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Date: 10 Mar 2007 20:03:52
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Q: Nuova Simonelli trouble shooting (redux)
OK, I've found the blockage keeping the autofill from working. While I was
locating & fixing that I had a brain fart - take the boiler apart & descale
*everything*. No problem: EXCEPT (isn't there always one of those?) now the
heating element causes the circuit to trip. It's probably something simple
or it may be electrolysis caused enough metal to build up to short the
posts. ???

Here's what I did;
1) Descaled elements in hot acidic solution, keeping water level below
exterior edge of mounting flange - so no plating probably occurred there.
2) Reinstalled element using new Teflon gasket & RTF sealant.
3) Fired up machine & tripped the circuit.
4) Disconnected element & everything else worked fine.
5) Reconnected element & tripped circuit.

So the problem IS in the element that worked fine before I fixed it. Any
suggestions on what went wrong?
--
Robert (Old rule, too often ignored: If it ain't broke, don't fix it!)
Harmon
http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
http://tinyurl.com/psfob
http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r






 
Date: 12 Mar 2007 04:29:32
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Nuova Simonelli trouble shooting (redux)
On 12, 12:11 am, "Robert Harmon" <r_h_har...@Zhotmail.com > wrote:
> As crass as daveb can get at least he uses one of his many IDs to post. No
> respect can be given to anonymous posters. Go play in the kiddy porn groups.
> --
> Robert (Gig 'em!) Harmonhttp://tinyurl.com/pou2yhttp://tinyurl.com/psfobhttp://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
>
> "Anon" <a...@somewhere.invalid> wrote in message
>
> news:pan.2007.03.12.03.09.25@somewhere.invalid...
>
> > On Sun, 11 2007 19:21:51 -0700, daveb wrote:
>
> >> Yeah, and PLEASE cut off the the ground on the plug. then grab the cold
> >> water pipe.
>
> >> There is STILL hope.
>
> > One day he claims to be trying to cultivate couth, the next day, this.

thank you RH. it WAS only a joke.

and BTW, I think "anon" is just another version of the 'roughjaw'
who is obessesed with me. how odd.

d
www.hitechespresso.com

and 'miss penny' ?? that's my wife's name, with the Southern flavor.




 
Date: 12 Mar 2007 04:09:16
From: Anon
Subject: Re: Nuova Simonelli trouble shooting (redux)
On Sun, 11 2007 19:21:51 -0700, daveb wrote:

> Yeah, and PLEASE cut off the the ground on the plug. then grab the cold
> water pipe.
>
> There is STILL hope.

One day he claims to be trying to cultivate couth, the next day, this.


  
Date: 12 Mar 2007 04:11:44
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Nuova Simonelli trouble shooting (redux)
As crass as daveb can get at least he uses one of his many IDs to post. No
respect can be given to anonymous posters. Go play in the kiddy porn groups.
--
Robert (Gig 'em!) Harmon
http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
http://tinyurl.com/psfob
http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r

"Anon" <anon@somewhere.invalid > wrote in message
news:pan.2007.03.12.03.09.25@somewhere.invalid...
> On Sun, 11 2007 19:21:51 -0700, daveb wrote:
>
>> Yeah, and PLEASE cut off the the ground on the plug. then grab the cold
>> water pipe.
>>
>> There is STILL hope.
>
> One day he claims to be trying to cultivate couth, the next day, this.




