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Date: 03 Feb 2007 09:24:19
From: vMike
Subject: PID problem solved
I PID my LM a couple years ago. I fitted the PID in between the brew switch
and the indicator light. I was kind of proud of myself until I read that it
was a bad idea and the PID should be outside the machine away from the
ambient heat inside the machine. Well it was a little too late for that.
Recently, the temperature on the PID was getting erratic and finally got so
erratic it was useless. I feared the worse, but with a bit of fiddling I
suspected the thermocouple was bad. I determined this by disconnecting the
line to the boiler by pulling the wire on the overload switch on the group
head when the boiler was at room temp. I then moved and pulled on the
thermocouple wire and bingo the temp on the PID started changing and as soon
as I let go of the wire, the PID would stabilize again (at the wrong
temperature) but it did stabilize. Repeat .. same outcome. So I bought a
new thermocouple and bingo problem solved.

I am sure the PID will eventually fail from the heat but I am on 2 years and
still going strong.

Just thought I would pass it on to others that might have a similar
experience.

Mike






 
Date: 03 Feb 2007 11:42:11
From: daveb
Subject: Re: PID problem solved



On Feb 3, 12:44 pm, "vMike"
<MicZhaYel.GeoZr...@noYandZ.geZwaYrrenZ.com > wrote:
> > Well I stripped off the outer sheathing covering the inside wires and
> > there
> > were no visible breaks or shorts in the two wires leading to the tip (mine
> > was the type that was threaded right into the boiler) I have not taken
> > apart the tip, but I suppose I could try to break it open and see if one
> > of the solder connections came loose inside the needle. I think that is
> > the only other possibly as the technology on a thermocouple is fairly
> > simple.
>
> > Mike
>
> Update: I broke the tip of the thermocouple off and the inside of the tip
> was full of crud. One of the lead was disintegrated. So it sounds like water
> must have penetrated the tip.
>
> Mike

how did water get in there??

and was it home-made?

dave
www.hitechespresso.com



  
Date: 03 Feb 2007 15:16:56
From: vMike
Subject: Re: PID problem solved

"daveb" <davebobblane@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1170531731.249457.230660@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> On Feb 3, 12:44 pm, "vMike"
> <MicZhaYel.GeoZr...@noYandZ.geZwaYrrenZ.com> wrote:
>> > Well I stripped off the outer sheathing covering the inside wires and
>> > there
>> > were no visible breaks or shorts in the two wires leading to the tip
>> > (mine
>> > was the type that was threaded right into the boiler) I have not taken
>> > apart the tip, but I suppose I could try to break it open and see if
>> > one
>> > of the solder connections came loose inside the needle. I think that is
>> > the only other possibly as the technology on a thermocouple is fairly
>> > simple.
>>
>> > Mike
>>
>> Update: I broke the tip of the thermocouple off and the inside of the tip
>> was full of crud. One of the lead was disintegrated. So it sounds like
>> water
>> must have penetrated the tip.
>>
>> Mike
>
> how did water get in there??
>
> and was it home-made?
>
> dave
> www.hitechespresso.com
>

It was a type J. Not homemade. The design of the thermocouple was a thread
piece that screwed into the boiler. In the center was a tube about 3/16" in
dia. a couple inches long and it had a 1/4" tip, which may even be some
kind of solder. The two wires went into the tube and were soldered to the
tip. I guess the high heat just broke it down. The tube and the tip exterior
were fairly clean of scale.

I had two previous original equipment thermal switches (not thermocouples)
which failed also on fairly quickly and one after about a year. I think the
heat just gets to these things and I am sure it will eventual get to the
PID.


Mike





   
Date: 03 Feb 2007 15:40:46
From: jggall01
Subject: Re: PID problem solved
On Sat, 3 Feb 2007 15:16:56 -0500, "vMike"
<MicZhaYel.GeoZrgeY@noYandZ.geZwaYrrenZ.com > wrote:


>
>It was a type J. Not homemade. The design of the thermocouple was a thread
>piece that screwed into the boiler. In the center was a tube about 3/16" in
>dia. a couple inches long and it had a 1/4" tip, which may even be some
>kind of solder. The two wires went into the tube and were soldered to the
>tip. I guess the high heat just broke it down. The tube and the tip exterior
>were fairly clean of scale.
>

Mike -

Thanks for your trouble in passing this info along. As Barry pointed
out, the iron wires in J t/c's are prone to rusting (although it isn't
clear how, or if, water got to your's). I have seen corrosion on the
cold end of J t/c's, too, at the controller body. All it takes is a
little humidity. I think most folks are using type T these days.

