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Date: 06 Mar 2007 10:31:29
From: yoma
Subject: Roasting for sweeter Coffee
Is there an ideal target temperature/duration at which more sugars are
formed during a roast?




 
Date: 07 Mar 2007 15:43:44
From: karlseidel
Subject: Re: Roasting for sweeter Coffee
Well stated Ed. Your experience pretty much mirrors mine when I'm
roasting a full batch on my 2.2Kilo Toper. The times are different for
bigger batches in bigger roasters (but that's a different thread).

Karl Seidel

On 6, 7:51 am, "Ed Needham" <e...@NOSPAMhomeroaster.com > wrote:
> In my experience, when the drying stage goes too long, there is not enough
> moisture left in the process to achieve the reactions necessary for full
> flavored coffee. I prefer to get to first crack fairly quickly (about 14
> minutes in my drum with a 5 pound load) and then hold the roaster temp at=
no
> greater than 470F (your measurements will likely vary due to probe
> placement) and stop just as second crack is beginning. This allows
> optimization of caramelization without destroying the sugars by
> carbonization.
>
> Using the analogy of making a sugar syrup on the stove, you start with wa=
ter
> and sugar. If you heat the mixture until most of the water has evaporated
> (a long drying stage as you suggest), then you don't have enough moisture=
to
> allow the full process of caramelization to occur and you'll likely get a
> burnt mess of carbonized sugars. Too much moisture and caramelization do=
es
> not take place.
>
> A little bit of carbonized sugar will add roasty flavor to the coffee, mu=
ch
> like searing a steak or browning the cheese on a pizza makes it more
> palatable. Too much and you have an ashy, burnt flavor. Not good.
>
> The fine balance between stopping the roast before too much of the sugar =
has
> been destroyed, and too many of the fruity acids have evaporated or been
> used up in chemical processes, is key to getting the most sweetness and
> complexity from a roast.
> --
> *********************
> Ed Needham=AE
> "to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com
> (include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
> *********************
>
> "Jasonian" <jason.hae...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1173172519.307486.286580@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On 5, 5:31 pm, yoma <y...@yoma.net.au> wrote:
> >> Is there an ideal target temperature/duration at which more sugars are
> >> formed during a roast?
>
> > maximize the drying stage.. minimize the caramelization/carbon
> > producing stage.
>
> > Look to George Howell for details.




 
Date: 06 Mar 2007 01:15:19
From: Jasonian
Subject: Re: Roasting for sweeter Coffee
On 5, 5:31 pm, yoma <y...@yoma.net.au > wrote:
> Is there an ideal target temperature/duration at which more sugars are
> formed during a roast?

maximize the drying stage.. minimize the caramelization/carbon
producing stage.

Look to George Howell for details.



  
Date: 06 Mar 2007 10:51:17
From: Ed Needham
Subject: Re: Roasting for sweeter Coffee
In my experience, when the drying stage goes too long, there is not enough
moisture left in the process to achieve the reactions necessary for full
flavored coffee. I prefer to get to first crack fairly quickly (about 14
minutes in my drum with a 5 pound load) and then hold the roaster temp at no
greater than 470F (your measurements will likely vary due to probe
placement) and stop just as second crack is beginning. This allows
optimization of caramelization without destroying the sugars by
carbonization.

Using the analogy of making a sugar syrup on the stove, you start with water
and sugar. If you heat the mixture until most of the water has evaporated
(a long drying stage as you suggest), then you don't have enough moisture to
allow the full process of caramelization to occur and you'll likely get a
burnt mess of carbonized sugars. Too much moisture and caramelization does
not take place.

A little bit of carbonized sugar will add roasty flavor to the coffee, much
like searing a steak or browning the cheese on a pizza makes it more
palatable. Too much and you have an ashy, burnt flavor. Not good.