 
Date: 11 Mar 2007 19:21:51
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Nuova Simonelli trouble shooting (redux)
On 11, 7:39 pm, "Robert Harmon" <r_h_har...@Zhotmail.com > wrote:
> How about that, sports fans! Someone over on CoffeeGeek suggested switching
> to an outlet without a GFI. Now this machine is working like a charm - just
> need to adjust the pstat & pump for optimum extraction & we'll see if it's
> been worth the trouble (actually very little trouble, just needed the time
> to get it done). After that I'll consider whether I want to PID this machine
> or not.
>
> Thanks to everyone for their help; even daveb who, although he contributed
> nothing useful to the thread, kept our spirits up by giving us someone to
> laugh at. ;)
> --
> Robert (PID everything - even the old Melitta!) Harmonhttp://tinyurl.com/pou2yhttp://tinyurl.com/psfobhttp://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
>
> "Robert Harmon" <r_h_har...@Zhotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:IaEIh.8477$PL.4828@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> > OK, I've found the blockage keeping the autofill from working. While I was
> > locating & fixing that I had a brain fart - take the boiler apart &
> > descale *everything*. No problem: EXCEPT (isn't there always one of
> > those?) now the heating element causes the circuit to trip. It's probably
> > something simple or it may be electrolysis caused enough metal to build up
> > to short the posts. ???
>
> > Here's what I did;
> > 1) Descaled elements in hot acidic solution, keeping water level below
> > exterior edge of mounting flange - so no plating probably occurred there.
> > 2) Reinstalled element using new Teflon gasket & RTF sealant.
> > 3) Fired up machine & tripped the circuit.
> > 4) Disconnected element & everything else worked fine.
> > 5) Reconnected element & tripped circuit.
>
> > So the problem IS in the element that worked fine before I fixed it. Any
> > suggestions on what went wrong?
> > --
> > Robert (Old rule, too often ignored: If it ain't broke, don't fix it!)
> > Harmon
> >http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
> >http://tinyurl.com/psfob
> >http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r

Yeah, and PLEASE cut off the the ground on the plug. then grab the
cold water pipe.

There is STILL hope.




 
Date: 11 Mar 2007 23:39:11
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Nuova Simonelli trouble shooting (redux)
How about that, sports fans! Someone over on CoffeeGeek suggested switching
to an outlet without a GFI. Now this machine is working like a charm - just
need to adjust the pstat & pump for optimum extraction & we'll see if it's
been worth the trouble (actually very little trouble, just needed the time
to get it done). After that I'll consider whether I want to PID this machine
or not.

Thanks to everyone for their help; even daveb who, although he contributed
nothing useful to the thread, kept our spirits up by giving us someone to
laugh at. ;)
--
Robert (PID everything - even the old Melitta!) Harmon
http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
http://tinyurl.com/psfob
http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r

"Robert Harmon" <r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com > wrote in message
news:IaEIh.8477$PL.4828@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> OK, I've found the blockage keeping the autofill from working. While I was
> locating & fixing that I had a brain fart - take the boiler apart &
> descale *everything*. No problem: EXCEPT (isn't there always one of
> those?) now the heating element causes the circuit to trip. It's probably
> something simple or it may be electrolysis caused enough metal to build up
> to short the posts. ???
>
> Here's what I did;
> 1) Descaled elements in hot acidic solution, keeping water level below
> exterior edge of mounting flange - so no plating probably occurred there.
> 2) Reinstalled element using new Teflon gasket & RTF sealant.
> 3) Fired up machine & tripped the circuit.
> 4) Disconnected element & everything else worked fine.
> 5) Reconnected element & tripped circuit.
>
> So the problem IS in the element that worked fine before I fixed it. Any
> suggestions on what went wrong?
> --
> Robert (Old rule, too often ignored: If it ain't broke, don't fix it!)
> Harmon
> http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
> http://tinyurl.com/psfob
> http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
>




  
Date: 11 Mar 2007 21:46:30
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Nuova Simonelli trouble shooting (redux)
Yes, and if you take the batteries out of your smoke alarms they won't make
any annoying noise when your house gets smoky.

Your GFI is trying to tell you something - somewhere there is a current leak
to ground. That's why it's tripping.

A regular breaker only cares how many amps are going out the hot wire - if
it's a 15A breaker and less than 15A are leaving, it doesn't know or care
whether these 15A are traveling back thru neutral or thru the ground wire or
thru your body. So the machine will run absent a dead short to ground but
you can't be sure about it's safety. You should find what is causing the
GFI to trip - it may be harmless or it could be potentially deadly.


