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Main
Date: 12 Mar 2007 07:59:50
From: gscace
Subject: Repair of idiotic plastic pipe implementation on the Brewtus
|
Hi:
A friend of mine was given a Brewtus that had been back to the Brewtus
dealer 4 times for repair of the plastic pipe connecting the feedwater
preheat (in the steam boiler) to the inlet connection to the brew
boiler. The manufacturer uses a plastic pipe, which appears to end in
a flare of some sort. The flared tube fits over an internal ferrule
in the fitting to which the plastic tube is attached. The flare is
captured by a nut that compresses the flare against a sealing surface
on the fitting. The design seems pretty sketchy to me because the nut
imparts compressive load to a pretty thin flare. There's gotta be
stress concentration in the corner of the flare, and in fact the
failure of the tube occurred precisely at that point.
I discovered that 1/4 inch copper refrigeration tubing fits over the
internal ferrule just about perfectly. I also discovered that a
standard SAE flaring tool made a flare that fit the internal
dimensions of the nut just about perfectly as well. The nut itself
needed the hole diameter opened up from 6mm to slightly over 1/4 inch
(I used a letter F drill, which is .257" diameter). The hole should
prolly get chamfered on the inside by a countersink.
We replaced the plastic piece of feces with copper refrigeration
tubing. The system was leak tight immediately. We then fired up the
machine for an hour to look for leaks. Finding none, we covered its
nether parts with stainless steel clothing and celebrated our
adventure by making coffee.
I do have to say that the service guys at the Brewtus dealer deserve
to get called out on this. The part is pretty lame to begin with, but
it's really inexcusable for that machine to have gone back 4 times for
the same repair. They are pros who I'm sure have seen this problem
before on other machines. Perhaps they have something to add here
that would help folks have confidence in their commitment to customer
service?
Oh, by the way, I liked the coffee it made. Functionally it's pretty
solid, but it could use more steam power. It's very easy to use.
-Greg
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|
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Date: 12 Mar 2007 19:38:12
From:
Subject: Re: Repair of idiotic plastic pipe implementation on the Brewtus
|
On 12, 3:53 pm, "Jack Denver" <nunuv...@netscape.net > wrote:
> Flaring plastic sound pretty lame. For that matter, using plastic to carry
> hot water sounds lame also. How much would it have cost them at the factory
> to use 6 inches of copper tubing for this line?
>
> OTOH, a lot of home machines use nylon tubing with compression fittngs for
> cold water. I've also used this tubing with compression fittings to run
> water lines to filters, etc. I must say that it is easier to work with (more
> flexible) than copper. The traditional compression fittings (which include
> an extra metal insert when used with plastic) appear to work very well and
> I've never had any leaks once they were tightened down. I can't say the
> same thing for the "John Guest" quick connect type fittings which rely on a
> o-ring for seal - it's only a matter of time befor the o-ring rots, while
> compression gives a metal on metal seal that should be good for life once
> tightened.
>
> Flare tubing (in copper) is very common in the auto industry where it's used
> for brake lines, etc. where pressures are extremely high. Again, if
> properly done it's a leakproof metal on metal seal. I've never heard of
> plastic being flared, probably for good reason.
>
> As you say, the dealer should have tried another approach after the 2nd
> failure. One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over
> and expecting a different result.
>
> "gscace" <gregory.sc...@nist.gov> wrote in message
>
> news:1173711590.574552.132720@64g2000cwx.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > Hi:
>
> > A friend of mine was given a Brewtus that had been back to the Brewtus
> > dealer 4 times for repair of the plastic pipe connecting the feedwater
> > preheat (in the steam boiler) to the inlet connection to the brew
> > boiler. The manufacturer uses a plastic pipe, which appears to end in
> > a flare of some sort. The flared tube fits over an internal ferrule
> > in the fitting to which the plastic tube is attached. The flare is
> > captured by a nut that compresses the flare against a sealing surface
> > on the fitting. The design seems pretty sketchy to me because the nut
> > imparts compressive load to a pretty thin flare. There's gotta be
> > stress concentration in the corner of the flare, and in fact the
> > failure of the tube occurred precisely at that point.
>
> > I discovered that 1/4 inch copper refrigeration tubing fits over the
> > internal ferrule just about perfectly. I also discovered that a
> > standard SAE flaring tool made a flare that fit the internal
> > dimensions of the nut just about perfectly as well. The nut itself
> > needed the hole diameter opened up from 6mm to slightly over 1/4 inch
> > (I used a letter F drill, which is .257" diameter). The hole should
> > prolly get chamfered on the inside by a countersink.
>
> > We replaced the plastic piece of feces with copper refrigeration
> > tubing. The system was leak tight immediately. We then fired up the
> > machine for an hour to look for leaks. Finding none, we covered its
> > nether parts with stainless steel clothing and celebrated our
> > adventure by making coffee.
>
> > I do have to say that the service guys at the Brewtus dealer deserve
> > to get called out on this. The part is pretty lame to begin with, but
> > it's really inexcusable for that machine to have gone back 4 times for
> > the same repair. They are pros who I'm sure have seen this problem
> > before on other machines. Perhaps they have something to add here
> > that would help folks have confidence in their commitment to customer
> > service?
>
> > Oh, by the way, I liked the coffee it made. Functionally it's pretty
> > solid, but it could use more steam power. It's very easy to use.
>
> > -Greg- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
The high pressure plastic tube in the machine. Again this stuff works
very well indeed,
no problem there....but if during assembly they (Expobar) over tighten
the fittings, it can
"tear" the self formed flange at the end of the tube and cause it to
leak, or pop out of its
holder. However, one of the easiest fixes in the industry. If you come
up against
a leaky high pressure plastic tube joint, simply undo it, trim of 1mm
of the tube
(the self formed flange bit, you will probably see the tear), replace
on the fitting
and retighten. As you tighten the fitting will reshape (cold form) the
end of the
tube and it autoimatically forms it's own seal. Just don't overtighten
it (no
thread sealants of any kind are needed, or should be used).
Above taken from my OPV article, if the dealer had done the work
correcctly he would not have had the same problem 4 times over. This
stuff is used in the QM Andreja Premium (and some Isomacs) with no
problems and is ideally suited to the temperatures and pressures
involved. It is also used in non espresso machine applications has
many advantages.