The fine balance between stopping the roast before too much of the sugar has
been destroyed, and too many of the fruity acids have evaporated or been
used up in chemical processes, is key to getting the most sweetness and
complexity from a roast.
--
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"
http://www.homeroaster.com
(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************


"Jasonian" <jason.haeger@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1173172519.307486.286580@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
> On 5, 5:31 pm, yoma <y...@yoma.net.au> wrote:
>> Is there an ideal target temperature/duration at which more sugars are
>> formed during a roast?
>
> maximize the drying stage.. minimize the caramelization/carbon
> producing stage.
>
> Look to George Howell for details.
>




   
Date: 08 Mar 2007 20:32:56
From: Mike Hartigan
Subject: Re: Roasting for sweeter Coffee
In article <E8SdndT07JMiEHDYnZ2dnUVZ_sCinZ2d@insightbb.com >,
ed@NOSPAMhomeroaster.com says...

> Using the analogy of making a sugar syrup on the stove, you start with water
> and sugar. If you heat the mixture until most of the water has evaporated
> (a long drying stage as you suggest), then you don't have enough moisture to
> allow the full process of caramelization to occur and you'll likely get a
> burnt mess of carbonized sugars. Too much moisture and caramelization does
> not take place.

Not to pick nits, but that analogy is not quite right. When making a
sugar syrup, the sole purpose of water is to partially dissolve the
sugar so that it doesn't burn as it would likely do if you tried to
melt it in a dry pan. Once it exceeds 212F, the water evaporates
completely and you're left with just sugar. Carmelization can't
occur in the presence of water - 212F is simply not hot enough.

--
-Mike


    
Date: 09 Mar 2007 05:53:20
From: Andy Schecter
Subject: Re: Roasting for sweeter Coffee
Mike Hartigan wrote:
> Once it exceeds 212F, the water evaporates
> completely and you're left with just sugar.

No no no. Water is quite happy to hang around at temperatures higher than 212F
when there are other substances in solution. See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling-point_elevation


--


-Andy S.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/


    
Date: 09 Mar 2007 01:49:07
From: Ed Needham
Subject: Re: Roasting for sweeter Coffee
What I was trying to say was that some moisture aids in the chemical
processes necessary for developing full taste and aroma, including
caramelization. If you put dry sugar in the bottom of a pan, it's likely
that you would get something besides a nice creamy tasty caramel syrup.
Reducing the combined sugar and water to the point where the caramelization
can occur is similar to what goes on inside the bean.
--
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"
http://www.homeroaster.com
(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

"Mike Hartigan" <mike@hartigan.dot.com > wrote in message
news:MPG.205a8355a9215756989985@newsgroups.comcast.net...
> Not to pick nits, but that analogy is not quite right. When making a
> sugar syrup, the sole purpose of water is to partially dissolve the
> sugar so that it doesn't burn as it would likely do if you tried to
> melt it in a dry pan. Once it exceeds 212F, the water evaporates
> completely and you're left with just sugar. Carmelization can't
> occur in the presence of water - 212F is simply not hot enough.
>
> --
> -Mike




   
Date: 08 Mar 2007 21:37:33
From: yoma
Subject: Re: Roasting for sweeter Coffee
Ed Needham wrote:
> In my experience, when the drying stage goes too long, there is not enough
> moisture left in the process to achieve the reactions necessary for full
> flavored coffee. I prefer to get to first crack fairly quickly (about 14
> minutes in my drum with a 5 pound load) and then hold the roaster temp at no
> greater than 470F (your measurements will likely vary due to probe
> placement) and stop just as second crack is beginning. This allows
> optimization of caramelization without destroying the sugars by
> carbonization.

Is the drying stage dependent on how the beans are processed (wet/dry)?


    
Date: 08 Mar 2007 10:48:03
From: Ed Needham
Subject: Re: Roasting for sweeter Coffee
With either wet or dry processing, the beans have to be dried to a specific
moisture content before bagging and storing or shipping, so the processing
would not affect moisture content by the time it reaches you.

