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Date: 04 Jul 2007 10:27:56
From: kramerica
Subject: New machine - help needed
So, I got my new Gaggia Evolution, and very soon testing began. 1/2
pound of beans and 30 minutes after opening, i've reached what I
believe is the right combination of coffee amount / grind thickness/
tamp pressure and i've reached ~2 ounces @ 24 sec using a double
basket.

The problem is in the way the coffee comes out: At the very beginning
it looks fine, but after very few seconds, the stream turns blond, and
in a way I can describe as wider but slower stream with waves.
The crema seems a bit pale also, and the taste also implies that
something isn't right, its a pretty dark roast and the coffee is way
too acidic and bitter.

The "Equipment": Gaggia Evolution
Nemox Lux grinder
~ 14 days old beans, the same mixture
I've used daily with my brikka





 
Date: 07 Jul 2007 00:08:37
From: mocha
Subject: Re: New machine - help needed

> Hey,
> I'm willing to do anything for great espresso (anything that doesn't
> require spending a lot of money - which was the main reason I bought
> the Gaggia).
> Could you post / link the tweaks you are talking about? I'm not very
> handy, but willing to try anything.

I can only say what I did first with a good result:

disassemble shower screen, distribution plate and brew valve on top
of it. Try to get a slightly softer spring for this valve or discard
the housing and let the spring be backed up directly by the
distribution plate at it's the lower end (spring will be relaxed,
careful mounting is required). Try again. The coffee will be fine now,
but in steam mode steam will leak from the shower. For steaming, set
in a blind filter (no more leak). Avoid hitting coffee button in steam
mode - no need for it anyway.

(BTW there is a optimal setting for this spring where the coffee is
still good and the steam problem is bearable. This setting is
difficult to find, therefore the blind portafilter in steaming)




 
Date: 06 Jul 2007 16:06:08
From: kramerica
Subject: Re: New machine - help needed
On Jul 6, 7:22 pm, mocha <acurs...@gmail.com > wrote:
> > The machine was on for about 30 minutes, and still same results
> > (Blondes fast and sour taste). I've also tried different stages of the
> > deadband all with the same results.
> > The puck stays in one piece, but its moist inside.
>
> > I've also tried finer grinds (~1 oz. @ 40 secs...) with the exact same
> > stream.
>
> I am sorry to say as the owner of a Gaggia Evolution: if you know how
> a real espresso tastes like, this machine will never satisfy you
> without heavy tweaks. It has the potential to brew great espresso but
> it's difficult to get it out. If you can't do the tweaks it's best to
> replace it with a Silvia or any other machine with solenoid and OPV.

Hey,
I'm willing to do anything for great espresso (anything that doesn't
require spending a lot of money - which was the main reason I bought
the Gaggia).
Could you post / link the tweaks you are talking about? I'm not very
handy, but willing to try anything.



  
Date: 07 Jul 2007 12:15:52
From: Mike Garner
Subject: Re: New machine - help needed
In article <1183763168.489466.316460@n60g2000hse.googlegroups.com >,
y.avramov@gmail.com says...

> > I am sorry to say as the owner of a Gaggia Evolution: if you know how
> > a real espresso tastes like, this machine will never satisfy you
> > without heavy tweaks. It has the potential to brew great espresso but
> > it's difficult to get it out. If you can't do the tweaks it's best to
> > replace it with a Silvia or any other machine with solenoid and OPV.
>
> Hey,
> I'm willing to do anything for great espresso (anything that doesn't
> require spending a lot of money - which was the main reason I bought
> the Gaggia).
> Could you post / link the tweaks you are talking about? I'm not very
> handy, but willing to try anything.
>
>

Please don't listen to "mocha"...He's a bit of a crackpot where Gaggia
machines are involved. He has some crazy ideas regarding the
capabilities of Gaggia machines...Go look him up on Google Groups for
some history.

MANY others have had no problems with their Gaggias...