1. Chemical resistance
2. Flexibility (especially when a loop is incoporated)
3. long life
4. Very cheap and easy to replace
But prehaps not ideal for the "ham fisted" engineer
|
| |
Date: 13 Mar 2007 07:26:28
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Repair of idiotic plastic pipe implementation on the Brewtus
|
On 13, 9:17 am, "Karl" <karlmiltonr...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On 12, 7:45 pm, "Miss Penny" <penny...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 12, 2:53 pm, "Karl" <karlmiltonr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On 12, 1:54 pm, "gscace" <gregory.sc...@nist.gov> wrote:
>
> > > > > > -Greg
>
> > > > > Ah, the Brewtus!
>
> > > > > tsk.
>
> > > > > Dave
>
> > > > Ah, the Brewtus what? Components-wise it seems a very great amount of
> > > > bang for the buck. It's got a spring-loaded, mechanically actuated
> > > > e-61 clone group, ulka pump, some sort of controller whose user
> > > > interface is waay better than the La Spaz. I stuck a thermofilter
> > > > on it, and learned that the thermosyphon is tuned reasonably well
> > > > enough, so that the thing only needs about a 2 ounce warming shot from
> > > > idle, which pretty much of the same order as the best twin-boiler
> > > > machines. Both intrashot and intershot thermal stability are way
> > > > better than any other prosumer e-61 clone that I've played with.
> > > > The problem that I see is that the idiots at Expobar did the tubing on
> > > > the cheap. It's also the dealer / importer for enabling that and for
> > > > the crappy service.
>
> > > > So what's up, Dave? Did I miss something about the machine?
>
> > > > -Greg
> > > > -Greg
>
> > > Greg, all you missed was that Daveb doesn't sell them. Last I heard,
> > > he had never even seen one.
>
> > > As you may recall, he used to have similar comments about all HE
> > > machines . . . until he started selling them.
>
> > > Thanks for your very helpful analysis of an apparent Brewtus issue,
> > > and for providing the solution. My Brewtus II has worked flawlessly
> > > for about 16 months now, and makes great espresso, shot after shot,
> > > but if I have a leak in the feedwater pipe, I'll know where to look
> > > for the problem, thanks to your posting.
>
> > > Karl
>
> > snide, 'karl' as expected. No, I do not sell brutus, and there is
> > NO way I ever would.
>
> > And 'karl', I do not, and WILL NOT ever sell STOCK HX machines! If
> > you don't know why, just the 'pressurestat' alone should be reason
> > enuf.
>
> > Can I put you in touch with some of my happy modded HX owners?
>
> > Davewww.hitechespresso.com
>
> There you go again, Daveb, forgetting which alias (of your many) you
> are using.
>
> Karl "at least I know my name" Rice
|
| |
Date: 13 Mar 2007 07:25:48
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Repair of idiotic plastic pipe implementation on the Brewtus
|
heh heh, no but I am working on that.
I 'pid'ed their machines and used a stainless TC in the boiler water.
Even the single boiler QM Alexia (Silvia on steroids) owners love the
rig.
dave
www.hitechespresso.com
|
| |
Date: 13 Mar 2007 06:17:11
From: Karl
Subject: Re: Repair of idiotic plastic pipe implementation on the Brewtus
|
On 12, 7:45 pm, "Miss Penny" <penny...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On 12, 2:53 pm, "Karl" <karlmiltonr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 12, 1:54 pm, "gscace" <gregory.sc...@nist.gov> wrote:
>
> > > > > -Greg
>
> > > > Ah, the Brewtus!
>
> > > > tsk.
>
> > > > Dave
>
> > > Ah, the Brewtus what? Components-wise it seems a very great amount of
> > > bang for the buck. It's got a spring-loaded, mechanically actuated
> > > e-61 clone group, ulka pump, some sort of controller whose user
> > > interface is waay better than the La Spaz. I stuck a thermofilter
> > > on it, and learned that the thermosyphon is tuned reasonably well
> > > enough, so that the thing only needs about a 2 ounce warming shot from
> > > idle, which pretty much of the same order as the best twin-boiler
> > > machines. Both intrashot and intershot thermal stability are way
> > > better than any other prosumer e-61 clone that I've played with.
> > > The problem that I see is that the idiots at Expobar did the tubing on
> > > the cheap. It's also the dealer / importer for enabling that and for
> > > the crappy service.
>
> > > So what's up, Dave? Did I miss something about the machine?
>
> > > -Greg
> > > -Greg
>
> > Greg, all you missed was that Daveb doesn't sell them. Last I heard,
> > he had never even seen one.
>
> > As you may recall, he used to have similar comments about all HE
> > machines . . . until he started selling them.
>
> > Thanks for your very helpful analysis of an apparent Brewtus issue,
> > and for providing the solution. My Brewtus II has worked flawlessly
> > for about 16 months now, and makes great espresso, shot after shot,
> > but if I have a leak in the feedwater pipe, I'll know where to look
> > for the problem, thanks to your posting.
>
> > Karl
>
> snide, 'karl' as expected. No, I do not sell brutus, and there is
> NO way I ever would.
>
> And 'karl', I do not, and WILL NOT ever sell STOCK HX machines! If
> you don't know why, just the 'pressurestat' alone should be reason
> enuf.
>
> Can I put you in touch with some of my happy modded HX owners?
>
> Davewww.hitechespresso.com
There you go again, Daveb, forgetting which alias (of your many) you
are using.
Karl "at least I know my name" Rice
|
| |
Date: 13 Mar 2007 05:27:17
From: gscace
Subject: Re: Repair of idiotic plastic pipe implementation on the Brewtus
|
On 12, 10:34 pm, "Dave" <davecor...@yahoo.co.uk > wrote:
> On 12 , 15:53, "Jack Denver" <nunuv...@netscape.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Flaring plastic sound pretty lame. For that matter, using plastic to carry
> > hot water sounds lame also. How much would it have cost them at the factory
> > to use 6 inches of copper tubing for this line?
>
> > OTOH, a lot of home machines use nylon tubing with compression fittngs for
> > cold water. I've also used this tubing with compression fittings to run
> > water lines to filters, etc. I must say that it is easier to work with (more
> > flexible) than copper. The traditional compression fittings (which include
> > an extra metal insert when used with plastic) appear to work very well and
> > I've never had any leaks once they were tightened down. I can't say the
> > same thing for the "John Guest" quick connect type fittings which rely on a
> > o-ring for seal - it's only a matter of time befor the o-ring rots, while
> > compression gives a metal on metal seal that should be good for life once
> > tightened.