Roasting technique for wet vs. dry is another story.
Dry process beans are a real treat for me. I like the sweetness, fruitiness
and sometimes earthy, unique complexity. I roast many dry process coffees
with a very neutral profile. I want all the dry process flavor to come
through, so I roast to just about the beginning of second crack and stop. I
choose to start the beans in a cooler roaster near 350F vs. 400F drop temp.
The roaster temp drops about 50F when I add the beans and then begins to
climb. I then let the bean temps 'chase' the increasing roaster temps, and
not blasting them with full power in the process till the roaster temp hits
about 460F, where I level it off through the end of the roast.
For me, this intensifies the aroma and sweetness and retains the fruity
wildness of the dry process flavors.
--
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"
http://www.homeroaster.com
(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************



"yoma" <yoma@yoma.net.au > wrote in message
news:45EFE76D.6000001@yoma.net.au...
>
> Is the drying stage dependent on how the beans are processed (wet/dry)?




   
Date: 06 Mar 2007 09:29:35
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Roasting for sweeter Coffee
"Ed Needham" <ed@NOSPAMhomeroaster.com > wrote:

>In my experience, when the drying stage goes too long, there is not enough
>moisture left in the process to achieve the reactions necessary for full
>flavored coffee. I prefer to get to first crack fairly quickly (about 14
>minutes in my drum with a 5 pound load) and then hold the roaster temp at no
>greater than 470F (your measurements will likely vary due to probe
>placement) and stop just as second crack is beginning. This allows
>optimization of caramelization without destroying the sugars by
>carbonization.

With the little amount of experimenting I have so far completed with
the programmable Hottop I am finding much the same to be true. I reach
first in just about the same amount of time.

I was wondering how long of a pause you get between the end of first
and the beginning of second? My last couple of roasts I was able to
get about 1:30 and 2:00 pause and the result seems to be quite nice.
One experienced roaster told me that he can get about five minutes
between and it produces an excellent roast for espresso.

Randy "so much to learn- so few brain cells left" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com




    
Date: 08 Mar 2007 21:33:56
From: yoma
Subject: Re: Roasting for sweeter Coffee
Randy G. wrote:
> "Ed Needham" <ed@NOSPAMhomeroaster.com> wrote:
>
>> .... I prefer to get to first crack fairly quickly (about 14
>> minutes in my drum with a 5 pound load) and then hold the roaster temp at no
>> greater than 470F (your measurements will likely vary due to probe
>> placement) and stop just as second crack is beginning....

I've been getting to 1st in around 9:00 to 11:00 mins. I deliberately
targeted this time because of some expert opinions ...
I'm currently exploring some different profiles in the in the pre-1st -
it seems to make a difference.


> With the little amount of experimenting I have so far completed with
> the programmable Hottop I am finding much the same to be true. I reach
> first in just about the same amount of time.

Randy, I >Ian, I'd be interested to get your opinions on a faster pre-1st
in the hottop - if you ever feel like giving it a shot.

Thanks
Yoma


     
Date: 08 Mar 2007 09:50:20
From: I->Ian
Subject: Re: Roasting for sweeter Coffee
On Thu, 08 2007 21:33:56 +1100, yoma <yoma@yoma.net.au > wrote:

>Randy, I>Ian, I'd be interested to get your opinions on a faster pre-1st
>in the hottop - if you ever feel like giving it a shot.

About the fastest I can get to 1st, 395F, is 7:30 :
Voltage 130 100% duty cycle
Fan OFF
225g
Enviro Drop temp ~400F, ~300F on bean mass probe.

With Tanzanian Ruvuma, and a 4 minute interval to 435F, a very nice
drip cup is obtained. Great mocha notes. It's a bit bright for
espresso.


     
Date: 08 Mar 2007 08:20:55
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Roasting for sweeter Coffee
yoma <yoma@yoma.net.au > wrote:

>
>Randy, I>Ian, I'd be interested to get your opinions on a faster pre-1st
>in the hottop - if you ever feel like giving it a shot.
>

I just looked through my notes, and generally it looks like first
begins at about 11:00-11:30 using 250 to 300 grams. With batches of
that size this is about as fast as can be expected. It could be sped
up a bit by lowering the amount of beans to around 200-225, but that
would also speed up the end of the roast making control more difficult
at the end.

