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Date: 11 Dec 2006 18:37:15
From:
Subject: Newbie roaster - basic question
Got my Fresh Roast +8 (seemed like a good place to start), SM Monkey.
First roast (7 min+2min cooldown followed by stainles steel colander to
cool bean as quickly as possible)looked oily and dark, went a 30 sec
less on 2d try. Waited 48hrs (in loosely capped Ball jar)
First batch had slightly charcoal taste (gee, kinda like Starbucks), 2d
batch was actually not bad.
(Using Silvia and Rocky, btw)
Anyway, next roast was at 6min+2min cooldown, etc. 48hr wait.
Undrinkable, nasty swill (both batches)
Just to make sure it wasn't Silvia, I brewed a shot of the roast that
John Hornall had done a few days ago. Very, very nice.
Could the 30 sec reduction make this coffee taste THAT bad (really,
really bad..sour, taste lingered for an hour)

Silvia is PID. My dose and tamp are pretty consistent, as is shot
timing.

Any suggestions??

Stan





 
Date: 12 Dec 2006 00:08:04
From: Flasherly
Subject: Re: Newbie roaster - basic question

stan.shire@gmail.com wrote:

> Thanks for all the suggestions
> My roasting is done in the garage.(64gm green) The ambient was a bit
> cool (40F) so I pre-heated for 1 minute and have put the FR in the
> empty Silvia box. Getting first crack at about 4min. I have been
> watching the beans with a flashlight but am relying more on the crack
> for timing.
> I've also read some thoughts about using the FR cooling cycle vs
> getting the beans into the colander as soon as the roast is done. It
> seems that this would allow a much quicker cooldown but not sure if the
> slower cooldown is more desireable or is this a phase of the moon
> thing?
> Stan

The cooldown is still carrying the weight of the element's heat. More
like an appreciable heatdown. Better to stop and dump the beans flat
to cool, since I'm "eyeing" for results rather than time them into an
equation. Flashlite, first crack then timed thereafter sounds rough.
Rigging up a 1000w halogen or something can't hurt. I meant as far as
the manufacturer's recommended cool down (minimum 20 min.) prior to
firing up another batch. I think the inference there is not to overdo
what they've "engineered" inside the FR+8 -- as excessive use and
leading to premature failure. Running the white "cool down" setting in
succession is just an added precaution, possibly (feel lucky?) without
repercussion if pushing useage under 20min. and cycling more often than
stated in the instruction manual. Four minutes sounds right on the
first crack. I've run as far as +/- 12min roasts without noticeable
depreciation, although that last "toaster job" was a double roast, one
after the other with sufficient cool down. Not sure why the heat tempo
picked up so drastically. Lightly beyond and just into city roast, I
suppose. We've both also owned these things not long. Mine's
relatively new, a couple weeks. Generally going by sight, what's it
looking like compared to preroasts I bought (I suspect for an
approximation thereof). Like the manaul says - keep an open eye - mine
had no problem whatsoever, fired itself right on up, lickedy-split, and
filled the house with smoke. Tasted the same sumatra mandheling beans
i carefully roasted earlier today. Flavorfully unburnt, still. . .may
be a robusta and different characteristically than arabica. Needs
maybe a tad more into city for tastes within a lack redish residuals
extracted. I've beans with pronounced redish brown extraction with the
roaster, just can't recall which. A dozen greenbags from different
origins with an unnoted novice to examine them.