Mike


 
Date: 06 Jul 2007 09:22:54
From: mocha
Subject: Re: New machine - help needed


>
> The machine was on for about 30 minutes, and still same results
> (Blondes fast and sour taste). I've also tried different stages of the
> deadband all with the same results.
> The puck stays in one piece, but its moist inside.
>
> I've also tried finer grinds (~1 oz. @ 40 secs...) with the exact same
> stream.

I am sorry to say as the owner of a Gaggia Evolution: if you know how
a real espresso tastes like, this machine will never satisfy you
without heavy tweaks. It has the potential to brew great espresso but
it's difficult to get it out. If you can't do the tweaks it's best to
replace it with a Silvia or any other machine with solenoid and OPV.





 
Date: 06 Jul 2007 00:58:46
From: kramerica
Subject: Re: New machine - help needed
On Jul 5, 11:25 pm, "Bertie Doe" <montebrasi...@ntl.com > wrote:
> "kramerica" <y.avra...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1183643531.631560.304850@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Jul 5, 3:37 pm, "Bertie Doe" <montebrasi...@ntl.com> wrote:
> >> kramerica wrote in message
> >> Ken Fox wrote in message
> >> >>Your problems are probably due to either
> >> >> channeling, bad or overly aged coffee, or both.
>
> >> >> ken
>
> >> > Thanks Ken.. I'll roast some tomorrow, and will try it the following
> >> > day.
>
> >> Ouch, that hurt :) What roast level do you prefer? For my taste buds, I
> >> prefer a higher brew temperature for most lighter roasts and a cooler
> >> brew
> >> temp for darker roasts.
>
> >> Another variable is; the time that the loaded p/f sits in the group -
> >> prior
> >> to pulling the shot. I assume you leave it in there for just a second or
> >> two?
>
> >> BD
>
> > Didn't understand the "Ouch that hurts" comment.... I didn't say
> > anything offensive and neither did he.
>
> Ah, I forgot to mention, that was my taste buds going 'ouch'. Day old coffee
> has plenty of 'froth' but I find it lacks a lot of depth in taste. My own
> preference is a window from day 3 after roast, thru to day 8.
>
> BD- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Ah, OK...

I also prefer the taste after 3-4 days... but I meant just for the
test to see if it'll go blond very soon again (you can say what you
want about 1 day old coffee, but you can't say its stale).



  
Date: 06 Jul 2007 11:06:59
From: Bertie Doe
Subject: Re: New machine - help needed

"kramerica" > wrote in message

> I also prefer the taste after 3-4 days... but I meant just for the
> test to see if it'll go blond very soon again (you can say what you
> want about 1 day old coffee, but you can't say its stale).
>

What roaster have you got? Does it do small batches? If yes, I would try one
really dark - say Lt Vienna, by way of experiment. Is sometimes gives a clue
as to brew temps.

BD




 
Date: 05 Jul 2007 06:52:11
From: kramerica
Subject: Re: New machine - help needed
On Jul 5, 3:37 pm, "Bertie Doe" <montebrasi...@ntl.com > wrote:
> kramerica wrote in message
> Ken Fox wrote in message
> >>Your problems are probably due to either
> >> channeling, bad or overly aged coffee, or both.
>
> >> ken
>
> > Thanks Ken.. I'll roast some tomorrow, and will try it the following
> > day.
>
> Ouch, that hurt :) What roast level do you prefer? For my taste buds, I
> prefer a higher brew temperature for most lighter roasts and a cooler brew
> temp for darker roasts.
>
> Another variable is; the time that the loaded p/f sits in the group - prior
> to pulling the shot. I assume you leave it in there for just a second or
> two?
>
> BD

Didn't understand the "Ouch that hurts" comment.... I didn't say
anything offensive and neither did he.

Anyway,
I usually roast what I can refer to as Full city -
I find to be exactly in the stage that the coffee isn't too acidic,
but still has its characteristics. That was true with the Brikka. Now
with the Gaggia its a whole new ball game and new roast stages to try.