Checking the numbers in my roasting records from my testing, running
the first three segments at the highest temperature possible you would
find that the upper limits of the programming parameters pretty much
indicate the maximum temps that the roster can achieve. The 11:00 to
first is about as fast as can be reasonably achieved.

I can say that the taste of the coffee has been improved using the
programming as opposed to the older models featuring the LEDs or the
LCD time/temp display (KN-8828 and KN-8828D). Richer, deeper, more
flavorful now. Even in a cappa the taste difference is clear my wife
was commenting on that this AM. No surprise there, in that the older
factory program took around 20-22 minutes to reach a rolling second.

The programming give the user the ability to run the machine with the
heating element on all the time (if so desired) and that is pretty
much what is going on now in the early stages. This, obviously,
represents the maximum speed at which the Hottop can roast coffee and
points towards an end to further development of this model, IMO. The
capacity cannot be increased without a major redesign, and a larger
heating element could cause tipping or scorching because of its
proximity to the drum. Hopefully, the R+D they have spent on this
update will carry over to a larger model with more control and greater
potential... we shall see. It took two years for this model to come to
fruition.


Randy "my 15 minutes am up" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com




    
Date: 07 Mar 2007 23:06:05
From: RobvL
Subject: Re: Roasting for sweeter Coffee

"Randy G." <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com > wrote in message
news:g09ru2lbc0n4sbu7vrq5lkp0a158c2ne2s@4ax.com...
> "Ed Needham" <ed@NOSPAMhomeroaster.com> wrote:
>
> >In my experience, when the drying stage goes too long, there is not
enough
> >moisture left in the process to achieve the reactions necessary for full
> >flavored coffee. I prefer to get to first crack fairly quickly (about 14
> >minutes in my drum with a 5 pound load) and then hold the roaster temp at
no
> >greater than 470F (your measurements will likely vary due to probe
> >placement) and stop just as second crack is beginning. This allows
> >optimization of caramelization without destroying the sugars by
> >carbonization.
>
> With the little amount of experimenting I have so far completed with
> the programmable Hottop I am finding much the same to be true. I reach
> first in just about the same amount of time.
>
> I was wondering how long of a pause you get between the end of first
> and the beginning of second? My last couple of roasts I was able to
> get about 1:30 and 2:00 pause and the result seems to be quite nice.
> One experienced roaster told me that he can get about five minutes
> between and it produces an excellent roast for espresso.
>
> Randy "so much to learn- so few brain cells left" G.
> http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
>


Randy are you sure he didn't mean 5 minutes from the start of 1st to the
start of 2nd, not from the end of1st to the start of 2nd. If ever i have a
crackless 5 minute gap between cracks (low gas pressure from a near empty
bottle) the coffee has been decidely flat and liveless in flavor. Yeah i
know my roaster is a fluid air roaster but i haven't told the beans that.

Rob vL
NZ




     
Date: 07 Mar 2007 10:06:39
From: Ed Needham
Subject: Re: Roasting for sweeter Coffee
Sometimes, in my drum roaster, if I am doing a darker roast, whether for
espresso or whatever, I literally turn off the heat at the first sign of
second crack and let the roast coast to the end point. I want it 'cooked'
darker, but I don't want it burnt.
--
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"
http://www.homeroaster.com
(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************


"RobvL" <wontwork@dontbother.net > wrote in message
news:45ee8e90$1@clear.net.nz...
> Randy are you sure he didn't mean 5 minutes from the start of 1st to the
> start of 2nd, not from the end of1st to the start of 2nd. If ever i have a
> crackless 5 minute gap between cracks (low gas pressure from a near empty
> bottle) the coffee has been decidely flat and liveless in flavor. Yeah i
> know my roaster is a fluid air roaster but i haven't told the beans that.