 
Date: 11 Dec 2006 21:31:23
From:
Subject: Re: Newbie roaster - basic question

Flasherly wrote:
> Oily, dark, caramelized, second-cracked, frenched roasted, and petitely
> charcoaled briquettes, should be well within the makings of drawing
> media for a binding agent when shading to sepia and white chalk
> foregrounds. Mine occured on a second roast, evidently from the
> innards preheated into over-efficient territory. I drank it all, duly
> in course, except for a few more cups, which I don't actually mind if I
> shortly toss. Blended with a lighter roast, I find dark most of all
> predominates. Besides, made a couple fresh roast batches this morning,
> loosely capped in jamjars, that are about ready now. Suppose that's
> why it's made with a pyrex(c) tube -- better to watch what's going on
> with the beans -- I sure watched the bean skin textures and color this
> morning. No point to doing that again. Timer's fine, but not a
> substitute to listening and watching. Also, see the modification and
> useage FAQs for the roaster at Sweetias. They do appear to like the
> machine within its limitations. I run mine more on the top-heavy side,
> loaded apart from the FAQ, but I also watch. I also use two colanders,
> a second small-mesh screen sifter angled ontop of the machine when
> roasting to deflect minute bits of escaping chaff into the sink, and a
> larger aluminum one for depositing hot roasted beans. Breakdown
> quickly and run the base unit singularly on cool a couple more cycles
> to minimize the endothermic residual retention rampdown. There's an
> illustrated manual, onsite, for adjusting the fan speed by tapping a
> base resistor. I don't see the need at present. Nor am I not sure how
> sour tastes (a little taste of the "green" may not be as imposing to
> me), although have noted with interesting expectation Starbucks'
> complexity.
>
> stan.shire@gmail.com wrote:
> > Got my Fresh Roast +8 (seemed like a good place to start), SM Monkey.
> > First roast (7 min+2min cooldown followed by stainles steel colander to
> > cool bean as quickly as possible)looked oily and dark, went a 30 sec
> > less on 2d try. Waited 48hrs (in loosely capped Ball jar)
> > First batch had slightly charcoal taste (gee, kinda like Starbucks), 2d
> > batch was actually not bad.
> > (Using Silvia and Rocky, btw)
> > Anyway, next roast was at 6min+2min cooldown, etc. 48hr wait.
> > Undrinkable, nasty swill (both batches)
> > Just to make sure it wasn't Silvia, I brewed a shot of the roast that
> > John Hornall had done a few days ago. Very, very nice.
> > Could the 30 sec reduction make this coffee taste THAT bad (really,
> > really bad..sour, taste lingered for an hour)
> >
> > Silvia is PID. My dose and tamp are pretty consistent, as is shot
> > timing.
> >
> > Any suggestions??
> >
> > Stan
Thanks for all the suggestions
My roasting is done in the garage.(64gm green) The ambient was a bit
cool (40F) so I pre-heated for 1 minute and have put the FR in the
empty Silvia box. Getting first crack at about 4min. I have been
watching the beans with a flashlight but am relying more on the crack
for timing.
I've also read some thoughts about using the FR cooling cycle vs
getting the beans into the colander as soon as the roast is done. It
seems that this would allow a much quicker cooldown but not sure if the
slower cooldown is more desireable or is this a phase of the moon
thing?
Stan



  
Date: 12 Dec 2006 00:11:21
From: Lloyd Parsons
Subject: Re: Newbie roaster - basic question
In article <1165901483.720699.86770@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com >,
stan.shire@gmail.com wrote:

> Flasherly wrote:
> > Oily, dark, caramelized, second-cracked, frenched roasted, and petitely
> > charcoaled briquettes, should be well within the makings of drawing
> > media for a binding agent when shading to sepia and white chalk
> > foregrounds. Mine occured on a second roast, evidently from the
> > innards preheated into over-efficient territory. I drank it all, duly
> > in course, except for a few more cups, which I don't actually mind if I
> > shortly toss. Blended with a lighter roast, I find dark most of all
> > predominates. Besides, made a couple fresh roast batches this morning,
> > loosely capped in jamjars, that are about ready now. Suppose that's
> > why it's made with a pyrex(c) tube -- better to watch what's going on
> > with the beans -- I sure watched the bean skin textures and color this
> > morning. No point to doing that again. Timer's fine, but not a
> > substitute to listening and watching. Also, see the modification and
> > useage FAQs for the roaster at Sweetias. They do appear to like the
> > machine within its limitations. I run mine more on the top-heavy side,
> > loaded apart from the FAQ, but I also watch. I also use two colanders,
> > a second small-mesh screen sifter angled ontop of the machine when
> > roasting to deflect minute bits of escaping chaff into the sink, and a
> > larger aluminum one for depositing hot roasted beans. Breakdown
> > quickly and run the base unit singularly on cool a couple more cycles
> > to minimize the endothermic residual retention rampdown. There's an
> > illustrated manual, onsite, for adjusting the fan speed by tapping a
> > base resistor. I don't see the need at present. Nor am I not sure how
> > sour tastes (a little taste of the "green" may not be as imposing to
> > me), although have noted with interesting expectation Starbucks'
> > complexity.
> >
> > stan.shire@gmail.com wrote:
> > > Got my Fresh Roast +8 (seemed like a good place to start), SM Monkey.
> > > First roast (7 min+2min cooldown followed by stainles steel colander to
> > > cool bean as quickly as possible)looked oily and dark, went a 30 sec
> > > less on 2d try. Waited 48hrs (in loosely capped Ball jar)
> > > First batch had slightly charcoal taste (gee, kinda like Starbucks), 2d
> > > batch was actually not bad.
> > > (Using Silvia and Rocky, btw)
> > > Anyway, next roast was at 6min+2min cooldown, etc. 48hr wait.
> > > Undrinkable, nasty swill (both batches)
> > > Just to make sure it wasn't Silvia, I brewed a shot of the roast that
> > > John Hornall had done a few days ago. Very, very nice.
> > > Could the 30 sec reduction make this coffee taste THAT bad (really,
> > > really bad..sour, taste lingered for an hour)
> > >
> > > Silvia is PID. My dose and tamp are pretty consistent, as is shot
> > > timing.
> > >
> > > Any suggestions??
> > >
> > > Stan
> Thanks for all the suggestions
> My roasting is done in the garage.(64gm green) The ambient was a bit
> cool (40F) so I pre-heated for 1 minute and have put the FR in the
> empty Silvia box. Getting first crack at about 4min. I have been
> watching the beans with a flashlight but am relying more on the crack
> for timing.
> I've also read some thoughts about using the FR cooling cycle vs
> getting the beans into the colander as soon as the roast is done. It
> seems that this would allow a much quicker cooldown but not sure if the
> slower cooldown is more desireable or is this a phase of the moon
> thing?
> Stan