Jim

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com



   
Date: 03 Feb 2007 20:27:26
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: PID problem solved
On Sat, 3 Feb 2007 15:16:56 -0500, "vMike"
<MicZhaYel.GeoZrgeY@noYandZ.geZwaYrrenZ.com > wrote:

>It was a type J. Not homemade. The design of the thermocouple was a thread
>piece that screwed into the boiler. In the center was a tube about 3/16" in
>dia. a couple inches long and it had a 1/4" tip, which may even be some
>kind of solder. The two wires went into the tube and were soldered to the
>tip. I guess the high heat just broke it down. The tube and the tip exterior
>were fairly clean of scale.
>

it sounds like it had an exposed junction... type J thermocouples
have one wire of iron, so they should not be used in a constant
immersion water environment.



 
Date: 03 Feb 2007 11:45:58
From: jggall01
Subject: Re: PID problem solved
On Sat, 3 Feb 2007 09:24:19 -0500, "vMike"
<MicZhaYel.GeoZrgeY@noYandZ.geZwaYrrenZ.com > wrote:

>..snip.. I feared the worse, but with a bit of fiddling I
>suspected the thermocouple was bad. I determined this by disconnecting the
>line to the boiler by pulling the wire on the overload switch on the group
>head when the boiler was at room temp. I then moved and pulled on the
>thermocouple wire and bingo the temp on the PID started changing and as soon
>as I let go of the wire, the PID would stabilize again (at the wrong
>temperature) but it did stabilize. Repeat .. same outcome. So I bought a
>new thermocouple and bingo problem solved.
>

Mike -

Did you ever figure out what went wrong with the old thermocouple? If
there is some malignant thermocouple-eating enzyme in coffee, we would
all sure like to know about it....

Kidding aside, there might be something valuable to be learned from a
post-mortem on that sensor.

Jim

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com



  
Date: 03 Feb 2007 12:35:13
From: vMike
Subject: Re: PID problem solved

"jggall01" <jggall01@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:vqe9s255hfg4j8c1bsjd29629k06q8sq1c@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 3 Feb 2007 09:24:19 -0500, "vMike"
> <MicZhaYel.GeoZrgeY@noYandZ.geZwaYrrenZ.com> wrote:
>
>>..snip.. I feared the worse, but with a bit of fiddling I
>>suspected the thermocouple was bad. I determined this by disconnecting
>>the
>>line to the boiler by pulling the wire on the overload switch on the group
>>head when the boiler was at room temp. I then moved and pulled on the
>>thermocouple wire and bingo the temp on the PID started changing and as
>>soon
>>as I let go of the wire, the PID would stabilize again (at the wrong
>>temperature) but it did stabilize. Repeat .. same outcome. So I bought a
>>new thermocouple and bingo problem solved.
>>
>
> Mike -
>
> Did you ever figure out what went wrong with the old thermocouple? If
> there is some malignant thermocouple-eating enzyme in coffee, we would
> all sure like to know about it....
>
> Kidding aside, there might be something valuable to be learned from a
> post-mortem on that sensor.
>
> Jim
>
> --
> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
>
Well I stripped off the outer sheathing covering the inside wires and there
were no visible breaks or shorts in the two wires leading to the tip (mine
was the type that was threaded right into the boiler) I have not taken apart
the tip, but I suppose I could try to break it open and see if one of the
solder connections came loose inside the needle. I think that is the only
other possibly as the technology on a thermocouple is fairly simple.

Mike




   
Date: 03 Feb 2007 12:44:20
From: vMike
Subject: Re: PID problem solved

> Well I stripped off the outer sheathing covering the inside wires and
> there
> were no visible breaks or shorts in the two wires leading to the tip (mine
> was the type that was threaded right into the boiler) I have not taken
> apart the tip, but I suppose I could try to break it open and see if one
> of the solder connections came loose inside the needle. I think that is
> the only other possibly as the technology on a thermocouple is fairly
> simple.
>
> Mike
>
Update: I broke the tip of the thermocouple off and the inside of the tip
was full of crud. One of the lead was disintegrated. So it sounds like water
must have penetrated the tip.