>
> > Flare tubing (in copper) is very common in the auto industry where it's used
> > for brake lines, etc. where pressures are extremely high. Again, if
> > properly done it's a leakproof metal on metal seal. I've never heard of
> > plastic being flared, probably for good reason.
>
> > As you say, the dealer should have tried another approach after the 2nd
> > failure. One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over
> > and expecting a different result.
>
> > "gscace" <gregory.sc...@nist.gov> wrote in message
>
> >news:1173711590.574552.132720@64g2000cwx.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > Hi:
>
> > > A friend of mine was given a Brewtus that had been back to the Brewtus
> > > dealer 4 times for repair of the plastic pipe connecting the feedwater
> > > preheat (in the steam boiler) to the inlet connection to the brew
> > > boiler. The manufacturer uses a plastic pipe, which appears to end in
> > > a flare of some sort. The flared tube fits over an internal ferrule
> > > in the fitting to which the plastic tube is attached. The flare is
> > > captured by a nut that compresses the flare against a sealing surface
> > > on the fitting. The design seems pretty sketchy to me because the nut
> > > imparts compressive load to a pretty thin flare. There's gotta be
> > > stress concentration in the corner of the flare, and in fact the
> > > failure of the tube occurred precisely at that point.
>
> > > I discovered that 1/4 inch copper refrigeration tubing fits over the
> > > internal ferrule just about perfectly. I also discovered that a
> > > standard SAE flaring tool made a flare that fit the internal
> > > dimensions of the nut just about perfectly as well. The nut itself
> > > needed the hole diameter opened up from 6mm to slightly over 1/4 inch
> > > (I used a letter F drill, which is .257" diameter). The hole should
> > > prolly get chamfered on the inside by a countersink.
>
> > > We replaced the plastic piece of feces with copper refrigeration
> > > tubing. The system was leak tight immediately. We then fired up the
> > > machine for an hour to look for leaks. Finding none, we covered its
> > > nether parts with stainless steel clothing and celebrated our
> > > adventure by making coffee.
>
> > > I do have to say that the service guys at the Brewtus dealer deserve
> > > to get called out on this. The part is pretty lame to begin with, but
> > > it's really inexcusable for that machine to have gone back 4 times for
> > > the same repair. They are pros who I'm sure have seen this problem
> > > before on other machines. Perhaps they have something to add here
> > > that would help folks have confidence in their commitment to customer
> > > service?
>
> > > Oh, by the way, I liked the coffee it made. Functionally it's pretty
> > > solid, but it could use more steam power. It's very easy to use.
>
> > > -Greg- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> The high pressure plastic tube in the machine. Again this stuff works
> very well indeed,
> no problem there....but if during assembly they (Expobar) over tighten
> the fittings, it can
> "tear" the self formed flange at the end of the tube and cause it to
> leak, or pop out of its
> holder. However, one of the easiest fixes in the industry. If you come
> up against
> a leaky high pressure plastic tube joint, simply undo it, trim of 1mm
> of the tube
> (the self formed flange bit, you will probably see the tear), replace
> on the fitting
> and retighten. As you tighten the fitting will reshape (cold form) the
> end of the
> tube and it autoimatically forms it's own seal. Just don't overtighten
> it (no
> thread sealants of any kind are needed, or should be used).
>
> Above taken from my OPV article, if the dealer had done the work
> correcctly he would not have had the same problem 4 times over. This
> stuff is used in the QM Andreja Premium (and some Isomacs) with no
> problems and is ideally suited to the temperatures and pressures
> involved. It is also used in non espresso machine applications has
> many advantages.
>
> 1. Chemical resistance
> 2. Flexibility (especially when a loop is incoporated)
> 3. long life
> 4. Very cheap and easy to replace
>
> But prehaps not ideal for the "ham fisted" engineer
Perhaps this is true and this machine is anomalous, but it didn't
appear to me that the piping involved was gonna do any cold-flowing
given that the pipe easily slid over the metal "tit", and I couldn't
see how the nut was gonna squish down on the pipe. I suspect that the
guy who attempted repair of this machine did precisely what you state,
but wasn't observant and didn't test the machine afterward. FWIW, I
agree with you srt the use of plastic tubing and I'm completely
comfortable with the correct use of plastic tubing in coffee
machines. It saves time, pain in the ass in bending up special tubing
shapes, and it's very clean inside. It's just gotta be executed
correctly.
-Greg
|
| |
Date: 12 Mar 2007 21:52:44
From: Dave
Subject: Re: Repair of idiotic plastic pipe implementation on the Brewtus
|
On 12 , 15:53, "Jack Denver" <nunuv...@netscape.net > wrote:
> Flaring plastic sound pretty lame. For that matter, using plastic to carry
> hot water sounds lame also. How much would it have cost them at the factory
> to use 6 inches of copper tubing for this line?
>
> OTOH, a lot of home machines use nylon tubing with compression fittngs for
> cold water. I've also used this tubing with compression fittings to run
> water lines to filters, etc. I must say that it is easier to work with (more
> flexible) than copper. The traditional compression fittings (which include
> an extra metal insert when used with plastic) appear to work very well and
> I've never had any leaks once they were tightened down. I can't say the
> same thing for the "John Guest" quick connect type fittings which rely on a
> o-ring for seal - it's only a matter of time befor the o-ring rots, while
> compression gives a metal on metal seal that should be good for life once
> tightened.
>
> Flare tubing (in copper) is very common in the auto industry where it's used
> for brake lines, etc. where pressures are extremely high. Again, if
> properly done it's a leakproof metal on metal seal. I've never heard of
> plastic being flared, probably for good reason.
>
> As you say, the dealer should have tried another approach after the 2nd
> failure. One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over
> and expecting a different result.
>
> "gscace" <gregory.sc...@nist.gov> wrote in message
>
> news:1173711590.574552.132720@64g2000cwx.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > Hi:
>
> > A friend of mine was given a Brewtus that had been back to the Brewtus
> > dealer 4 times for repair of the plastic pipe connecting the feedwater
> > preheat (in the steam boiler) to the inlet connection to the brew
> > boiler. The manufacturer uses a plastic pipe, which appears to end in
> > a flare of some sort. The flared tube fits over an internal ferrule
> > in the fitting to which the plastic tube is attached. The flare is
> > captured by a nut that compresses the flare against a sealing surface
> > on the fitting. The design seems pretty sketchy to me because the nut
> > imparts compressive load to a pretty thin flare. There's gotta be
> > stress concentration in the corner of the flare, and in fact the
> > failure of the tube occurred precisely at that point.