I think Tom at Sweetias made a comment that stopping and rapidly
cooling was better. I don't do that, but the little FR is so quick once
you hit 1st crack that it makes paying attention so important.

I noticed the last time I took something into 2nd crack, I pushed the
timer over to cool, but I heard 2nd crack sounds for at least a minute
into the cooling cycle.


 
Date: 11 Dec 2006 20:24:47
From: Flasherly
Subject: Re: Newbie roaster - basic question
Oily, dark, caramelized, second-cracked, frenched roasted, and petitely
charcoaled briquettes, should be well within the makings of drawing
media for a binding agent when shading to sepia and white chalk
foregrounds. Mine occured on a second roast, evidently from the
innards preheated into over-efficient territory. I drank it all, duly
in course, except for a few more cups, which I don't actually mind if I
shortly toss. Blended with a lighter roast, I find dark most of all
predominates. Besides, made a couple fresh roast batches this morning,
loosely capped in jamjars, that are about ready now. Suppose that's
why it's made with a pyrex(c) tube -- better to watch what's going on
with the beans -- I sure watched the bean skin textures and color this
morning. No point to doing that again. Timer's fine, but not a
substitute to listening and watching. Also, see the modification and
useage FAQs for the roaster at Sweetias. They do appear to like the
machine within its limitations. I run mine more on the top-heavy side,
loaded apart from the FAQ, but I also watch. I also use two colanders,
a second small-mesh screen sifter angled ontop of the machine when
roasting to deflect minute bits of escaping chaff into the sink, and a
larger aluminum one for depositing hot roasted beans. Breakdown
quickly and run the base unit singularly on cool a couple more cycles
to minimize the endothermic residual retention rampdown. There's an
illustrated manual, onsite, for adjusting the fan speed by tapping a
base resistor. I don't see the need at present. Nor am I not sure how
sour tastes (a little taste of the "green" may not be as imposing to
me), although have noted with interesting expectation Starbucks'
complexity.

stan.shire@gmail.com wrote:
> Got my Fresh Roast +8 (seemed like a good place to start), SM Monkey.
> First roast (7 min+2min cooldown followed by stainles steel colander to
> cool bean as quickly as possible)looked oily and dark, went a 30 sec
> less on 2d try. Waited 48hrs (in loosely capped Ball jar)
> First batch had slightly charcoal taste (gee, kinda like Starbucks), 2d
> batch was actually not bad.
> (Using Silvia and Rocky, btw)
> Anyway, next roast was at 6min+2min cooldown, etc. 48hr wait.
> Undrinkable, nasty swill (both batches)
> Just to make sure it wasn't Silvia, I brewed a shot of the roast that
> John Hornall had done a few days ago. Very, very nice.
> Could the 30 sec reduction make this coffee taste THAT bad (really,
> really bad..sour, taste lingered for an hour)
>
> Silvia is PID. My dose and tamp are pretty consistent, as is shot
> timing.
>
> Any suggestions??
>
> Stan