"Robert Harmon" <r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com > wrote in message
news:zq0Jh.8933$PL.5428@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> How about that, sports fans! Someone over on CoffeeGeek suggested
> switching to an outlet without a GFI. Now this machine is working like a
> charm - just need to adjust the pstat & pump for optimum extraction &
> we'll see if it's been worth the trouble (actually very little trouble,
> just needed the time to get it done). After that I'll consider whether I
> want to PID this machine or not.
>
> Thanks to everyone for their help; even daveb who, although he contributed
> nothing useful to the thread, kept our spirits up by giving us someone to
> laugh at. ;)
> --
> Robert (PID everything - even the old Melitta!) Harmon
> http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
> http://tinyurl.com/psfob
> http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
>
> "Robert Harmon" <r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:IaEIh.8477$PL.4828@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>> OK, I've found the blockage keeping the autofill from working. While I
>> was locating & fixing that I had a brain fart - take the boiler apart &
>> descale *everything*. No problem: EXCEPT (isn't there always one of
>> those?) now the heating element causes the circuit to trip. It's probably
>> something simple or it may be electrolysis caused enough metal to build
>> up to short the posts. ???
>>
>> Here's what I did;
>> 1) Descaled elements in hot acidic solution, keeping water level below
>> exterior edge of mounting flange - so no plating probably occurred there.
>> 2) Reinstalled element using new Teflon gasket & RTF sealant.
>> 3) Fired up machine & tripped the circuit.
>> 4) Disconnected element & everything else worked fine.
>> 5) Reconnected element & tripped circuit.
>>
>> So the problem IS in the element that worked fine before I fixed it. Any
>> suggestions on what went wrong?
>> --
>> Robert (Old rule, too often ignored: If it ain't broke, don't fix it!)
>> Harmon
>> http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
>> http://tinyurl.com/psfob
>> http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
>>
>
>




   
Date: 11 Mar 2007 21:47:24
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Nuova Simonelli trouble shooting (redux)
PS Did your machine used to run on a GFI and now it won't? Again, it's
trying to tell you something.


"Jack Denver" <nunuvyer@netscape.net > wrote in message
news:36SdnTB6IZRqLWnYnZ2dnUVZ_oupnZ2d@comcast.com...
> Yes, and if you take the batteries out of your smoke alarms they won't
> make any annoying noise when your house gets smoky.
>
> Your GFI is trying to tell you something - somewhere there is a current
> leak to ground. That's why it's tripping.
>
> A regular breaker only cares how many amps are going out the hot wire - if
> it's a 15A breaker and less than 15A are leaving, it doesn't know or care
> whether these 15A are traveling back thru neutral or thru the ground wire
> or thru your body. So the machine will run absent a dead short to ground
> but you can't be sure about it's safety. You should find what is causing
> the GFI to trip - it may be harmless or it could be potentially deadly.
>
>
> "Robert Harmon" <r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:zq0Jh.8933$PL.5428@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>> How about that, sports fans! Someone over on CoffeeGeek suggested
>> switching to an outlet without a GFI. Now this machine is working like a
>> charm - just need to adjust the pstat & pump for optimum extraction &
>> we'll see if it's been worth the trouble (actually very little trouble,
>> just needed the time to get it done). After that I'll consider whether I
>> want to PID this machine or not.
>>
>> Thanks to everyone for their help; even daveb who, although he
>> contributed nothing useful to the thread, kept our spirits up by giving
>> us someone to laugh at. ;)
>> --
>> Robert (PID everything - even the old Melitta!) Harmon
>> http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
>> http://tinyurl.com/psfob
>> http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
>>
>> "Robert Harmon" <r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:IaEIh.8477$PL.4828@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>> OK, I've found the blockage keeping the autofill from working. While I
>>> was locating & fixing that I had a brain fart - take the boiler apart &
>>> descale *everything*. No problem: EXCEPT (isn't there always one of
>>> those?) now the heating element causes the circuit to trip. It's
>>> probably something simple or it may be electrolysis caused enough metal
>>> to build up to short the posts. ???
>>>
>>> Here's what I did;
>>> 1) Descaled elements in hot acidic solution, keeping water level below
>>> exterior edge of mounting flange - so no plating probably occurred
>>> there.
>>> 2) Reinstalled element using new Teflon gasket & RTF sealant.
>>> 3) Fired up machine & tripped the circuit.
>>> 4) Disconnected element & everything else worked fine.
>>> 5) Reconnected element & tripped circuit.
>>>
>>> So the problem IS in the element that worked fine before I fixed it. Any
>>> suggestions on what went wrong?
>>> --
>>> Robert (Old rule, too often ignored: If it ain't broke, don't fix it!)
>>> Harmon
>>> http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
>>> http://tinyurl.com/psfob
>>> http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
>>>
>>
>>
>
>