>
> > I discovered that 1/4 inch copper refrigeration tubing fits over the
> > internal ferrule just about perfectly. I also discovered that a
> > standard SAE flaring tool made a flare that fit the internal
> > dimensions of the nut just about perfectly as well. The nut itself
> > needed the hole diameter opened up from 6mm to slightly over 1/4 inch
> > (I used a letter F drill, which is .257" diameter). The hole should
> > prolly get chamfered on the inside by a countersink.
>
> > We replaced the plastic piece of feces with copper refrigeration
> > tubing. The system was leak tight immediately. We then fired up the
> > machine for an hour to look for leaks. Finding none, we covered its
> > nether parts with stainless steel clothing and celebrated our
> > adventure by making coffee.
>
> > I do have to say that the service guys at the Brewtus dealer deserve
> > to get called out on this. The part is pretty lame to begin with, but
> > it's really inexcusable for that machine to have gone back 4 times for
> > the same repair. They are pros who I'm sure have seen this problem
> > before on other machines. Perhaps they have something to add here
> > that would help folks have confidence in their commitment to customer
> > service?
>
> > Oh, by the way, I liked the coffee it made. Functionally it's pretty
> > solid, but it could use more steam power. It's very easy to use.
>
> > -Greg- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
The high pressure plastic tube in the machine. Again this stuff works
very well indeed,
no problem there....but if during assembly they (Expobar) over tighten
the fittings, it can
"tear" the self formed flange at the end of the tube and cause it to
leak, or pop out of its
holder. However, one of the easiest fixes in the industry. If you come
up against
a leaky high pressure plastic tube joint, simply undo it, trim of 1mm
of the tube
(the self formed flange bit, you will probably see the tear), replace
on the fitting
and retighten. As you tighten the fitting will reshape (cold form) the
end of the
tube and it autoimatically forms it's own seal. Just don't overtighten
it (no
thread sealants of any kind are needed, or should be used).
An extract above from an article I wrote on the OPV. This high
pressure/hgh temperature tubing is quite common in hot water boilers
and other non coffee related applications. It is also used in the
Quickmill Andreja Premium, with no problems I know of. If a dealer
repaired it 4 times and kept having the same problem IMHO they are not
"doing it right".
Other advantages of the plastic/nylon tube are:
1. Not affected by vibration
2. Does not easily become brittle or age
3. When it does need replacing it's very very cheap and very very easy
to do.
4. The flexibility means component alignment is not critical
(especially flexible with a loop in the tubing)
5. Unnafected by descalers
Sure, prehaps not a product for the "ham fisted" engineer, but a fine
product
|
| |
Date: 12 Mar 2007 20:34:07
From: Dave
Subject: Re: Repair of idiotic plastic pipe implementation on the Brewtus
|
On 12 , 15:53, "Jack Denver" <nunuv...@netscape.net > wrote:
> Flaring plastic sound pretty lame. For that matter, using plastic to carry
> hot water sounds lame also. How much would it have cost them at the factory
> to use 6 inches of copper tubing for this line?
>
> OTOH, a lot of home machines use nylon tubing with compression fittngs for
> cold water. I've also used this tubing with compression fittings to run
> water lines to filters, etc. I must say that it is easier to work with (more
> flexible) than copper. The traditional compression fittings (which include
> an extra metal insert when used with plastic) appear to work very well and
> I've never had any leaks once they were tightened down. I can't say the
> same thing for the "John Guest" quick connect type fittings which rely on a
> o-ring for seal - it's only a matter of time befor the o-ring rots, while
> compression gives a metal on metal seal that should be good for life once
> tightened.
>
> Flare tubing (in copper) is very common in the auto industry where it's used
> for brake lines, etc. where pressures are extremely high. Again, if
> properly done it's a leakproof metal on metal seal. I've never heard of
> plastic being flared, probably for good reason.
>
> As you say, the dealer should have tried another approach after the 2nd
> failure. One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over
> and expecting a different result.
>
> "gscace" <gregory.sc...@nist.gov> wrote in message
>
> news:1173711590.574552.132720@64g2000cwx.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > Hi:
>
> > A friend of mine was given a Brewtus that had been back to the Brewtus
> > dealer 4 times for repair of the plastic pipe connecting the feedwater
> > preheat (in the steam boiler) to the inlet connection to the brew
> > boiler. The manufacturer uses a plastic pipe, which appears to end in
> > a flare of some sort. The flared tube fits over an internal ferrule
> > in the fitting to which the plastic tube is attached. The flare is
> > captured by a nut that compresses the flare against a sealing surface
> > on the fitting. The design seems pretty sketchy to me because the nut
> > imparts compressive load to a pretty thin flare. There's gotta be
> > stress concentration in the corner of the flare, and in fact the
> > failure of the tube occurred precisely at that point.
>
> > I discovered that 1/4 inch copper refrigeration tubing fits over the
> > internal ferrule just about perfectly. I also discovered that a
> > standard SAE flaring tool made a flare that fit the internal
> > dimensions of the nut just about perfectly as well. The nut itself
> > needed the hole diameter opened up from 6mm to slightly over 1/4 inch
> > (I used a letter F drill, which is .257" diameter). The hole should
> > prolly get chamfered on the inside by a countersink.
>
> > We replaced the plastic piece of feces with copper refrigeration
> > tubing. The system was leak tight immediately. We then fired up the
> > machine for an hour to look for leaks. Finding none, we covered its
> > nether parts with stainless steel clothing and celebrated our
> > adventure by making coffee.
>
> > I do have to say that the service guys at the Brewtus dealer deserve
> > to get called out on this. The part is pretty lame to begin with, but
> > it's really inexcusable for that machine to have gone back 4 times for
> > the same repair. They are pros who I'm sure have seen this problem
> > before on other machines. Perhaps they have something to add here
> > that would help folks have confidence in their commitment to customer
> > service?
>
> > Oh, by the way, I liked the coffee it made. Functionally it's pretty
> > solid, but it could use more steam power. It's very easy to use.