 
Date: 11 Dec 2006 21:32:33
From: jim schulman
Subject: Re: Newbie roaster - basic question
On 11 Dec 2006 18:37:15 -0800, stan.shire@gmail.com wrote:

>Could the 30 sec reduction make this coffee taste THAT bad (really,
>really bad..sour, taste lingered for an hour)

Yes, in an uncontrolled airroaster. You have several options, from
best to worst:
1. Hack it and separate the heat from the fan, add a dimmer, variac or
PID controler to the heat
2. Reduce your dose, carefully, so you get 8 to 10 minute roasts to
the first pops of the second crack. This, of course, means you roast
less in more time, very inefficient; but it's the simplest path to a
technically good roast.
3. turn off the roaster completely for 30 seconds as you go into and
again when you exit the 1st crack; alternatively, give it cooling
shots for 10 seconds. This slows down the roast, but flattens the
taste.


  
Date: 12 Dec 2006 05:47:40
From: I->Ian
Subject: Re: Newbie roaster - basic question
On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 21:32:33 -0600, jim schulman
<jim_schulman@ameritech.net > wrote:

>1. Hack it and separate the heat from the fan, add a dimmer, variac or
>PID controler to the heat

Also add a DC supply for the motor. I use a 13.8VDC so no heat is
generated by the motor dropping resistor. This gives more air flow and
bean agitation when the beans are heavy and an almost perfect cooling
to <100F in < 4min

I use a variac for the element and increase the voltage from 90 to
~110 @ 2.5V / min for one of my 'standard' profiles.



  
Date: 11 Dec 2006 22:11:38
From: notbob
Subject: Re: Newbie roaster - basic question
On 2006-12-12, jim schulman <jim_schulman@ameritech.net > wrote:

> 1. Hack it and separate the heat from the fan, add a dimmer, variac or
> PID controler to the heat
> 2. Reduce your dose, carefully, so you get 8 to 10 minute roasts to
> the first pops of the second crack. This, of course, means you roast
> less in more time, very inefficient; but it's the simplest path to a
> technically good roast.
> 3. turn off the roaster completely for 30 seconds as you go into and
> again when you exit the 1st crack; alternatively, give it cooling
> shots for 10 seconds. This slows down the roast, but flattens the
> taste.

Or, take your roaster out to the garage or shed or even outdoors to
reduce the ambient temperature. The cooler the ambient temp, the
longer the roast. Don't go outside in a blizzard. You'll never make
1st crack. ;)

nb


   
Date: 11 Dec 2006 22:19:57
From: jim schulman
Subject: Re: Newbie roaster - basic question
On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 22:11:38 -0600, notbob <notbob@nothome.com > wrote:

>Or, take your roaster out to the garage or shed or even outdoors to
>reduce the ambient temperature. The cooler the ambient temp, the
>longer the roast. Don't go outside in a blizzard. You'll never make
>1st crack. ;)

He could also carve a hole in a cooler, stick the bottom half of the
roaster in it, fill it with ice, and add a few airholes. That would
save him the flu. Might even be patentable: "regulatiion of coffee
roast profiles by air intake cooling"


 
Date: 12 Dec 2006 02:47:42
From: I->Ian
Subject: Re: Newbie roaster - basic question
On 11 Dec 2006 18:37:15 -0800, stan.shire@gmail.com wrote:

>Got my Fresh Roast +8 (seemed like a good place to start), SM Monkey.
>First roast (7 min+2min cooldown followed by stainles steel colander to
>cool bean as quickly as possible)looked oily and dark, went a 30 sec
>less on 2d try. Waited 48hrs (in loosely capped Ball jar)
>First batch had slightly charcoal taste (gee, kinda like Starbucks), 2d
>batch was actually not bad.
>(Using Silvia and Rocky, btw)
>Anyway, next roast was at 6min+2min cooldown, etc. 48hr wait.
>Undrinkable, nasty swill (both batches)
>Just to make sure it wasn't Silvia, I brewed a shot of the roast that
>John Hornall had done a few days ago. Very, very nice.
>Could the 30 sec reduction make this coffee taste THAT bad (really,
>really bad..sour, taste lingered for an hour)
>
>Silvia is PID. My dose and tamp are pretty consistent, as is shot
>timing.
>
>Any suggestions??
>

>Stan

In an FR, things happen quickly. It takes a few roasts to get the hang
of the thing. Be sure to use a scale and DON'T over fill it. I use
65gr in my original FR

If you want to try to slow down the roast after first crack, jog the
timer knob to cool for 1 second in every 10.