    
Date: 12 Mar 2007 02:26:21
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Nuova Simonelli trouble shooting (redux)
I appreciate your concerns & normally wouldn't recommend bypassing safety
features, but this was done for a few hours only & under very close
supervision; the assumption being that when the whole machine got soaked
moisture got into some semi-sealed circuits. Getting the machine to
operating temp and holding it there for a while let everything dry out. Now
when I plug it into a GFI circuit everything works fine.

Lesson learned - if you're machine isn't stone cold keep water away from the
machine internals, as the hot *sealed* circuits will pull moisture in as
they cool.
--
Robert (No guts, no glory! No sts, know nothing!) Harmon
http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
http://tinyurl.com/psfob
http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r

"Jack Denver" <nunuvyer@netscape.net > wrote in message
news:X7CdnT7G_eqwLGnYnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> PS Did your machine used to run on a GFI and now it won't? Again, it's
> trying to tell you something.
>
>
> "Jack Denver" <nunuvyer@netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:36SdnTB6IZRqLWnYnZ2dnUVZ_oupnZ2d@comcast.com...
>> Yes, and if you take the batteries out of your smoke alarms they won't
>> make any annoying noise when your house gets smoky.
>>
>> Your GFI is trying to tell you something - somewhere there is a current
>> leak to ground. That's why it's tripping.
>>
>> A regular breaker only cares how many amps are going out the hot wire -
>> if it's a 15A breaker and less than 15A are leaving, it doesn't know or
>> care whether these 15A are traveling back thru neutral or thru the ground
>> wire or thru your body. So the machine will run absent a dead short to
>> ground but you can't be sure about it's safety. You should find what is
>> causing the GFI to trip - it may be harmless or it could be potentially
>> deadly.
>>
>>
>> "Robert Harmon" <r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:zq0Jh.8933$PL.5428@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>> How about that, sports fans! Someone over on CoffeeGeek suggested
>>> switching to an outlet without a GFI. Now this machine is working like a
>>> charm - just need to adjust the pstat & pump for optimum extraction &
>>> we'll see if it's been worth the trouble (actually very little trouble,
>>> just needed the time to get it done). After that I'll consider whether I
>>> want to PID this machine or not.
>>>
>>> Thanks to everyone for their help; even daveb who, although he
>>> contributed nothing useful to the thread, kept our spirits up by giving
>>> us someone to laugh at. ;)
>>> --
>>> Robert (PID everything - even the old Melitta!) Harmon
>>> http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
>>> http://tinyurl.com/psfob
>>> http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
>>>
>>> "Robert Harmon" <r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:IaEIh.8477$PL.4828@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>>> OK, I've found the blockage keeping the autofill from working. While I
>>>> was locating & fixing that I had a brain fart - take the boiler apart &
>>>> descale *everything*. No problem: EXCEPT (isn't there always one of
>>>> those?) now the heating element causes the circuit to trip. It's
>>>> probably something simple or it may be electrolysis caused enough metal
>>>> to build up to short the posts. ???
>>>>
>>>> Here's what I did;
>>>> 1) Descaled elements in hot acidic solution, keeping water level below
>>>> exterior edge of mounting flange - so no plating probably occurred
>>>> there.
>>>> 2) Reinstalled element using new Teflon gasket & RTF sealant.
>>>> 3) Fired up machine & tripped the circuit.
>>>> 4) Disconnected element & everything else worked fine.
>>>> 5) Reconnected element & tripped circuit.
>>>>
>>>> So the problem IS in the element that worked fine before I fixed it.
>>>> Any suggestions on what went wrong?
>>>> --
>>>> Robert (Old rule, too often ignored: If it ain't broke, don't fix it!)
>>>> Harmon
>>>> http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
>>>> http://tinyurl.com/psfob
>>>> http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>




     
Date: 12 Mar 2007 14:50:01
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Nuova Simonelli trouble shooting (redux)
I gotcha now. Ignoring a ground fault just long enough to get the machine
heated up and dried out is OK in my book. GFI's are very sensitive and if
you had some minor current leakage thru damp insulation that will go away
as soon as the machine is dry it's not that big a deal, especially if the
the machine is properly grounded so that the return path is thru the ground
conductor. I just wouldn't touch any metal parts of the machine until I had
it back on the GFI.



