

nb


           
Date: 19 Oct 2006 14:34:15
From: Dan Bollinger
Subject: Re: Natural taste
> You might consider calling up the local looney bin and asking if they
> have an "acquired" bed.

Then I'd have to 'acquire' a taste for hospital food, right? ;)


            
Date: 19 Oct 2006 20:40:31
From: Natarajan Krishnaswami
Subject: Re: Natural taste
On 2006-10-19, Dan Bollinger <danNObollinger@insightSPAMbb.com > wrote:
>> You might consider calling up the local looney bin and asking if they
>> have an "acquired" bed.
>
> Then I'd have to 'acquire' a taste for hospital food, right? ;)

Dangerous -- they are not likely to have coffee worth drinking.
Though it might be a taste one could acquire....


N., ducking


       
Date: 18 Oct 2006 10:45:42
From: St. John Smythe
Subject: Re: Natural taste
notbob wrote:
> I guarantee coffee was an acquired taste for me and it was a damn long
> time coming.

Given the taste of what has passed for coffee in the U.S. in the past,
that's not surprising...;)

--
St. John
It is surely a great calamity for a human being to have no obsessions.
-Robert Bly


     
Date: 17 Oct 2006 21:17:41
From: jim schulman
Subject: Re: Natural taste
On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:57:03 -0500, "Harry Moos" <harrym@ruraltel.net >
wrote:

>That is not to say that one can acquire a taste
>for everything. I like to go fishing and have many great memories of
>fishing with friends, but I'm not about to eat one of them

I'm sure your fishing buddies are happy to hear that.


      
Date: 18 Oct 2006 00:09:29
From: Harry Moos
Subject: Re: Natural taste
A bad case of misplaced modifiers. Should have proofread more carefully.
The textbook example was "I shot an elephant dressed in my pajamas."
Thirty-seven years of teaching English down the drain. Oh, well!

"jim schulman" <jim_schulman@ameritech.net > wrote in message
news:pk3bj293dq51hs6nh8ohvuv6sm3atu8omb@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:57:03 -0500, "Harry Moos" <harrym@ruraltel.net>
> wrote:
>
>>That is not to say that one can acquire a taste
>>for everything. I like to go fishing and have many great memories of
>>fishing with friends, but I'm not about to eat one of them
>
> I'm sure your fishing buddies are happy to hear that.




       
Date: 18 Oct 2006 17:37:08
From: jim schulman
Subject: Re: Natural taste
On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 00:09:29 -0500, "Harry Moos" <harrym@ruraltel.net >
wrote:

>A bad case of misplaced modifiers. Should have proofread more carefully.
>The textbook example was "I shot an elephant dressed in my pajamas."
>Thirty-seven years of teaching English down the drain. Oh, well!

Save it for your example file; it's a lot funnier than the elephant's
pjs or old lady's piano legs.


      
Date: 18 Oct 2006 00:12:56
From: Harry Moos
Subject: Re: Natural taste
A bad case of misplaced modifiers. Should have proofread more carefully.
The textbook example was "I shot an elephant dressed in my pajamas."
Thirty-seven years of teaching English down the drain. Oh, well!

"jim schulman" <jim_schulman@ameritech.net > wrote in message
news:pk3bj293dq51hs6nh8ohvuv6sm3atu8omb@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:57:03 -0500, "Harry Moos" <harrym@ruraltel.net>
> wrote:
>
>>That is not to say that one can acquire a taste
>>for everything. I like to go fishing and have many great memories of
>>fishing with friends, but I'm not about to eat one of them
>
> I'm sure your fishing buddies are happy to hear that.




 
Date: 17 Oct 2006 16:16:35
From: ankalime
Subject: Re: Natural taste

Harry Moos wrote:
> So, just curious, does anyone have a dog that likes coffee?

I do! I cannot set a cappa or a cup of press pot coffee on the coffee
table and turn my back or my German Shepherd will have her nose in it.
If I catch her indulging and I'm not in arm's reach, she laps FASTER so
as to get as much as she can before I get close enough to shoo her
away. Her mate doesn't have any interest though.

I once had a Quaker parrot that loved Coke so much he would make the
sound of a soda can opening whenever my husband came out of the
kitchen. :)



  
Date: 28 Oct 2006 09:46:26
From: Lara
Subject: Re: Natural taste
ankalime <ankalime@yahoo.com > wrote:

> Harry Moos wrote:
> > So, just curious, does anyone have a dog that likes coffee?
>
> I do! I cannot set a cappa or a cup of press pot coffee on the coffee
> table and turn my back or my German Shepherd will have her nose in it.
> If I catch her indulging and I'm not in arm's reach, she laps FASTER so
> as to get as much as she can before I get close enough to shoo her
> away. Her mate doesn't have any interest though.