Mike




    
Date: 03 Feb 2007 13:52:13
From: jggall01
Subject: Re: PID problem solved
On Sat, 3 Feb 2007 12:44:20 -0500, "vMike"
<MicZhaYel.GeoZrgeY@noYandZ.geZwaYrrenZ.com > wrote:


>Update: I broke the tip of the thermocouple off and the inside of the tip
>was full of crud. One of the lead was disintegrated. So it sounds like water
>must have penetrated the tip.
>

Type J?

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com



 
Date: 03 Feb 2007 07:52:36
From: bernie
Subject: Re: PID problem solved
vMike wrote:
> I PID my LM a couple years ago. I fitted the PID in between the brew switch
> and the indicator light. I was kind of proud of myself until I read that it
> was a bad idea and the PID should be outside the machine away from the
> ambient heat inside the machine. Well it was a little too late for that.
> Recently, the temperature on the PID was getting erratic and finally got so
> erratic it was useless. I feared the worse, but with a bit of fiddling I
> suspected the thermocouple was bad. I determined this by disconnecting the
> line to the boiler by pulling the wire on the overload switch on the group
> head when the boiler was at room temp. I then moved and pulled on the
> thermocouple wire and bingo the temp on the PID started changing and as soon
> as I let go of the wire, the PID would stabilize again (at the wrong
> temperature) but it did stabilize. Repeat .. same outcome. So I bought a
> new thermocouple and bingo problem solved.
>
> I am sure the PID will eventually fail from the heat but I am on 2 years and
> still going strong.
>
> Just thought I would pass it on to others that might have a similar
> experience.
>
> Mike
>
>

I'm in the process of putting a pid on my LM 2gr this week. I was
looking at the same problem and was wondering if anybody had placed it
in the dry compartment on the left side of the drain compartment. I was
thinking of cutting a hole either forward or facing to the left and then
putting the controller in some sort of watertight bag or box. Is yours
in a commercial setting and on 24/7?
Bernie


  
Date: 03 Feb 2007 17:55:21
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: PID problem solved
On Sat, 03 Feb 2007 07:52:36 -0700, bernie <bdigman@zianet.com > wrote:

> I'm in the process of putting a pid on my LM 2gr this week. I was
>looking at the same problem and was wondering if anybody had placed it
>in the dry compartment on the left side of the drain compartment. I was
>thinking of cutting a hole either forward or facing to the left and then
>putting the controller in some sort of watertight bag or box. Is yours
>in a commercial setting and on 24/7?

there are a few issues to consider: cutting that stainless on the
lower fascia will be an absolute bear, although i have no doubts
you'll figure out a way to do it (let me know when you do); the
controller must stay dry, which may be a problem under the drip tray;
and the controller must stay ventilated if the machine is to be on
24/7.

i really need to finish those controller housings....

i'm doing one machine which will have real-time brew temp displays
next to the brew buttons. i hope to have that done by the end of the
month.



   
Date: 03 Feb 2007 11:12:21
From: bernie
Subject: Re: PID problem solved
Barry Jarrett wrote:

>
> there are a few issues to consider: cutting that stainless on the
> lower fascia will be an absolute bear, although i have no doubts
> you'll figure out a way to do it (let me know when you do); the
> controller must stay dry, which may be a problem under the drip tray;
> and the controller must stay ventilated if the machine is to be on
> 24/7.

I've not measured temps in the dry boxes adjacent to the drip tray,
but I can't imagine them being too much above ambient. The bottom sheet
metal on my AV is removeable so it may just come off as it is there for
some gov't reg I'm sure. Prolly riveted. That would expose the entire
bottom of the machine and I'm not sure of the downside of that in the
environment I will be using it. Although they are college students, the
boilers are boilers and the checklists say to clean often under the
machine. Maybe a grill or screen.
>
> i really need to finish those controller housings....

Phttt. It isn't like you have been sitting eating bonbons.
>
> i'm doing one machine which will have real-time brew temp displays
> next to the brew buttons. i hope to have that done by the end of the
> month.

Where are you putting the temp probes? And is the machine PID'd? That
will just drive a pbtc nuts if they are looking at a temp differential
between the controller display and real-time. You have a mean streak,
Barry.
Bernie





    
Date: 03 Feb 2007 18:26:58
From: Barry Jarrett
Subject: Re: PID problem solved
On Sat, 03 Feb 2007 11:12:21 -0700, bernie <bdigman@zianet.com > wrote:

> I've not measured temps in the dry boxes adjacent to the drip tray,
>but I can't imagine them being too much above ambient.

the temp down there is fine, provided you don't mount it in an
airtight box. ;)


>metal on my AV is removeable so it may just come off as it is there for
>some gov't reg I'm sure. Prolly riveted. That would expose the entire

the panel on my 4-grp is riveted.