"Robert Harmon" <r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com > wrote in message
news:hT2Jh.11740$Jl.5333@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>I appreciate your concerns & normally wouldn't recommend bypassing safety
>features, but this was done for a few hours only & under very close
>supervision; the assumption being that when the whole machine got soaked
>moisture got into some semi-sealed circuits. Getting the machine to
>operating temp and holding it there for a while let everything dry out. Now
>when I plug it into a GFI circuit everything works fine.
>
> Lesson learned - if you're machine isn't stone cold keep water away from
> the machine internals, as the hot *sealed* circuits will pull moisture in
> as they cool.
> --
> Robert (No guts, no glory! No sts, know nothing!) Harmon
> http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
> http://tinyurl.com/psfob
> http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
>
> "Jack Denver" <nunuvyer@netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:X7CdnT7G_eqwLGnYnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>> PS Did your machine used to run on a GFI and now it won't? Again, it's
>> trying to tell you something.
>>
>>
>> "Jack Denver" <nunuvyer@netscape.net> wrote in message
>> news:36SdnTB6IZRqLWnYnZ2dnUVZ_oupnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>> Yes, and if you take the batteries out of your smoke alarms they won't
>>> make any annoying noise when your house gets smoky.
>>>
>>> Your GFI is trying to tell you something - somewhere there is a current
>>> leak to ground. That's why it's tripping.
>>>
>>> A regular breaker only cares how many amps are going out the hot wire -
>>> if it's a 15A breaker and less than 15A are leaving, it doesn't know or
>>> care whether these 15A are traveling back thru neutral or thru the
>>> ground wire or thru your body. So the machine will run absent a dead
>>> short to ground but you can't be sure about it's safety. You should
>>> find what is causing the GFI to trip - it may be harmless or it could be
>>> potentially deadly.
>>>
>>>
>>> "Robert Harmon" <r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:zq0Jh.8933$PL.5428@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>>> How about that, sports fans! Someone over on CoffeeGeek suggested
>>>> switching to an outlet without a GFI. Now this machine is working like
>>>> a charm - just need to adjust the pstat & pump for optimum extraction &
>>>> we'll see if it's been worth the trouble (actually very little trouble,
>>>> just needed the time to get it done). After that I'll consider whether
>>>> I want to PID this machine or not.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks to everyone for their help; even daveb who, although he
>>>> contributed nothing useful to the thread, kept our spirits up by giving
>>>> us someone to laugh at. ;)
>>>> --
>>>> Robert (PID everything - even the old Melitta!) Harmon
>>>> http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
>>>> http://tinyurl.com/psfob
>>>> http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
>>>>
>>>> "Robert Harmon" <r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:IaEIh.8477$PL.4828@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>>>> OK, I've found the blockage keeping the autofill from working. While I
>>>>> was locating & fixing that I had a brain fart - take the boiler apart
>>>>> & descale *everything*. No problem: EXCEPT (isn't there always one of
>>>>> those?) now the heating element causes the circuit to trip. It's
>>>>> probably something simple or it may be electrolysis caused enough
>>>>> metal to build up to short the posts. ???
>>>>>
>>>>> Here's what I did;
>>>>> 1) Descaled elements in hot acidic solution, keeping water level below
>>>>> exterior edge of mounting flange - so no plating probably occurred
>>>>> there.
>>>>> 2) Reinstalled element using new Teflon gasket & RTF sealant.
>>>>> 3) Fired up machine & tripped the circuit.
>>>>> 4) Disconnected element & everything else worked fine.
>>>>> 5) Reconnected element & tripped circuit.
>>>>>
>>>>> So the problem IS in the element that worked fine before I fixed it.
>>>>> Any suggestions on what went wrong?
>>>>> --
>>>>> Robert (Old rule, too often ignored: If it ain't broke, don't fix it!)
>>>>> Harmon
>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/psfob
>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>




 
Date: 11 Mar 2007 11:10:01
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Nuova Simonelli trouble shooting (redux)
Check the resistance on the heating element between the terminals, not just
continuity. It should be a few 10s of ohms depending on element size and
voltage (according to V =IR). For example, in a 240V machine, 2400 watt
element pulls 10A. (watts = 240Vx 10A)

for resistance, 240V= 10A x 24 ohms. Now the element might not read
precisely 24 ohms - it might be 20 or 30, but if it is wildly off from the
predicted value something in wrong.