Snap. Years ago, I left the room for a moment and my German Shepherd
lapped up an entire cup. Took me a while to figure out where it had
gone.

Lara


 
Date: 17 Oct 2006 13:04:06
From: phreaddy
Subject: Re: Natural taste
When I was 17 I had a hamster that my friends got drunk by giving it
beer in an upside-down bottle cap ... I think it was Old Milwaukee,
Schlitz, or some such swill. Now there's an acquired taste!



 
Date: 17 Oct 2006 18:17:33
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Natural taste
"Harry Moos" <harrym@ruraltel.net > wrote in
news:JoCdnRGDYa1WjqjYnZ2dnUVZ_sOdnZ2d@news.ruraltel.net:

> I just found my notes from a conference I attended years ago on
> alcohol abuse. One speaker was talking about natural tastes versus
> acquired tastes. Sweet fruit juice was an example of a natural taste
> and coffee of an acquired taste. He said coffee is an unpleasant
> natural taste, but becomes pleasant when we associate it with parents
> [a little coffee in milk to be "grown up"], friends [coffee breaks],
> situations [coffee shop atmosphere], etc. Nothing new there. But he
> made the comment that if your dog won't touch it, it must be an
> acquired taste. While I haven't given my lab espresso, she seems to
> eat/drink anything I give her EXCEPT jalapeno peppers. So, just
> curious, does anyone have a dog that likes coffee?
>
>
>

No, but my ol' ball & chain has a slightly goofy cat (redundancy noted)
that pounces on any roasted beans hitting the floor. That is, except Eth.
Yirgacheffe which she tries to cover like pooties.

Robert (duck & cover) Harmon
--
http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
Remove "Z" to reply via email.


  
Date: 18 Oct 2006 09:21:49
From: notbob
Subject: Re: Natural taste
On 2006-10-17, Robert Harmon <r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com > wrote:

> that pounces on any roasted beans hitting the floor. That is, except Eth.
> Yirgacheffe which she tries to cover like pooties.

LOL!.... Thnx for my morning laugh. ;)


nb ....(who loves Yirg)


 
Date: 17 Oct 2006 11:15:10
From: Jim_F
Subject: Re: Natural taste
I don't recall any of my dogs liking coffee. A small taste of beer or
gin & tonic on the other hand...

My African Grey parrot likes coffee beans. My Senegal parrot loves to
sip from my coffee mug.

Harry Moos wrote:
So, just curious, does anyone have a dog that likes coffee?



  
Date: 17 Oct 2006 15:50:36
From: Craig Andrews
Subject: Re: Natural taste

"Jim_F" <rphjim@aol.com > wrote in message
news:1161108910.050648.138300@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>I don't recall any of my dogs liking coffee. A small taste of beer or
> gin & tonic on the other hand...
>
> My African Grey parrot likes coffee beans. My Senegal parrot loves to
> sip from my coffee mug.
>
> Harry Moos wrote:
> So, just curious, does anyone have a dog that likes coffee?
>

My Java Hill Mynah bird loves eating/sharing some of my everything
bagel, toast, etc., that has a drop of coffee mixed or dropped onto it!
{:-)
http://ca.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/coffeegeekcraiga/detail?.dir=3ba2&.dnm=72cb.jpg
Craig.



   
Date: 18 Oct 2006 10:38:20
From: Craig Andrews
Subject: Re: Natural taste

"Craig Andrews" <alt.coffee@deletethis.rogers.com > wrote in message
news:4pkqg8Fjc5s1U1@individual.net...
>
> "Jim_F" <rphjim@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:1161108910.050648.138300@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>>I don't recall any of my dogs liking coffee. A small taste of beer or
>> gin & tonic on the other hand...
>>
>> My African Grey parrot likes coffee beans. My Senegal parrot loves to
>> sip from my coffee mug.
>>
>> Harry Moos wrote:
>> So, just curious, does anyone have a dog that likes coffee?
>>
>
> My Java Hill Mynah bird loves eating/sharing some of my everything
> bagel, toast, etc., that has a drop of coffee mixed or dropped onto
> it! {:-)
> http://ca.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/coffeegeekcraiga/detail?.dir=3ba2&.dnm=72cb.jpg
> Craig.


What?, nobody checked out my beautiful bird?? <sniff, sniffle... > lol!
Craig.