  
Date: 05 Jul 2007 21:25:49
From: Bertie Doe
Subject: Re: New machine - help needed

"kramerica" <y.avramov@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1183643531.631560.304850@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 5, 3:37 pm, "Bertie Doe" <montebrasi...@ntl.com> wrote:
>> kramerica wrote in message
>> Ken Fox wrote in message
>> >>Your problems are probably due to either
>> >> channeling, bad or overly aged coffee, or both.
>>
>> >> ken
>>
>> > Thanks Ken.. I'll roast some tomorrow, and will try it the following
>> > day.
>>
>> Ouch, that hurt :) What roast level do you prefer? For my taste buds, I
>> prefer a higher brew temperature for most lighter roasts and a cooler
>> brew
>> temp for darker roasts.
>>
>> Another variable is; the time that the loaded p/f sits in the group -
>> prior
>> to pulling the shot. I assume you leave it in there for just a second or
>> two?
>>
>> BD
>
> Didn't understand the "Ouch that hurts" comment.... I didn't say
> anything offensive and neither did he.
>
Ah, I forgot to mention, that was my taste buds going 'ouch'. Day old coffee
has plenty of 'froth' but I find it lacks a lot of depth in taste. My own
preference is a window from day 3 after roast, thru to day 8.

BD




  
Date: 05 Jul 2007 16:58:39
From: Bertie Doe
Subject: Re: New machine - help needed

"kramerica" wrote in message
> I find to be exactly in the stage that the coffee isn't too acidic,
> but still has its characteristics. That was true with the Brikka. Now
> with the Gaggia its a whole new ball game and new roast stages to try.
>
I agree with Danny, it sounds like you may be running a bit cool, yet
earlier, you say that you have tried the whole deadband range.

The cheapo stats they use on these machines, can be it's achillies' heel.
Have you tested the temperature of brew water, several times into a styrene
cup?

I was running cool on my old Super Giada. While waiting for a new stat to
arrive, I did a roast to Light Vienna and found this helped.

BD




 
Date: 05 Jul 2007 06:33:54
From: Flasherly
Subject: Re: New machine - help needed
On Jul 4, 2:40 pm, Ken Blake <kbl...@this.is.an.invalid.domain > wrote:
> On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 19:20:43 +0100, Danny
>
>
>
> <d...@nospam.gaggia-espresso.com> wrote:
> > kramerica wrote:
> > > So, I got my new Gaggia Evolution, and very soon testing began. 1/2
> > > pound of beans and 30 minutes after opening, i've reached what I
> > > believe is the right combination of coffee amount / grind thickness/
> > > tamp pressure and i've reached ~2 ounces @ 24 sec using a double
> > > basket.
>
> > > The problem is in the way the coffee comes out: At the very beginning
> > > it looks fine, but after very few seconds, the stream turns blond, and
> > > in a way I can describe as wider but slower stream with waves.
> > > The crema seems a bit pale also, and the taste also implies that
> > > something isn't right, its a pretty dark roast and the coffee is way
> > > too acidic and bitter.
>
> > > The "Equipment": Gaggia Evolution
> > > Nemox Lux grinder
> > > ~ 14 days old beans, the same mixture
> > > I've used daily with my brikka
>
> > If the stream blondes within a few seconds, you have one or more of
> > the following:
>
> > Chanelling in the cake/puck - do the pucks stay in one piece when
> > knocked out? Are you tamping level? Not disturbing the pf as you
> > lock it in the group?
>
> > Too cool a machine - Are you thoroughly warming the machine up,
> > especially the grouphead and pf?
>
> This isn't in response to kramerica's question but to your last
> comment above, which says something I didn't know anything about
>
> I have a very cheap machine ($25-30 or so). I make the espresso by
> putting the coffee in the basket, pouring cold water into the top,
> then turning the machine on. It takes well over two minutes to make
> the coffee.
>
> Am I doing this wrong? Was I supposed to turn it on *before* adding
> the water? If so, for how long?
>
> --
> Ken Blake
> Please Reply to the Newsgroup

Steam machine. Steam at higher temperature than what espresso
machines *regulate* the extraction process - sooo, it's not espresso
in the Italian sense. It's burning the coffee, which can conceivably
be done with an espresso machine if not extracted properly at the
lower thermostat setting (using steam incorrectly, which is for
preparing milk). The other thing is surfing. With a less precise,
inexpensive espresso machines (not instrument/commercial grade), the
steam cycle can be manually "bumped" between the two temperatures to
approximate a more optimal temperature for extracting the coffee.