>
> > -Greg- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
The high pressure plastic tube in the machine. Again this stuff works
very well indeed,
no problem there....but if during assembly they (Expobar) over tighten
the fittings, it can
"tear" the self formed flange at the end of the tube and cause it to
leak, or pop out of its
holder. However, one of the easiest fixes in the industry. If you come
up against
a leaky high pressure plastic tube joint, simply undo it, trim of 1mm
of the tube
(the self formed flange bit, you will probably see the tear), replace
on the fitting
and retighten. As you tighten the fitting will reshape (cold form) the
end of the
tube and it autoimatically forms it's own seal. Just don't overtighten
it (no
thread sealants of any kind are needed, or should be used).
Above taken from my OPV article, if the dealer had done the work
correcctly he would not have had the same problem 4 times over. This
stuff is used in the QM Andreja Premium (and some Isomacs) with no
problems and is ideally suited to the temperatures and pressures
involved. It is also used in non espresso machine applications has
many advantages.
1. Chemical resistance
2. Flexibility (especially when a loop is incoporated)
3. long life
4. Very cheap and easy to replace
But prehaps not ideal for the "ham fisted" engineer
|
| |
Date: 12 Mar 2007 16:52:30
From: Miss Penny
Subject: Re: Repair of idiotic plastic pipe implementation on the Brewtus
|
On 12, 1:54 pm, "gscace" <gregory.sc...@nist.gov > wrote:
> > > -Greg
>
> > Ah, the Brewtus!
>
> > tsk.
>
> > Dave
>
> Ah, the Brewtus what? Components-wise it seems a very great amount of
> bang for the buck. It's got a spring-loaded, mechanically actuated
> e-61 clone group, ulka pump, some sort of controller whose user
> interface is waay better than the La Spaz. I stuck a thermofilter
> on it, and learned that the thermosyphon is tuned reasonably well
> enough, so that the thing only needs about a 2 ounce warming shot from
> idle, which pretty much of the same order as the best twin-boiler
> machines. Both intrashot and intershot thermal stability are way
> better than any other prosumer e-61 clone that I've played with.
> The problem that I see is that the idiots at Expobar did the tubing on
> the cheap. It's also the dealer / importer for enabling that and for
> the crappy service.
>
> So what's up, Dave? Did I miss something about the machine?
>
> -Greg
> -Greg
Not having any hands on with B, perhaps the hose is the same as that
used by gaggia and many others? works well there!
I really look way beyond the unit itself to the parts, service and
support!
Of which there are many many anecdotes of disappointment in all those
areas.
A sample for the brutus group:
" . . . . Judging by the various posts here and on other forums, XXX
suffered heavy criticism from some owners for poor customer service &
poor workmanship on the Brewtus II. The long awaited rotary pump for
the Brewtus is still in the works, -- So I hear -- but so it was in
2005. As to XXX, 2007 is a new year and an opportunity to turn around
and return to quality and customer
service. "
Abe
And I am sure there are many happy brutus owners out there -- good for
them.
regards,
Dave
www.hitechespresso.com
|
| |
Date: 12 Mar 2007 16:45:54
From: Miss Penny
Subject: Re: Repair of idiotic plastic pipe implementation on the Brewtus
|
On 12, 2:53 pm, "Karl" <karlmiltonr...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On 12, 1:54 pm, "gscace" <gregory.sc...@nist.gov> wrote:
>
>
>
> > > > -Greg
>
> > > Ah, the Brewtus!
>
> > > tsk.
>
> > > Dave
>
> > Ah, the Brewtus what? Components-wise it seems a very great amount of
> > bang for the buck. It's got a spring-loaded, mechanically actuated
> > e-61 clone group, ulka pump, some sort of controller whose user
> > interface is waay better than the La Spaz. I stuck a thermofilter
> > on it, and learned that the thermosyphon is tuned reasonably well
> > enough, so that the thing only needs about a 2 ounce warming shot from
> > idle, which pretty much of the same order as the best twin-boiler
> > machines. Both intrashot and intershot thermal stability are way
> > better than any other prosumer e-61 clone that I've played with.
> > The problem that I see is that the idiots at Expobar did the tubing on
> > the cheap. It's also the dealer / importer for enabling that and for
> > the crappy service.
>
> > So what's up, Dave? Did I miss something about the machine?
>
> > -Greg
> > -Greg
>
> Greg, all you missed was that Daveb doesn't sell them. Last I heard,
> he had never even seen one.
>
> As you may recall, he used to have similar comments about all HE
> machines . . . until he started selling them.
>
> Thanks for your very helpful analysis of an apparent Brewtus issue,
> and for providing the solution. My Brewtus II has worked flawlessly
> for about 16 months now, and makes great espresso, shot after shot,
> but if I have a leak in the feedwater pipe, I'll know where to look
> for the problem, thanks to your posting.
>
> Karl
snide, 'karl' as expected. No, I do not sell brutus, and there is
NO way I ever would.
And 'karl', I do not, and WILL NOT ever sell STOCK HX machines! If
you don't know why, just the 'pressurestat' alone should be reason
enuf.
Can I put you in touch with some of my happy modded HX owners?
Dave
www.hitechespresso.com
|
| |
Date: 12 Mar 2007 16:41:23
From: Miss Penny
Subject: Re: Repair of idiotic plastic pipe implementation on the Brewtus
|
On 12, 2:53 pm, "Karl" <karlmiltonr...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On 12, 1:54 pm, "gscace" <gregory.sc...@nist.gov> wrote:
>
>
>
> > > > -Greg
>
> > > Ah, the Brewtus!
>
> > > tsk.
>
> > > Dave
>
> > Ah, the Brewtus what? Components-wise it seems a very great amount of
> > bang for the buck. It's got a spring-loaded, mechanically actuated
> > e-61 clone group, ulka pump, some sort of controller whose user
> > interface is waay better than the La Spaz. I stuck a thermofilter
> > on it, and learned that the thermosyphon is tuned reasonably well
> > enough, so that the thing only needs about a 2 ounce warming shot from
> > idle, which pretty much of the same order as the best twin-boiler
> > machines. Both intrashot and intershot thermal stability are way
> > better than any other prosumer e-61 clone that I've played with.
> > The problem that I see is that the idiots at Expobar did the tubing on
> > the cheap. It's also the dealer / importer for enabling that and for
> > the crappy service.
>
> > So what's up, Dave? Did I miss something about the machine?
>
> > -Greg
> > -Greg
>
> Greg, all you missed was that Daveb doesn't sell them. Last I heard,
> he had never even seen one.
>
> As you may recall, he used to have similar comments about all HE
> machines . . . until he started selling them.