    
Date: 06 Mar 2007 12:09:20
From: Lloyd Parsons
Subject: Re: Roasting for sweeter Coffee
In article <g09ru2lbc0n4sbu7vrq5lkp0a158c2ne2s@4ax.com >,
Randy G. <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com > wrote:

> "Ed Needham" <ed@NOSPAMhomeroaster.com> wrote:
>
> >In my experience, when the drying stage goes too long, there is not enough
> >moisture left in the process to achieve the reactions necessary for full
> >flavored coffee. I prefer to get to first crack fairly quickly (about 14
> >minutes in my drum with a 5 pound load) and then hold the roaster temp at no
> >greater than 470F (your measurements will likely vary due to probe
> >placement) and stop just as second crack is beginning. This allows
> >optimization of caramelization without destroying the sugars by
> >carbonization.
>
> With the little amount of experimenting I have so far completed with
> the programmable Hottop I am finding much the same to be true. I reach
> first in just about the same amount of time.
>
> I was wondering how long of a pause you get between the end of first
> and the beginning of second? My last couple of roasts I was able to
> get about 1:30 and 2:00 pause and the result seems to be quite nice.
> One experienced roaster told me that he can get about five minutes
> between and it produces an excellent roast for espresso.
>
> Randy "so much to learn- so few brain cells left" G.
> http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
>
>

I use a Gene and usually do 300 for 5minutes for a warmup. Then set to
475 until desired roast level for nuanced beans or blends.

I do a much longer roast profile for body types (colombians, bolivians).
300 warmup 5 min, 350/5 min, 400/5 min and then 475 until desired roast
level.

Am I allowing too long a bean warmup? And would I produce a better
roast by pushing to a quick 1st crack and then backing down a bit? Tom
at Sweetias suggests doing that, but doesn't give a clue as to how
much to back down. And the Gene book is even more vague, only giving
approx time at max temp for all roasts City or more.

And last, on the Hottop, can you change the roast profile after start of
roast? I thought you couldn't. Only stop the roast.


     
Date: 06 Mar 2007 12:02:35
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Roasting for sweeter Coffee
Lloyd Parsons <lloydparsons@mac.com > wrote:

>And last, on the Hottop, can you change the roast profile after start of
>roast? I thought you couldn't. Only stop the roast.
>
The new Programmable model allows the user to change the programmed
temperature in any of the Segments while a segment is active (segments
are a maximum of 3 minutes long). Using the + and - buttons does that.
Unfortunately there is no indication of what the new temp is- only a
relative indication with a thermometer-like display. Doesn't really
matter since the heating element is binary and so you can turn it on
by setting a high temp or lower by selecting a temp below the
currently achieved level.


Randy "everything is long relatively speaking" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com




      
Date: 06 Mar 2007 15:15:17
From: Lloyd Parsons
Subject: Re: Roasting for sweeter Coffee
In article <40iru2t7er5t788l8139ptvkhc6fa3fopv@4ax.com >,
Randy G. <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com > wrote:

> Lloyd Parsons <lloydparsons@mac.com> wrote:
>
> >And last, on the Hottop, can you change the roast profile after start of
> >roast? I thought you couldn't. Only stop the roast.
> >
> The new Programmable model allows the user to change the programmed
> temperature in any of the Segments while a segment is active (segments
> are a maximum of 3 minutes long). Using the + and - buttons does that.
> Unfortunately there is no indication of what the new temp is- only a
> relative indication with a thermometer-like display. Doesn't really
> matter since the heating element is binary and so you can turn it on
> by setting a high temp or lower by selecting a temp below the
> currently achieved level.
>
>
> Randy "everything is long relatively speaking" G.
> http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
>
>

Thanks for the info. That is better than I remember reading of the
older Hottops, which is why I went with the Gene. Well that and the
programmable is a bit out of what I'm willing to spend on a roaster.