And check for resistance between the terminals and boiler with the element
installed and boiler filled with water - it should be infinite. Your
continuity tester might not pick up on a high resistance path and the
behavior of the element dry outside the boiler may be different than when it
is fitted.



"Robert Harmon" <r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com > wrote in message
news:IaEIh.8477$PL.4828@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> OK, I've found the blockage keeping the autofill from working. While I was
> locating & fixing that I had a brain fart - take the boiler apart &
> descale *everything*. No problem: EXCEPT (isn't there always one of
> those?) now the heating element causes the circuit to trip. It's probably
> something simple or it may be electrolysis caused enough metal to build up
> to short the posts. ???
>
> Here's what I did;
> 1) Descaled elements in hot acidic solution, keeping water level below
> exterior edge of mounting flange - so no plating probably occurred there.
> 2) Reinstalled element using new Teflon gasket & RTF sealant.
> 3) Fired up machine & tripped the circuit.
> 4) Disconnected element & everything else worked fine.
> 5) Reconnected element & tripped circuit.
>
> So the problem IS in the element that worked fine before I fixed it. Any
> suggestions on what went wrong?
> --
> Robert (Old rule, too often ignored: If it ain't broke, don't fix it!)
> Harmon
> http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
> http://tinyurl.com/psfob
> http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
>
>




 
Date: 11 Mar 2007 07:06:30
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Q: Nuova Simonelli trouble shooting (redux)
On 11, 8:31 am, "chardinej" <chard...@nbnet.nb.ca > wrote:
> On 11, 12:39 am, "Robert Harmon" <r_h_har...@Zhotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hmmm, sounds reasonable. Uh oh, no dead short detected here - no continuity
> > between terminals & ground. Let's compare to the element on my Bunn ES-1A.
> > Yep, identical readings, so I'm not sure what to do now. The machine did get
> > pretty wet last week but everything is dry now. Only the element leads were
> > disconnected so it has to be here somewhere. Switching from a fiber gasket
> > to a silicone/RTV combo was the only mod made. This one's got me baffled.
>
> > I do have another Nuova Simonelli waiting for parts so maybe I'll swap out
> > the elements & see what I get.
> > --
> > Robert (Gig 'em!) Harmonhttp://tinyurl.com/pou2yhttp://tinyurl.com/psfobhttp://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
>
> > "sprsso" <acrit...@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:rl66v21dtp7brhb11o8jbods0da5jdr55u@4ax.com...
>
> > > Check continuity to ground from the element terminals. With wires both
> > > connected and not. One thing I've encountered more than once is that
> > > if a mineral encrustation permeates the sheath surrounding the element
> > > coil, descaling removes the insulating effect that the scale provides
> > > between the coil and water. Or the sheathing could have been nicked
> > > removing or replacing the element. In any event you have a dead short
> > > to ground somewhere in heating circuit. Good luck....al
>
> > > On Sat, 10 2007 20:03:52 GMT, "Robert Harmon"
> > > <r_h_har...@Zhotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >>OK, I've found the blockage keeping the autofill from working. While I was
> > >>locating & fixing that I had a brain fart - take the boiler apart &
> > >>descale
> > >>*everything*. No problem: EXCEPT (isn't there always one of those?) now
> > >>the
> > >>heating element causes the circuit to trip. It's probably something simple
> > >>or it may be electrolysis caused enough metal to build up to short the
> > >>posts. ???
>
> > >>Here's what I did;
> > >>1) Descaled elements in hot acidic solution, keeping water level below
> > >>exterior edge of mounting flange - so no plating probably occurred there.
> > >>2) Reinstalled element using new Teflon gasket & RTF sealant.
> > >>3) Fired up machine & tripped the circuit.
> > >>4) Disconnected element & everything else worked fine.
> > >>5) Reconnected element & tripped circuit.
>
> > >>So the problem IS in the element that worked fine before I fixed it. Any
> > >>suggestions on what went wrong?
>
> Is it possible that the heating element itself is shorted out inside?
> Continuity across the connections (rather than to earth) would
> indicate this.
>
> John

mmm, to shout out internally it shorts first to the outer sheath.