>
> Thanks for your very helpful analysis of an apparent Brewtus issue,
> and for providing the solution. My Brewtus II has worked flawlessly
> for about 16 months now, and makes great espresso, shot after shot,
> but if I have a leak in the feedwater pipe, I'll know where to look
> for the problem, thanks to your posting.
>
> Karl
snide, 'karl' as expected. No, I do not sell brutus, and there is
NO way I ever would.
And 'karl', I do not, and WILL NOT ever sell STOCK HX machines! If
you don't know why, just the 'pressurestat' alone should be reason
enuf.
Can I put you in touch with some of my happy modded HX owners?
Dave
www.hitechespresso.com
|
| | |
Date: 13 Mar 2007 10:11:28
From: D. Ross
Subject: Re: Repair of idiotic plastic pipe implementation on the Brewtus
|
"Miss Penny" <pennypey@yahoo.com > wrote:
|
| | |
Date: 12 Mar 2007 23:53:42
From: *alan*
Subject: Re: Repair of idiotic plastic pipe implementation on the Brewtus
|
"Miss Penny" <pennypey@yahoo.com > wrote
[ ... ]
> Dave
Did you forget to switch identities again?
|
| |
Date: 12 Mar 2007 13:39:59
From: Roger Shoaf
Subject: Re: Repair of idiotic plastic pipe implementation on the Brewtus
|
The fitting you describe is one that I have never seen, but the concept
could work just fine if the internal ferrule made a good seal. I suspect
what happened was the plastic tubing was not properly flared, or the nut was
bad. For a flare fitting, the inside of the nut should have an angle the
same as the nose of the male fitting.
Your suggestion that the nut needed to be countersunk suggests they might
have had the wrong nut.
I can see an advantage to plastic tubing, it would probably handle the
vibration better and if the water chemistry was such it might corrode the
copper and leach a metallic taste into the water.
--
Roger Shoaf
About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.
"gscace" <gregory.scace@nist.gov > wrote in message
news:1173711590.574552.132720@64g2000cwx.googlegroups.com...
> Hi:
>
> A friend of mine was given a Brewtus that had been back to the Brewtus
> dealer 4 times for repair of the plastic pipe connecting the feedwater
> preheat (in the steam boiler) to the inlet connection to the brew
> boiler. The manufacturer uses a plastic pipe, which appears to end in
> a flare of some sort. The flared tube fits over an internal ferrule
> in the fitting to which the plastic tube is attached. The flare is
> captured by a nut that compresses the flare against a sealing surface
> on the fitting. The design seems pretty sketchy to me because the nut
> imparts compressive load to a pretty thin flare. There's gotta be
> stress concentration in the corner of the flare, and in fact the
> failure of the tube occurred precisely at that point.
>
> I discovered that 1/4 inch copper refrigeration tubing fits over the
> internal ferrule just about perfectly. I also discovered that a
> standard SAE flaring tool made a flare that fit the internal
> dimensions of the nut just about perfectly as well. The nut itself
> needed the hole diameter opened up from 6mm to slightly over 1/4 inch
> (I used a letter F drill, which is .257" diameter). The hole should
> prolly get chamfered on the inside by a countersink.
>
> We replaced the plastic piece of feces with copper refrigeration
> tubing. The system was leak tight immediately. We then fired up the
> machine for an hour to look for leaks. Finding none, we covered its
> nether parts with stainless steel clothing and celebrated our
> adventure by making coffee.
>
> I do have to say that the service guys at the Brewtus dealer deserve
> to get called out on this. The part is pretty lame to begin with, but
> it's really inexcusable for that machine to have gone back 4 times for
> the same repair. They are pros who I'm sure have seen this problem
> before on other machines. Perhaps they have something to add here
> that would help folks have confidence in their commitment to customer
> service?
>
> Oh, by the way, I liked the coffee it made. Functionally it's pretty
> solid, but it could use more steam power. It's very easy to use.
>
> -Greg
>
|
| | |
Date: 12 Mar 2007 18:41:14
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Repair of idiotic plastic pipe implementation on the Brewtus
|
In that case you'd have bigger problems - the water pipes in your house are
usually copper and espresso boilers and HX's are often unlined copper.
Copper is usually considered safe for water contact and for non-acidic
foods. If your water is acidic enough to corrode copper it should be treated
before you put it in an espresso machine.
"Roger Shoaf" <shoaf@nospamsyix.com > wrote in message
news:1173732006.60466@news01.syix.com...
>
> I can see an advantage to plastic tubing, it would probably handle the
> vibration better and if the water chemistry was such it might corrode the
> copper and leach a metallic taste into the water.
>
> --
>
> Roger Shoaf
>
> About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube,
> then
> they come up with this striped stuff.
> "gscace" <gregory.scace@nist.gov> wrote in message
> news:1173711590.574552.132720@64g2000cwx.googlegroups.com...
>> Hi:
>>
>> A friend of mine was given a Brewtus that had been back to the Brewtus
>> dealer 4 times for repair of the plastic pipe connecting the feedwater
>> preheat (in the steam boiler) to the inlet connection to the brew
>> boiler. The manufacturer uses a plastic pipe, which appears to end in
>> a flare of some sort. The flared tube fits over an internal ferrule
>> in the fitting to which the plastic tube is attached. The flare is
>> captured by a nut that compresses the flare against a sealing surface
>> on the fitting. The design seems pretty sketchy to me because the nut
>> imparts compressive load to a pretty thin flare. There's gotta be
>> stress concentration in the corner of the flare, and in fact the
>> failure of the tube occurred precisely at that point.
>>
>> I discovered that 1/4 inch copper refrigeration tubing fits over the
>> internal ferrule just about perfectly. I also discovered that a
>> standard SAE flaring tool made a flare that fit the internal
>> dimensions of the nut just about perfectly as well. The nut itself
>> needed the hole diameter opened up from 6mm to slightly over 1/4 inch
>> (I used a letter F drill, which is .257" diameter). The hole should
>> prolly get chamfered on the inside by a countersink.
>>
>> We replaced the plastic piece of feces with copper refrigeration
>> tubing. The system was leak tight immediately. We then fired up the
>> machine for an hour to look for leaks. Finding none, we covered its
>> nether parts with stainless steel clothing and celebrated our
>> adventure by making coffee.