The Gene lets you shuffle the time and temp as much as you want during
the roast. However, the temp is the temp of the exhaust air (I think)
and not necessarily the bean temp. I would think that it would be close
to bean temp though.


       
Date: 07 Mar 2007 21:35:58
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Roasting for sweeter Coffee
Lloyd Parsons <lloydparsons@mac.com > wrote:

>In article <40iru2t7er5t788l8139ptvkhc6fa3fopv@4ax.com>,
> Randy G. <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com> wrote:
>
>> >
>> The new Programmable model allows the user to change the programmed
>> temperature in any of the Segments while a segment is active (segments
>> are a maximum of 3 minutes long). Using the + and - buttons does that.
>> Unfortunately there is no indication of what the new temp is- only a
>> relative indication with a thermometer-like display. Doesn't really
>> matter since the heating element is binary and so you can turn it on
>> by setting a high temp or lower by selecting a temp below the
>> currently achieved level.
>>
>
>Thanks for the info. That is better than I remember reading of the
>older Hottops, which is why I went with the Gene. Well that and the
>programmable is a bit out of what I'm willing to spend on a roaster.
>
The older Hottops had binary control- you start it and then end it,
and the profile was completely pre-programmed into its control chip.
it wasn't a bad profile but it gave the user no choice other than
time.it was one roasting curve that was cut off at a time limit.

I think the programmable "P" shows the real potential of the current
design which is what I had been asking them for since the first model.
It also reveals it limits.

As I mentioned in the review, I can't speak for the relative value of
this roaster, and this group has put at least four coats of argument
on the diminishing return wall. Personally, I couldn't spend that much
on a roaster, but the first shipment has already sold out (more
arriving very shortly) so there are plenty of folks who evidently
would spend that much...

On the other hand, I made two doubles this morning. I often sample a
bit from the spout, and both doubles were amazing- exploding in the
mouth and lingering delightfully on the palate.

>The Gene lets you shuffle the time and temp as much as you want during
>the roast. However, the temp is the temp of the exhaust air (I think)
>and not necessarily the bean temp. I would think that it would be close
>to bean temp though.
>
I think you would find much the same as I have with the Hottop- that
the bean temp lags behind the air temp early, and then rises above as
the beans become exothermic. I suppose it really doesn't matter if it
displays temps consistently.


Randy "don't write a mouth your check can't deposit" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com






     
Date: 06 Mar 2007 10:24:14
From: I->Ian
Subject: Re: Roasting for sweeter Coffee
>
>And last, on the Hottop, can you change the roast profile after start of
>roast? I thought you couldn't. Only stop the roast.

Stock HotTop profile is not changable, ever. Adjustments can be made
by volume of beans and insertion time.

Also the HotTop has a lot of inertia, so big fast changes are not
possible on a modified to manual version.


    
Date: 06 Mar 2007 09:55:31
From: I->Ian
Subject: Re: Roasting for sweeter Coffee
On Tue, 06 2007 09:29:35 -0800, Randy G. <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com >
wrote:

>My last couple of roasts I was able to
>get about 1:30 and 2:00

That's not a lot different from a stock HotTop.

I can get as long as I want with my modified HotTop.
Gone as long as 7 minutes, but the coffee sucked.


     
Date: 06 Mar 2007 11:58:06
From: Randy G.
Subject: Re: Roasting for sweeter Coffee
"I- >Ian" <someone@nowhere.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 06 2007 09:29:35 -0800, Randy G. <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com>
>wrote:
>
>>My last couple of roasts I was able to
>>get about 1:30 and 2:00
>
>That's not a lot different from a stock HotTop.
>

Except it took place much earlier:

First crack begin at about 13:15
First Crack end at about 14:10
Second crack begin at about 15:50
Manual eject at 16:50, about 10-20 seconds into active second.

These times with about 305grams of coffee.
The same roast would have taken around 20-21 minutes with the stock
profile/program.