 
Date: 11 Mar 2007 05:31:36
From: chardinej
Subject: Re: Q: Nuova Simonelli trouble shooting (redux)
On 11, 12:39 am, "Robert Harmon" <r_h_har...@Zhotmail.com > wrote:
> Hmmm, sounds reasonable. Uh oh, no dead short detected here - no continuity
> between terminals & ground. Let's compare to the element on my Bunn ES-1A.
> Yep, identical readings, so I'm not sure what to do now. The machine did get
> pretty wet last week but everything is dry now. Only the element leads were
> disconnected so it has to be here somewhere. Switching from a fiber gasket
> to a silicone/RTV combo was the only mod made. This one's got me baffled.
>
> I do have another Nuova Simonelli waiting for parts so maybe I'll swap out
> the elements & see what I get.
> --
> Robert (Gig 'em!) Harmonhttp://tinyurl.com/pou2yhttp://tinyurl.com/psfobhttp://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
>
> "sprsso" <acrit...@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
>
> news:rl66v21dtp7brhb11o8jbods0da5jdr55u@4ax.com...
>
>
>
> > Check continuity to ground from the element terminals. With wires both
> > connected and not. One thing I've encountered more than once is that
> > if a mineral encrustation permeates the sheath surrounding the element
> > coil, descaling removes the insulating effect that the scale provides
> > between the coil and water. Or the sheathing could have been nicked
> > removing or replacing the element. In any event you have a dead short
> > to ground somewhere in heating circuit. Good luck....al
>
> > On Sat, 10 2007 20:03:52 GMT, "Robert Harmon"
> > <r_h_har...@Zhotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>OK, I've found the blockage keeping the autofill from working. While I was
> >>locating & fixing that I had a brain fart - take the boiler apart &
> >>descale
> >>*everything*. No problem: EXCEPT (isn't there always one of those?) now
> >>the
> >>heating element causes the circuit to trip. It's probably something simple
> >>or it may be electrolysis caused enough metal to build up to short the
> >>posts. ???
>
> >>Here's what I did;
> >>1) Descaled elements in hot acidic solution, keeping water level below
> >>exterior edge of mounting flange - so no plating probably occurred there.
> >>2) Reinstalled element using new Teflon gasket & RTF sealant.
> >>3) Fired up machine & tripped the circuit.
> >>4) Disconnected element & everything else worked fine.
> >>5) Reconnected element & tripped circuit.
>
> >>So the problem IS in the element that worked fine before I fixed it. Any
> >>suggestions on what went wrong?

Is it possible that the heating element itself is shorted out inside?
Continuity across the connections (rather than to earth) would
indicate this.

John



 
Date: 10 Mar 2007 15:58:55
From: sprsso
Subject: Re: Q: Nuova Simonelli trouble shooting (redux)


Check continuity to ground from the element terminals. With wires both
connected and not. One thing I've encountered more than once is that
if a mineral encrustation permeates the sheath surrounding the element
coil, descaling removes the insulating effect that the scale provides
between the coil and water. Or the sheathing could have been nicked
removing or replacing the element. In any event you have a dead short
to ground somewhere in heating circuit. Good luck....al


On Sat, 10 2007 20:03:52 GMT, "Robert Harmon"
<r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com > wrote:

>OK, I've found the blockage keeping the autofill from working. While I was
>locating & fixing that I had a brain fart - take the boiler apart & descale
>*everything*. No problem: EXCEPT (isn't there always one of those?) now the
>heating element causes the circuit to trip. It's probably something simple
>or it may be electrolysis caused enough metal to build up to short the
>posts. ???
>
>Here's what I did;
>1) Descaled elements in hot acidic solution, keeping water level below
>exterior edge of mounting flange - so no plating probably occurred there.
>2) Reinstalled element using new Teflon gasket & RTF sealant.
>3) Fired up machine & tripped the circuit.
>4) Disconnected element & everything else worked fine.
>5) Reconnected element & tripped circuit.
>
>So the problem IS in the element that worked fine before I fixed it. Any
>suggestions on what went wrong?