>>
>> I do have to say that the service guys at the Brewtus dealer deserve
>> to get called out on this. The part is pretty lame to begin with, but
>> it's really inexcusable for that machine to have gone back 4 times for
>> the same repair. They are pros who I'm sure have seen this problem
>> before on other machines. Perhaps they have something to add here
>> that would help folks have confidence in their commitment to customer
>> service?
>>
>> Oh, by the way, I liked the coffee it made. Functionally it's pretty
>> solid, but it could use more steam power. It's very easy to use.
>>
>> -Greg
>>
>
>
|
| |
Date: 12 Mar 2007 11:53:30
From: Karl
Subject: Re: Repair of idiotic plastic pipe implementation on the Brewtus
|
On 12, 1:54 pm, "gscace" <gregory.sc...@nist.gov > wrote:
> > > -Greg
>
> > Ah, the Brewtus!
>
> > tsk.
>
> > Dave
>
> Ah, the Brewtus what? Components-wise it seems a very great amount of
> bang for the buck. It's got a spring-loaded, mechanically actuated
> e-61 clone group, ulka pump, some sort of controller whose user
> interface is waay better than the La Spaz. I stuck a thermofilter
> on it, and learned that the thermosyphon is tuned reasonably well
> enough, so that the thing only needs about a 2 ounce warming shot from
> idle, which pretty much of the same order as the best twin-boiler
> machines. Both intrashot and intershot thermal stability are way
> better than any other prosumer e-61 clone that I've played with.
> The problem that I see is that the idiots at Expobar did the tubing on
> the cheap. It's also the dealer / importer for enabling that and for
> the crappy service.
>
> So what's up, Dave? Did I miss something about the machine?
>
> -Greg
> -Greg
Greg, all you missed was that Daveb doesn't sell them. Last I heard,
he had never even seen one.
As you may recall, he used to have similar comments about all HE
machines . . . until he started selling them.
Thanks for your very helpful analysis of an apparent Brewtus issue,
and for providing the solution. My Brewtus II has worked flawlessly
for about 16 months now, and makes great espresso, shot after shot,
but if I have a leak in the feedwater pipe, I'll know where to look
for the problem, thanks to your posting.
Karl
|
| |
Date: 12 Mar 2007 11:21:56
From: DavidMLewis
Subject: Re: Repair of idiotic plastic pipe implementation on the Brewtus
|
On 12, 10:41 am, "gscace" <gregory.sc...@nist.gov > wrote:
>
> Actually there are plastics that work fine at boiling water temps, so
> I'm cool with the correct use of plastics. But this implementation
> deserves a swift boot to the head.
>
The Techno is plumbed internally with 1 mm wall Teflon tubing going
into metal instant fittings of some sort. The larger (6 mm OD/4 mm ID)
tubing has a brass insert that reinforces it, but the smaller stuff is
used as-is. As long as I cut a fresh end on the tubing if I remove and
replace it, it's proven perfectly reliable in the six or so years I've
owned the machine.
Best,
David
|
| |
Date: 12 Mar 2007 10:54:14
From: gscace
Subject: Re: Repair of idiotic plastic pipe implementation on the Brewtus
|
>
> > -Greg
>
> Ah, the Brewtus!
>
> tsk.
>
> Dave
Ah, the Brewtus what? Components-wise it seems a very great amount of
bang for the buck. It's got a spring-loaded, mechanically actuated
e-61 clone group, ulka pump, some sort of controller whose user
interface is waay better than the La Spaz. I stuck a thermofilter
on it, and learned that the thermosyphon is tuned reasonably well
enough, so that the thing only needs about a 2 ounce warming shot from
idle, which pretty much of the same order as the best twin-boiler
machines. Both intrashot and intershot thermal stability are way
better than any other prosumer e-61 clone that I've played with.
The problem that I see is that the idiots at Expobar did the tubing on
the cheap. It's also the dealer / importer for enabling that and for
the crappy service.
So what's up, Dave? Did I miss something about the machine?
-Greg
-Greg
|
| |
Date: 12 Mar 2007 10:41:43
From: gscace
Subject: Re: Repair of idiotic plastic pipe implementation on the Brewtus
|
On 12, 10:53 am, "Jack Denver" <nunuv...@netscape.net > wrote:
> Flaring plastic sound pretty lame. For that matter, using plastic to carry
> hot water sounds lame also. How much would it have cost them at the factory
> to use 6 inches of copper tubing for this line?
>
> OTOH, a lot of home machines use nylon tubing with compression fittngs for
> cold water. I've also used this tubing with compression fittings to run
> water lines to filters, etc. I must say that it is easier to work with (more
> flexible) than copper. The traditional compression fittings (which include
> an extra metal insert when used with plastic) appear to work very well and
> I've never had any leaks once they were tightened down. I can't say the
> same thing for the "John Guest" quick connect type fittings which rely on a
> o-ring for seal - it's only a matter of time befor the o-ring rots, while
> compression gives a metal on metal seal that should be good for life once
> tightened.
>
> Flare tubing (in copper) is very common in the auto industry where it's used
> for brake lines, etc. where pressures are extremely high. Again, if
> properly done it's a leakproof metal on metal seal. I've never heard of
> plastic being flared, probably for good reason.
>
> As you say, the dealer should have tried another approach after the 2nd
> failure. One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over
> and expecting a different result.
>
> "gscace" <gregory.sc...@nist.gov> wrote in message
>
> news:1173711590.574552.132720@64g2000cwx.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Hi:
>
> > A friend of mine was given a Brewtus that had been back to the Brewtus
> > dealer 4 times for repair of the plastic pipe connecting the feedwater
> > preheat (in the steam boiler) to the inlet connection to the brew
> > boiler. The manufacturer uses a plastic pipe, which appears to end in
> > a flare of some sort. The flared tube fits over an internal ferrule
> > in the fitting to which the plastic tube is attached. The flare is
> > captured by a nut that compresses the flare against a sealing surface
> > on the fitting. The design seems pretty sketchy to me because the nut
> > imparts compressive load to a pretty thin flare. There's gotta be
> > stress concentration in the corner of the flare, and in fact the
> > failure of the tube occurred precisely at that point.
>
> > I discovered that 1/4 inch copper refrigeration tubing fits over the
> > internal ferrule just about perfectly. I also discovered that a
> > standard SAE flaring tool made a flare that fit the internal
> > dimensions of the nut just about perfectly as well. The nut itself
> > needed the hole diameter opened up from 6mm to slightly over 1/4 inch
> > (I used a letter F drill, which is .257" diameter). The hole should
> > prolly get chamfered on the inside by a countersink.