>bottom of the machine and I'm not sure of the downside of that in the
>environment I will be using it. Although they are college students, the
>boilers are boilers and the checklists say to clean often under the
>machine. Maybe a grill or screen.

my home machine has no bottom panel and it has posed no problems.
everything hot is up and away. make sure there's no wiring that can
be contacted by a roving hand under the machine. the 4-grp panel has
several round ventilation holes which are screened over.


> Where are you putting the temp probes? And is the machine PID'd? That
>will just drive a pbtc nuts if they are looking at a temp differential
>between the controller display and real-time.

the temp probes go in the banjo bolts (standard barry mod...). the
machine will be PID'd, but that display will not be visible to the
operator.




  
Date: 03 Feb 2007 08:35:18
From: George_espresso
Subject: Re: PID problem solved
2nd or 3rd try at this post... Sorry for the duplications, if any
show up.

Bernie,

I have an early 2 gr. Linea circa 1989. I put my PID at the lower
right under the drain tray pointing forward. I used a Watlow 96. It
is a 1/16 DIN package and fits nicely there. I've been running it for
over 2 years 24/7 without problems. The tray covers it completely, so
no water problems. The only water issue I ever encountered was a
couple of weeks ago when I needed to drain the steam boiler to change
out the original heating element. I removed the screw below the sight
glass and the water flow eventually overpowered the hose from the
drain box to the carboy I drain into (I run my machine on a carboy
because it sits on an island cabinet in my kitchen). It made a mess
on the counter but the PID sat high and dry. The drain hose has a
little high spot in it that I should correct...

Someone posted SCCA pictures a couple of years ago that showed a Linea
with the PID in the same spot. Looked nice, so I put mine there, too.
I was going to try an underslung box like Paul Pratt used, but I like
my results better.

Hope this helps,

George



On Sat, 03 Feb 2007 07:52:36 -0700, bernie <bdigman@zianet.com > wrote:

>vMike wrote:
>> I PID my LM a couple years ago. I fitted the PID in between the brew switch
>> and the indicator light. I was kind of proud of myself until I read that it
>> was a bad idea and the PID should be outside the machine away from the
>> ambient heat inside the machine. Well it was a little too late for that.
>> Recently, the temperature on the PID was getting erratic and finally got so
>> erratic it was useless. I feared the worse, but with a bit of fiddling I
>> suspected the thermocouple was bad. I determined this by disconnecting the
>> line to the boiler by pulling the wire on the overload switch on the group
>> head when the boiler was at room temp. I then moved and pulled on the
>> thermocouple wire and bingo the temp on the PID started changing and as soon
>> as I let go of the wire, the PID would stabilize again (at the wrong
>> temperature) but it did stabilize. Repeat .. same outcome. So I bought a
>> new thermocouple and bingo problem solved.
>>
>> I am sure the PID will eventually fail from the heat but I am on 2 years and
>> still going strong.
>>
>> Just thought I would pass it on to others that might have a similar
>> experience.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>
> I'm in the process of putting a pid on my LM 2gr this week. I was
>looking at the same problem and was wondering if anybody had placed it
>in the dry compartment on the left side of the drain compartment. I was
>thinking of cutting a hole either forward or facing to the left and then
>putting the controller in some sort of watertight bag or box. Is yours
>in a commercial setting and on 24/7?
>Bernie

George Cameron
Stockton, CA


  
Date: 03 Feb 2007 16:29:28
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: PID problem solved
Howdy Bernie!
I'm mounting a 1/32 DIN PID in the front panel of a Nuova Simonelli Mac
Digit. The boiler takes up most of the interior space (it's a huge boiler
for a 1-group) & I couldn't find a cool(ish), dry spot to mount the 'naked'
PID. So, I bought a Hammond 1212 Panel Mount enclosure, sealed the slot in
the back, added a grommet for the wiring (sealed it too), cut a hole in the
enclosure to accommodate a 12V DC fan (smallest I could find but it requires
a separate power source). I've tested it at 212F & the internal temp stays
within the PID's limits. I don't have pics yet but I'll post them on ABC
when I get some made.
--
Robert (PID's? We don't need no stinking PID's. Ha, Ha, Ha!) Harmon
http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
http://tinyurl.com/psfob
http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r