Randy "still testing" G.
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com




      
Date: 06 Mar 2007 21:03:20
From: Steve
Subject: Re: Roasting for sweeter Coffee
On Tue, 06 2007 11:58:06 -0800, Randy G. <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com >
wrote:

> First crack begin at about 13:15
> First Crack end at about 14:10
> Second crack begin at about 15:50
> Manual eject at 16:50, about 10-20 seconds into active second.

If first crack doesn't occur until 13 minutes into the process, isn't
that baking the coffee?


     
Date: 06 Mar 2007 13:04:45
From: Ed Needham
Subject: Re: Roasting for sweeter Coffee
One to two minutes seems about right. Different beans do different things
with regard to first and second crack. I don't pay as much attention
anymore. Much of my roasting is routine. I know I've botched a roast when
second nearly starts at the end of first. I can expect diminished aroma and
muted flavors. Dragging it out for more than a few minutes between cracks
also seems to botch a roast. I try to think 'sweet spot' and hit it as
frequently as I can.
--
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"
http://www.homeroaster.com
(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************


"I- >Ian" <someone@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:olaru21sg0ncr8mrrm1tmf4b0ihiioapkg@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 06 2007 09:29:35 -0800, Randy G. <frcn@DESPAMMOcncnet.com>
> wrote:
>
>>My last couple of roasts I was able to
>>get about 1:30 and 2:00
>
> That's not a lot different from a stock HotTop.
>
> I can get as long as I want with my modified HotTop.
> Gone as long as 7 minutes, but the coffee sucked.




      
Date: 07 Mar 2007 07:46:26
From: yoma
Subject: Re: Roasting for sweeter Coffee
Ed Needham wrote:
> One to two minutes seems about right. Different beans do different things
> with regard to first and second crack. I don't pay as much attention
> anymore. Much of my roasting is routine. I know I've botched a roast when
> second nearly starts at the end of first. I can expect diminished aroma and
> muted flavors. Dragging it out for more than a few minutes between cracks
> also seems to botch a roast. I try to think 'sweet spot' and hit it as
> frequently as I can.


Now, the 'sweetness' will continue to change (kick in) after the coffee
has been roasted.

Can anyone shed some light on what's happening here?

I've found this is somewhat related to the durations above. It seems
the 'sugar derivative' packages aren't 'released' immediately.


   
Date: 06 Mar 2007 11:18:17
From: Craig Andrews
Subject: Re: Roasting for sweeter Coffee

"Ed Needham" <ed@NOSPAMhomeroaster.com > wrote in message
news:E8SdndT07JMiEHDYnZ2dnUVZ_sCinZ2d@insightbb.com...
> In my experience, when the drying stage goes too long, there is not
> enough moisture left in the process to achieve the reactions necessary
> for full flavored coffee. I prefer to get to first crack fairly
> quickly (about 14 minutes in my drum with a 5 pound load) and then
> hold the roaster temp at no greater than 470F (your measurements will
> likely vary due to probe placement) and stop just as second crack is
> beginning. This allows optimization of caramelization without
> destroying the sugars by carbonization.
>
> Using the analogy of making a sugar syrup on the stove, you start with
> water and sugar. If you heat the mixture until most of the water has
> evaporated (a long drying stage as you suggest), then you don't have
> enough moisture to allow the full process of caramelization to occur
> and you'll likely get a burnt mess of carbonized sugars. Too much
> moisture and caramelization does not take place.
>
> A little bit of carbonized sugar will add roasty flavor to the coffee,
> much like searing a steak or browning the cheese on a pizza makes it
> more palatable. Too much and you have an ashy, burnt flavor. Not
> good.
>
> The fine balance between stopping the roast before too much of the
> sugar has been destroyed, and too many of the fruity acids have
> evaporated or been used up in chemical processes, is key to getting
> the most sweetness and complexity from a roast.
> --
> *********************
> Ed Needham®
> "to absurdity and beyond!"
> http://www.homeroaster.com
> (include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
> *********************


Crystalized perfectly Ed! {;-)
Craig.