>
> > We replaced the plastic piece of feces with copper refrigeration
> > tubing. The system was leak tight immediately. We then fired up the
> > machine for an hour to look for leaks. Finding none, we covered its
> > nether parts with stainless steel clothing and celebrated our
> > adventure by making coffee.
>
> > I do have to say that the service guys at the Brewtus dealer deserve
> > to get called out on this. The part is pretty lame to begin with, but
> > it's really inexcusable for that machine to have gone back 4 times for
> > the same repair. They are pros who I'm sure have seen this problem
> > before on other machines. Perhaps they have something to add here
> > that would help folks have confidence in their commitment to customer
> > service?
>
> > Oh, by the way, I liked the coffee it made. Functionally it's pretty
> > solid, but it could use more steam power. It's very easy to use.
>
> > -Greg
Actually there are plastics that work fine at boiling water temps, so
I'm cool with the correct use of plastics. But this implementation
deserves a swift boot to the head.
Greg (I want red Doc tens) Scace
|
| |
Date: 12 Mar 2007 09:26:42
From: daveb
Subject: Re: Repair of idiotic plastic pipe implementation on the Brewtus
|
On 12, 10:59 am, "gscace" <gregory.sc...@nist.gov > wrote:
> Hi:
>
> A friend of mine was given a Brewtus that had been back to the Brewtus
> dealer 4 times for repair of the plastic pipe connecting the feedwater
> preheat (in the steam boiler) to the inlet connection to the brew
> boiler. The manufacturer uses a plastic pipe, which appears to end in
> a flare of some sort. The flared tube fits over an internal ferrule
> in the fitting to which the plastic tube is attached. The flare is
> captured by a nut that compresses the flare against a sealing surface
> on the fitting. The design seems pretty sketchy to me because the nut
> imparts compressive load to a pretty thin flare. There's gotta be
> stress concentration in the corner of the flare, and in fact the
> failure of the tube occurred precisely at that point.
>
> I discovered that 1/4 inch copper refrigeration tubing fits over the
> internal ferrule just about perfectly. I also discovered that a
> standard SAE flaring tool made a flare that fit the internal
> dimensions of the nut just about perfectly as well. The nut itself
> needed the hole diameter opened up from 6mm to slightly over 1/4 inch
> (I used a letter F drill, which is .257" diameter). The hole should
> prolly get chamfered on the inside by a countersink.
>
> We replaced the plastic piece of feces with copper refrigeration
> tubing. The system was leak tight immediately. We then fired up the
> machine for an hour to look for leaks. Finding none, we covered its
> nether parts with stainless steel clothing and celebrated our
> adventure by making coffee.
>
> I do have to say that the service guys at the Brewtus dealer deserve
> to get called out on this. The part is pretty lame to begin with, but
> it's really inexcusable for that machine to have gone back 4 times for
> the same repair. They are pros who I'm sure have seen this problem
> before on other machines. Perhaps they have something to add here
> that would help folks have confidence in their commitment to customer
> service?
>
> Oh, by the way, I liked the coffee it made. Functionally it's pretty
> solid, but it could use more steam power. It's very easy to use.
>
> -Greg
Ah, the Brewtus!
tsk.
Dave
|
| |
Date: 12 Mar 2007 11:53:13
From: Jack Denver
Subject: Re: Repair of idiotic plastic pipe implementation on the Brewtus
|
Flaring plastic sound pretty lame. For that matter, using plastic to carry
hot water sounds lame also. How much would it have cost them at the factory
to use 6 inches of copper tubing for this line?
OTOH, a lot of home machines use nylon tubing with compression fittngs for
cold water. I've also used this tubing with compression fittings to run
water lines to filters, etc. I must say that it is easier to work with (more
flexible) than copper. The traditional compression fittings (which include
an extra metal insert when used with plastic) appear to work very well and
I've never had any leaks once they were tightened down. I can't say the
same thing for the "John Guest" quick connect type fittings which rely on a
o-ring for seal - it's only a matter of time befor the o-ring rots, while
compression gives a metal on metal seal that should be good for life once
tightened.
Flare tubing (in copper) is very common in the auto industry where it's used
for brake lines, etc. where pressures are extremely high. Again, if
properly done it's a leakproof metal on metal seal. I've never heard of
plastic being flared, probably for good reason.
As you say, the dealer should have tried another approach after the 2nd
failure. One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over
and expecting a different result.
"gscace" <gregory.scace@nist.gov > wrote in message
news:1173711590.574552.132720@64g2000cwx.googlegroups.com...
> Hi:
>
> A friend of mine was given a Brewtus that had been back to the Brewtus
> dealer 4 times for repair of the plastic pipe connecting the feedwater
> preheat (in the steam boiler) to the inlet connection to the brew
> boiler. The manufacturer uses a plastic pipe, which appears to end in
> a flare of some sort. The flared tube fits over an internal ferrule
> in the fitting to which the plastic tube is attached. The flare is
> captured by a nut that compresses the flare against a sealing surface
> on the fitting. The design seems pretty sketchy to me because the nut
> imparts compressive load to a pretty thin flare. There's gotta be
> stress concentration in the corner of the flare, and in fact the
> failure of the tube occurred precisely at that point.
>
> I discovered that 1/4 inch copper refrigeration tubing fits over the
> internal ferrule just about perfectly. I also discovered that a
> standard SAE flaring tool made a flare that fit the internal
> dimensions of the nut just about perfectly as well. The nut itself
> needed the hole diameter opened up from 6mm to slightly over 1/4 inch
> (I used a letter F drill, which is .257" diameter). The hole should
> prolly get chamfered on the inside by a countersink.
>
> We replaced the plastic piece of feces with copper refrigeration
> tubing. The system was leak tight immediately. We then fired up the
> machine for an hour to look for leaks. Finding none, we covered its
> nether parts with stainless steel clothing and celebrated our
> adventure by making coffee.
>
> I do have to say that the service guys at the Brewtus dealer deserve
> to get called out on this. The part is pretty lame to begin with, but
> it's really inexcusable for that machine to have gone back 4 times for
> the same repair. They are pros who I'm sure have seen this problem
> before on other machines. Perhaps they have something to add here
> that would help folks have confidence in their commitment to customer
> service?
>
> Oh, by the way, I liked the coffee it made. Functionally it's pretty
> solid, but it could use more steam power. It's very easy to use.
>
> -Greg
>
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