That said, I thought a Mr. Coffee steam machine a viable alternative
and tasted considerably better than drip coffee. Past excessive
sediment, it's a cute little gadget for $25. Also, what initially
developed an interest in coffee as an alternative to brewed. Strange
after years of drinking only brewed to change tastes. Strange, too,
how some people react to espresso, as if a cup of it were all that
different, altogether too strong to even consider other than for
something vaguely odd.



 
Date: 04 Jul 2007 14:09:45
From: Flasherly
Subject: Re: New machine - help needed
On Jul 4, 3:06 pm, kramerica <y.avra...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jul 4, 9:49 pm, "Ken Fox" <morceaudemerdeThisMerdeG...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "kramerica" <y.avra...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:1183573794.340023.233180@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > > The machine was on for about 30 minutes, and still same results
> > > (Blondes fast and sour taste). I've also tried different stages of the
> > > deadband all with the same results.
> > > The puck stays in one piece, but its moist inside.
>
> > > I've also tried finer grinds (~1 oz. @ 40 secs...) with the exact same
> > > stream.
>
> > 14 day old beans are a bit old. If it is 14 days after opening a bag of
> > roasted coffee of uncertain age, then the beans are even older.
>
> > There are not very many variables in espressomaking that will produce the
> > results you report; Danny has touched on basically all of them.
>
> > Try some fresher coffee, take care to dose consistently and to distribute
> > the coffee all over the portafilter without any gaps or holes. Tamp
> > consistently, which can be anywhere from a very slight almost weightless
> > tamp to a very high pressure tamp, but keep it consistent. Adjust your
> > grind to produce the first few drops of coffee at about 6 seconds if you are
> > using a bottomless PF, or at up to 10 seconds with a spouted (stock) PF.
> > The shot should not start blonding until you are at least 20-25 seconds
> > (somewhat longer is ok) into it, at which point you should cut the shot.
> > You are shooting for an absolute maximum of 1.5oz/3.0oz (45/90ml) over a
> > 22-35 second shot pull. Many prefer smaller volumes reduced by as much as
> > half or even a little more. Your problems are probably due to either
> > channeling, bad or overly aged coffee, or both.
>
> > ken
>
> Thanks Ken.. I'll roast some tomorrow, and will try it the following
> day.

Just made a cup from a Gaggia Carezza, drinking it now. FreshRoast
(c) SO beans, mostly African SO, a little Equatorial American. Darker
than light, city ranges. Day's supply of beans taken out from the
freezer, been in there a week, in rubber seal jar. Maxed out Capresso
Infinity grinder set to its finest grind. No grind container. Beans
ground directly into the PF. Light 3-point tamp. Few swirls at 10
o'clock, few at 6 o'clock, last at 3 o'clock with the lightest hint of
a polish. Six second delay evident before extracting is evident at
honeyed consistency, thinning at 15-20 seconds, blonding, mousetails
closer to 30-40. Um, um good. Cheers.