"bernie" <bdigman@zianet.com > wrote in message
news:45c4a1b5$1@nntp.zianet.com...
> vMike wrote:
>> I PID my LM a couple years ago. I fitted the PID in between the brew
>> switch and the indicator light. I was kind of proud of myself until I
>> read that it was a bad idea and the PID should be outside the machine
>> away from the ambient heat inside the machine. Well it was a little too
>> late for that. Recently, the temperature on the PID was getting erratic
>> and finally got so erratic it was useless. I feared the worse, but with a
>> bit of fiddling I suspected the thermocouple was bad. I determined this
>> by disconnecting the line to the boiler by pulling the wire on the
>> overload switch on the group head when the boiler was at room temp. I
>> then moved and pulled on the thermocouple wire and bingo the temp on the
>> PID started changing and as soon as I let go of the wire, the PID would
>> stabilize again (at the wrong temperature) but it did stabilize. Repeat
>> .. same outcome. So I bought a new thermocouple and bingo problem
>> solved.
>>
>> I am sure the PID will eventually fail from the heat but I am on 2 years
>> and still going strong.
>>
>> Just thought I would pass it on to others that might have a similar
>> experience.
>>
>> Mike
>
> I'm in the process of putting a pid on my LM 2gr this week. I was
> looking at the same problem and was wondering if anybody had placed it in
> the dry compartment on the left side of the drain compartment. I was
> thinking of cutting a hole either forward or facing to the left and then
> putting the controller in some sort of watertight bag or box. Is yours in
> a commercial setting and on 24/7?
> Bernie




  
Date: 03 Feb 2007 08:28:39
From: George_espresso
Subject: Re: PID problem solved

Bernie,

I have an early 2 gr. Linea circa 1989. I put my PID at the lower
right under the drain tray pointing forward. I used a Watlow 96. It
is a 1/16 DIN package and fits nicely there. I've been running it for
over 2 years 24/7 without problems. The tray covers it completely, so
no water problems. The only water issue I ever encountered was a
couple of weeks ago when I needed to drain the steam boiler to change
out the original heating element. I removed the screw below the sight
glass and the water flow eventually overpowered the hose from the
drain box to the carboy I drain into (I run my machine on a carboy
because it sits on an island cabinet in my kitchen). It made a mess
on the counter but the PID sat high and dry. The drain hose has a
little high spot in it that I should correct...

Someone posted SCCA pictures a couple of years ago that showed a Linea
with the PID in the same spot. Looked nice, so I put mine there, too.
I was going to try an underslung box like Paul Pratt used, but I like
my results better.

Hope this helps,

George

On Sat, 03 Feb 2007 07:52:36 -0700, bernie <bdigman@zianet.com > wrote:

>vMike wrote:
>> I PID my LM a couple years ago. I fitted the PID in between the brew switch
>> and the indicator light. I was kind of proud of myself until I read that it
>> was a bad idea and the PID should be outside the machine away from the
>> ambient heat inside the machine. Well it was a little too late for that.
>> Recently, the temperature on the PID was getting erratic and finally got so
>> erratic it was useless. I feared the worse, but with a bit of fiddling I
>> suspected the thermocouple was bad. I determined this by disconnecting the
>> line to the boiler by pulling the wire on the overload switch on the group
>> head when the boiler was at room temp. I then moved and pulled on the
>> thermocouple wire and bingo the temp on the PID started changing and as soon
>> as I let go of the wire, the PID would stabilize again (at the wrong
>> temperature) but it did stabilize. Repeat .. same outcome. So I bought a
>> new thermocouple and bingo problem solved.
>>
>> I am sure the PID will eventually fail from the heat but I am on 2 years and
>> still going strong.
>>
>> Just thought I would pass it on to others that might have a similar
>> experience.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>
> I'm in the process of putting a pid on my LM 2gr this week. I was
>looking at the same problem and was wondering if anybody had placed it
>in the dry compartment on the left side of the drain compartment. I was
>thinking of cutting a hole either forward or facing to the left and then
>putting the controller in some sort of watertight bag or box. Is yours
>in a commercial setting and on 24/7?
>Bernie