    
Date: 18 Oct 2006 06:04:12
From:
Subject: Re: Natural taste
On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 10:38:20 -0400, "Craig Andrews"
<alt.coffee@deletethis.rogers.com > wrote:

>
>"Craig Andrews" <alt.coffee@deletethis.rogers.com> wrote in message
>news:4pkqg8Fjc5s1U1@individual.net...
>>
>> "Jim_F" <rphjim@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:1161108910.050648.138300@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>>>I don't recall any of my dogs liking coffee. A small taste of beer
or
>>> gin & tonic on the other hand...
>>>
>>> My African Grey parrot likes coffee beans. My Senegal parrot loves
to
>>> sip from my coffee mug.
>>>
>>> Harry Moos wrote:
>>> So, just curious, does anyone have a dog that likes coffee?
>>>
>>
>> My Java Hill Mynah bird loves eating/sharing some of my everything
>> bagel, toast, etc., that has a drop of coffee mixed or dropped onto
>> it! {:-)
>>
http://ca.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/coffeegeekcraiga/detail?.dir=3ba2&.dnm=72cb.jpg
>> Craig.
>
>
>What?, nobody checked out my beautiful bird?? <sniff, sniffle...>
lol!
>Craig.

Nice looking mynah Craig. I rescued a wild baby mynah years ago and
raised him for 7 years and it was lots of fun. When we moved up near
the rainforest, he got a bacteria that the vet couldn't fix, and we
lost him but he was a character. We've also had an African Grey I was
not fond of and found him a new home, but then Mazie our cockatiel
lived with us for 14 years. I still think I can hear her whistle at
times. No birds inside anymore, just a bunch of wild ones that Bob
feeds twice daily:).

To be on topic, while picking coffee last week, I saw 2 of our dogs
nibbling the fresh red cherry from my bucket. They love that sweet
taste and then Bob thought he could do Mollie or Sparkles luwak or
something:).

aloha,
Cea
--smithfarms.com
farmers of pure kona
roast beans to kona to email


     
Date: 18 Oct 2006 12:27:36
From: Craig Andrews
Subject: Re: Natural taste O.T.

<beans@smithfarms.com > wrote in message
news:6qjcj2dd0vm6to3414ngfvcceg68havbnn@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 10:38:20 -0400, "Craig Andrews"
> <alt.coffee@deletethis.rogers.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Craig Andrews" <alt.coffee@deletethis.rogers.com> wrote in message
>>news:4pkqg8Fjc5s1U1@individual.net...
>>>
>>> "Jim_F" <rphjim@aol.com> wrote in message
>>> news:1161108910.050648.138300@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>>>>I don't recall any of my dogs liking coffee. A small taste of beer
> or
>>>> gin & tonic on the other hand...
>>>>
>>>> My African Grey parrot likes coffee beans. My Senegal parrot loves
> to
>>>> sip from my coffee mug.
>>>>
>>>> Harry Moos wrote:
>>>> So, just curious, does anyone have a dog that likes coffee?
>>>>
>>>
>>> My Java Hill Mynah bird loves eating/sharing some of my everything
>>> bagel, toast, etc., that has a drop of coffee mixed or dropped onto
>>> it! {:-)
>>>
> http://ca.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/coffeegeekcraiga/detail?.dir=3ba2&.dnm=72cb.jpg
>>> Craig.
>>
>>
>>What?, nobody checked out my beautiful bird?? <sniff, sniffle...>
> lol!
>>Craig.
>
> Nice looking mynah Craig. I rescued a wild baby mynah years ago and
> raised him for 7 years and it was lots of fun. When we moved up near
> the rainforest, he got a bacteria that the vet couldn't fix, and we
> lost him but he was a character. We've also had an African Grey I was
> not fond of and found him a new home, but then Mazie our cockatiel
> lived with us for 14 years. I still think I can hear her whistle at
> times. No birds inside anymore, just a bunch of wild ones that Bob
> feeds twice daily:).
>
> To be on topic, while picking coffee last week, I saw 2 of our dogs
> nibbling the fresh red cherry from my bucket. They love that sweet
> taste and then Bob thought he could do Mollie or Sparkles luwak or
> something:).
>
> aloha,
> Cea
> --smithfarms.com
> farmers of pure kona
> roast beans to kona to email


O.T; As others have said Cea, it's good to hear you guys are all ok!, &
the critters too. {:-) Sorry to hear that about your rescued baby Mynah
Cea {:-( They REALLY are characters too with their own individual
personalities & mannerisms LOL!! I had my 1st Greater Indian Hill Mynah
(Joey1) from Jan 1986 - Jan 1991.