 
Date: 04 Jul 2007 12:06:40
From: kramerica
Subject: Re: New machine - help needed
On Jul 4, 9:49 pm, "Ken Fox" <morceaudemerdeThisMerdeG...@hotmail.com >
wrote:
> "kramerica" <y.avra...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1183573794.340023.233180@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > The machine was on for about 30 minutes, and still same results
> > (Blondes fast and sour taste). I've also tried different stages of the
> > deadband all with the same results.
> > The puck stays in one piece, but its moist inside.
>
> > I've also tried finer grinds (~1 oz. @ 40 secs...) with the exact same
> > stream.
>
> 14 day old beans are a bit old. If it is 14 days after opening a bag of
> roasted coffee of uncertain age, then the beans are even older.
>
> There are not very many variables in espressomaking that will produce the
> results you report; Danny has touched on basically all of them.
>
> Try some fresher coffee, take care to dose consistently and to distribute
> the coffee all over the portafilter without any gaps or holes. Tamp
> consistently, which can be anywhere from a very slight almost weightless
> tamp to a very high pressure tamp, but keep it consistent. Adjust your
> grind to produce the first few drops of coffee at about 6 seconds if you are
> using a bottomless PF, or at up to 10 seconds with a spouted (stock) PF.
> The shot should not start blonding until you are at least 20-25 seconds
> (somewhat longer is ok) into it, at which point you should cut the shot.
> You are shooting for an absolute maximum of 1.5oz/3.0oz (45/90ml) over a
> 22-35 second shot pull. Many prefer smaller volumes reduced by as much as
> half or even a little more. Your problems are probably due to either
> channeling, bad or overly aged coffee, or both.
>
> ken

Thanks Ken.. I'll roast some tomorrow, and will try it the following
day.



  
Date: 05 Jul 2007 13:37:03
From: Bertie Doe
Subject: Re: New machine - help needed

kramerica wrote in message
Ken Fox wrote in message

>>Your problems are probably due to either
>> channeling, bad or overly aged coffee, or both.
>>
>> ken
>
> Thanks Ken.. I'll roast some tomorrow, and will try it the following
> day.
>
Ouch, that hurt :) What roast level do you prefer? For my taste buds, I
prefer a higher brew temperature for most lighter roasts and a cooler brew
temp for darker roasts.

Another variable is; the time that the loaded p/f sits in the group - prior
to pulling the shot. I assume you leave it in there for just a second or
two?

BD




 
Date: 04 Jul 2007 11:47:23
From: kramerica
Subject: Re: New machine - help needed
On Jul 4, 9:41 pm, Danny <d...@nospam.gaggia-espresso.com > wrote:
> kramerica wrote:
> > Thanks Danny for the reply...
>
> > The machine was on for about 30 minutes, and still same results
> > (Blondes fast and sour taste). I've also tried different stages of the
> > deadband all with the same results.
> > The puck stays in one piece, but its moist inside.
>
> > I've also tried finer grinds (~1 oz. @ 40 secs...) with the exact same
> > stream.
>
> What grinder do you have?
>
> --
> Regards, Danny
>
> http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
> (apparently bad grammar but I like it that way...)

Nemox Lux (Same burrs as Ascaso/Innova I2, Iberital etc..)



 
Date: 04 Jul 2007 11:29:54
From: kramerica
Subject: Re: New machine - help needed
On Jul 4, 9:20 pm, Danny <d...@nospam.gaggia-espresso.com > wrote:
> kramerica wrote:
> > So, I got my new Gaggia Evolution, and very soon testing began. 1/2
> > pound of beans and 30 minutes after opening, i've reached what I
> > believe is the right combination of coffee amount / grind thickness/
> > tamp pressure and i've reached ~2 ounces @ 24 sec using a double
> > basket.
>
> > The problem is in the way the coffee comes out: At the very beginning
> > it looks fine, but after very few seconds, the stream turns blond, and
> > in a way I can describe as wider but slower stream with waves.
> > The crema seems a bit pale also, and the taste also implies that
> > something isn't right, its a pretty dark roast and the coffee is way
> > too acidic and bitter.
>
> > The "Equipment": Gaggia Evolution
> > Nemox Lux grinder
> > ~ 14 days old beans, the same mixture
> > I've used daily with my brikka
>
> If the stream blondes within a few seconds, you have one or more of
> the following:
>
> Chanelling in the cake/puck - do the pucks stay in one piece when
> knocked out? Are you tamping level? Not disturbing the pf as you
> lock it in the group?
>
> Too cool a machine - Are you thoroughly warming the machine up,
> especially the grouphead and pf?
>
> Grind is still too coarse.
>
> That's all I can think of at present :)
>
> --
> Regards, Danny
>
> http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
> (apparently bad grammar but I like it that way...)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thanks Danny for the reply...