  
Date: 11 Mar 2007 02:39:37
From: Robert Harmon
Subject: Re: Q: Nuova Simonelli trouble shooting (redux)
Hmmm, sounds reasonable. Uh oh, no dead short detected here - no continuity
between terminals & ground. Let's compare to the element on my Bunn ES-1A.
Yep, identical readings, so I'm not sure what to do now. The machine did get
pretty wet last week but everything is dry now. Only the element leads were
disconnected so it has to be here somewhere. Switching from a fiber gasket
to a silicone/RTV combo was the only mod made. This one's got me baffled.

I do have another Nuova Simonelli waiting for parts so maybe I'll swap out
the elements & see what I get.
--
Robert (Gig 'em!) Harmon
http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
http://tinyurl.com/psfob
http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r

"sprsso" <acritzer@cfl.rr.com > wrote in message
news:rl66v21dtp7brhb11o8jbods0da5jdr55u@4ax.com...
>
>
> Check continuity to ground from the element terminals. With wires both
> connected and not. One thing I've encountered more than once is that
> if a mineral encrustation permeates the sheath surrounding the element
> coil, descaling removes the insulating effect that the scale provides
> between the coil and water. Or the sheathing could have been nicked
> removing or replacing the element. In any event you have a dead short
> to ground somewhere in heating circuit. Good luck....al
>
>
> On Sat, 10 2007 20:03:52 GMT, "Robert Harmon"
> <r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>OK, I've found the blockage keeping the autofill from working. While I was
>>locating & fixing that I had a brain fart - take the boiler apart &
>>descale
>>*everything*. No problem: EXCEPT (isn't there always one of those?) now
>>the
>>heating element causes the circuit to trip. It's probably something simple
>>or it may be electrolysis caused enough metal to build up to short the
>>posts. ???
>>
>>Here's what I did;
>>1) Descaled elements in hot acidic solution, keeping water level below
>>exterior edge of mounting flange - so no plating probably occurred there.
>>2) Reinstalled element using new Teflon gasket & RTF sealant.
>>3) Fired up machine & tripped the circuit.
>>4) Disconnected element & everything else worked fine.
>>5) Reconnected element & tripped circuit.
>>
>>So the problem IS in the element that worked fine before I fixed it. Any
>>suggestions on what went wrong?
>




 
Date: 10 Mar 2007 15:53:41
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Nuova Simonelli trouble shooting (redux)
yup.

Like tearing apart nearly new grinders to "clean" them.

or other such.

dave

www.hitechespresso.com

"Robert Harmon" <r_h_harmon@Zhotmail.com > wrote in message
news:IaEIh.8477$PL.4828@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> OK, I've found the blockage keeping the autofill from working. While I was
> locating & fixing that I had a brain fart - take the boiler apart &
> descale *everything*. No problem: EXCEPT (isn't there always one of
> those?) now the heating element causes the circuit to trip. It's probably
> something simple or it may be electrolysis caused enough metal to build up
> to short the posts. ???
>
> Here's what I did;
> 1) Descaled elements in hot acidic solution, keeping water level below
> exterior edge of mounting flange - so no plating probably occurred there.
> 2) Reinstalled element using new Teflon gasket & RTF sealant.
> 3) Fired up machine & tripped the circuit.
> 4) Disconnected element & everything else worked fine.
> 5) Reconnected element & tripped circuit.
>
> So the problem IS in the element that worked fine before I fixed it. Any
> suggestions on what went wrong?
> --
> Robert (Old rule, too often ignored: If it ain't broke, don't fix it!)
> Harmon
> http://tinyurl.com/pou2y
> http://tinyurl.com/psfob
> http://tinyurl.com/fkd6r
>