My current Joey2 was born May 11/03 & I bought him from a registered
breeder from Vancouver Island B.C., all certification papers & sexing
etc done. At the time he & his sister were the only 2 Java Hill Mynahs
in Canada. I had to wait till he was old enough (a day or two under 3
months old), before I had Joey Air freighted to me. I picked him up in
person at (YYZ) Toronto Internationl Airport too! {:-D

Like in my 1st post, he's actually having some of my lunchtime Poppyseed
bagel with me! {;-) Thank you so much for telling me about your birds,
I'd LOVE to see some pics of them if you have them., or can direct me to
a/some links or somesuch.

To get back on topic, I REALLY should order some more of your great
Kona!! {:-) {;-D
Cheers Cea & Bob!
All the best,
Craig.



      
Date: 18 Oct 2006 14:09:03
From:
Subject: Re: Natural taste O.T.
On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 12:27:36 -0400, "Craig Andrews"
<alt.coffee@deletethis.rogers.com > wrote:

>
><beans@smithfarms.com> wrote in message
>news:6qjcj2dd0vm6to3414ngfvcceg68havbnn@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 10:38:20 -0400, "Craig Andrews"
>> <alt.coffee@deletethis.rogers.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Craig Andrews" <alt.coffee@deletethis.rogers.com> wrote in message
>>>news:4pkqg8Fjc5s1U1@individual.net...
>>>>
>>>> "Jim_F" <rphjim@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:1161108910.050648.138300@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>I don't recall any of my dogs liking coffee. A small taste of
beer
>> or
>>>>> gin & tonic on the other hand...
>>>>>
>>>>> My African Grey parrot likes coffee beans. My Senegal parrot
loves
>> to
>>>>> sip from my coffee mug.
>>>>>
>>>>> Harry Moos wrote:
>>>>> So, just curious, does anyone have a dog that likes coffee?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> My Java Hill Mynah bird loves eating/sharing some of my
everything
>>>> bagel, toast, etc., that has a drop of coffee mixed or dropped
onto
>>>> it! {:-)
>>>>
>>
http://ca.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/coffeegeekcraiga/detail?.dir=3ba2&.dnm=72cb.jpg
>>>> Craig.
>>>
>>>
>>>What?, nobody checked out my beautiful bird?? <sniff, sniffle...>
>> lol!

>
>O.T; As others have said Cea, it's good to hear you guys are all ok!,
&
>the critters too. {:-) Sorry to hear that about your rescued baby
Mynah
>Cea {:-( They REALLY are characters too with their own individual
>personalities & mannerisms LOL!! I had my 1st Greater Indian Hill
Mynah
>(Joey1) from Jan 1986 - Jan 1991.
>
>My current Joey2 was born May 11/03 & I bought him from a registered
>breeder from Vancouver Island B.C., all certification papers & sexing
>etc done. At the time he & his sister were the only 2 Java Hill
Mynahs
>in Canada. I had to wait till he was old enough (a day or two under 3
>months old), before I had Joey Air freighted to me. I picked him up
in
>person at (YYZ) Toronto Internationl Airport too! {:-D
>
>Like in my 1st post, he's actually having some of my lunchtime
Poppyseed
>bagel with me! {;-) Thank you so much for telling me about your
birds,
>I'd LOVE to see some pics of them if you have them., or can direct me
to
>a/some links or somesuch.
>
>To get back on topic, I REALLY should order some more of your great
>Kona!! {:-) {;-D
>Cheers Cea & Bob!
>All the best,
>Craig.

Wow, thanks Craig. Alas, I have no bird photos. I had the birds
before my computer camera:(. Yes they were all characters. They are
an enormous amount of work though. My mynah bird bathed daily and made
such a mess but he was a sweetie. I've also raised a few wild
mongooses and they were really fun until they matured and decided to
go elsewhere. Now we have plenty of Jackson Chameleons that are wild
and watching them is always a thrill. No work either.

Take care.

aloha,
Cea
--smithfarms.com
farmers of pure kona
roast beans to kona to email


 
Date: 17 Oct 2006 13:43:26
From: St. John Smythe
Subject: Re: Natural taste
Harry Moos wrote:
> I just found my notes from a conference I attended years ago on alcohol
> abuse.
<snip >
> So, just curious, does anyone have a dog that likes coffee?

No, but some friends once had a dog that liked beer...

--
St. John
I'm a lucky guy, and I'm happy to be with the Yankees. And I want to
thank everyone for making this night necessary.
-Yogi Berra at a dinner in his honor