The machine was on for about 30 minutes, and still same results
(Blondes fast and sour taste). I've also tried different stages of the
deadband all with the same results.
The puck stays in one piece, but its moist inside.

I've also tried finer grinds (~1 oz. @ 40 secs...) with the exact same
stream.



  
Date: 04 Jul 2007 12:49:28
From: Ken Fox
Subject: Re: New machine - help needed
"kramerica" <y.avramov@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1183573794.340023.233180@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> > The machine was on for about 30 minutes, and still same results
> (Blondes fast and sour taste). I've also tried different stages of the
> deadband all with the same results.
> The puck stays in one piece, but its moist inside.
>
> I've also tried finer grinds (~1 oz. @ 40 secs...) with the exact same
> stream.
>

14 day old beans are a bit old. If it is 14 days after opening a bag of
roasted coffee of uncertain age, then the beans are even older.

There are not very many variables in espressomaking that will produce the
results you report; Danny has touched on basically all of them.

Try some fresher coffee, take care to dose consistently and to distribute
the coffee all over the portafilter without any gaps or holes. Tamp
consistently, which can be anywhere from a very slight almost weightless
tamp to a very high pressure tamp, but keep it consistent. Adjust your
grind to produce the first few drops of coffee at about 6 seconds if you are
using a bottomless PF, or at up to 10 seconds with a spouted (stock) PF.
The shot should not start blonding until you are at least 20-25 seconds
(somewhat longer is ok) into it, at which point you should cut the shot.
You are shooting for an absolute maximum of 1.5oz/3.0oz (45/90ml) over a
22-35 second shot pull. Many prefer smaller volumes reduced by as much as
half or even a little more. Your problems are probably due to either
channeling, bad or overly aged coffee, or both.

ken




  
Date: 04 Jul 2007 19:41:43
From: Danny
Subject: Re: New machine - help needed
kramerica wrote:

> Thanks Danny for the reply...
>
> The machine was on for about 30 minutes, and still same results
> (Blondes fast and sour taste). I've also tried different stages of the
> deadband all with the same results.
> The puck stays in one piece, but its moist inside.
>
> I've also tried finer grinds (~1 oz. @ 40 secs...) with the exact same
> stream.
>

What grinder do you have?

--
Regards, Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
(apparently bad grammar but I like it that way...)



 
Date: 04 Jul 2007 19:20:43
From: Danny
Subject: Re: New machine - help needed
kramerica wrote:
> So, I got my new Gaggia Evolution, and very soon testing began. 1/2
> pound of beans and 30 minutes after opening, i've reached what I
> believe is the right combination of coffee amount / grind thickness/
> tamp pressure and i've reached ~2 ounces @ 24 sec using a double
> basket.
>
> The problem is in the way the coffee comes out: At the very beginning
> it looks fine, but after very few seconds, the stream turns blond, and
> in a way I can describe as wider but slower stream with waves.
> The crema seems a bit pale also, and the taste also implies that
> something isn't right, its a pretty dark roast and the coffee is way
> too acidic and bitter.
>
> The "Equipment": Gaggia Evolution
> Nemox Lux grinder
> ~ 14 days old beans, the same mixture
> I've used daily with my brikka
>

If the stream blondes within a few seconds, you have one or more of
the following:

Chanelling in the cake/puck - do the pucks stay in one piece when
knocked out? Are you tamping level? Not disturbing the pf as you
lock it in the group?

Too cool a machine - Are you thoroughly warming the machine up,
especially the grouphead and pf?

Grind is still too coarse.

That's all I can think of at present :)

--
Regards, Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
(apparently bad grammar but I like it that way...)