George Cameron
Stockton, CA


  
Date: 03 Feb 2007 08:25:19
From: George_espresso
Subject: Re: PID problem solved


Bernie,

I have an early 2 gr. Linea circa 1989. I put my PID at the lower
right under the drain tray pointing forward. I used a Watlow 96. It
is a 1/16 DIN package and fits nicely there. I've been running it for
over 2 years 24/7 without problems. The tray covers it completely, so
no water problems. The only water issue I ever encountered was a
couple of weeks ago when I needed to drain the steam boiler to change
out the original heating element. I removed the screw below the sight
glass and the water flow eventually overpowered the hose from the
drain box to the carboy I drain into (I run my machine on a carboy
because it sits on an island cabinet in my kitchen). It made a mess
on the counter but the PID sat high and dry. The drain hose has a
little high spot in it that I should correct...

Someone posted SCCA pictures a couple of years ago that showed a Linea
with the PID in the same spot. Looked nice, so I put mine there, too.
I was going to try an underslung box like Paul Pratt used, but I like
my results better.

Hope this helps,

George




On Sat, 03 Feb 2007 07:52:36 -0700, bernie <bdigman@zianet.com > wrote:

>vMike wrote:
>> I PID my LM a couple years ago. I fitted the PID in between the brew switch
>> and the indicator light. I was kind of proud of myself until I read that it
>> was a bad idea and the PID should be outside the machine away from the
>> ambient heat inside the machine. Well it was a little too late for that.
>> Recently, the temperature on the PID was getting erratic and finally got so
>> erratic it was useless. I feared the worse, but with a bit of fiddling I
>> suspected the thermocouple was bad. I determined this by disconnecting the
>> line to the boiler by pulling the wire on the overload switch on the group
>> head when the boiler was at room temp. I then moved and pulled on the
>> thermocouple wire and bingo the temp on the PID started changing and as soon
>> as I let go of the wire, the PID would stabilize again (at the wrong
>> temperature) but it did stabilize. Repeat .. same outcome. So I bought a
>> new thermocouple and bingo problem solved.
>>
>> I am sure the PID will eventually fail from the heat but I am on 2 years and
>> still going strong.
>>
>> Just thought I would pass it on to others that might have a similar
>> experience.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>
> I'm in the process of putting a pid on my LM 2gr this week. I was
>looking at the same problem and was wondering if anybody had placed it
>in the dry compartment on the left side of the drain compartment. I was
>thinking of cutting a hole either forward or facing to the left and then
>putting the controller in some sort of watertight bag or box. Is yours
>in a commercial setting and on 24/7?
>Bernie

George Cameron
Stockton, CA


  
Date: 03 Feb 2007 09:57:57
From: vMike
Subject: Re: PID problem solved

"bernie" <bdigman@zianet.com > wrote in message
news:45c4a1b5$1@nntp.zianet.com...
> vMike wrote:
>> I PID my LM a couple years ago. I fitted the PID in between the brew
>> switch and the indicator light. I was kind of proud of myself until I
>> read that it was a bad idea and the PID should be outside the machine
>> away from the ambient heat inside the machine. Well it was a little too
>> late for that. Recently, the temperature on the PID was getting erratic
>> and finally got so erratic it was useless. I feared the worse, but with a
>> bit of fiddling I suspected the thermocouple was bad. I determined this
>> by disconnecting the line to the boiler by pulling the wire on the
>> overload switch on the group head when the boiler was at room temp. I
>> then moved and pulled on the thermocouple wire and bingo the temp on the
>> PID started changing and as soon as I let go of the wire, the PID would
>> stabilize again (at the wrong temperature) but it did stabilize. Repeat
>> .. same outcome. So I bought a new thermocouple and bingo problem
>> solved.
>>
>> I am sure the PID will eventually fail from the heat but I am on 2 years
>> and still going strong.
>>
>> Just thought I would pass it on to others that might have a similar
>> experience.
>>
>> Mike
>
> I'm in the process of putting a pid on my LM 2gr this week. I was
> looking at the same problem and was wondering if anybody had placed it in
> the dry compartment on the left side of the drain compartment. I was
> thinking of cutting a hole either forward or facing to the left and then
> putting the controller in some sort of watertight bag or box. Is yours in
> a commercial setting and on 24/7?
> Bernie

Mine is a Linea 1 group on 24/7
I saw one that someone put underneath between the group head and the hot
water wand and it looked good but I would wonder about water ruining it.
This is the link. (it is a Rancilio) www.hitechespresso.com
Mike