  
Date: 04 Jul 2007 11:40:49
From: Ken Blake
Subject: Re: New machine - help needed
On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 19:20:43 +0100, Danny
<danny@nospam.gaggia-espresso.com > wrote:

> kramerica wrote:
> > So, I got my new Gaggia Evolution, and very soon testing began. 1/2
> > pound of beans and 30 minutes after opening, i've reached what I
> > believe is the right combination of coffee amount / grind thickness/
> > tamp pressure and i've reached ~2 ounces @ 24 sec using a double
> > basket.
> >
> > The problem is in the way the coffee comes out: At the very beginning
> > it looks fine, but after very few seconds, the stream turns blond, and
> > in a way I can describe as wider but slower stream with waves.
> > The crema seems a bit pale also, and the taste also implies that
> > something isn't right, its a pretty dark roast and the coffee is way
> > too acidic and bitter.
> >
> > The "Equipment": Gaggia Evolution
> > Nemox Lux grinder
> > ~ 14 days old beans, the same mixture
> > I've used daily with my brikka
> >
>
> If the stream blondes within a few seconds, you have one or more of
> the following:
>
> Chanelling in the cake/puck - do the pucks stay in one piece when
> knocked out? Are you tamping level? Not disturbing the pf as you
> lock it in the group?
>
> Too cool a machine - Are you thoroughly warming the machine up,
> especially the grouphead and pf?


This isn't in response to kramerica's question but to your last
comment above, which says something I didn't know anything about

I have a very cheap machine ($25-30 or so). I make the espresso by
putting the coffee in the basket, pouring cold water into the top,
then turning the machine on. It takes well over two minutes to make
the coffee.

Am I doing this wrong? Was I supposed to turn it on *before* adding
the water? If so, for how long?

--
Ken Blake
Please Reply to the Newsgroup


   
Date: 04 Jul 2007 20:13:36
From: Danny
Subject: Re: New machine - help needed
Ken Blake wrote:

> This isn't in response to kramerica's question but to your last
> comment above, which says something I didn't know anything about
>
> I have a very cheap machine ($25-30 or so). I make the espresso by
> putting the coffee in the basket, pouring cold water into the top,
> then turning the machine on. It takes well over two minutes to make
> the coffee.
>
> Am I doing this wrong? Was I supposed to turn it on *before* adding
> the water? If so, for how long?
>

If you have what is commonly referred round these parts as a steam
machine (assuming it is actually called an espresso machine, and not a
percolator or moka pot), and it has no brew switch (meaning that as
soon as the water boils it starts to exit the group) then you don't
have much choice. You really need a pump machine, since your machine
brews with water that is too hot, and at too low pressure for true
espresso.

--
Regards, Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
(apparently bad grammar but I like it that way...)



    
Date: 04 Jul 2007 12:37:56
From: Ken Blake
Subject: Re: New machine - help needed
On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 20:13:36 +0100, Danny
<danny@nospam.gaggia-espresso.com > wrote:

> Ken Blake wrote:
>
> > This isn't in response to kramerica's question but to your last
> > comment above, which says something I didn't know anything about
> >
> > I have a very cheap machine ($25-30 or so). I make the espresso by
> > putting the coffee in the basket, pouring cold water into the top,
> > then turning the machine on. It takes well over two minutes to make
> > the coffee.
> >
> > Am I doing this wrong? Was I supposed to turn it on *before* adding
> > the water? If so, for how long?
> >
>
> If you have what is commonly referred round these parts as a steam
> machine (assuming it is actually called an espresso machine,


Yes.


> and not a
> percolator or moka pot),


No.


> and it has no brew switch


No brew switch.


> (meaning that as
> soon as the water boils it starts to exit the group)


Right.


> then you don't
> have much choice.


OK, thanks for the clarification.



> You really need a pump machine, since your machine
> brews with water that is too hot, and at too low pressure for true
> espresso.


OK, one of these days, I'll spring for a better machine. I still have
to convince my wife it's worth it.

Thanks again.

--
Ken Blake
Please Reply to the Newsgroup